Darrell Issa Subpoenas Eric Holder Over 'Fast And Furious' Gun Operation

[Freddie Stubbs]

Source: Huffington Post

House Oversight and Government Reform Committee Chairman Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) Wednesday issued a subpoena to Attorney General Eric Holder, Jr. and other Justice Department officials over the agency's controversial gun-trafficking operation, dubbed "Operation Fast And Furious."

"Top Justice Department officials, including Attorney General Holder, know more about Operation Fast and Furious than they have publicly acknowledged," said Issa in a statement. The subpoena asks for communications between Holder and DoJ officials. Issa has already issued a subpoena for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

The operation, which began in November 2009, watched "straw buyers" of guns in border states hand over guns to middlemen who, in turn, transferred the guns to Mexican drug cartels. However, ATF agents let over 2,000 guns "walk," and the guns ended up at crime scenes on both sides of the border, including one where Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry was murdered.

Holder testified in May that he had known about the program for only a few weeks, while Republicans say that memos show he knew of the program as early as July 2010.

Read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/12/darrell-issa-subpoena-eric-holder-fast-furious-guns_n_1006876.html

[Proud Liberal Dem]

1. Does this have any legs?

:shrug:

[naaman fletcher]

2. well,

It's very clear that Holder lied his ass off. However I have no idea how this will play out.

[rayofreason]

5. If Holder lied...

...it will play out badly.

[SoapBox]

7. Speaking of lying, cheating, stealing...Issa is a poster child for that!

Issa is as sleazy and dirty as they come.

What a joke that he would do this.

[rayofreason]

8. Then prosecute.

But that will not change what the OP reports. The fact remains that Holder testified under oath, and if can be shown that he lied during that testimony, there will be trouble. That does not mean that there should not be trouble elsewhere as a result of separate investigations surrounding other allegations. Those would be independent matters. However, be careful of what you wish for. The precedent of a DOJ launching a prosecution of a Chair of a Congressional Committee investigating possible wrongdoing and perjury by the AJ is a double edged sword given that there will certainly be a future time when there will be a republican president and a democratic house.

[S_B_Jackson]

27. Was Holder under oath when he gave testimony?

I don't ask this rhetorically....If you'll recall Bush administration officials fought having to testify under oath before Congressional panels held by Democratic-chaired committees. the reason being that if the lie occurs without being under oath, then it's not actionable.

This isn't to say that Eric Holder's conduct vis-a-vis Fast and Furious isn't reprehensible, but as the Rethuglicans so often point out, "we are a nation of laws"........

[rayofreason]

29. Yes...

...Holder testified under oath.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/185861-white-house-defends-holder-fast-and-furious-guns-lied

If he lied, he is screwed.

[certainot]

17. the difference is issa has 1000 radio stations at his back- they pushed this into an issue and

even if he didn't want to do this the pressure generated by those radio blowhards repeating and repeating all over the country for weeks, even though bush people started this, is what makes the incredible republican double standards possible.

[totodeinhere]

22. Agreed, but if Holder lied, and I don't believe he did, but if he did it wouldn't matter

whether Issa is "lying, cheating, stealing" or not. Holder could still be in trouble.

[No Elephants]

34. Lying is one thing, and for many Republicans, a way of life thing. However, lying during testimony

given to Congress is perjury and we no doubt all remember that Rethugs distinguish sharply between their every day, garden variety lying and a Democrat's perjuring himself.

One is the norm, and the other is an impeachable offense.

Besides, Republicans don't intend what they say to be taken as factual statements, so it's not really lying to begin with, anyway.

[certainot]

16. would you explain and provide proof that holder "lied his ass off"- i heard it started w/bush

and that the bush admin started this program.

[No Elephants]

35. The issue is not "Who started this program?" This issue is "When did Holder learn of this program?"

If he learned of it when he testified he learned of it, or later, no problem. If he learned of it sooner, he has a perjury problem.

For the AG of the U.S., a perjury problem would be a very BIG problem.

Every lawyer is an "officer of the court."

[certainot]

45. your standard only applies to dems

and they can declare it is perjury and make it so, even if it isn't

until the same standard applies to all these are ridiculous debates

[wordpix]

30. It's getting legs: "Did Attorney General Holder Lie to Congress?" (another article)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/adam-winkler/did-attorney-general-hold_b_1007235.html

snip:
The committee is trying to get to the bottom of "Fast and Furious," a scandal-plagued operation involving the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives ("ATF") that allowed at least 2,000 high-powered guns to be sold illegally to couriers who delivered the guns to drug cartels. No effort was made to keep track of the guns or intercept them before they fell into the wrong hands. Some of the guns have turned up at crime scenes, including the murder of a U.S. Border Agent. snip

Article also explains Fast and Furious started under Bush: "Ever since the administration of George W. Bush, who began the larger gun sting operation known as "Project Gunrunner," of which Fast and Furious was just one part, the operation has been rife with mismanagement and controversy. In 2006, ATF lost track of approximately 450 guns. " snip

For some reason, I'm smelling a rat that could have something to do with the NRA.

[librechik]

3. you mean the boondoggle Bush started and Issa signed off on?

What an ass.

[sweetapogee]

4. here is the big question...

from the OP: "Holder testified in May that he had known about the program for only a few weeks, while Republicans say that memos show he knew of the program as early as July 2010."

[librechik]

12. here is an even bigger question

why did Holder refuse to prosecute Cheney for war crimes after it bacame clear we have diplomatic treaties that compel him to? Why were the USAs not replaced when Obama took office as is customary?

I think Holder was a piss-poor choice for the context, and if he gets nailed for lying I will not be surprised. And if Obama is thinking this will make him look bad he ought to think about replacing Holder, not doubling down on his defense.

[sweetapogee]

24. do you think

if Holder had prosecuted Cheney that we wouldn't be looking at a possible fiasco over this gun program?

[librechik]

25. no, I'm just being hyperbolic. Cheney is my pet peeve.

Don't think Cheney had all that much to do with the F&F program, and Obama can't replace the entire FBI. It's likely he didn't even know about the operation until it was already a fiasco.

[Roy Rolling]

6. Investigation tit-for-tat

Perhaps the DOJ should get off their ass and investigate why a sitting congressman can request earmarks that pay for improvements to commercial properties owned by the Congressman.

[tularetom]

10. Keep that sumbitch so busy defending his crooked actions

he won't have time to subpoena anything.

Why don't the Democrats learn how to play the game? I have no use for Holder. He won't lift a finger to investigate the misdeeds of the Bush administration among other things, and if he is culpable in Fast and Furious he should be out on his ass yesterday.

But just a few moves made in Issa's direction would shut up that douchebag.

[No Elephants]

36. Yeah, I daydream sometimes, too.

[msongs]

9. Dems only issued "invitations" & sternly worded letters - repubs issue subpoenas nt

[SoapBox]

11. Funny...and oh so true.

Spine? We're looking for some Spine for the Dems? Anyone see a Spine?

[Freddie Stubbs]

15. Not funny because it is not true:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18308547/ns/politics/t/house-panel-approves-subpoena-rice/#.TpXYipsr2so

[SoapBox]

19. The article is from 2007...it's ancient history.

And it would appear that she is still walking around.

So what does that have to do with most Dems needing a spine?

[No Elephants]

38. Are you implying that one subpoena to Rice disproves msongs post?

If so, that implication is silly.

BTW, how did that Rice subpoena work out?

[Freddie Stubbs]

14. You are incorrect:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18308547/ns/politics/t/house-panel-approves-subpoena-rice/#.TpXYipsr2so

[No Elephants]

37. I don't understand your post. Why would TPTB want to discredit Republicans?

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[struggle4progress]

18. Earlier ATF gun operation ‘Wide Receiver’ used same tactics as ‘Fast and Furious’

By Sari Horwitz, Published: October 6

... Operation Wide Receiver came to light when Rep. Darryl Issa (R-Calif.) and Sen. Charles E. Grassley (R-Iowa) released new documents and e-mails this week which they said showed that although Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. told Congress in May that he had just learned about Fast and Furious, he had known for about 10 months.

That alleged discrepancy led some Republican lawmakers to accuse Holder of perjury. They have pounded on Holder over Fast and Furious, in some cases calling for his resignation.Their investigation of the program has led to the reassignment of the former ATF director and others, and the resignation of the U.S. attorney in Arizona.

But Wide Receiver, conducted in the Bush administration, has not received a lot of attention. According to Justice spokeswoman Tracy Schmaler, some of the e-mails used in the attempt to discredit Holder were referring to the Tucson case, Wide Receiver.

More specifically, Schmaler said that when the e-mails mention “guns walking,” they are referring to the 2006-07 Tucson case, Operation Wide Receiver. Schmaler said neither of the officials knew about guns walking in the Fast and Furious case ...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/earlier-atf-gun-operation-wide-receiver-used-same-tactics-as-fast-and-furious/2011/10/06/gIQAuRHIRL_story.html

[wordpix]

31. so whether it's F&F or Wide Receiver, the big question is why were the guns allowed to walk?

Hundreds or thousands of guns just walk into Mexican drug cartels, thanks to the ATF which doesn't track them? Huh? What is REALLY going on here?

[No Elephants]

39. What does that have to do with whether Holder perjured himself about

when he knew about Fast and Furious?

We can post from here to Nirvana about every bad program started on Bushco, whether or not they also involved firearms in some way. None of those posts, however, would be relevant to whether Holder perjured himself.

[wordpix]

42. it's relevant in that the repugs might find they're stepping in their own doodoo

big time, of their own making, instead of being the white knights out to save the nation from the big bad Dems.

[struggle4progress]

44. On my reading, the WaPo article says Holder gave Congress emails showing

he had known about SOME gun-running program somewhat earlier than the time he told Congress he had learned about THE particular gun-running program they had asked him about: if Holder told Congress he had learned about a ONE program at a certain time but knew about ANOTHER program earlier, that's not perjury

[BetterThanNoSN]

20. This outta be good...

..now its time for the dirtbag Republicans to eat shit as they all encouraged BushCo to ignore those subpoenas handed down to Karl Rove and the rest of them in the US attorney scandal. Whether Holder is guilty is immaterial to me, hope these Repugs get nowhere because this is what they brought on themselves.

[wordpix]

33. repugs are already finding out the guns walked during the BushCo years but

they're lying their asses off anyway, saying it happened during Obama's admin.

[No Elephants]

40. "Whether Holder is guilty is immaterial to me," Too bad.

[BetterThanNoSN]

47. Whats too bad...

is that Republicans care nothing about justice. When they start acting like humane people with a moral compass, i'll start caring about their accusations.

[greiner3]

21. And who doubts the NRA is behind this crap?

And I'm not talking of Roosevelt's program.

[slackmaster]

26. Which crap are you referring to?

The lawless operation by the BATFE that resulted in innocent people being killed, or the politically motivated effort to make a big scandal out of it?

[wordpix]

32. The NRA is involved in letting ATF guns walk to Mexican cartels? I can't piece that together

[No Elephants]

41. How did the NRA force Holder to tell Congress that he knew about the program only a few weeks?

[Plucketeer]

23. If ANYONE were to be the poster child

for what's wrong in DC, it would have to be ISSA. He should be prosecuted for wasting the oxygen he uses! :grr:

[No Elephants]

43. Issa's a pig, and not a cute muppet one, either. But what does that have

to do with whether Holder lied to Congress?

I think that the Attorney General's perjuring himself to Congress (allegedly) is also symptomatic of what is wrong with government. So is rationalizing ignoring the Rule of Law whenever the Chief Executive finds it convenient to ignore same.

It's not really O.K.I.Y.A.R. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday_Night_Massacre


And the same goes for O.K.I.Y.A.D.

[Plucketeer]

48. I just HATE Issa

whatever the circumstances.

[AverageJoe90]

46. Somehow I feel Holder might be being set up.

Fact is, the GOP's been wanting to destroy this president administration for a while now.

[gateley]

28. Just caught the end of this on CNN and came here to find out

what was going on. All I caught was "X (I forget the name) stated that nobody had said that Holder had been briefed.

As always, we'll have to wait and see. :shrug:

[BlueIris]

49. Holder is going down.

I would say good luck, but I hope he crashes and burns, and takes this steaming pile of a Justice Department with him.

[red dog 1]

50. DOJ Lied To American Public Over Gang Stalking Figures From 2009 Survey

In 2009, the Justice Department issued a Special Report "Stalking Victimization in the United States"(Pub # NCJ 224527)

In this 2009 survey, DOJ estimated the number of stalking victims who reported multiple stalkers to be in excess of 180,000 during the 12 month study period.

Freedom Of Information Act documents prove that DOJ deliberately under-estimated the number of stalking victims reporting multiple stalkers during the 12 month study period

The actual number of stalking victims reporting multiple stalkers during the 12 month study period is probably in excess of 600,000, more than three times the figure estimated by DOJ.
http://www.nowpublic.com/world/gang-stalking-new-doj-foia-documents-prove-doj-knows-truth/