APNewsBreak: Obama seeks debt collector proposal

[Omaha Steve]

Source: AP-Excite

By DAVID ESPO

WASHINGTON (AP) - To the dismay of consumer groups and the discomfort of Democrats, President Barack Obama wants Congress to make it easier for private debt collectors to call the cellphones of consumers delinquent on student loans and other billions owed the federal government.

The change "is expected to provide substantial increases in collections, particularly as an increasing share of households no longer have landlines and rely instead on cellphones," the administration wrote recently. The little-noticed recommendation would apply only to cases in which money is owed the government, and is tucked into the mammoth $3 trillion deficit-reduction plan the president submitted to Congress.

Despite the claim, the administration has not yet developed an estimate of how much the government would collect, and critics reject the logic behind the recommendation.

"Enabling robo-calls (to cellphones) is just going to lead to more harassment and abuse, and it's not going to help the government collect more money," said Lauren Saunders of the Boston-based National Consumer Law Center. "People aren't paying their student loans because they can't find a job."


Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20111004/D9Q5E32O0.html

---

In this Sept. 28, 2011, file photo, President Barack Obama speaks at Benjamin Banneker Academic High School in Washington. Obama wants Congress to make it easier for private debt collectors to call cell phones belonging to consumers who are delinquent on student loans and other billions owed the government. (AP Photo/Susan Walsh)

[midnight]

1. Really... Hopefully this has as much success as the HAMP program...

[Name removed]

224. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Citizen Worker]

285. I guess "looking forward not backward" only applies to banksters but not the working class. So much

for the hollow platitude we call the "rule of law."

[fasttense]

346. You know this is aimed at those protesters on Wall Street.

Those college kids and graduates who have their stories up on their website. If you read them, a lot of them have student loans. Student loans they can't pay back because they can't find those invisible jobs. Some of the protesters who posted their stories ended up with degrees and lots and lots of debt, some just ended up with debt.

But now they are sitting around bothering the truly rich on Wall Street. A lot of those stories make it clear they have no homes, no place to live. And if you don't have a house or an apartment to live in, you DON'T HAVE A LAND LINE.

So now the debt collectors need help to reach and harass those people who dare bother the truly wealthy on Wall Street. The banksters with the help of Obama and the rest of the federal government need help reaching those people sitting around bothering the American Oligarchy. If the debt collectors would go to where the debtors are staying, well they might just join in because we all know the banksters have to hire someone to get their stolen loot. You can't expect the truely wealthy to go down among the filthy masses. So, they send their debt collectors and some of those people collecting for the banksters and the federal government might just join in.

So we all know how connected to the internet Occupy Wall Street is. We all know they are staying in touch. What better way to reach those protesters then through their cell phones.

If the Obama administration implements this, then they could clear out Occupy Wall Street in no time or at least make all those protesters get new phones.

[rsmith6621]

2. Obama Is Back To Sounding......

.......Like a Republican.

[Ganja Ninja]

4. He is what he is.

Anyone that thinks he'll be a different president during his second term is deluding themselves. If anything once he no longer needs votes from the liberal base he'll be even less constrained.

[elocs]

11. Yes, and no matter what rhetoric & promises we hear during the campaign,

if Obama wins a second term he will be exactly as he has been.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating, not in the promise of how good it will be when and if it is ever made.

[RKP5637]

27. He tells people what they want to hear, and then does as he damn well pleases. He's

an excellent orator to get their vote, and then it stops. I've been very disappointed in Obama and I don't give a damn anymore how much I get slammed on DU for saying that.

[defendandprotect]

46. Actually, he does what pleases corporatists -- sadly -- !!!

[RKP5637]

54. Yep! And we get forced to vote for corporatism or the crazies. n/t

[defendandprotect]

60. Well, that's Koch Bros./DLC Rahm Emmanuel's take on it -- "nowhere else to go" .....

but liberals are a huge voting bloc -- this is a liberal nation --

proven by the immense lengths that RW have to go to in order to keep hold of

power --

and their first moves always begin with political violence --

and we've had more than 50 years of out in the open RW politicial violence here --

Not to mention stolen elections --

and a Goebbels' style corporate-press --


My conscience isn't going to allow me to vote for Obama -- but everyone has to

make up their own minds. I just won't vote for someone who has betrayed the nation

and suffering citizens as he has.


IMO, we need to push for challengers to Obama -- in fact, I think he should have been

under RECALL immediately after he picked his Wall St./Bankers team -- !!


Sen. Bernie Sanders could run on a Dem ticket -- a split ticket, perhaps -- ?

But Alan Grayson would also make a good candidate -- I think!



Here's what we have to think about re Citizens United --

It's not simply about corporations waving money at candidates to BUY our government --

It's also about dishonest candidates and elected members of Congress SELLING themselves

to these corporations and SELLING OUT our people's govenrment --


There are TWO sides to that coin of corruption -- and we have to pay attention to BOTH sides!!




:hi:

[RKP5637]

67. What is needed is a rally point, a focal point. Right now it's diffused. People are

unhappy with Obama, but we have no focal point. I like both Sen. Bernie Sanders and Alan Grayson, for example. The real problem I have with Obama is he's branded as a democrat, but in reality, IMO, functions as a pure corporatist, and is part of the problem this county has IMO.

He has so much political machinery in operation, I think it's hard for the others to be heard because of the MSM propaganda in this country.

Somehow, I keep hoping someone rises above the fray and is heard. In today's highly manipulated informational age, and the discussions of messages across so many informational avenues, I wonder how that focal point is achieved...

[defendandprotect]

76. We have to be asking politicians every day ... WHO ARE YOU SELLING YOURSELF TO??

because there are two sides to that corruption coin --

First is corporatiosn BUYING our people's government --

Second is dishonest candidates and elected officials SELLING THEMSELVES and

OUR GOVERNMENT to elites/corporations --


This could all be stopped immediately if Obama/Dems stood up and said ...

"We will no longer take corporate money!" --


Meanwhile -- this corporate money is a threat to any challenger because it has

the capability -- along with our Goebbels' style press -- to not only defeat them

unheard -- but to make them look like idiots.


But I do think that a "white hat" like Sen. Bernie Sanders could run and win by

"word of mouth" pretty much!

And I think he could run on a Dem ticket -- maybe a split ticket?


I'd certainly vote for him!

[RKP5637]

83. I would certainly vote for Sen. Bernie Sanders. He makes the most sense of

ANY of the politicians today. And I trust him!

[No Elephants]

119. He has no desire to become a Democrat and he has no intention of running.

He has said both things a number of times.

[RKP5637]

127. Yep, I know. n/t

[defendandprotect]

151. We have to keep trying -- whether Sanders or Grayson or other liberals ... !!

[Enthusiast]

198. I wouldn't wish that on Bernie.

I love him too much.

[defendandprotect]

300. Know what you mean -- but he's a man of conscience -- and we need him -- !!!

PLUS he's enough of a "white hat" where you could almost have a moneyless

"word of mouth" campaign --

Who wouldn't vote for Bernie Sanders -- and let's hope he could run on Dem ticket --

or even a split ticket -- didn't they used to do those kinds of things?

[Plucketeer]

226. I agree with everything you and RKP are saying

While I know it's not practical (only because of the god damned money involved!), I'd sure like to see a challenger in the Dem's corner.

What I think the REAL hope is is that these folks on Wall St. & Main Streets will be the cause, or at least the catalyst for REAL and effectual changes. I think Thomas Jefferson is smiling at what's going on here. Even if it's happening in a world he couldn't have envisioned in his time, the underlying principles are one's he could relate to and embrace.
Obama's BS about Hope and Change has been shown for what it really is. His record in office has shown him to be just another corporate sellout. My/Our REAL hope is with these demonstators. If they can't blaze a path to a new destination, we're truly screwed.

[defendandprotect]

301. Imo, it's messages like yours that would keep the protesters going ....

Nice post --

So many at Occupy Wall Street have show tremendous courage and determination and

understanding of what's really going on in this country.

I hope it continues to grow and that the country becomes even more supportive.



:hi:

[truth2power]

87. Conscience. Said it before, here. If it comes down to it, I have to

follow my conscience.

[jwirr]

113. The only way that we can vote our conscience in this is if we are

willing to let the rethugs take over the WH and the SCOTUS. My conscience says I cannot do that. I do not think we have time to change the situation now. I love Senator Saunders and Alan Grayson. I would vote for them in a heartbeat but they have not indicated that they would run against President Obama. We should have done this 6 months ago.

The one thing we can and should do is work extremely hard to get a truly progressive House and Senate in so that they can stop him when he is out of line. He can veto what they want but he cannot propose bills that they do not want.

I have been a Democrat my entire life and I have never seen my party leaders so against their own people. This is insane.

The day after the election is over I hope that some progressive steps up to start a third party and that we work on it the next 4 years. A party with real progressive candidates.

Please people - do not let the rethugs control this world anymore than they do already - for some of us it is a life or death issue.

[Name removed]

123. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

138. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[defendandprotect]

143. And why don't we have UNIVERSAL health care -- MEDICARE FOR ALL... ???

Is there really any way you can avoid seeing that Obama sold you out to Big Pharma

and the Private H/C Industry? Obama made back room deals to 'PRESERVE THE PRIVATE

H/C INDUSTRY" -- and then Koch Bros. DLC Rahm Emmanuel crowed about it!!


Why shouldn't your daughter have the full protection of MEDICARE FOR ALL?

Why shouldn't ALL of our citizens have the full protection of MEDICARE FOR ALL?

It's not just your daughter -- it is 50 million Americans without health care --

they all count!!

And another 25 millions without jobs ---

And how many millions of Americans who are homeless -- ???


Sadly, Obama is working for the same corporations who are running the GOP --

We had quite a number of shocks from Obama -- I don't intend to let him destroy

any more of the New Deal on a vote by me!

[jwirr]

147. Her health care is just fine the way it is. Others need universal health

care but she is not one of them. If and when we get that through she will be part of it. What she needs now is to make sure that NO ONE is allowed to cut any of what she does have. I will come out fighting tooth and nail if the super committee dares to cut into her care. And I did fight for a decent HCR including a public option. Here in MN we have Minnesota Care which is a type of public option although it is not universal because it is means tested.

[defendandprotect]

155. Why wouldn't your daughter benefit as we all would from MEDICARE FOR ALL?

And what possible assurance do you have that Obama or the Super Congress he's

helped put in place -- or the Courts -- won't destroy what health care she has now?


I can't imagine how difficult it would be to be in this position -- but most Americans

do have health care problems these days in covering the costs -- and in fighting notions

of "pre-conditions" -- and 50 million without any health care!


However, that fear can't include ignoring why we don't have MEDICARE FOR ALL!

Obama had a mandate from the public to move to MEDICARE FOR ALL.

74% of the public -- 83% of Catholics -- wanted government-run healthcare!


Obama worked solely to "preserve the private health care system" and he betrayed the

will of the people!

[jwirr]

172. I said she would be part of it but there is no such thing. She needs

what she has now until we can get something equally as good or better. When we are dealing with death it cannot be put off until there is a better option so I vote to keep her alive and work to get something better going for everyone.

[defendandprotect]

176. So you're saying that MEDICARE FOR ALL would work better -- but we don't have it --

but you'd still prefer to ignore why we don't have it --

hmmm....

Again -- you don't have it because Obama made back room deals with Big Pharma

and the private H/C industry to 'PRESERVE THE PRIVATE HEALTH CARE INDUSTRY' -- !!


If you want quotes from Koch Bros./DLC Rahm Emmanuel on that telling business why they

should be so grateful to Obama, I'll be happy to link you to it --

[The Doctor.]

294. Cluelessness.

These threads are absolutely rife with it. Add to that the way these unthinking knee-jerk anti-Obama screeds play right into the hands of the corporations everyone says they oppose and you have a recipe for mirthless amusement.

Posts like yours are proof that many 'liberals' don't have a clue what's what. I've explained it before, but I'm beginning to think the Obama-haters are reason-proof.

[No Elephants]

163. I would NEVER sit out an election. NEVER.

I am with you on that!

[Melinda]

139. Gads, I love your passion and views! :-)

Imagine if all the hand wringers and teeth gnashers got busy working on electing a Democratic Congress in 2012 instead of compromising their principles to re-elect a DINO?

We've had Republicans & quasi-Republicans in the WH now since 1980 and its long past time for the shit to hit the fan. People are in the streets now... imagine what another 5 years will bring. And either way the WH goes, the next 5 years WILL be effecting change. History bears this out.

Or, as my Union member, U.S. History and other Social Studies H.S. teacher son says, "What this country needs is a revolution!"

Anyway, just wanted to tell you how much I enjoy reading 'you', d&p!!!
:hug:

Melinda

[defendandprotect]

149. Likewise -- :)

and, thank you!


I can't say that people like that father and his ill daughter aren't threatened by

the RW, certainly we all are -- and very seriously so.

But you can't be so frightened that you have to kid yourself about what's been going on.



:hi:

[MedicalAdmin]

244. This country will not have a revolution.

And if they do it will go nowhere. A few drone strikes, a lot of arrests by mercenaries to fill the private prisons and lots of black bag middle of the night arrests by the federal authorities to cut the head off of any leadership and it will be all over except for the demonization by the press.

The USA is over. Stick a fork in it and tell your son to get out while he can for your current or future grandkids sake.

I am in a cynical mood today.

[defendandprotect]

296. Basically, the MIC and TORTURE are what keeps dictatorships in place ....

But don't worry -- citizens have the right to "bear arms" -- !!!


:evilgrin:

[No Elephants]

144. We may elect folks with a (D) after their names, but the odds against electing liberals are

almost insurmountable.

No one supports liberals, not the DNC (and its treasure chest) or any of the Democrats who can attract a crowd.



Look at Lamont v. Lieberman.

Everyone supported Lieberman and attacked Lamont in the primary. And, after Connecticut Democrats has spoken in the primary and chosen Lamont, everyone left a Lamont they had damaged in the primary to twist in the wind alone.

And Lamont wasn't even that much more liberal than Lieberman.

However, I think he was enough of a Democrat that he would not have campaigned for McCain two years later, as did Lieberman.


And, I am starting to suspect worse than "mere" non support.

[emcguffie]

252. Excuse me for being distracted from your message, which I agree with.

I think.

I had a really hard time reading it. Dash abuse, I think. This piece of punctuation "," is a comma. It is a very useful piece of punctuation. When you use it as it is intended to be used, it makes your writing easier for the reader to understand. It isn't really a contest to see who gets it right. So this isn't about right and wrong. It does make writing much easier to understand. Try reading what you've written, but as if you don't already know what you meant.

(I expect to get yelled at for being so nitpicking!)

When you do not use punctuation as it is supposed to be used, it really detracts from the impact of your writing. The content of your writing, to me, has value. If you would learn to punctuate, it wouldn't upset me to try to read it.

There's probably at least a few other readers out there who will react the same way.

Edit to add:

Periods are pretty useful too.

[defendandprotect]

297. And, you are presuming that ....

I'm unfamiliar with punctuation --- ????

Treat the ---'s as a STOP --

On the other hand, you can also pass by my posts --

But, I certainly do admire your punctuation in your post --


:evilgrin:

[wysimdnwyg]

85. +1 (nt)

[No Elephants]

116. Being slammed is one thing; being banned is another.

Once the Republican nominee becomes obvious, enforcement of the no criticism of
Democrats rule will become more rigorous.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=437x4549

I'm not sure everyone realizes that.

[SixthSense]

158. does that still hold

if the Democratic nomination is still up in the air?

With this proposal it appears Obama wishes to forfeit a chance for a second term. Without the youth vote he's toast and there's not much he could propose that would be a bigger middle finger to the young people in this country than this proposal.

[No Elephants]

201. The link I gave addresses that point.

[The Doctor.]

295. This must seem easy for you.

This will hardly cause his reelection more than a hiccup.

[defendandprotect]

298. Obama wouldn't be going down alone ....

he will have done substantial damage to the Dem Party --

as we saw in 2010 --

and then followed by his putting Social Security/Medicare/Medicaid "on the table" --

makes outlook for 2012 even worse --

Obama is at minus 40% in the polls --

A clear call for a primary -- or having him step down --

[defendandprotect]

309. Is the message brief enough to repeat --- I have that poster on IGNORE ...

which is odd, because I thought it would have been a msg from the administrators????

Also -- who is the Republican nominee? Didn't know they had decided on one yet?

[The Wielding Truth]

180. "only to cases in which money is owed the government"

[No Elephants]

205. Do you imagine it will stay that way?

[Vanje]

204. I wont slam you

for telling it true.

[lbrtbell]

338. He's a lousy orator, too

"Um....uh....um...uh..." aren't the utterances of a good orator.

[RKP5637]

345. He had gotten a little better at not doing that, I know just after he was elected it

drove me up the wall.

[Pab Sungenis]

30. Sadly

we don't really have an alternative.

[Fuddnik]

48. Yes we do.

The streets!

http://october2011.org/welcome

[Pab Sungenis]

57. I meant at the ballot box.

The current crop of likely Republican candidates are far worse than Obama.

[defendandprotect]

66. Decades of voting for the "lesser evil" have only moved party and Congress to the RIGHT ... !!!

That's all that "lesser evil" voting does -- !!!

Vote your conscience -- vote for principles --

IMO, Bernie Sanders should be able to run on a Dem ticket --

or at least a split ticket --

And he's someone we can implicitly trust -- I think!


:hi:

[tomg]

169. And that is why when I was just

asked to support the dems financially, I sent my money - it wasn't much but it was what I could afford - to one of the groups with Occupy Wall Street. Now when I get a call or an ask from the dems, I have decided to send money ( when I can afford it which isn't as often as I wish) to other groups on the left. ACLU, Fellowship of Reconciliation and War Resisters League, Peace and Justice. If they are on the left, I am with them.

I don't have much money and I probably have a loud mouth but I want to put my money where my mouth is. I will give money to my Rep ( he's is a true progressive - Mo Hinchey) and other real progressives, but beyond that, I am a leftist. As far as corporatists go - fuck em. I am 62 years old and the DLC for the last 20 years has pulled the same bullshit. Support us the other guys are worse. I am not buying it any more. Thanks for bringing it up.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

216. Yup.

Sadly, there are times in the life of this nation when the streets are the only thing that works.

[elocs]

59. True. The next president will either be Obama or the Republican candidate. That's it. n/t

[defendandprotect]

78. Only if we surrender again to the "lesser evil" or should we say "known evils" ... !!!

No reason why Sen. Bernie Sanders couldn't run on a Dem ticket --

maybe a split ticket -- or Alan Grayson -- ?



What we do know is that after 30 years and more of voting for the "lesser evil"

the only thing that has happened is that both parties and Congress have been

moved to the RIGHT!!

[Divernan]

108. I note you cannot even attempt to defend O on this issue.

If the next president is a Republican, at least the tattered remnants of the Democratic party, left behind by corporatist Obama, can struggle to their feet and start fighting for Democratic principles and programs again. I'd rather see us start fighting back in 2012 than in 2016.

[elocs]

114. I state a simple reality: the next president will either be Obama or the Republican candidate.

One or the other.

[Divernan]

118. Got it! Don't discuss substantive issues- just shut up and vote for him.

[unionworks]

245. and if Obama

...keeps pulling crap like this, it looks like half the posters on D.U. will be getting kicked off.

[elocs]

290. No, just brush up on your reading comprehension. It needs work. n/t

[defendandprotect]

130. Doesn't have to be that way --- We need two strong challengers to Obama ....

Two challengers who are anti-war --

Two challengers who are strongly for universal health care --


BOTH of those issues would substantially help to put America back on her

feet -- the wars are bankrupting the nation -- financially and morally!


And, with 50 million Americans without health care, the suffering of citizens

is immense --

Obama showed he didn't care as he made back room deals with Big Pharma and

the private H/C industry -- and while Koch Bros./DLC Rahm Emmanuel CROWED

about how business should be grateful to Obama for all he did for them --

especially for 'PRESERVING THE PRIVATE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM' -- !!!

Did anyone think that had happened by accident -- or that Obama was working for

the general welfare???


Would be frightened to think what anouther Obama term would bring -- !!

And what of the Dem Party after all of these pro-corporate decisions -- ???

What's left of it?

[elocs]

292. Reality check: it WILL be that way. Any examples of a party dumping a standing president

and then winning the election? Yeah, I thought so.

Like it or not, at this time Obama is a financial juggernaught who will easily win renomination because there is no one to stand against him who has a prayer of winning.

[defendandprotect]

303. Obma could also step down ---

But, we need a couple of strong challengers ---

especially strongly anti-war --

and especially supportive of MEDICARE FOR ALL --

Two items our nation and citizens desperately need --


Have to agree with you -- Obama is the corporate candidate --

isn't that what everyone has been point out???

[No Elephants]

314. Few things.

Parties have not "dumped" sitting Presidents that often, so anyone who tries to look it up will find a very small sample, which proves nothing.

Sitting Presidents who are challenged seriously have been Presidents who were unpopular within their own Party as well as as with the other Party. It is just as logical to assume people voted for change as to assume that the "dumping" caused loss of the general.

Making a valid causal connection between the "dumping" and the loss of the election is impossible, even with quasi-science. Those who do so may as well be practicing voodoo.

Times change. What ARGUABLY happened a few times in the past is not necessarily a predictor of what happens today.

[RKP5637]

25. Yeah, that's what we've been thinking. He will no longer need any of us for

anything. I have some friends absolutely refusing to vote for him and they are strong democrats and are not flakes. They say it goes against their democratic principles to vote for him because he is not a true democrat. It's awhile 'till the election. Things will change for sure. I feel boxed in because if a primary were today, he would not get my vote, and I know a lot of people the same as me in this regard.

[defendandprotect]

47. We have to make sure that the huge liberal vote moves together ... !!

Some liberals going one way -- some another -- isn't going to work.

[No Elephants]

131. I agree unity is best, but I disagree that ONLY unity will work.

[No Elephants]

126. Many of my friends and relatives are too disgusted to vote at all. I try hard to cut

against that.

Others are voting third party, knowing that a third party candidate will not win. However, they feel they have to send a message, no matter what.

It's a tough time for Democrats, all right. And, I think it will get still tougher as these philosophies take stronger and strong hold of the Democratic Party and morph it into GOP 2.

Since Clinton, most Democrats seem to think this is THE way to go.

www.dlc.org

http://progressivepolicy.org/

http://thirdway.org/

http://nolabels.org/

Note: No Labels characterizes itself as a citi.zens' movement, and a grass roots movement, but check its wiki. Professionals in the political industry started it--and who the hell knows who funded and started THEM going.

[RKP5637]

150. There is so much information anymore and obfuscation it's really getting

hard to tell who is who, how they are funded and what they really represent. I'm concerned we're going to have a really splintered democratic party as 2012 approaches. Yeah, I feel like I'm in GOP 2.

I have a really tough time supporting people just because they label themselves as democrats. And, there are so many mega-bucks involved anymore. More and more I feel like I'm becoming an observer of a really bizarre political system in this country.

I get concerned the whole thing might be co-opted by some organization while thinking it's something else.

[No Elephants]

194. Well, considering Koch donated to the DLC while professing to be

a Libertarian and also while cooking up the Tea Party, I see your problem in trying to sort things out.

Seems to me the DLC spawned a number of organizations, all of which are geared to making Democrats act more like Republicans, the most recent being No Labels.

I think No Labels is the worst of them, but it's a matter of small degrees of difference.

The ultimate goal seems to be a system in which the two major Parties are barely distinguishable from each other, if at all, with the right being favored much more than the left.

So, cooking up the Tea Party while donating to the DLC was a win-win for Koch. As best I can tell, both were designed to swing America to the right and to eliminate all but the name of the Democratic Party in the process.

[defendandprotect]

305. +1000% ---

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

77. It looks more like a pre-emptive strike...

... to me. Now President Obama can say, "See? I offered to get tough on delinquent loan holders, but the GOP was against it". You can't take everything at immediate face value, give it a bit of thought first. The Obama administration has already done student loan holders a big favor by getting the private banks out of the program, and saving the loan holders mucho moola in interest rates, on existing and future student loans.

Also, I see it as being the opposite of him ditching his base in a second term. I see him setting the GOP up for a fall (latest poll has approval of Congress at 11%) and getting a democratic majority or at least a greatly neutered GOP in the House, while hopefully getting rid of some of the most odious GOP in the Senate.

[defendandprotect]

79. THIRD WAY is for "ignoring the base" -- they're running the party ... !!

and "up" isn't "down" -- no matter how many times someone wants to suggest it is !!!


:eyes:

[defendandprotect]

80. ROFL --

[liberation]

98. Chess!

It's so 2009...

[defendandprotect]

111. Funny --- +1 ---

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

121. I was going to mention that...

... but I didn't want to appear to be too obtuse. I do not think anything will actually happen in this cellphone arena; it is just a bargaining chip to hold.

[Angry Dragon]

185. If what you say is true then I am getting real sick of it

Enough with the fucking games
This is not high school this is real life
and people die with these games

Let's see what kind of man he is and just state the truth

[defendandprotect]

306. +1 -- K/R

[jwirr]

95. That of course is a possibility but if the other side wins it is more than

a possibility. When he is no longer president I hope he writes a book explaining why he abandoned us on so many issues. We at least deserve an explanation.

[defendandprotect]

115. When you vote for the ....

"lesser evil" what you are doing -- and what voters have been doing for decades --

is simply moving BOTH parties and Congress to the RIGHT !!!


Is there any way you can look back and see anything different having happened?

Then . . . why do it again?


Obama abandoned you because elites/corporate wealth represents a POWER which is

now greater than the power the voters can wield because, in fact, the voters have

no leverage over Obama or Dem Party members. ONLY CORPORATIONS HAVE LEVERAGE

OVER THEM! In other words, it's better for him personally to serve that power than

to serve the needs of the American public.

And very sad to say that -- !!

[defendandprotect]

136. misplaced --

[The Wielding Truth]

191. You feel abandoned over the government contacting those who owe money to the government?

And this is added to a bill that will gather more money from big business. Huh...while we are being overwhelmed by big corruption and corporate takeover..

[MedicalAdmin]

247. Don't hold your fucking breath. n/t

[No Elephants]

315. Books will no doubt be written, but, IMO, the answer is "Because he could."

[Enthusiast]

196. I fear you are correct.

There has been far too much theater during the President's first term to suit me. The Republicans were going to cut off jobless benefits so we 'had' to extend the Bush tax cuts. And bullshit like that with the made-up debt crisis.

If the Republican rank and file recognized what they have in Obama he would win reelection in a landslide. Their problem is they believe their own propaganda.

[No Elephants]

316. The Republicans were ALLEGEDLY going to fail to extend

unemployment benefits.


I very much doubt they would have. Each and every voter has either been laid off or has a relative, neighbor or friend who has been laid off.

They are greedy, but not suicidal.

When you appoint a Republican Secretary of Treasury and an economic team made up exclusively of DLC types or worse, they are going to tell you that you NEVER raise taxes on ANYone during a recession--and we were in a severe recession.

And, if you were going to scoff at their advice, you would have appointed different economic experts to begin with.

Supposedly, we traded extending tax cuts on the rich for one single extension of unemployment benefits.

In reality, I think that was a face saving statement for both sides, assuming their respective bases bought it.

[emilyg]

202. Bingo.

[cyberpj]

284. "If anything once he no longer needs votes from the liberal base he'll be even less constrained."

Agreed.

Which is why it's so sickening to watch him get out there again and try to sound like the angry citizen who's going to do something about it if we would just elect him.

Fool me once.......

But I guess "YES WE CAN" didn't really mean 'yes we WILL'.

[defendandprotect]

50. THIRD WAY message -- "Ignore the base" -- !!! They're holding firm and letting us know it --!!

[The Wielding Truth]

177. "only to cases in which money is owed the government" Could this be used against

corporations trying to hide from unpaid taxes?

[pam4water]

184. +1

[Chan790]

3. Oh geez...another measure of the Obama tango.

We get three things that might be progressive, followed by a couple of bipartisan proposals that do nothing but shuffle laterally back-and-forth and crap on the poor, a wide swing to the right, a small shuffle to the left, then three steps back to destroy any notion among rational people that he's anything but a DINO...and repeat.

Repeat repeat repeat.

[MedicalAdmin]

249. Is it just me or does that smile on their faces kinda say...

We gonna be rich, rich, rich.

[creeksneakers2]

310. This post probably won't get noticed

because it doesn't go along with the flood of people reading betrayal and conspiracy into Obama's proposal. Rather than discussing the proposal, the talk is centered on getting rid of Obama. Reason is scarce here.

I worked in student loans and I think this is a great proposal for the borrowers. There is lots of help for people who can't pay their student loans. If the borrowers are unemployed, as the consumer advocate claims, they are eligible for deferments. They last about 3 years. If deferments run out, the borrower can get a few more years on forbearance. If that runs out, the borrower can go on income based repayment and pay nothing on income up to 150% of the poverty guidelines, and only 15% of what's over that.

Many borrowers who are having a hard time paying don't know about all the help available to them. They think that if they can avoid talking to a student loan representative they can avoid paying. That's a tragedy, because the representatives are trying to help.

If the collection effort is ignored for six months, the loan goes into default and then there is no help available for the borrower. That's followed by garnished wages and seized tax returns and a drastic increase in the sum owed.

The more collectors are able to contact borrowers, the better off borrowers will be. That truth doesn't fit well with crazy notion that Obama is doing this because he wants to please Wall Street crooks. So I don't expect to change any minds.

[No Elephants]

335. The more collectors are able to call cell phones with robo

calls, the more the borrower has to pay for his or her phone bills.

There is no guaranty that a robo call will do more than activate a recording directing the borrower to call the collection agency. And maybe the recording will be so crackly that the debtor can't even catch the phone number if he or she wanted to.

"The more collectors are able to contact borrowers, the better off borrowers will be. That truth doesn't fit well with crazy notion that Obama is doing this because he wants to please Wall Street crooks."

Well, fr the above reason, it's not necessarily so that the borrowers will be better off if robo calls are allowed, so your opinion on that is not necessarily "truth," only your assumption/slash opinion. It's always good to know the different between those things.

And I have not seen a post saying specificially that Obama is doing this to please Wall Street crooks, though I have seen posts saying other things about Wall Street. Then again, maybe one post or more posts made that specific claim and I missed it because this is such a long thread.

I have seen posts pointing out that banksters and war criminals seem to get better treatment than those take student loans. Not so sure that can accurately be described as crazy, though.

[Donnachaidh]

5. Change we can believe in, right?

Oh yeah, he's turning to the left :sarcasm:

:eyes:

[nc4bo]

18. Yep.

And then he and his campaign advisers wonder where the emotional/financial enthusiasm went.

[RKP5637]

28. Yeah, we're supposed to be jumping up and down for joy. His campaign advisers are

so F'en out of touch with reality.

[Donnachaidh]

88. it's the hypocritical two step he inevitably engages in that really pisses me off.

Dons his *Populist Hero* stance in the am, claiming to be a *warrior* for the working class in the am.

And in the afternoon, allows this cell phone nonsense happen (along with probably a few more things the presstitutes don't deem newsworthy).

WTF?

-This- is the only choice we have? A slight of hand artist, who talks a good game, but walks back to the country club and giggles with his elitist friends over duping the sheep again?

Sorry, but this is worse than the in your face republicans. This is carpetbaggery of the lowest form. I cannot get enthusiastic about such chicanery, and the lowdown creepiness of this sort of maneuvering.

[RKP5637]

109. It definitely is a two step. One step left, and then two steps right. We see it

over and over again. I do feel we are being used as a bunch of sheep, and he's silently thinking, well what are you gonna do. It is a creepy sort of maneuvering. Damn, I wish someone would stand up as a primary challenger.

[No Elephants]

135. Will not happen. Technically, there is still another week, but, as a practical matter,

a primary challenger hoping to unseat a sitting President would have begun campaigning at least informally months ago.

Democrats still sting from Kennedy's primary battle with Carter. I do not believe that is why Carter lost to Reagan, but it's almost like a superstition now.

And, while Republicans will nominate the guy who lost the primary the last time or two, Democrats don't generally like losing candidates.

So, if you have any thought of ever becoming a Democratic Presidential nominee, you would never run against an incumbent President, even if you thought he might well lose the general.

[MedicalAdmin]

250. My mom used to say...

Ignore what people say. Watch what they do. What they do is who they are.

[nc4bo]

259. No truer words were ever spoken. It really can save one alot of grief by just

watching the actions of others.

Tells ya everything you need to know!

[MedicalAdmin]

274. I really miss my mom.

Luckily she moved to Canada about 30 years ago. The level of medical care she received the last 10 years of her life was truly astounding. And no, she wasn't a medical refugee. She started and ran a publishing and printing company.

She just really, really liked it up there. Plus she was a hockey fan - seriously, she was in Edmonton in the 80's and knew Wayne Gretzky due to her charitable work.

Mom was one smart cookie and I really miss her wisdom and humanity. I think I need to go cry for a while. Sad story - I got word that she was ill and so I arranged for a flight up there to see her. About 5 minutes before I was to board the plane I got a phone call that she had passed away asking for me. I don't remember the rest of that day .... and I have regretted not trying to get an earlier flight ever since.

[nc4bo]

286. (((hugs))) to you.

:grouphug:

[MedicalAdmin]

362. Thanks. n/t

[No Elephants]

317. She loved you and would not want you to carry that with you for the rest of your life.

Please don't. Please find a way to remove that framing. Remember, it's your framing, not hers. She knew you were on your way to see her because you loved her.

If she could, she would do her very best to help you reframe in a way that you could celebrate the joy you were in her life and how grateful she was to have you for her child


Blessings and hugs

[Rhiannon12866]

337. Very well said and I completely agree.

No doubt there were countless times he made her happy, and proud. :)

I lost my mother just over two weeks ago, and am still taking it in. I was there, but I'll never know if she knew that I was... ;(

[MedicalAdmin]

364. I am so sorry.

It sucks. But it gets better... eventually.

[MedicalAdmin]

363. One of the downside to being slightly autistic is that...

... it is hard for me to stop thinking like this. I'm not obsessing about it and it hasn't ruined my life, but I do think about it and I do regret it.

Thanks for your nice thoughts.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

299. quick question

Is what people write on DU and other forums something people say, or something they do?

[Celefin]

340. Your question should be on the front page!

This is probably one of the most important questions regarding internet forums I've come across.
Seriously... when you look at the importance that 'internet grass-roots movements' have gained it makes you wonder.

[shanti]

167. actually

i don't think they're out of touch, i think it's what they want :shrug:

[RKP5637]

192. Yeah, I agree, it's part of the agenda, I'm not sure where it's taking us eventually, but

yeah, I agree now on reflection, "I think it's what they want."

[julian09]

248. Imagine requiring people paying govt back loan that was given

without middle man, how radical. Greece should be so lucky.

[Epiphany4z]

6. jeeze

I have a cell phone and I am behind on a student loan..on purpose..its a long story...but the point is the only trouble they have reaching me on my cell phone is me picking it up.

[madrchsod]

7. i have a different tone for 800 numbers and...

any number i don`t recognize i don`t answer.

[FlaGranny]

9. I don't have any

outstanding debts, but I get calls several times daily from a collection agency. Never anyone on the other end of the line the few times I've picked up. My son has an outstanding student loan and that must be what they're calling ME about. I've blocked at least 10 different phone numbers from them and no longer pick up the phone. I hope I can block numbers on my cellphone. I certainly don't have the money to pay off my son's loan. He can't now either. His wife left him for another man a few years ago and then she either left him or he left her. Now she has custody of the kids and my son is paying to run two homes. He makes good money, but not enough to run two homes and pay all the bills.

[madrchsod]

17. i get those too or they go to my in messages

they are phishing to see if you`ll answer or call back. yup they have your number and there`s not a hell of a lot you can do about it.

google the number that you see on your phone and you`ll be surprised

[avebury]

39. whocalled.us is also a good website to check phone numbers. nt

[Melinda]

132. Thanks avebury... this is a great site; very helpful!!

I'd not heard of sites like this where users can compare notes/help identify these nasty little bug callers. I get calls all the time for the person who used to have my home phone number (been mine for 4 years now and yet they still call!) and now I'm getting calls on my cell too. I don't have added features like caller i.d., so this site is going to be very handy.

I'm certain I'm not alone when I say the information you've provided is appreciated. Posts like yours are what makes DU such a great resource. :)

[DirkGently]

38. Had some outfit with India-based callers (and the wrong number) lighting up my cell for a year.

No amount of "Susie X" is not at this number, never has been, etc., seemed to penetrate their consciousness. They simply don't believe you, and continue to call for the sole purpose of harassment. Multiple calls per day. Robo-calls too, despite this article indicating that's illegal on a cell.

Debt collection callers do NOT need any encouragement or assistance of any kind.

[Divernan]

89. Yup. They got my # in error and were calling every fecking hour, 8am to 8 pm.

Went on for months!

[sarcasmo]

93. Verizon has a nice block caller feature on their home page, I use it often.

[Cherchez la Femme]

117. Moi aussi

they also chronically called my partner (our cell phones are on the same plan)

and these Indian callers were the most aggressive, foul-mouthed callers we have ever experienced

by a country mile!


Another alarming thing is, as I barely use my cell phone,

seems that within a few minutes of me making or receiving the call, THEY call; rarely or never when the phone is quiet.
It's as if they have a watch if there's a long enough duration which denotes a conversation,
upon which they act.

I assume this is illegal, if not for spying alone.


edit: Oh yes, they also call and harangue her mother and sister.

[No Elephants]

137. I had one of those, too!

[MedicalAdmin]

251. If they ask you for money the only legal answer is ...

... to ask for their name, number, address, company name, and supervisor. And then tell them that they are being reported to your state AG office as well as under the fair debt collections act.

I'm dealing with something similar and they don't have a leg to stand on in most cases.

Here's a link that might help. http://www.attorneysforconsumers.com/Florida-Fair-Debt-Collection-Practices-Act.html

[RKP5637]

8. Gee, more change you can believe in. n/t

[Imajika]

10. I don't have any debt problems...

But collectors still call my number constantly searching for someone. Some cat named Joseph from First Financial (some debt collection agency out of Nevada apparently) calls, leaves messages constantly and lies that he is following up on a check I "may" have written (I haven't written a check in years). These people are really slimy and call from a local number (presumably using Google) to pretend like they are not an out of state pest. If this company would just be honest about who they were at least once, I might actually bother to talk to them and let them know they have the wrong number.

If people borrow money, I don't have a problem with reasonable collection efforts, but as is I hate these debt collectors so much because of their disgusting tactics that I simply have no sympathy for them.

As to the story, it seems odd. I know people who have student loan problems and the collectors seem to have no problem calling their mobile phones. Perhaps this is because the government is taking over much of the student loan and industry and as of now are barred from collection calls?

[RKP5637]

12. I get these calls too. Calling for people I don't know and leaving all of these

messages. They just go to voice mail. They robo-call people sometimes looking for someone to pickup and then harass them telling them they owe money. If you pickup, then they have you as a mark, and the calls will continue and continue. It's a scam. In today's world, at least for me, I never answer any phone unless I recognize the caller, and even then I leave most calls go to voice mail. IMO if none leave a message, then it wasn't very important at all or was a scam..

[Chan790]

15. Regarding mobile phones...

many people list them as their home phone numbers because they have only the one phone...so collectors call them as the phone number of record. It's illegal for them to call you on your cell...but the legal loophole is that they don't have to cease until the number is IDed to them as a cell phone. When filling out forms...always ID your cell as a cell and not a home phone.

So...when I get those calls. I don't let them get a word in before I start talking: "Hi, this is a cell phone. You're not allowed to contact me or anybody else on this phone number; I will not verify if I'm who you are looking for but if I am, you have my email on record because as a hard-of-hearing person, I make it a point to have it notated on all of my accounts along with that I am best contacted in writing. If you call again, I will be reporting you to the FCC...I possibly look forward to your message. Goodbye."

[Imajika]

41. That's great information...

Thank you!

[Chipper Chat]

58. Hell I just scream a bunch of expletives as loud and as rapidly

as I can. They hang up pretty quick.

[RKP5637]

13. Yeah, all the students have millions laying around, Obama. All have jobs with

no difficulty. There is 0% unemployment and it's a beautiful world. These students are just partying too much spending the millions they make and you need to remind them to write a check. Yep, it's a perfect lovely world.

[a la izquierda]

22. I'm so close to personally writing him a letter.

I just got my PhD. I had to pay for my BA and MA myself. I didn't go to expensive private schools, I just had the misfortune of going to a good state school in a state (NJ) who had a governor (Whitman) who didn't give a shit about helping out higher education. Thus, I paid a fortune in in-state tuition. Then I did my MA in California. Loans for that so I could afford to rent a tiny apartment, even though I was working. Then for the PhD, I got paid a stipend UNDER the poverty line, so even though tuition was paid for by my department, my university fees were outrageous and I could barely afford bills, food, etc. Loans for that.
Anyway, I'm thinking about writing the President a letter. Yes, Mr. President, I have a job. I have a job because I mortgaged my future. What choice did I have? I'll never make 6 figures (I'm a professor), but those fucking zillionaires will pay a lower tax rate than I (currently, I lose $1400 of my monthly income to taxes and benefits---thank god I have benefits and a job-I know I'm fortunate, so please don't slam me for complaining). Republicans will scream about socialism the minute any Democrat suggests raising rich folks' taxes. My uncle joked his tax cut would pay off nearly all my loans. In one fall swoop. That's insanity.
So, Mr. President, for all of us who mortgaged our futures to get good jobs that don't pay us millions...keep screwing us.

I have to think about how to vocalize all of this.

[RKP5637]

31. It's a strange country these days. One sacrifices and advances to be a productive member

of society and then receives punishment for betting oneself and those around them.

[a la izquierda]

40. Yeah.

I better come up with that letter, quick. I don't have the luxury of someone to do that for me.

[onpatrol98]

70. I think you did pretty well...

[No Elephants]

148. I gave up writing him. Wrote at least once a week during the

health "care" "reform" kabuki year, sometimes three times. Same for my Rep and both Senators.

And the polls were saying 70% of Americans--not Democrats, Americans--wanted a public option. Didn't make a bit of difference.

[MedicalAdmin]

256. If i may help with the words.

Dear Mr. President.

Get off your knees, pull Goldman Sachs sack out of your mouth and do your fucking job.


Yours,



XXXX

[a la izquierda]

304. Works for me. THanks

;)

[truedelphi]

257. If you can compromise your priniciples

As do dozens of people with higher education, you could land a good job with say, Monsanto, and then go from state legislature to state legislature, extolling the virtues of the Famine Foods.

And you'd start out with about $ 150K and as you work your way into the lobbyist realm of employment, you could soon be making ten times that.

All you need to succeed in today's market place is a bit of evil in one's heart, and the intense desire to help out Corporate America while destroying life on the planet.

For people like you who just want to be decent hard working reporters, or professors, or general practitioners of medicine, or activist attorneys, it's going to be a long road to haul. The debt that the university system has inflicted on the latest several generations of people is so extreme it is criminal.

But hey - it's probably easier to get people to act like criminal lobbyists - if they owe a hundred K or more in student loans.

[a la izquierda]

307. Yeah and therein lies the problem.

I'm such a softie I can't even kill spiders (and I have arachnaphobia- but I just can't kill them on principle). I'm a vegan. I'm generally a really good person (except behind the wheel, when my mouth becomes that of a pirate of some sort). You see, I'm screwed. It's amazing I can dole out bad grades.

So I'll write him and tell him all this...and I'm sure he'll do absolutely nothing, but I'll feel a smidge better because I tried.
And then I'll curse my circumstances and write that blasted check, which keeps me from being a good American consumer and buying shit.

[No Elephants]

318. Not sure the jobs are there, even for those folks.

[truedelphi]

328. hey, until the Republicans can figure out who they have running

For President, there are ten big time candidates who need campaign managers - though granted those are temporary jobs.

Again, ya gotta have a little evil in your heart in order to apply.

[Zen Democrat]

14. What's new? I get call from debt collectors on my cell phone for all sorts of things ...

Looking for a family member who is behind on a student loan; Looking for people I've never heard of; One actually pestered me for awhile about a hospital bill in the name of someone I'd never heard of who used my phone number at two hospitals; I got a couple of calls from some sleazebag who wanted me to pay a gas credit card amount from the 80's -- I still have the credit card and it's current.

There's no reason for this law -- my cell gets crazy debt collector call already!

[Chan790]

16. It's illegal for them to call you on a cell currently.

All you have to do is inform them that it is a cell phone and that you will be reporting any future calls to the FCC. This proposal will only allow debt-collectors attempting to collect debts owed to the US government to call your cell phone. All other collectors will still be barred from calling your cell.

[jpljr77]

37. Wrong. It's illegal to autodial a cell number, not to call it.

Since many people give their cell numbers on credit applications, the creditors (and then the subsequent collection agencies) ARE allowed to manually dial the number under the concept of permissible purpose (since the consumer gave the number at credit origination).

This story is a couple of weeks old, btw: http://www.insidearm.com/daily/collection-laws-regulations/collection-laws-and-regulations/obama-proposal-loosens-restrictions-on-cell-phone-calls-for-debt-collection/">http://www.insidearm.com/daily/collection-laws-regulations/collection-laws-and-regulations/obama-proposal-loosens-restrictions-on-cell-phone-calls-for-debt-collection/

[winstars]

101. Going to insidearm is like going to FR, take a hot shower afterwards!!!

[No Elephants]

325. But Obama wants to make the robo calls legal. That's the point of the OP.

[nc4bo]

21. My 80 year old mom just started getting them from collectors

They had the home owner right, the address of the property correct but the big problem was she never had an account in her name, she was just the landlord.

The debt was over 15 years ago.

They called harassed her on her cell phone number, daily, 2-3 times a day.

[No Elephants]

145. So many posters on this thread alone have said something like that,

including me.

That can't be coincidence. What is going on? Are deadbeats just picking numbers out of the phone book when they take out loans? If not, what is happening?

[nc4bo]

246. I honestly don't know what's going on. I do know it reeks of desperation

and probably wouldn't be tolerated if things were the other way around and WE were the ones doing the stalking and harassing.

And bankers, hedgefund managers and other greedy sapsuckers walk away free from any of it.

Something's terribly wrong with all of it and on top of it all, we have no political champion to ease our burdens and stop the injustices.

[democrank]

19. Shocked, I tell ya....shocked!

Imagine.... a "Democratic Party" president coming up with this solution for thousands and thousands of debt-riddled college students, young kids graduating with $60,000, $80,000, $100,000 in loan debt.And, no jobs.

President Obama is one giant disappointment after another.

[RKP5637]

35. I wish we had an alternative in a primary. I'm being

forced to vote for him and it pisses me off. And I know a lot of people that feel the same.

[Ganja Ninja]

64. The only way I'll vote for him is if it looks likely the Democrats will ...

take control of both houses of congress. If it looks like Republican's will get control of both houses then I'll vote third party. I'd rather not have Obama putting a Democratic stamp on the Republican agenda.

I'm not saying I'd ever vote for him but I'd trust Mitt Romney more than Obama when it comes to controlling the far right wing of the GOP. In my opinion Obama only inflames them and makes them crazier. And when you combine that with his penchant for bending over backward to cooperate with them it makes the whole situation worse. A Republican president will have to worry about his own re-election. That's at least some motivation to control the extremists.

[RKP5637]

81. What you say makes sense to me. The thing that infuriates me with Obama is

his constant capitulation to the republicans and then slamming his base if they disagree with him. I've just never experienced such diversionary tactics within one party, that and blaming his party all of the time. He would NEVER get our vote today in a primary.

[Ganja Ninja]

90. And it's all the more frustrating when you consider the effect he has

on the extreme right. His very presence has them foaming at the mouth and he turns on us!

[RKP5637]

96. It's almost like someone coming home and beating the kids, because they had a bad day at work. n/t

[Cherchez la Femme]

186. An old poem/song:

"At work I'm a loser
I do everything wrong;
but I got six kids at home
who think I'm King King.
Oh I'll get my kicks,
with a sawed-off cue stick;
and you'll use an iron stove-lid;
we'll get out those switches,
and pull down their britches,
and whup really good on the kids." Yee-haw!

[Cherchez la Femme]

125. He actually thinks he can please them while alienating his own base

it's positively delusional :crazy:

[No Elephants]

161. I don't see events that way.

Obama's political proposals and positions have had a strong correlation to things urged by organizations like the Democratic Leadership Council, the Progressive Policy Institute, Third Way and No Labels.

I think he believes in what he is doing, not capitulating very much AT ALL.

I think, until lately, he believed all the more experienced politicians, pundits and strategists, who say "The Left has nowhere else to go," ESPECIALLY when they see the Left ready to go elsewhere.

IOW, I think they say it without believing it.

I think, in formal campaign mode, it is dawning on him that the Left can indeed stay home or vote third Party, if the Left is disgusted enough.

And that is why we see him doing certain things now that he has not done before.

But, again, I have never seen him as capitulating.

One poster's take on events.

[No Elephants]

195. Please remember, the true home of kabuki theater is not Japan, but D.C.

[Cherchez la Femme]

120. Either he doesn't want to get reelected or he is complacent enough

that he will.

What's that saying about the word 'Assume'?

[RKP5637]

129. Yep! 'Assume' n/t

[No Elephants]

156. Assume you knew in 2007-2008 what you know now. For whom would you

have voted in the primary? Hillary, a founder of the DLC?

She helped create the kind of Democrat Obama is.

ETA: Besides, I think the outcome of the primary was decided when Harry Reid urged party bigwigs to make Obama the candidate.

[quakerboy]

171. Probably

I don't think that Hillary could have believably brought the kind of "hope and change" rhetoric. She was a straight up moderate DLC candidate. The other side would have screamed just as loudly, been just as offended by a woman and a Clinton as they were by the President, and I think in the end it would have been a much closer contest without the strong oratory and presented vision, but we would not have first filled the hopes of a generation, only to bring them crashing down in disillusionment.

She would have been a compromise, but we would have known it from the start and not had expectations otherwise.

[No Elephants]

206. By "we," I assume you mean political junkies, because most Democrats

have to this day never heard of the DLC.

They are disgusted, but also clueless as to why.

[quakerboy]

264. Not totally

You don't have to have heard of the DLC to have expectations of a Clinton. There was one before, which would set the expectations.

Again, Clinton would have excited some people more than others. At the time, I thought she would lose the general. Given what happened (mainly Palin), I think she would have won, with a much smaller margin. But noone would have expected her to be other than what she is. They would not have had the expectations of what would happen when a community organizer took over the Whitehouse, there would not have been a "we are past politics, things are different now" feel to the election. Clinton is right where Obama is, but I don't think people had the illusions about it that they did with the much less "established" and therefore presumed to be less "establishment" candidate Obama.

[No Elephants]

319. I think you are way overestimating low info voters, even higher info voters.

I don't think most voters knew Bill demanded that repeal of Glass Steagall on his desk ASAP. Or even know what Glass Steagall was or how its repeal led the global economy to where it was in 2008.

I have seen posters on DU again and again defend him by saying the votes to override a veto were there anyway. Well, of course they were. The Republican majority were giving Republicans leaders what they wanted and the Democratic minority were giving Bill what he wanted.

Besides, no one can predict the actual effect of a Presidential veto on Congressional votes unless and until it actually happens.

I don't if many voters know how Bill and his administration crowed over "ending welfare as we know it."

I don't know if many voters know about NAFTA and how it hurt Americans.

And so on.

What they remember about Bill, if anything, is Lewinksy, first and foremost, and maybe what has been drummed into them, namely, the economy was good.

They don't realize that the effects of policies signed into law under him ultimately landed us in the worst financial mess since the "Great" Depression.

From where I sit, they would not have known what to expect from Bill Clinton, let alone Hillary. You obviously have a different opinion.

[quakerboy]

323. I think we are on slightly different wave lengths

Not as far off as you might think. I agree with all your individual points. The American populace, even those paying the most attention, are often missing many details. There is so damn much to know its basically impossible. And most people don't even care to try, best as I can tell.

But as so often is the case, its not what people know, its what they think they know.

In 2008 Clinton was a known name. Not a new exciting "different". Obama was, and with that newness was able to draw in and excite new, apathetic, and youth voters, and with it take that election by storm. He was "different". Clinton would not have been. And thus those voting groups would likely not have been brought in in the same way. And therefore not disillusioned in the way that I am seeing(and even feeling, to be honest).

[No Elephants]

336. Again, I think what you say may be true of political junkies, not of

the general population.

I remember Hillary Clinton running on change, too, which made me chuckle, but which many bought into as much as I bought into Obama's slogans or more.

And the prospect of the first woman President was as exciting to many women and men as the prospect of the first African American President was to others.

[MisterP]

207. and more people would've been able to criticize her, and from the get-go

[quakerboy]

237. I dunno about that

I think the shit storm would have been pretty equivalent. Democrats could have run Jesus, the second coming, for president, and the Tea party would still be the main press event, and Faux News would still be saying just as much vile and untrue crap.

Or maybe you mean our side? Same deal applies, pretty much. There are as many misogynists as racists on our side. The number of corporate sell outs within our ranks is not dependant on the candidate our party runs, nor the number of cowards who run from any sign of controversy, nor the number of oblivious believers.

[No Elephants]

320. If you are implying that everyone who criticizes Obama or Hillary is a

racist or a misogynist, that is a pretty fucked up view, IMO.

If that is not what you are implying, my apologies.

[RKP5637]

187. Here's a question

I started donating to Bold Progressives http://boldprogressives.org/ since they seem to only support progressive dems. Is that correct from your experience. Thanks!

[No Elephants]

213. I don't know.

Much like you, I don't know whom to trust anymore.

I do know that some organizations and entities are intended to "corral" and de-fuse the Left by giving them the illusion of being represented somehow.

I don't know if boldprogressives is one of them, though, or sincere.

[Divernan]

105. I agree w/your evaluation of Romney.

I'll be voting a straight Dem. ticket but writing in a progressive Dem for President.

[No Elephants]

152. I heard something once that changed my life.

"You have a choice. You always have a choice, unless someone has a gun to your head--and, even then, you have A choice."

You may not like your choices. You may not find any of them perfect. But you are not being forced.

[TBF]

20. More hope and change ....

he never said he would change things for the better. :shrug:

[nc4bo]

24. And if we haven't figured that out by now, we'll never figure it out, ever. nt

[No Elephants]

321. I think it was implied. Most people do not "hope" for a "change" for the worse, and no

candidate runs on change for the worse.

So, the implication was there.

Just like when he berated Hillary for not bringing forward a plan to strengthen Social Security few of our minds leapt to his appointing a Cat Food Commission and, if we believe John Conyers, offering Republicans cuts to Social Security and Medicare under cover of the debt ceiling/"OMG government shutdown must be avoided" kabuki with no mention of same from Republicans.

And, I know of no reason why John Conyers would have lied abut that.

sometimes, when people and their advisors are very, very careful about what they are saying and not saying, you are entitled to feel misled and betrayed when it turns out that the impression you got may be very different from what carefully parsed campaign statements actually said.

[fascisthunter]

23. good god... he really is compromised

once again, siding with the wrong side.

[Hugin]

26. AND... The Callee gets charged to listen to the Debt Collector's harassment.

The TELECOS must lurv this idea.

[truth2power]

107. I think if you don't pick up the call you won't get charged. n/t

[Hugin]

153. If they leave a voice message, you'll get charged to listen to it. Unless News Corpse gets there...

first.

[Roland99]

29. Fucking lovely. Thanks a lot, Obama.

fuck you very much indeed.

[Harriety]

32. We all need to contact the WH immediately. They need to know how wrong this is.

[Divernan]

100. My friend, we've been contacting the WH since Obama went there. He doesn't listen

to us common folk who only have the White House main number. He listens to the people who send him big, fat, minimum-five-figure campaign donations. Of COURSE he's sucking up to the scurrilous private collection agencies - they've got bucks to donate and he's hot to collect a record one billion dollar campaign fund.

[julian09]

225. Did these borrowers ever have intention of paying back loan?

A good way to avoid these calls is pay back the loan. They were glad to get loan, now take personal resonsibility. This applies to govt loans, govt needs the money.

[zogofzorkon]

239. Good old personal responsibilty, wadda you want them to pay it back with

their legs? The jobs that were dangled to take out the loans to get the paper to get the job that would pay for the loan are not there.

[julian09]

258. People with degrees have better chance of getting a job

but I'm speaking of those who have a job but do not repay loans. There are many good jobs that go unfilled because of unqualified applicants. In todays world job choices have to be made wisely. It took Obama a long time to repay his loan, he lived it and is aware of the difficulty. We can be Greece or Republicans not pay fair taxes and refuse to raise debt ceiling to pay debt already incurred. That would be great for economy, along with giant cuts.

[MedicalAdmin]

266. Danger, Will Robinson... Danger.

Deadbeats at 10 paces. There! Right next to the welfare mother in the Cadillac.

:sarcasm:

[No Elephants]

331. Yes, they did. Next!

As for government's need, it seems to be a highly selective need, or, among many other things, the Obama tax cuts would not have passed in December 2010 and someone would have looked at the Solyndra loan a tad more carefully.

There are many other examples, but I trust you get the point.

Please see also Replies 316. and 324.

[No Elephants]

166. Do you think they assumed it would be popular with most people?

[Historic NY]

33. Federal law currently permits private collectors to do so..........

"Federal law currently permits private debt collectors to use automatic dialing in trying to contact consumers on their landline phones. They also are permitted to make individually-dialed calls to some cellphones".


So if the government turns over it collections to a private enitity then its okay?


Even here in NY State the tax dept. is getting aggressive with unpaid taxes they are issuing tax warrants. http://www.tax.ny.gov/enforcement/delinquent_taxpayers_individuals.pdf

http://www.nysenate.gov/press-release/sen-kruger-puts-bill-publish-tax-deadbeats-names-finance-committee-agenda

[No Elephants]

333. Then why does the news story begin...

You said this is already allowed and

"So if the government turns over it collections to a private enitity then its okay?"

However, the news story given us in the OP says....

"To the dismay of consumer groups and the discomfort of Democrats, President Barack Obama wants Congress to make it easier for private debt collectors to call the cellphones of consumers delinquent on student loans and other billions owed the federal government"

IOW, our privatizing loving, private contract giving government seems to be already farming out debt collection to private contractors.

Either that, or the Obama administration is, also according to the OP story, making a lot of Democrats uncomfortable vor no apparent reason.

[Historic NY]

356. Its to the collectors of money owed to the government.....

[AngryAmish]

34. What sort of asshole dreamt this up?

This is as stupid as the "W2 for everybody" law.

[KansDem]

36. And the bankers and brokers walk freely...

Amazing what this country has become.

[MsLeopard]

43. Along with the war criminals

who also walk free. The hits just keep on coming.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OhioChick]

44. "People aren't paying their student loans because they can't find a job."

Bingo.

[defendandprotect]

69. Exactly --- !!!

[JNinWB]

262. People can deal honestly with their creditors---keeping them in the loop.

..and work out payment schedules. This is done every day. When one is sent to collections, it is usually because the debtor is actively AVOIDING their creditors.

[No Elephants]

327. "AVOIDING" professional debt collectors is what people who simply cannot pay tend to do,

especially when the collection agents call again and again and again, no matter how many times the debtor explains he or she simply cannot pay in his or her current circumstances.

Might be different if the collection agents would ever take as an answer, "I have no money and no job. I will let you know when I start working."

And let's be clear: this bill is about robo calls for privated debt collection agencies, not calls dialed by a human being who is on the line to speak to, not creditors and not the federal government as creditor.

I see no good reason anyone has to make that easier, especially since the person called has to pay for the call.

And student loans never go away. You can get rid of them by going through bankruptcy. Even if you kill yourself, they are a claim against your estate, if any. And if you have no estate, well, the "you can't get blood from a stone" truism kicks in.

I don't wish anyone ill. Some folks, though, could use more capacity for empathy, even if they have never been in a similar situation.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[zalinda]

49. I said it before, I think this guy is trying to throw the election. n/t

[nineteen50]

51. Change

Are we becoming the same country we fought our war of
independence against? Was it not these same behaviors and
policies we fought against and demanded rights against before
we accepted our constitution?

[No Elephants]

168. Nominally, we have representation in "Parliament."

I think most of them stopped representing voters a couple three decades ago, but technically.....

we are represented by folks we have chosen--and often keep choosing, election after election after election.

[zogofzorkon]

52. I have a button on my phone that ends the call. I use it frequently. You

probably have one too. Just cause some maroon can call you doesn't mean you have to listen to them.

[No Elephants]

329. But, you do have to pay for the incoming call if that is the only cell phone calling

plan you can afford.

And, ironically, when you pick up the phone, you have to pay for a recorded message to boot, not to speak with a human being who can actually listen to you.

That is probably why robo calls to cell phones were prohibited in the past. Seems reasonable to make someone at least dial if the person on the other end has no choice but to pay.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[styersc]

142. At this point I'd be eager to do either!!!!

[Paper Roses]

55. What's next, debtors prison? This whole thing stinks to holy heaven.

[RKP5637]

94. Funny, I was just saying a few minutes ago to someone, here we

go, time to open up the rumored FEMA camps for the debtors. Hail the Corpocracy!!!

[Cherchez la Femme]

128. Well, prisons ARE profitable

...so why not?? :puke:

[blindpig]

56. Which side is he on?

A rhetorical question.

[Danchi]

61. Collection Agency

If you request to a collection agency not to call you, they are allowed to call 1 or 2 more times and than they must stop according to FCC rules. Also on the FCC website there is a compliant form you can send. There are specific rules collection agencies must follow. They can only call between certain hours and they are allowed to call a certain number of times per day. Keep a log of times which is very easy to do with cell phones. If you've asked an agency not to call and they continue document it and sent it to the FCC who will contact the collection agency on your behalf. Stops them cold because they don't want the FCC checking into how they conduct business. Helpful links"
http://www.brokeass-student.com/how-to-fight-back-against-collection-agencies/
http://www.fair-debt-collection.com/disputing-debt-collections.html
Do a search and there are lots of helpful websites. I had an agency calling me for a student loan my adult son had taken out. I requested they not call me but they ignored it so I just put there number in my reject file on my phone (it doesn't ring but it does record the call)after a week I sent a report to the FCC. Two days after that report there were no more phone calls. As far as student loans, I've read on several website that there are statute of limitations and this may be one reason the government is making noise right now because it's becoming know in University settings that there is a good possibility that students may not have to pay the loans back after so many years. You need to check what the individual state statue is.

[Cherchez la Femme]

134. I read somewhere that if you make one payment

long after, but prior to 7 years the account went to a debt collector, the clock resets on the debt.

So if you can't pay for, let's say 5 years, then make a payment;
from the date of that last payment there are 7 years in which it stays on your credit report
and they can continue to harass you for that period.

However, I've heard that there is no statute of limitations on student loans: their obligation never runs out (could that be termed as 'government loans'?)

[No Elephants]

165. Don't know about that, but, if you promise them you'll pay, you've reset the clock.

In most states, maybe all, time to collect a debt runs out, not seven years after it goes to collection, but seven years after the obligation matured.

However, time to collect NEVER runs out on student loans.

[MedicalAdmin]

267. re statute of limitations on student loans. Nope - there are none.

http://www2.ed.gov/offices/OSFAP/DCS/disputes.html#SOL


And you can't get rid of them in bankruptcy either . Student loans are forever. Period.

[lovuian]

62. He really doesn't want to get elected does he?

Students can pay their loans because they don't have jobs
harassing them isn't going to help

[nineteen50]

162. Democratic presidents are only elected to

Get passed that which cannot be done by republicans for the
corporations and money interests. NAFTA

[No Elephants]

342. Sadly, I am beginning to fear that is so. And the reverse as wll.

You forgot repeal of Glass Steagall and crowing over "ending welfare as we know it."

There are probably more, but I am not an expert.

On the other hand, which Democrat could have given millions of undocumented immigrants blanket amnesty and raised the debt ceiling as many times as St. Ronnie?

And who can forget "read my lips (assuming you can find them), no new taxes?"

Though I think Perot did not actually let Poppy get away with that one, but the Perot effect was unusual. Perhaps, if nutter had not interposed himself into that election, Poppy would have gotten away with it.

?Quien sabe?

[Vanje]

209. I wonder, truley

This guy really really REALLY doesn't seem to want me to vote for him, does he?

[ProSense]

63. Here is the National Consumer Law Center release

Obama Deficit Plan Would Allow Debt Collector Robo-Calls to Cell Phones (PDF)

(Washington, DC) Buried in President Obama’s deficit reduction plan (see page 28) is a proposal to allow debt collectors “to contact delinquent debtors via their cellular phones” when collecting debts owed to or guaranteed by the federal government. The proposal will not help reduce the deficit and is harmful for consumers, the National Consumer Law Center warned today.

<...>

Currently, debt collection calls to cell phones are limited because collectors must check their phone number lists against a list of known cell phones and cannot call those numbers unless the consumer has provided that number as a way of reaching them. Though the proposal is limited to debts owed or guaranteed by the federal government, millions of consumers will be affected, including graduates who can’t pay their loans due to the terrible job market, homeowners who are behind in mortgages, and people who are in tax disputes with the Internal Revenue Service. Families who have lost their homes to foreclosure could be exposed to cell phone calls for years if the delinquency on their mortgage is sold to debt buyers.

<...>

The language from the President's proposal:

<...>

Allow agencies to contact delinquent debtors via their cellular phones. The Administration also proposes to amend the Communications Act of 1934 to facilitate collection of debts owed to or guaranteed by the Federal Government, by facilitating contact of delinquent debtors who are most readily reached on their cell phones. This provision is expected to provide substantial increases in collections, particularly as an increasing share of households no longer have landlines and rely instead on cell phones.

<...>

[Myrina]

65. Oh yes, because he's "tearing Wall St a new one" ...

... he's "standing up for us" and "on our side" etc etc ... :puke:

Can he just take off the DINO cloak now and admit he's really an <R> ??
That's why the GOP is putting up a bunch of clowns to 'run' against him - the powers behind the throne have gotten everything they want from him so there's really no need to unseat him next year. It's all a freakin' game.

[Autumn]

86. What you said

:thumbsup:

[Divernan]

102. GOP will be happy to see O re-elected. Then Jeb Bush runs in 2016.

O gives them everything they want and the Dems are held responsible. O. destroys the traditional Democratic campaign platform for all the other Dem candidates. What a good Trojan horse he is!

[dotymed]

68. Student debt APR is about 6% compared to about 3% for other

loans. Our students enter the (workforce?) already in huge debt. IMO, student debt should be forgiven. It would definitely help the main st.. economy. Education should be FREE, that is the only hope for nation. Currently the cost of education rises about the same as the cost for health insurance, another "right" that should be free. (Single payer)

These are two of the reasons that Americans are fed up and corporatists are fat as pigs.
Take back America.

[defendandprotect]

72. Absolutely ... and many ways to do it -- we need an uprising on this ....

Many parents are still paying student loans for their kids after 20 years!!


We could wipe out immediately --

Or we could wipe out anything over 20 years to begin with --

then begin to STOP adding interest -- and depreciate them by 15% or 20% every

year, until the payments and the loan were finished.


These debts are just another way of enslaving people --



:hi:

[Robb]

74. Not to appear even more ignorant than usual, but where are these 3% loans?

[No Elephants]

174. Dunno about 3% on the nose, but mortgages went under 4% at one point.

And that means banks can borrow at a lot less than 4%.

[dotymed]

311. I understand that banks are borrowing below 1%.

I believe that "our" government is paying more, for "our" money. The "FED" is such an unbelievable construct.

[truedelphi]

330. Bravo, dotymed. People in this nation have no idea how much

The system is against that average person - as most people don't travel outside the nation.

Forgive the damn student debt, and make it possible to once again have people in their twenties committed to social causes, and not having to hunker down to pay back the 20 to 120K that they end up owing Sallie Mae.

[truebrit71]

73. This is just another "last straw" for me with this guy...Candidate Obama would kick this guy's ass..

...wonder what happened to him...???

[Township75]

82. So what does that mean?

What does this mean in terms of what you will or will not do:
This is just another "last straw" for me with this guy...

[truebrit71]

99. It means that as time passes he does more and more things that I don't like...

...My overall point was that it is seemingly pointless to draw a line in the sand and say "if he does 'x' I will no longer support him" because he so frequently does things that he said he wouldn't do, or doesn't do what he said he would do, that there would be no sand, just an endless number of lines....

He has sold us out time and time again, and this is merely the latest sell out...

What will I do? I will send money to individual candidates that either have a solid progressive track record, or are not in the hip-pockets of the lobbyists, and encourage people to vote against whichever bat-shit crazy candidate the gop throws-up onto the stage, but I cannot in good conscience send money, or support, or suggest that others support, someone whose actions are clearly not in the best interests of the people that put him in office in the first place...

[No Elephants]

178. Flypaper.

[LiberalEsto]

75. NEXT: Drone attacks on debtors

You never know

[RKP5637]

84. Funny, I was thinking that the other day... There is miniaturized weaponry

technology ... I was thinking, with GPS and the incredible resolution capability, will we have miniature airborne devices within our borders on seek and destroy missions eventually.

[LiberalEsto]

97. Just like the hunter-seekers in the sci-fi novel "Dune"

[RKP5637]

112. Yeah, exactly!!! And the technology exists! n/t

[sarcasmo]

91. How can 28 people rec this thread. Cheer leading is one thing but

making things easier on scum of the earth debt collectors, not what I voted for.

[nc4bo]

104. I could have sworn that the Recs are for ensuring a thread makes it to the front page?

It's not great news, it's disgusting and shouldn't be happening and absolutely should be seen by as many eyes as possible.

[No Elephants]

106. Don't know about you, but I rec a thread if I think it's important for people to see,

not necessarily because I love what the OP news story says.

I would bet those who support Obama the most are unrecc-ing this so fewer people see it, but, of course, that is pure speculation on my part.

I used not to unrec at all, but now I sometimes do if the OP seems to have an anti-left agenda.

[Cherchez la Femme]

146. I didn't rec it as approving it, I rec'd it for increased visability

as the more recs here the higher the thread goes up on the Greatest Page.

And yes, it's very difficult to 'approve' posts in which the quality of content one hates.

[Vanje]

210. I recc'd for greater visibility of the thread. nt

[donheld]

332. So this is why we have so many unrecommends to good threads

as stated in other posts, the recommends do not represent people thinking this is a good idea.
A recommend just wants others to know it's being proposed.

[jwirr]

92. That was not a smart move but it is in line with his other not so smart

moves.

[CountAllVotes]

103. now others can learn why ...

I do not own nor want a f'n cellphone!! :argh:

:kick:

[newspeak]

110. I just love it!!!

"you can't squeeze blood out of a turnip." I think there are some people on the hill who are totally delusional to what's happening on main street.

[SixthSense]

159. agree!

Do we really want unemployed youth to be afraid to answer the phone when they don't know the caller? How are they going to answer callbacks for jobs?

Or is the assumption here that nobody will be calling them for jobs because there won't be any?

[No Elephants]

173. On Capitol Hill? I disagree. They know better than we do.

[stockholmer]

122. face the ugly truth, Obama is a Koch Bother Trojan Horse, on almost ALL fronts

He gives left-cover to a crushingly corporatist agenda, and the fact he is a person of colour guarantees that the masses will spend so much wasted energy on racial issues (pro, con, anti, sophisticated, barefoot inbred Klan stupid, etc etc etc) whilst the systemic controllers look down and laugh and rape and pillage and concentrate power and wealth ever further.

[avaistheone1]

141. Well said.

We're seeing it being played out now on a daily basis.

k&r

:kick:

[No Elephants]

190. Word to left of center posters:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=437x4549

[unionworks]

234. Word to right of center posters

...Wooooooooooooo! :rofl:

[Indydem]

124. Makes me miss the good old days...

When I was fighting for the proven leadership of Hilary Clinton and kept hearing how awesome Barack Obama was and how he was the REAL progressive.

Oh well, right? She's just a "republican" anyway.

[bengalherder]

157. Like Hillary would have been different.

Voted for the non-Clinton and wound up in bed with the DLC anyway.

Hillary promised many of these things on the campaign trail that's why she didn't win.

[No Elephants]

334. Hillary was part of the group that invented the idea

that Democrats should really be Republicans because Democrats would vote for Democrats no matter what and being RW might get you some Republican or Indie votes, too.

If you think she would have been less of a neocon than Obama, I think you should think again.

ETA: "invented" is probably an exaggeration. However, "packaged nicely and sold to the Democratic Party to the point that telling the DLC and DNC apart became very hard" is not an exaggeration.

And no matter how hard Hillary's supporters want to be right about the primary, the primary was still over in 2008; nothing is ever going to change that; and we now have much bigger problems than Hillary v. Obama.

[Safetykitten]

133. Hey kids at OWS...I have a present for you! Your Bud, Obama.

[SoapBox]

140. Contact the White House HERE

http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact

You can also call or write to the President:
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500
Please include your e-mail address

Phone Numbers
Comments: 202-456-1111
Switchboard: 202-456-1414
FAX: [phone]

TTY/TDD
Comments: 202-456-6213
Visitors Office: 202-456-2121


...Nancy Reagan was correct. Tell President O that we, the 99%, JUST SAY, NO!

[disndat]

154. The lesser of 2 evils?

Now, in today's NYTimes, a front page story of Hillary Clinton's close aid in her campaign '08 and now working as chief Trans Canad's lobbyist, Paul Elliot, is the lead U.S.negoitator with Canada to build the most environmentally destructive pipeline yet, from Canada to the Gulf of Mexico.

[yurbud]

160. it's got to be tough to try to win the support of victims and abusers at the same time...

[MJJP21]

164. STRATEGY

Vote republican for president and democrat for everything else. The posters above concerned about Obama being a republican in disguise is spot on. A second term will be more of the same and worse but demcrats are afraid of confronting him for fear of being a non team player. Have a democratic house and senate then hamstring the president.

[MedicalAdmin]

269. That is a good idea.

Eureka moment for me for some reason. Maybe I need more beer. :toast:

[Lasher]

170. Oh good, this shit comes out on the day of the Governor election in my state.

And don't think it won't swing a few votes to the Republican candidate.

[hulka38]

175. You're all just jealous

that you're not as pragmatic as this guy. Anyway, the Repubs forced him to do it.

:sarcasm:

[Cats Against Frist]

179. Once again -- let the banks off the hook, but not the hard-working Americans. n/t

[alp227]

181. the kind of shit that Ron Paul would do n/t

[chill_wind]

275. Or Ryan.

[BigAnth]

182. What's so wrong with expecting people to pay back their student loans?

What's wrong with calling people's cell phones to collect an outstanding debt? I was fortunate enough to be able to go to college and get both undergraduate and graduate degrees with the help of government-guaranteed student loans and grant money. It took a while to pay these back after starting to work, but I paid back every cent. It was like getting a nice pay raise once they were paid off. The interest rates were extremely low. I'm grateful fot the opportunity to use these student loans and have no sympathy for people who do not repay their loans. The interest rates are very low and you can choose the repayment term, up to 10 years, if I recall correctly.

[Occulus]

189. Because that isn't the real problem.

From a poster upthread:

I just got my PhD. I had to pay for my BA and MA myself. I didn't go to expensive private schools, I just had the misfortune of going to a good state school in a state (NJ) who had a governor (Whitman) who didn't give a shit about helping out higher education. Thus, I paid a fortune in in-state tuition. Then I did my MA in California. Loans for that so I could afford to rent a tiny apartment, even though I was working. Then for the PhD, I got paid a stipend UNDER the poverty line, so even though tuition was paid for by my department, my university fees were outrageous and I could barely afford bills, food, etc. Loans for that.
Anyway, I'm thinking about writing the President a letter. Yes, Mr. President, I have a job. I have a job because I mortgaged my future. What choice did I have? I'll never make 6 figures (I'm a professor), but those fucking zillionaires will pay a lower tax rate than I (currently, I lose $1400 of my monthly income to taxes and benefits---thank god I have benefits and a job-I know I'm fortunate, so please don't slam me for complaining). Republicans will scream about socialism the minute any Democrat suggests raising rich folks' taxes. My uncle joked his tax cut would pay off nearly all my loans. In one fall swoop. That's insanity.
So, Mr. President, for all of us who mortgaged our futures to get good jobs that don't pay us millions...keep screwing us.

www.occupywallst.org

[BigAnth]

193. So what are you saying is the real problem?

That people have to take out student loans to finance their education? Nobody held a gun to anyone's head and forced them to take out student loans.

[Occulus]

208. .

:rofl:

[JNinWB]

211. There is something seriously delusional with many DUers' ideas....

If you borrow money, you need to repay your debt.

According to many commentors here, Obama's position (that borrowers of govt-backed money could be contacted about their debts) is outrageous.

If the Government should not be allowed to call debtors, what other lenders should be excluded from collecting money owed to them?? Target, car dealerships, mortgage lenders, small businesses, CC companies? Deadbeats think that a cellphone should shield them from creditors---extremely flawed thinking.

Debt-collectors are not the "bad guys"; deadbeats are.

[MedicalAdmin]

271. You have obviously never met a debt collector.

I have. They are scum, if that isn't an insult to green pond dwelling goo.

Either that or you are one.




Yes, debts should be repaid if possible. And many people just can't.

[JNinWB]

273. No. I have never failed to repay debts.

It's a matter of ethics, morality. You borrow money, you pay it back.

Except on DU, where scofflaws are praised for scamming creditors (in the case of the US Govt = us).

I understand the occasional inability to re-pay debts in a timely fashion. However, refusing to deal honestly with creditors in order to keep them apprised of the financial situation is generally what leads to collections.

[MedicalAdmin]

276. I too have paid off every debt I have ever had.

But I was lucky and the circumstances rolled my way allowing me to ability to do so. Others are not so lucky.

Collectors have other options for communications besides cell phones. They can write, email, etc. Cell calls cost money every time they are used or messages are picked up. That is the reality. They don't need to be able to call cell phones. Period.

And collectors lie and cheat and add spurious fees all the time. They break the law and harass anyone they can get away with harassing. It's shameful and they shouldn't get a chance to screw people more than they can.


I honestly think that you aren't seeing what most are saying here; that they don't want collectors calling CELL PHONES. Very few are saying anything else. And yes, some are also saying that they think that low or zero cost schooling is a good idea. These are separate issues, although this fact seems to have gone over your head with a whoosh like a predator drone.

So, to get back to my intimation and now question, are you employed or otherwise financially ties to, or re-compensated in any way shape or form by a collections agency?

[CopingBarker]

278. Wow, I had to read 211 posts before someone started making sense

Seriously, it's OUTRAGEOUS and UNCONSCIONABLE that someone should be expected to pay back their debts? Wha?

If you don't want to be enslaved to debt, which is what debt does to you, do everything that you can to live within your means and pay back what you've borrowed. Student loans can be brutal but that's why they give you years to pay them back at a low interest rate. I know people that have taken over 10 years to pay off their loans, because it made more economic sense.

You made the deal, you knew your college education wasn't free (by the way, this whole thing has gotten twisted off on student loans but I'm sure it covers a lot more than that)and you agreed to pay back the money you borrowed. Does it turn out that the Greek Philosphy or German or who knows what else major was a total waste of money? Yep. Welcome to real life, where math, science, law and medicine pay the bills and everything else is hit or miss.

I feel for people in debt, and have been there to a small degree but got out as fast as I could. Bottom line is if you signed on the dotted line, they're entitled to come after you.

Oh yeah, debt collectors are slimeballs, because they're apparently the only ones that get results.

[JNinWB]

281. Thanks for your comment.

I was beginning to think that I was one of the few posters,
who believe borrowers have an obligation to repay debts.

The cell phone issue is a red herring; if creditors can
contact you on a land line, they should be able to contact you
on your cell.  A distinction without a difference.

Student loan debtors owe the money to "us"
taxpayers, by the way.

[unionworks]

219. fyi

There are no jobs to be able to pay anything back. From reading DU you might notice people all over America are taking to the streets to protest this.

[snooper2]

265. A lot of people do have jobs..Employment rate at around 90%

[Odin2005]

183. This administration is worse than useless, it's positively harmful.

OCCUPY TOGETHERAND FIGHT THIS SHIT

[a2liberal]

188. Funny how all the defenders stay silent

I guess there's no good way to spin this one, eh?

[ieoeja]

223. While I have probably written more against Obama recently, I think I know why they are not here.

If they are like me, they are reading this thread completely dumbfounded that allowing gov't debt collections to call cell phones is being compared to debtor's prison, war crimes, etc.

My jaw literally dropped at one point while I was reading this. This has to be one of the most inconsequential threads ever, yet is being labelled time and again as huge, unbelievable, etc. It's not. It is a really, really tiny issue to 99 44/100th percent of the American public.

This thread almost ranks up there with bombing the moon.

[Vanje]

230. Here they are

Over at this DU thread, Obama is totally kicking bankers asses.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=789129&mesg_id=789129

[chill_wind]

242. LOL

[a2liberal]

255. Ah, using an ancient article and making it sound current

unless you notice that little detail hidden away in his post. Sounds typical.

[JackRiddler]

240. Well, you do have a couple of apple pie debt hawk types. You damn deadbeats.

What is it with people nowadays, eh? Just because no money, they want to get out of their debts? Hey, it's their choice not to go to college!!!

[Nihil]

344. Most of them seemed to have signed up for new sock-puppet accounts ...

... judging by the "personal responsibility" posts that sprung up ...

:shrug:

[JNinWB]

197. We are the "Government"---our taxes are what guarantee govt-backed loans.

Maybe I'm too old to understand this attitude that borrowers should not have to pay back debt unless it's convenient for them

They should also not be contacted by us (this Government's financiers) to repay lawful debt! Land-line phones are practically obsolete; but apparently cel-using debtors believe they should be untouchable.

Maybe "students" should re-think taking on such huge debt-loads to finance their college education.

[No Elephants]

229. Let's see.

It's not about whether you pay a debt when it's convenient.

It's about being hounded. At your expense, no less, because some cell phone users have to pay for each and every incoming call because they cannot afford a better plan.

A d maybe you simply don't have the money to pay the debt because you are just out of school and can't get a job to save your life, literally.

Or you are a 99er whose unemployment ran out long ago.

Or, you got laid off when you were 55 and may never get hired again for the rest of your career.

And, maybe you ran up student loans because the grant and scholarship money was not available and loans were the only way for you to get an education, which everyone told you all your life was the only way you were ever going to get a decent job. And your interest rate on the student loan was 10% or worse, even with a government guaranty.

If you cannot understand stuff like that, I don't know what to say to or about you.

You do know that student loans are NEVER discharged, right? Not even if you declare bankruptcy. And not even if you die. If you have a pot to piss in when you drop dead, the lender can take it.

Finally, what do you think the chances are that this proposal will get through DINOs and Rethugs in Congress without making it applicable to ALL lenders? And, if I can see that coming, why can't the WH?

Or did the big bad Congress make Obama propose this?

[MedicalAdmin]

272. Yes, I agree.

For example, rather than going to college or trade school they should all be bidding to mow your lawn for $1 an hour. Perhaps if they are lucky you will let them toss your salad before leaving to unplug your toilet.

[JNinWB]

279. Students can attend college or trade school without incuring staggering debt.

Students do it all the time.

Something potential college students should consider is the total investment in a college degree---income not earned during the college years plus student loans. (total = 250,000 - 300,000 ??)

Will future jobs, requiring this degree, repay the student with increased income over his career to justify these costs and loan re-payments?

[No Elephants]

339. Students today go to college "all the time" without incurring staggering debt?

Yet you cite the cost of an education being between $250,000 to $300,000.

Most people cannot do that all the time without incurring debt.

As far as considering the total cost of education, until relatively recently, most college graduates assumed, with reason , (a) getting a college degree was the only way for them to get a good job; and (b) a job would be available to them.

I really don't know why I am replying, JNinWB.

These things should be obvious.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

199. I'm already getting debt collecting scammers messages on my cellphone - regularly.

And Credo - our provider - can do nothing to stop them. And of course I have to pay for the minutes.

[proReality]

200. Debtor's prison next?

If you can't find a job to pay your loan back will the next step be debtor's prison, where you get loaned out to corporations for pennies or no wages?

[Vanje]

203. This is ..

fucked.

[Daphne08]

212. Not a word about the Wall Street thieves however.

Well, that's just great. :mad:

[No Elephants]

231. War criminals and banksters, we can let off the hook. Someone who took a student loan

to try to be competitive in the job market, however, should have to pay for calls that hound them.

[Hawkowl]

214. As bad as Shrub

Yeah, yeah, his policies aren't quite as bad as Shrub's, but listening to his stammering comments, and bald faced lying speeches evoke the same intense hatred of the man and his policies.

One of the big differences between Obama and Bush, is that Obama's campaign strategists are absolute fucking morons. Why, in an acceleration into the "double-dip", with the entire continent of Europe on the verge of default, and occupy Wall Street protests increasing in strength daily, would you announce such a anti-voter policy and pro-debt collector scum?

WHY YOU STUPID FUCKS!?! YOU TRYING TO LOSE THE ELECTION ON PURPOSE?! :banghead:

[sandyj999]

215. That just gives me a warm, fuzzy feeling toward him. n/t

[Poll_Blind]

217. You can ALWAYS count on Obama!

:bounce:

PB

[Still Blue in PDX]

218. Maybe he should do something to make consumers ABLE to pay their damned loans.

Honestly.

I am working two jobs while my husband and 21-year-old son are unemployed. I probably shouldn't come on DU because it just adds to my constant pissed off state of mind.

:argh:

[diane in sf]

220. No

[TacticalPeek]

221. Jesus God.

Is there no end to this shit?

[unionworks]

222. this is unbelievable!

A pure republican dick move. Why bother to call the white house? It came out of his mouth that this is HIS IDEA. To the streets.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

302. its a republican dick move to want to be able to contact people trying to avoid their

creditors or who hasn't paid their loans for a while(since it usually takes a few bills before they involve creditors collectors)?

Obama wants the government to be able to call peoples cellphones since landlines are getting obsolete, i see that as fairly common sense.

Using myself as an example, lets say i were to have borrowed a ton of money(2-300000) for my studies et al from the government, now i don't have a landline and only a cell-phone. Are you telling me that i should be immune from being contacted by them due to my lack of landline?

[SavWriter]

227. Let me guess

The big money donors need a favor right? Is there anything corrupt and greedy thugs want that our President won't give them?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

228. David Espo!

chuckle

[unionworks]

232. just called

The white house comment line at 202 456 1111 (?) Yes, I succumbed. Everyone else on this thread should too. And. Be nice to the volunteers, O.K? :)

[Initech]

233. Ah, the chump change we voted for.

[progressoid]

235. Yummy. That's changelicious.

:grr:

[stormpilot]

236. Great. I'm already being hounded on my cell phone

for student loan debt. I'm squeezed.

[chill_wind]

238. I was suprised

but it appears to have its share of defenders.

Thread from a couple weeks ago

Obama Defict Reduction plan Proposes Allowing Banksters Debt Collectors to Call Peoples' Cell Phones
Marcy Wheeler: The $648 Monthly Fine for Not Having a Job

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1977150&mesg_id=1977150

[ljm2002]

241. Wow, way to stick up for the Little People, Mr. President...

...oh, wait a sec, let me rephrase that:

Way to stick it to the Little People, Mr. President.

Gaak.

[radhika]

243. Sqeeze the last drop of blood from students and homeowners...

but have your DoJ put together a sweetheart settlement deal for B of A and the other banksters that immunizes them from other suits.

And while you're at it Obama, cut those unemployment benefits too.

[femrap]

253. WTF is wrong with him? nt

[chill_wind]

260. Campaign coffers need a boost.

Not keeping up with what they were in 2008.

[femrap]

288. Guaranteed huge profits

for MSM every 4 years. Sickening. TV ads for prez should be FREE or each candidate gets the same amount of public funds.

Damn Citizens United and the Greedy sons-of-short-dicks.

[FedUp_Queer]

254. Many have already asked, but I have to ask.

What are the Obama toadies going to say now? How many times does he have to screw the middle class and those struggling for people to see that this man is not a liberal, that he has succumbed to the corporatist temptation (if ever wasn't a corporatist)?

[JNinWB]

261. Expecting people to pay lawful debts is screwing the middle class?

I own and manage a small family business.

I expect customers to pay their bills.

Otherwise, no business, no employees.

Explain why deadbeats should not pay their bills. No one has offered an explanation for this idea.

[nc4bo]

268. Oh yea, I'm sure every single person that owes money to some entity wants to be a deadbeat.

Nice. :eyes:

[FedUp_Queer]

270. I think you really miss the point.

The point is the GD double standard. The government is harping about $35.6 billion when the GD banks get handed $16 trillion FOR FUCKING UP THE ENTIRE SYSTEM!!!! It's about the double standard. And let me tell you this: in New York, there are rampant debt collection "law firms" that are defrauding people to the tune of 100,000 default judgments procured illegally without documentation, filing false papers, etc. That's what this is ultimately about, and before you think "that doesn't happen," it happened to me. Right there in black and was an affidavit of service filed in the court where the law firm said it served a person who doesn't exist. Right there was the debt collection "law firm" bringing suits with no evidence, no documentation.

So...I'm very glad that you have a small business. I definitely think that people should pay their bills. However, if that is our standard, how about we apply it to the ones who received $16 trillion IN FREE FUCKING MONEY!!!!! The notion that people who don't pay are automatically deadbeats is offensive. Sometimes people get in trouble. Sometimes, I don't know, people lose their jobs. The thing is...you can't name one individual who did as much damage INTENTIONALLY as the banks did. The notion that individuals have a higher standard than a corporation is disgustingly repugnant.

[JNinWB]

282. How many of these debtors are keeping their creditors in the loop and arranging exended terms?

But, you already know how this works.

Students who can't repay their govt-backed loans are special and need special consideration.

It's all Obama's fault.

[nc4bo]

287. You should really tell these people what you're so easily spewing here...

http://wearethe99percent.tumblr.com/

[No Elephants]

341. Yeah. I knew my sign line was way too generous. I played it safe. I should change it.

In questioning Bernanke yesterday, the most unlikely celebrity dreamboat in America, Sen. Sanders pointed out some sickening statistics.

[FedUp_Queer]

312. You're really not worth responding to. That much ignorance CAN'T be a business owner.

[JNinWB]

283. You are confusing the "point"

You can't throw everything but the kitchen sink into an argument--moving the goal-posts. Bank bail-outs are not the issue.

Individuals who accept credit are expected to repay their debs, despite whatever else is going on in the world. It has always worked that way. Too many here are busily creating false equivalencies in order to muddy the issue.

[Occulus]

289. Does that also work for federal employers?

I only ask because the Issa bill moving through Congress right now would give a financial manager the power to nullify the APWU contract with postal management, eliminate the no-layoff clause, and basically demolish negotiated pay, benefits, and leave times that were mutually agreed to not six months ago.

So I ask you- if a contract I sign or agree to or am party to (such as my union's contract with postal management) can be nullified the moment the obliging party cannot meet the terms, what good are contracts I sign, and why should I pay a single red cent of anything I owe to any businesses outstanding debts?

I can tell you this: if I lost my job because my legally binding and judicially enforceable contract got nullified (a very real prospect) because the other party (the USPS) can't meet its contractual obligations to me and I get "excessed", I'm not paying anyone anything I "owe" because at that moment I will just decide I don't owe anything. After all, it's a contract I can't honor any more, so I'll just let myself off the hook.

How is what is being considered by Congress to be done to me as a postal employee any different than an individual defaulting on a loan or a credit card debt or a mortgage, and why is not being able to meet those obligations considered to be a moral failure of the individual, but not of the Congress or the USPS, and why do people such as yourself assume I have a greater responsibility to my creditors, with whom I have signed an enforceable contract, than my employer does to me as a union member, with whom they have agreed to an enforceable contract?

As another poster stated, there's a serious double standard going on here, and not one of our creation as individuals.

[FedUp_Queer]

313. Really, you're just a right-wing troll. Andrew Breibart, is that you?

I will say it again. You are not a business owner. That's a silly ruse to give credibility to a moron. Go on...move along...nothing to see here...no worries...put that head back in the sand.

[JNinWB]

347. I have owned a business for 33 years---how about your business experience.

Without the availability of credit and the trust that bills will be paid---both bills I owe MY creditors, and the money owed to MY business---the company could not survive and @40 individuals would lose jobs.

So, I'm a troll because I believe that it is a moral responsibility to repay debts?

If this is what "real Progressives" believe, then I'm glad that I am simply a garden-variety liberal. I am really shocked. and even a bit shaken by the anti-business rhetoric here. Plus these personal slurs.

"Progressives" defending debtors evading personal responsibility (by using a cell phone) is surely a new low and ethically indefensible.

[FedUp_Queer]

350. Are you really that thick?

Wait, yes you are. You're just not worth responding to. And, no, I don't believe you own any business. The first thing you have to know how to do is read.

[JNinWB]

352. Specifics please.

Provide evidence that I can't read! And that I'm "thick".

Keep up the ad homs---you have no arguments supporting defaulters, so you must resort to slander.

Please don't respond. My opinions and business do not require your "belief"; we have survived for over 3 decades without your inputs.

[FedUp_Queer]

354. Slander?

Oh, please stick to your "business" and not use words whose meanings you don't know. As for specifics, please re-read your prior posts. And continue believing and telling people you have a business. I know you don't. On some level, you know you don't. The prosecution rests.

[JNinWB]

355. Why would I claim to own a business if I did not?

You are only posting irrational comments---off to ignore you go.

[No Elephants]

324. Fail. Who gets "justice" imposed on them in every particular and who does not is very much

part of the larger issue.

"Individuals who accept credit are expected to repay their debs"

Bingo. Individuals are. If corporations like Solyndra get half a billion and go belly up, oh well. The executives who took nice salaries from that money while it lasted are off the hook.

No one will make them disgorge, no matter how unreasonably high the salaries may have been To the contrary, if they are owed salary, that will be a priority when the bankruptcy estate is divvied up and come out before any of the creditors, public or private, see a dime.

And, Solyndra will simply disappear. Over half a billion in taxpayer dollars. Presto! Poof! Gone.

And no one in government who green lighted that lousy deal will be held accountable, either.

But a kid who could not get a grant or scholarship and had to take loans to pay tuitions that have gone through the roof and now has no job or ability to repay RIGHT NOW should be hounded until dead. AND pay for the cell calls to hound him or her, too.

Why until dead? Well, student loans NEVER go away. Solyndra can go through bankruptcy and disappear a half billion, but a student loan survives bankruptcy and even the death of the student.

You simply don't know things like Solyndra, the bailout, and the letting Bushco off the hook versus how an indigent former student is treated is all part and parcel of our kleptocracy and plutonomy? Well, then read up.

[Marrah_G]

353. Yes- all those unemployed - underemployed "deadbeats"

[FiveGoodMen]

263. Not on America's side.

Clearly never was.

[coyote]

277. No real jobs program.....no public option....

no ending of the wars in Afghanistan/Iraq.....

real unemployment hovering around 18-20%....and this guy's priority is giving bill collectors access to call your cell phone.

This guy is an asshole.

[Vanje]

280. Just so.

Truly spoken

[woo me with science]

361. When you lay it out like that,

all of the apologia can go straight to hell.

[FrenchieCat]

291. Does anyone read around here????

Much of Student loans until very recently are held by private Banks, other than the smaller Government student loans like Perkins, etc.... Private banks won't qualify for what this measure does, which is in regard ONLY to GOVERNMENT debt. And there is law already which already allows calls to be made via automatic redial to your house.

For this folks are ready to walk? :wow:

Doesn't take much to be willing to end up with much worse, it appears. The reactions here are totally hyperbolic and out of whack.

Guess when the Republican President takes over, y'all will become more selective with your outrage, no? Cause no matter what you say, as they give student loans back to a middle man, they won't hear you, and they will let you know just that. Good luck! :shrug:

[JNinWB]

349. Does the re-payment of current student loans

...have any effect on the availability of funds to make future loans to needy students?

Or will Rs simply use the poor re-payment of the current loans as an excuse to cancel, or significantly reduce, the program?

Anyone know how this works?

[goforit]

293. Resign and get over it Obama.

[Marrah_G]

308. Always on the side of the people, aren't you Mr. President?

!@#$%^&*

[DesertDiamond]

322. Still trying to squeeze it out of the 99%ers????

[Systematic Chaos]

326. Not to worry. Peak Oil will be along soon enough and render all these hassles moot.

Nobody is going to give a shit about student loan debt, credit card debt, or any of this other junk when our standard of living reverts back to that of circa 1875.

But on the bright side, maybe then you will be able to barter a couple of hens for a root canal. :shrug:

[No Elephants]

343. I've heard tell of doctors accepting an invite to a chicken supper in

exchange for delivering a baby during the Depression.

Two whole hens for only a root canal? Well, that's inflation for you!

[Autumn]

348. It's a damn good thing I have 8 hens

maybe I better get a rooster. Hell of a way to get bad teeth taken care of.

[Vidar]

351. Just join the Republicans already, Obama. End the charade.

[Rex]

357. He gives a free pass to his paymasters and we all see it for the

hypocrisy it is. Picking on the little guy won't get you very many votes, but I guess that ain't an issue anymore in modern America.

[Kennah]

358. This will send América Móvil stock through the roof

[sarcasmo]

359. Calling my cell phone is just not acceptable. Kick back to the top for this thread.

[krabigirl]

360. So sick of this right wing president, sorry, but that's what he is. Nt