Guantánamo film shows plight of Canadian national detained at 15

[Turborama]

Source: The Guardian

Filmed interrogation raises ethical questions over treatment of Omar Khadr, arrested in Afghanistan in 2002 and still in custody

Peter Walker | Wednesday October 04 2011 16.43 BST

The footage is shocking: grainy film shows a slim teenage boy, hunched into himself under a spotlight in a bare interrogation cell. "You don't care about me," he tells his interrogators, again and again. After they leave, the ceiling-mounted camera records his racking sobs, just audible over the hum of the air-conditioner.

At the time of this interrogation in Guantánamo Bay, February 2003, the boy, Omar Khadr, a Canadian national, was barely 16, yet he had already been in military custody for seven months.

Now 25, he remains in the US detention centre, though he will soon be transferred to a prison in Canada in deal which led him to plead guilty last year to war crimes.

As far as the Pentagon is concerned, Khadr's case is closed. But a film about his interrogation, released in the UK this week, raises a series of deeply troubling questions. Firstly, it asks, why did the US try a child, captured in Afghanistan aged 15, when UN treaties decree underage combatants be treated as victims? How reliable was a confession Khadr says was extracted under torture and, it emerged later, tacit threats of gang rape?

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/05/guantanamo-film-rights-child-soldier

---

An excerpt from the documentary 'Four Days Inside Guantánamo': http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2011/oct/05/four-days-inside-guantanamo-video

The documentary's site: http://www.youdontlikethetruth.com/

[Bragi]

1. As a Canadian, I'm horrified and embarrassed

Successive Liberal and Conservative governments behaved disgracefully in this saga. There is no other way to put it. Sadly, most Canadians seemed to be fine with the abuse of this child soldier.

Given that the CBC has been rendered docile due to threatened cuts if not dismantling by the (now majority) Conservative Harper government, I doubt we'll be seeing this documentary soon in Canada.

[CanSocDem]

2. I'm deeply ashamed of my government...

...for their tacit approval of this torture. Trumped up charges by the RCMP, affected anti-terrorist hysteria from the government and a 16 year old is sent to the notorious Guantanamo prison camp.

On the plus side, Bragi, the trailer says it is going to be released in "Cinema's"...soon!

Into the public domain....

If our country still has a conscience, it'll be more evidence of the utter stupidity of tying our horse to the American military machine.

.

[msanthrope]

4. Well, Kadhr's father, the head of this terrorist cell, didn't like your country, either.

Khadr patriarch disliked Canada, says al-Qaeda biography
Last Updated: Thursday, February 7, 2008 | 7:07 AM ET

A biography of the patriarch of the Khadr family posted on an al-Qaeda website praises him as a fighter for the poor who disliked living among the luxuries of Canada. Ahmed Said Khadr is one of dozens of people profiled in the "Book of 120 Martyrs in Afghanistan." It is posted online at the Al-Fajr media centre, al-Qaeda's online news service.

SNIP

His biographer says he found the luxury of Canada not to his liking. He returned to Pakistan, becoming an al-Qaeda commander in Logar province when U.S.-led coalition forces invaded Afghanistan following the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, says the biography.

SNIP

Khadr's son, Omar Khadr, is also praised in the biography. Omar Khadr is currently on trial at a U.S. military prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, for allegedly killing an American soldier with a grenade in 2002.

The biography praises Ahmed Said Khadr for "tossing his little child in the furnace of the battle." Omar, says the biography, is an injured lion cub who hasn't let despair overwhelm him despite being arrested and imprisoned.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2008/02/07/khadr-bio.html


I'm going to suspect that this is why the people of Canada really didn't raise an outcry.

[Kelvin Mace]

10. When we torture children

and keep silent, we have lost all moral standing.

[msanthrope]

18. Except that he wasn't tortured. Being made to cry by the cops, and being told what is going to

happen to you in adult prison if you don't tell the truth isn't torture. It's standard police interrogation.

Being told that your interrogators will rape you, is torture.

The former happened to Mr. Kadhr. Not the latter.

[EFerrari]

22. Bullshit. n/t

[msanthrope]

29. What a well-reasoned reply. nt

[CHIMO]

38. My Thoughts

Exactly. Glad to see that you see the light!

[Kelvin Mace]

39. Really?

You think threatening to rape someone is "standard police interrogation"?

Cops who follow that "standard" procedure get sued and often go to prison.

Again, you will have to point me to relevant statute in the U.S. Code. Of course, the U.S. and Somalia are the only countries who refused to sign the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child.

However, according to US statute 2340 torture is defined as:

(1) “torture” means an act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control;

(2) “severe mental pain or suffering” means the prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from—

(A) the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering;

And what is the penalty for violating 2340?

(a) Offense.— Whoever outside the United States commits or attempts to commit torture shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both, and if death results to any person from conduct prohibited by this subsection, shall be punished by death or imprisoned for any term of years or for life.

Even conspiring to torture is an offense:

(c) Conspiracy.— A person who conspires to commit an offense under this section shall be subject to the same penalties (other than the penalty of death) as the penalties prescribed for the offense, the commission of which was the object of the conspiracy.

[msanthrope]

40. Yes. Your post proves my point.

If someone under the color of authority threatens to rape a prisoner, or person in custody, that would be torture, or at least cruel and inhuman punishment.

If they threaten to have them raped? Torture--or at least cruel and inhuman punishment.

But if a cop, or other LEO points out to a juvie perp what they think will happen to them if they are incarcerated with adult prisoners? That is not torture. That is standard police interrogation.

You may not like or agree with it, but there it is.

[Kelvin Mace]

43. Again, please point to the staute which supports your view

While not a lawyer, I have been involved in juvenile court proceedings, guardians ad litem, and lawsuits for police misconduct.

What you describe is NOT standard interrogation, and is illegal.

Under U.S. law, police are NOT allowed to interrogate a minor in the absence of parent, guardian, or legal counsel.

Under U.S. law and in every state a 15 year old is a minor.

[msanthrope]

46. I am a lawyer. It's up to you to cite your claim that refutes the ruling of Judge

Patrick Parrish that torture did not take place. I've already summarized it for you.

Here's the ruling. Since you dispute it, tell us how and why.

http://www.defense.gov/news/D94-D111.pdf

While you cited the code--you failed, utterly, to cite a single action of the interrogators that is a crime under the code. Noting what other prisoners will do to you is not a crime. Threatening that you will do violence, or have someone else do violence is a crime. The judge found that the former happened, not the latter.

Under US law? Which law is that? Cite your work.

[Kelvin Mace]

55. I find it quite hard to believe you are a lawyer

but you may be, perhaps you practice real estate law.

Next you will tell me that no one was tortured at Abu Ghraib.

[IamK]

57. when you throw a hand grenade at someone there is a price to pay...

[IamK]

58. Most Canadians I know love to spend time on the beach in Cuba...

yeah his accommodations are not great, but he did blow someone up so what do you expect....I've stayed in hotel rooms smaller than that in London...

[Scairp]

47. This is insane

They locked up a kid because he was turning into a terrorist, but if they had taken the rehabilitation approach, put him in a detention home for young offenders, treated him gently and given him an education and psychiatric counseling, I bet he would be a productive young man with no intent to take innocent human life. Now, they have kept him locked up, abused, allegedly tortured or at least threatened with it, through his formative years and have turned him into an angry young man who would join up with the first terror group who would have him. What fucking geniuses we in the West think we are.

[msanthrope]

48. Turning into a terrorist? He'd thrown a grenade and killed a medic.

What detention home for young offenders would you recommend for the son of an AL-Qaeda commander who had already killed?

Seriously. Kindly name the group home you think this poor young lad would have done well in.

[EFerrari]

6. Omar Khadir -- Innocent until Tortured Guilty - from 2009

The troops took him into custody on July, 2002 after a firefight at Ab Khail, Afghanistan. In the lull that had followed their four hour battle with five men, considered to be al-Qaeda terrorists, someone threw a grenade into the area that the troops were entering and clearing -- also with grenades. One of the soldiers, Sgt. Speer, who received a head wound during the incident, was evacuated and later died from his injuries. Another, Sgt. Layne Morris, lost sight in one eye due to his injuries.

Meanwhile, the troops found Omar Khadr hiding between the rubble of two buildings and they opened fire, shooting him three times in the chest. He dropped the pistol he was carrying and called out in English, “Shoot me. Please, just shoot me.”

They saw that he was a small boy who could’ve been mistaken for thirteen. (Born September 19, 1986, he was actually fifteen.) The unit’s medic intervened and gave the boy medical attention. Assuming that Khadr was the only one alive at the time the grenade was thrown, the troops and later the U.S. government also assumed that he threw the grenade that killed Sgt. Speer and injured Sgt. Morris. Exculpatory evidence from the sworn statement of a U.S. soldier, who saw the gunfight, was suppressed.

According to Carol Williams in the Los Angeles Times, “The eye-witness’ account contradicts the government version of events and could exonerate Khadr of the war crimes with which he is charged: murder, attempted murder, conspiracy, spying and material support for terrorism.”

http://jacksonville.com/interact/blog/joanne_herrmann/2009-09-11/omar_khadir_innocent_until_tortured_guilty

[msanthrope]

16. He swore to a court that he threw that grenade, and apologized to the widow of his victim. In 2010.

As an adult.

http://media.miamiherald.com/smedia/2010/10/26/10/stip.source.prod_affiliate.56.pdf

You understand that he killed the medic who helped him, right, and took out the eye of another?

[EFerrari]

20. No, I understand he made a coerced statement

to his captors that was debunked by an eyewitness who is a member of our armed forces.

[msanthrope]

26. Kadhr made his stipulation w/ his defense counsel, who he had the "highest praise and respect for."

The stipulation was made just last year, 2010--when he had a Canadian defense team.

Even as he changed lawfirms, he wrote of Dennis Edney, who oversaw his stipulation--

"Although I feel deeply indebted to you for your dedication, changing counsel at this time is in my best interests," Khadr wrote in a typewritten notice he signed Aug. 3. "I have the highest praise and respect for you both.""


Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/08/04/2345505/captive-omar-khadr-fires-canadian.html#ixzz1ZwY8eVSV


He stipulated, and apologized to the widow. If he is not gainsaying it, why are you????

[EFerrari]

27. You have been given enough information to know better, were you arguing

in good faith. Since you're not, ciao.

[msanthrope]

31. No, you seem to think a documentary is somehow more persuasive than Mr. Kadhr himself.

Mr. Kadhr's stipulation was made in 2010, as an adult. Apparently, you have some super-secret evidence that gainsays both Mr. Kadhr and his attorneys, who are highly respected.

If you have that evidence, I suggest you produce it. Otherwise, I am going to believe that Mr. Kadhr did what he said he did--killed Medic Speer.

[Kelvin Mace]

44. Give me a ten years with you

and I'll have you swearing you set fire to the Reichstag.

[msanthrope]

52. So you claim that Mr. Khadr is a liar? nt

[Kelvin Mace]

56. I am telling you that if your only way out of being in prison

forever is to sign a false confession and "apologize" for your crime, after ten years YOU WILL SIGN and you WILL lie. You will do or say ANYTHING that will get you out of a concentration camp.

In case you have forgot (and as a "lawyer" I can't see how you would), the 5th Amendment is pretty damn clear on the issue of due process. It took them YEARS to charge him with anything, and when there case was falling apart they offered him a deal, freedom for a confession.

Due process includes the writ of habeus, which the Constitution is pretty specific about:

"The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion, the public safety may require it."

The country has not been invaded. There is no state of rebellion.

Then there is that pesky 6th Amendment:

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

If you argue that the minor child was an "enemy soldier" then the U.S. is bound to treat him as such under the Geneva Convention. The Geneva Convention declares it illegal for any government to recruit children under 15 (Kadhr was recruited at 14)

.

According to the "Optional Protocol on the Involvement of Children in Armed Conflict" (ratified in 2002 and to which the U.S. IS a signatory) "States Parties shall take all feasible measures to ensure that members of their armed forces who have not attained the age of 18 years do not take a direct part in hostilities. Non-state actors and guerrilla forces are forbidden from recruiting anyone under the age of 18 for any purpose."

http://treaties.un.org/Pages/ViewDetails.aspx?src=TREATY&mtdsg_no=IV-11-b&chapter=4〈=en

If he is a juvenile, being tried for a criminal offense, then he would have to be tried in Afghanistan, or extradited to the United States for trial in Washington, DC.

[Scairp]

49. Have you ever heard of Michael Crowe?

No? Go Google him and then come back and tell us all again how this young man confessed.:dunce:

[msanthrope]

51. Crowe was how old? 14? And Khadr was 24 when he stipulated. He had excellent counsel.

He's had nothing but praise for the Canadian lawyers he had.

Why do you gainsay him?

[msanthrope]

3. He pled guilty to murder. Of a medic. He shouldn't have thrown the grenade. nt

[EFerrari]

5. He didn't.

But according to lawyers who were present at the hearing, the case against him was unraveling as the trial proceeded. Unintentionally released U.S. military documents revealed that original reports said that Kadr was not the person who threw the grenade, and additional testimony by government witnesses has proven "unreliable".

snip

Canada's Prime Minister Stephen Harper has steadfastly refused to intervene in the Kadr case, and has declined to seek extradition to Canada while legal proceedings were ongoing. However, Rona told IPS that Canada and the U.S. are now reported to be discussing Khadr's possible repatriation to Canada.

"Whether this will happen and if so, under what conditions, is uncertain," he said.

According to recent reliable polling, 64 percent of Canadians have expressed the desire to have Kadr returned to Canada, and international and domestic organisations such as Amnesty International and the Canadian Bar Association have pressed the Conservative minority government to bring Kadr home.

http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=45685

[msanthrope]

15. Here is the stipulation he made to the court that he did, in fact, throw that grenade. Made in 2010

as an adult...read paragraph 42, where he stipulates that he knew he was not being attacked by Speer, but threw the grenade anyway.

http://media.miamiherald.com/smedia/2010/10/26/10/stip.source.prod_affiliate.56.pdf

It took Speer, a medic, 12 days to die.

[EFerrari]

19. And that has since been shown to be a bunch of bullshit.

But by all means, continue to spread it.

[msanthrope]

25. You are defaming his excellent and honorable defense counsel.

He signed that stipulation with a Canadian defense team. Are you suggesting that his Canadian lawyers perpetrated a fraud on the court?

Dennis Edney is not the type to perpetrate a fraud on the court, and frankly, I think it disgusting that you insult him. Kadhr himself, when he recently changed law firms, wrote of Edney,

"Although I feel deeply indebted to you for your dedication, changing counsel at this time is in my best interests," Khadr wrote in a typewritten notice he signed Aug. 3. "I have the highest praise and respect for you both."


Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/08/04/2345505/captive-omar-khadr-fires-canadian.html#ixzz1ZwY8eVSV


If Mr Kadhr has praise and respect for the defense team that oversaw his stipulation, who, exactly, are you to gainsay him?

[Downwinder]

8. If someone throws a grenade at you, are you going to sit on it?

[Kelvin Mace]

12. How do you come to that conclusion?

because of a confession under torture.

The testimony of soldiers on the scene doesn't support the government's case, and that evidence was never presented.

Even if he DID do this, under what part of U.S. statute or internal law is torture permitted?

[msanthrope]

14. From a plea agreement in 2010, made as an adult, in court. And he apologized to the widow.

Here's the stipulation of fact he presented to the court.

http://media.miamiherald.com/smedia/2010/10/26/10/stip.source.prod_affiliate.56.pdf

[Kelvin Mace]

37. *sigh*

OK, here is the deal. You plead guilty to something you didn't do, or we keep you locked up here FOREVER. We've already kept you here ten years, and tortured you to boot. So, sign the paper and make your life easy.

Tell me you wouldn't sign.

[msanthrope]

41. Um, no. I think Khadir was serious in his remorse to Speer's widow.

I think he realized he had done wrong.

You blithely accuse him of lying to the widow of the man he is accused of killing.

You accuse him of lying to a court.

It's entirely possible he is more honorable than that.

I'm sorry you think he is a liar.

[Kelvin Mace]

45. If I put you in prison for ten years

and told you that the only way you would ever leave alive was to confess and apologize, I am POSITIVE you would be a VERY convincing liar.

At this point, I am going to agree with an earlier poster about your refusal to argue in good faith, and anything vaguely like logic.

You damn sure have no idea what constitutes lawful interrogation.

[msanthrope]

50. Of course. You have super-secret evidence that Mr. Khadir is lying now, as opposed to before.

Of course. He's a liar.

[Kelvin Mace]

54. You dodged the point

25% of the people exonerated by the Innocence Project with DNA evidence "confessed" to the crimes they were accused. Some even offered "apologies" to the victims, or victim's families. Once DNA proved they could NOT have committed the crime, a thorough review of the case found exculpatory evidence suppressed, and confessions coerced via threats, lies, and abuse.

[gratuitous]

7. We are reliably informed by his captors that he's the worst of the worst

And we must believe it because as horrible as the cover story is, the alternative is even worse, and reflects oh-so-badly on the United States. So we comfort ourselves with the notion that at least we didn't execute Mr. Khadr, and expect him to be grateful for the privilege. For anyone with qualms about due process or cruel and unusual punishment, just zip it and accept the solemn assurances of the folks perpetrating this crime against humanity that it's all on the up and up.

[msanthrope]

17. He pled guilty, and got 8 years for the murder of a medic. I'm not crying in pity for him.

I think his sentence is just, given his age.

I hope he can make something of his life, and reflect on the fact that he killed a medic.

I hope he repudiates the hatefulness of his family.

[EFerrari]

21. Why ruin a perfect record. n/t

[vminfla]

30. Squandered his life at such a young age

To travel halfway around the world and take up arms for the sake of terrorism.

[msanthrope]

32. But he has a chance that other child victims do not have.

He will be out, soon. I hope he takes that and does right in his life.

I hope he repudiates the terrorism of his family--because they certainly put him in the soup.

[vminfla]

33. Omar Khadr is fortunate in that regard

Found on the field of combat, only to get a light sentence after killing a medic. He was probsbly given such a lenient sentence because prosecutors and the judge(s) believed that he could be rehabilitated and renounce his life of crime.

[msanthrope]

34. Think of John Lee Malvo. Not so fortunate. nt

[vminfla]

42. A Life sentence for Malvo was appropriate

Khadr's sentence was lenient.

[msanthrope]

53. I disagree. I think sentencing Malvo to life w/o parole was excessive.

I think juvenile defendants should not be subject to life w/o parole. I think there should be a chance for juvvie defendants to prove they have matured to the point of rehabilitation.

[vminfla]

59. Malvo was a serial killer

One could argue that Malvo was manipulated into being a serial killer. However, one cannot argue the fact that over a dozen people are dead because of his actions (or inactions if you believe the manipulation trope). Such danger to society warrants a life sentence. Some people are simply damaged beyond repair, even at a young age.

[Kelvin Mace]

9. I am deeply ashamed that this was done in my name

and I am enraged that Obama cut a deal to protect the people that ordered this.

This, above all else, is the reason I cannot and will not vote for him in 2012.

[Bandit]

11. when UN treaties decree underage combatants be treated as victims?

Sort of makes one really really proud of America doesn't it.. boy did we show him.....

[EFerrari]

23. I'm thinking that the children we are holding

is the reason Obama keeps suspending the penalties for using child soldiers.

Obama Waives Child Soldier Ban in Yemen and Congo

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/obama-waives-child-soldier-ban-yemen-congo/story?id=14663930

[msanthrope]

28. We had him because Canada didn't want him. They failed to ask for his extradition and

repatriation until recently.

Seriously--Canada didn't want their child soldier back, and the reasons behind that are linked to his terrorist family.

Blame Canada.

[Bandit]

35. Blame Canada because we violated International Treaty and did not treat the child as a victim?

Yep that's the ticket. It is Canada's fault we had to torture the child....

[msanthrope]

36. How was he tortured? Specifically, with reference to the 'International Treaty' you claim.

Are we signatories to said treaty????

[Bandit]

60. Did you even read the original post?

"Firstly, it asks, why did the US try a child, captured in Afghanistan aged 15, when UN treaties decree underage combatants be treated as victims? How reliable was a confession Khadr says was extracted under torture and, it emerged later, tacit threats of gang rape?"

[EFerrari]

24. Dupe

[Solly Mack]

13. K&R