UK: Kettling Video (Of Police "Containing" Students) 'Appalling', Police Watchdog Panel Chair Says

[Turborama]

Source: The Guardian

Victoria Borwick encourages protesters at anti-student fees demonstration to make complaints against Metropolitan police after 'ghastly' incident

Shiv Malik | Wednesday December 22 2010 14.16 GMT

The chair of the Metropolitan Police Authority's civil liberties panel has condemned video footage appearing to show protesters being crushed by police attempting to contain them in a "kettle" during student anti-fees demonstrations in London two weeks ago as "appalling" and "ghastly".

Victoria Borwick, who is also a Conservative member of the Greater London Authority, encouraged protesters to make official complaints against the Met and said other police forces were making a better job of public order policing. "Other forces do this much better," she told the Guardian. "They are very clear with protesters and tell them beforehand what they will do… I hope people make proper complaints to the police about this."

=snip=

Footage recorded on a mobile phone by an Oxford University postgraduate student shows protesters shouting and screaming "there's no room" and "there's no space" as police try to push them back with riot shields. Someone, believed to be a protester, can be heard shouting: "You're going to fucking kill someone tonight."

Towards the end of the film, shot near Westminster underground station a few hours before protesters were kettled on Westminster bridge, http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/dec/19/police-kettle-risk-crush-hillsborough">mounted officers can be seein using their horses to push the crowd back further.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/dec/22/kettling-video-appalling-police-watchdog

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Video at the article and here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2010/dec/21/metropolitan-police-kettling-student-fees-demonstration

[Lucky 13]

1. This is outrageous. They could have killed many many many people.

But the government doesn't care. Just like they didn't care when they raised tuition by 3 times.

[dipsydoodle]

3. many many many people

who were there of there own volition in an area in which they agreed not to enter - Parliament Square.

At least they didn't use an armed response unit.

[Lucky 13]

4. So we're to be grateful that they didn't shoot anyone?

What recourse do the people have when civilized discussion, hearings, and the system gets them no where?

What would it take to get you to take to the streets? What would it take for you to say the police went too far?

[dipsydoodle]

6. Are you aware

of the geography of that area ? If the route had stuck to that agreed by the organisors the issue wouldn't have occured. Also had the police simply barricaded access to entry to the House of Parliament the crowd pushing across the Square would've crushed those at the front anyway - whose fault would that have been ?

The link also makes reference to the kettling done on Westminster Bridge which was late that night. If you'd seen that you'd be aware that was in 3 sections to prevent crushing amongst other issues.

I watched most of it throughout that day live on TV and don't agree the police went too far - I thought they were quite restrained. They didn't really retaliate until the fencing posts from the Square were used against them.

Hopefuly next time they'll give them somewhere like Hyde Park to protest with plenty of open space to do almost as they please.

[Turborama]

11. Apparently so

I notice crickets in regards to your questions, too.

[Ruperto31]

7. I've been in crowds charged by cops on horseback twice.

Once in Lafayette Park in DC and once on Boston Common. It is no picnic. The horses are trained to sidestep. It's like having a big wall moving toward you with hooves flying. All you can think of is to get out of the way.

[dipsydoodle]

9. Yes - move

and don't set off fire crackers which is what happened here.

[Turborama]

12. No fire crakers going off in the video in the OP

The police use horses as weapons, that's what they're for.

[dipsydoodle]

13. Oh so you didn't watch all of it then ?

Wheresas I did see the event

Refs here :

As I type, thousands of students are in Parliament Square, London making their final protests against tuition fee increases, ahead of this afternoon's House of Commons' vote.

The violence is also continuing and is being described as a "physical battle" between police and students: fire crackers being thrown at the police line and mounted police horses; at least one serious head injury; police horses charging; protesters charging back

The BBC has a live feed of what's happening: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11566509

We'll update this thread with the result of the vote when it's available.

http://doc2doc.bmj.com/forums/bmj_student-bmj_students-march-student-fee-protest-london-2?plckShowLatestPost=1

Further references here : http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=46463501

And as I've mentioned before in other posts - as far I'm concerned the fees should now be increased to £10000 to help cover restoration of property damage . Maybe next time the police will insist that the NUS takes out some form of insurance cover.

As to your whimsical remark about empathy : we don't all always agree here on different topics.

They lost my sympathy during the first protest.

[Turborama]

16. "Yes - move and don't set off fire crackers which is what happened here"

Towards the end of the film, shot near Westminster underground station a few hours before protesters were kettled on Westminster bridge, mounted officers can be seein using their horses to push the crowd back further.

In this specific part of the day there weren't any firecrackers being set off and the protesters could not move. The horses were being used as weapons. Did you watch the video?

Your concern for the condition of buildings and not the health and safety of citizens is interesting.

Your attitude = "fees should now be increased to £10000"

Mine:

[dipsydoodle]

19. Now I agree with you

Remove all public funding and let the rich pay. It would reduce the number of places but help ensure that only the brightest, regardless of how rich or poor they or their families may be , get the university places.

btw when I mentioned the firecrackers I was talking about the afternoon when the horses were first used and with regard to "safety of citizens" that would be in this case probably be classed as contributory negligence.

[Turborama]

21. Actually, that's not what I meant

Raise the taxes on the rich, use that "public funding" to make them pay for the mistakes of the financial "gamblers and spivs", instead of making the less well off suffer whilst the landed gentry count their ill gotten gains.

If you think that the rich are the only ones who should have higher education it appears you are seriously on the wrong site!

And as if increasing fees by 300% wasn't enough, increasing VAT from 17.5% to 20%? Jesus Hussein Christ! I know an elderly pensioner in England who is already struggling by on about 15 to 20 pounds a week for food. Even though multimillionaire Osbourne said "fair about 80 times when he announced the spending review, everyone knows he meant the exact opposite, it's called doublespeak and the Tories are masters of it.

[dipsydoodle]

22. You deliberably miss expressed what I said which was

"regardless of how rich or poor" Nice try.

The VAT issue has nothing to do with this. That will aside form other issues help offset Labour's malicious overspending. You may also like to view the rates thoughout the EU : http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/resources/documents/taxation/vat/how_vat_works/rates/vat_rates_en.pdf

Since you feel so strongly about these issues do you seriously believe that when Labour return to power they will reverse the student fee increase and the rate of VAT. If so then dream on.

btw - there is no vat on fresh food.

[Turborama]

23. I was clarifying what I meant in post #16

With regards to me deliberately doing anything, I deliberately used the qualifier "If" at the beginning of that sentence.

The VAT issue has a lot to do with making the less well off suffer whilst the gamblers, spivs and the landed gentry count their ill gotten gains, I'm sure you must know that. It's another part of the ConDem's "review" which is pissing everyone off.

As far as your hypothetical question about if Labour came in tomorrow would they stop the ConDem's austerity frenzy? I think there's no chance of real Progressive/Liberal political change in England for possibly a generation unless real election reform happens.

[dipsydoodle]

2. I thnk you might find

that there were "other forces" present anyway.

The comparison with Hillsborough is absurd. The Liverpool / Juventus match where I think Liverpool won 35 - 1 maybe.

[Turborama]

5. The statement from a senior doctor who was there, "absurd"?

A senior doctor has warned that police risk repeating a Hillsborough-type tragedy if they continue with tactics deployed during the recent tuition fee protests.

The anaesthetist from Aberdeen Royal Infirmary, who gave medical assistance to the protesters, said that officers forced demonstrators into such a tight "kettle" on Westminster Bridge that they were in danger of being seriously crushed or pushed into the freezing River Thames.

The 34-year-old doctor, who set up a field hospital in Parliament Square, said that people on the bridge suffered respiratory problems, chest pains and the symptoms of severe crushing.

"Police had us so closely packed, I couldn't move my feet or hands an inch. We were in that situation like that for hours. People in the middle were having real difficulty breathing. It was the most disturbing thing I've ever seen – it must have been what Hillsborough was like. The crush was just so great. Repeatedly I tried to speak to officers, telling them that I was a doctor and that this was a serious health and safety risk," said the doctor, who did not want to be named.

More: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/dec/19/police-kettle-risk-crush-hillsborough

Your lack of empathy is astonishing.

[dipsydoodle]

8. If you'd seen the kettling on the bridge

I don't think you'd agree with the statement made and if you've ever walked over the bridge you'd understand that anyone being forced over the side is implausible. It wasn't a tight kettle - it was divided into three.

Aside from that Hillsborough has got banked terraces - its a football ground. Hence the absurdity of the remark.

I can only suggest you remain astonished.

[Turborama]

10. I watched it all and a view from a helicopter is nothing like witnessing it 1st hand

I have lived in London and crossed that bridge many times, nothing implausable at all about people being crushed so much they might be forced to go over the side...





Re your misinterpretation of what she said about the Hillsborough disaster, she was referring to the crushing that people must have suffered there, not the topography.

Those who lack empathy aren't Liberals. It's one of our core values.

[defendandprotect]

17. Wow ... thanks for the futher explanations because unless you've suffered this it is

difficult to understand -- you almost need an aerial view of it --

Anyone saying this isn't dangerous -- or it is deserved -- is not only lacking

in empathy, but in understanding of citizens' rights to free assembly and the

current threats to that from authorities.

Thanks for the comments by the doctor -- very frightening, indeed.

You can see it wouldn't have taken much more to kill thousands of young people!

[CrawlingChaos]

14. K&R - horrifying

Sad that anyone would defend this jackboot brutality.

[StarsInHerHair]

15. U know we need to find a technique to break the cops moves, just to save

lives because it looks like they're readily willing to kill people and I don't doubt for a moment they'd do the same here.

[defendandprotect]

18. Police don't decide to do this on their own... criminal government does ....

but sadly police follow without question --

Obviously, any thought of conscience or responsibility to taxpayers who pay

their salaries -- or to the right to free assembly -- is taught to be ignored!

[StarsInHerHair]

25. yes, but has anyone tried to talk to the cops at these things and remind

them that the cops should be on their side? That the cops' paychecks do come from the protesters? I'd sure as hell try to pilfer their ranks and get them to join the demonstrators.

[Cutatious]

20. What they are calling "cuts" we would call a good deal in America

I really can't understand all the fuss about charging a little more for a wonderful education. If we had a deal like that here it would make it a lot cheaper and easier to go to school full time.

Some people just don't appreciate what they have. I would have loved to been able to go to school for 4+ years and not have to work the whole time to survive and pay for it. And the payoff method they have is very progressive compared to the fast track repayment here.

[Turborama]

24. The tuition fees are being tripled to £9,000 a year and students do have to work in Britain...

...to help fund their studies.

BTW degrees in England are 3 years. That's £27,000 debt, plus the loans and overdrafts they have to pay back if their part time work didn't cover the cost of living and studying. That can potentially add up to a total debt of nearly £50,000 on entering the workforce and before trying to get a deposit together to buy a house. The cost of living in Britain is one of the highest in the world, too.