New York Protest Square to Be 'Temporarily Cleared:' Mayor

[Hissyspit]

Source: AFP

New York protest square to be ‘temporarily cleared’: mayor

By Agence France-Presse
Wednesday, October 12, 2011
 
NEW YORK — The small Manhattan square occupied by anti-Wall Street protestors for almost four weeks will be temporarily cleared for cleaning on Friday, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg said.

Bloomberg went to the protest site, where several hundred people are camped out, to explain the move, which would be the first time the demonstrators are asked to leave, the mayor’s office said.

Bloomberg said the owners of the plaza wanted to exercise their duty in cleaning it — and that this was their right, although protestors would be allowed back immediately.

“Mayor Bloomberg went to Zuccotti Park to talk with the protesters himself and inform them that on Friday morning Brookfield Properties will clean the park,” a statement from deputy mayor for operations Cas Holloway said.

Read more: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/12/new-york-protest-square-to-be-temporarily-cleared-mayor

[Matariki]

1. Maybe friday should be "Occupy Mayor Bloomberg's Home"

or Rupert Murdoch's home

[spotbird]

35. The remote spying devices were insufficient,

they need to plant something more local. At best their intention is to gather enough information that they will be able to divide the protesters and undermine the movement. It only goes downhill from there.

Occupy Bloomberg while the park is cleaned up is a perfect idea. A better idea is to occupy a different park after the cleanup.

[Poll_Blind]

2. Maybe I'm a sucker, but the fact that Bloomberg went down there in person to explain...

...makes me believe he is being authentic.

That's just my take.

PB

[Me.]

3. Not Me

I consider him a liar and cheat and can't wait until this little Napoleon is outta here. I don't trust him an inch.

[Poll_Blind]

4. I don't have much of an opinion on Bloomberg either way- he just doesn't figure into most of the...

..news I follow. You think he's not trustworthy on this point? (I'm really asking your opinion, I don't really have much to draw on, myself)

PB

[Me.]

12. No I Don't

This is the guy who. even though the residents of this city had voted for and put in place, term limits, struck/rigged a deal with the city council which nullified that vote. Then after he won a razor thin race after spending half a bil against a dem who had very little money, the mayor went on to say that term limits should be put in place. Now bear in mind, just days after 9/11 there was to be an election for mayor and Guiliani made it known he wanted a third term and was told no, despite being viewed very favorably at the time. Bloomberg totally ignores what the people of the city want, as in the schools chancellor/Cathy Black debacle, and does what he wants. Just days ago he was saying we needed to help the bankers who are going to get a huge tax break at the end of this years. He is a terrible autocrat who has a strong penchant towards being nanny in chief. I don't know what will happen tomorrow but I worry for OWS.

[Poll_Blind]

16. I thank you for taking the time to type that up!

I was dimly aware of issues surrounding his third term but thanks for the extra information. I guess my thoughts mirror your last sentence: "I don't know what will happen tomorrow but I worry for OWS."

PB

[pnorman]

28. I agree with you!

n/t

[spotbird]

36. He genuinely wants them out of there for a while,

if that's authenticity, then you're right.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

47. Well: Kelly: Protesters Won't Be Able to Bring Sleeping Bags Back Into Park After Cleanup

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Zuccotti-Park-Wall-Street-Protest-Bloomberg-Kelly-131796173.html

[sam11111]

5. possibly? - offer mayor "OWS people in half of park while clean other half,then people reoccupy

cleaned half while you clean that remaining half. Then reoccupy all. "

[DLnyc]

39. Good idea.

Or, maybe better, let the people in the park clean it themselves. They will do a much better job than Michaels pals will.

[DLnyc]

40. oops, self delete duplicate

[Fire Walk With Me]

6. DO NOT TRUST, DO NOT WANT

They've waged a very visible war of brutality and attrition from day one. They tricked 700+ people into an arrest zone. They told Bologna to stay quiet until it all washes over. Fool me twice, shame on me.

How much easier for them to roll out an orange net around the park and station 50 cops, versus the millions they're spending (already admitted having spent $2 million)?

[Iliyah]

9. OWS is not being paid for

by the corporations who paid for the Tea Brats and ran it with the corporate media as being American.

We are America!

[Fire Walk With Me]

17. Update from #OWS:

http://www.politicususa.com/en/occupy-wall-street-liberty-plaza

On their Twitter feed, Occupy Wall Street has called the claim that the protesters must leave in order for the park to be cleaned a “pretext” for the removal of the protesters, and then they pointed out that the rules that the property owners want the city to enforce on the campers were put into place after people started camping out in the park.

The Occupy Wall Street organizers then came up with a plan. They are organizing a campaign to clean up the park, before the Friday deadline. Occupy Wall Street is asking people to donate, brooms, lots of brooms, mops, squeegees, buckets, waste bins, dust pans, trash bags, and they could use some power washers too. People can either bring the needed supplies to Liberty Plaza, or send them to their shipping address.

This is the perfect response to the Brookfield letter, which gives off the vibe of being a cheap attempt to get the protesters out. If the protesters clean up the park, then their removal will no longer be necessary. Plus, cleaning up the park is the right thing to do.

[dkf]

20. If they haven't been cleaning up after themselves that is kind of rude anyway.

[Hissyspit]

46. Kind of rude?

It's a protest action, not a pot luck dinner.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

21. agreed

They should get lots of press there too.

[joeglow3]

34. So, they admit they are fucking pigs trashing other people property

Honestly, I thought it was bullshit when people claimed they were trashing the place. Sounds like they are now admitting they have trashed it. Flat out disgusting. Hopefully, this opens their eyes to the fact that not only should they want to not trash the environment, they should, at a minimum, do so to avoid giving people something to divert from the true meaning.

[Hissyspit]

41. "fucking pigs?"

It's a huge amount of people in a very small place without amenities.

What areYOU doing to try to change this disaster of a new Gilded Age we are living on.

[joeglow3]

44. Are you kidding me?

Is your argument that if we cannot find a trash can, it is suddenly okay to then just throw shit on the ground?

[Hissyspit]

45. No. It's not my argument.

The general assembly at the park has has set up systems for dealing with the unusual and extreme living conditions a huge amount of people of difffeeent stripes have found themselves in in a protest situation. Whether it is workable over time is questionable, but it is, after all, an occupation.

My argument is you have no business calling them fucking pigs.

[Hissyspit]

48. Some protesters say they’ve gone to great lengths to keep the park clean. 'I think the...'"

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/10/13/mayor-michael-bloomberg-says-zuccotti-park-will-be-cleaned-up-friday/?src=twtny

Some protesters say they’ve gone to great lengths to keep the park clean.

“I think the mayor and some of his ‘clonies’ are trying to use tactics to get us to move out of the park,” one demonstrator told 1010 WINS’ John Montone.

“There’s a lot of stuff we wouldn’t have to clean up if the city provided basic human rights, like a Port-A-Potty,” said demonstrator Gene Wagner. “If you would’ve given us a Port-A-Potty 30 days ago, we would’ve maintained it ourselves.”

“This is a protest; it’s not a camping area. People aren’t camping here, they’re protesting and we have the right to have sleeping bags. Where are they gonna sleep? How are they gonna protest? Without sleeping bags, they can’t protest,” one demonstrator told 1010 WINS’ Stan Brooks

[joeglow3]

50. Seems to confirm what I said

The protestors are saying it is not their fault because trash cans and toilets were not provided to them. Thus, I ask again, are you saying if I can't find a trash can/toilet next to me, it is okay to throw trash/take a shit wherever I want?

[Hissyspit]

51. I would give it up. With all due respect, as far as I'm concerned, calling them "fucking pigs"

is garbage.

[joeglow3]

53. To me, people who piss & shit on the ground and throw their trash everywhere ARE...

...fucking pigs, regardless of if I agree with their message or not.

[Hissyspit]

55. Well, it's nice to know which side you are on, and that if you ever took it upon yourself to launch

a massive national civil disobedience action out of nothing but a few people who are willing to face up to police and potentially even SWAT that you would be nice and tidy about it.

"Whatever happens tomorrow, the whole world will be watching the New York authorities try to clean the people of America off the sidewalks of Wall Street.

You knew this was coming. After realising that pepper spraying a few peaceful protesters wouldn't make you go away, they've been trying to evict you for weeks, and the pretext that Bloomberg and the NYPD have finally found is that Occupy Wall Street is 'unsanitary' - full of rubbish, attracting rodents. Anyone who has been to the Plaza and seen the water filtration system you've built and watched volunteers from across the city sweeping the sidewalks and handing round the antiseptic gel knows what nonsense that is."

[joeglow3]

57. It's nice to know you throw out all convictions and tolerate anything if they agree with you

I never said anything about their message (which I agree 100% with). I just said they are fucking pigs and it is clear from your post that you know they are, as you spent all your time trying to justify why it is okay.

[Hissyspit]

58. Oh, bullshit.

No justification at all to call them "fucking pigs." Sounds WAY too much like a "dirty stinking hippies" Bill O'Reilly-talking point.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2114138

The Sanitation Working Group has been addressing the concerns in your letter all along. Beyond that, it has committed itself to carrying out a thorough and complete cleaning and to addressing all of the issues related to sanitation raised in your letter. The Working Group welcomes representatives of Brookfield to view the cleaning process and its results.

Our investigation has revealed that no permanent structures have been erected within the Park, nor have any actions been taken to damage the Park, its plantings or other amenities. Your letter raises concerns about potential water infiltration of the Park’s underground lighting and electrical hazards. However, based on a visual inspection recently conducted by our clients, there has been no damage to the lenses covering the underground lighting and thus there is no risk of water infiltration. Additionally, it is our understanding that there has been no electricity running in said fixtures for weeks now. Therefore, there is no risk of electrical hazard.

The Working Group will continue to bag and haul trash on a tight schedule. Trash has consistently been bagged and hauled to established collection points and recycling rules have been bagged and hauled to established collection points and recycling rules have been strictly adhered to. The Working Group has been using primarily 50 gallon, 3 mil. thickness contractor bags. Additionally, the Working Group typically has had between one and fifteen people sweeping the Park with brooms at any given time.

The Sanitation Working Group has informed us that the following activities are being carried out to further address these issues.

1.) All hard surfaces within the Park are being scrubbed and/or polished
2.) Garbage removal will be stepped up
3.) Every item resting on the ground will be removed to allow for thorough cleaning; and
4.) Power washing will be employed where appropriate or possible.

Our clients are willing to sit down with you to resolve any of your concerns. They want to negotiate in good faith. Our clients agree to address any reasonable issues of sanitation safety and access and would like to prevent these issues from creating a pretext for police action in violation of our client’s First Amendment rights to utilize the Park. If you nonetheless decide to proceed with your request for police action, prior court approval is required.

It's a public space, privately maintained in exchange for the owners being giving waivers on building regulations. Large-scale groups of the public meeting in public spaces always result in organizational issues, MORE SO when it is a impromptu protest action. I have not at all acknowledged any proof of behavior that I thought warranted a description of "fucking pigs." And I have done nothing to indicate that I was throwing out any of my convictions, much less all of them.

Your terminology was completely inappropriate.

[red dog 1]

49. YOU are a fucking pig!

1) Probably the only ones who "trashed the place" were the paid thugs (who may or may not be Cointelpro), but who were sent in there to cause trouble, and make the peaceful OWS protesters look bad.

2) Not only are YOU a fucking pig, so are the cops of the "Paid Detail Unit", who pepper sprayed non-violent, peaceful protesters, and who are being paid by the Wall Street corporations, and indemnified by the taxpayers.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/10/10/financial-giants-put-new-york-city-cops-on-their-payroll/

[No Elephants]

7. Anything to break the momentum. When they reconvene there, will the numbers be

greater or fewer? I can guaranty the number won't be the same.

The protestors from out of town could probably use a shower by now, though

With all the homeless people we do nothing to help, I always thought cities should should build a combination public showers and john facility, plus laundromat.

We should do more, of course, but, inasmuch as we don't, we should do at least that much.

[obxhead]

8. Somehow I think this will end badly. nt

[Iliyah]

11. Maybe for you

not us.

[obxhead]

32. Really?

I just don't see this temporary shutdown having good ending results. Some will probably fight it and then the police will fight them and it could be a situation that deteriorates rapidly ending in a bad result.

But that's NEVER happened at a protest from either side has it. :eyes:

[PatrynXX]

27. almost always does

St Paul did, course the media never covered all the quick releases of people... after the furor died down. but this is a bit bigger. st paul was an all out riot provoked by people who supposedly were there to prevent one.

[dkf]

10. It's private property. The owners are allowing people to protest there.

I hope OWS is going to be nice about this.

[Iliyah]

13. And the tea brats were?

I'm tire of these posters. March on as MLK did.

[dkf]

19. Well if they were moving on it wouldn't be a problem.

If it becomes less than sanitary and someone gets sick they may even be liable.

[leftynyc]

29. That's our yardstick?

What the fucking teabaggers do? If the protesters are not cleaning up after themselves (which is disgusting enough for those who work and live down there), then they should let the owners/city do it.

[spotbird]

37. They're not really occupiers if they leave upon request.

Is it a public park? If so the protesters are its owners. We hear that shit all the time from the right.."I will not pay to feed that poor person with my tax dollars ( Insert other idiocy here, the list is endless.)..."

If each person has an absolute right to claim ownership of every aspect of government, then the protesters should be allowed the same luxury.

[dkf]

42. No it's privately owned. That is the point.

[spotbird]

54. The deed requires public access,

the city maintains the area.

[999998th word]

14. I think the plaza owners have a different definition of 'clean'

than we do.:nuke:

[Fire Walk With Me]

24. They'll certainly pick nits and make claims...

[999998th word]

15. Also the 'owners' have been 'freeped'- Daily Kos info.

Sorry I can't post link. Ignorance is NOT bliss, RE: tech issues and me.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

18. the deal stinks to high hell, or is an outright trap.

Maybe Bloomberg should put up some collateral in 'good faith'. Then again, the 1% never relinquish anything without a fight neither should the occupiers. Impose new rules AFTER the occupation ends.

[Seedersandleechers]

22. Among new rules posted at the park are a ban on sleeping bags and other camping paraphernalia.

WTF. Ban on sleeping bags? Bloomberg is being slick and trying to put one over on OWS. Don't leave or trust Bloomberg.

[1776Forever]

23. I went to the "new" OccupyWallSt: link and there were only 40 people on it.

I had posted the new link on DU but got little response. I still don't think people know they tried to get this site up just for them. I wanted to see what they were saying about the "cleaning". Here is the link:

http://www.livestream.com/occupywallstnyc?utm_source=website-channel-page&utm_medium=related

The Global Revolution site is from all around the world and they do still have NYC on also at times:

http://www.livestream.com/globalrevolution?utm_source=lsplayer&utm_medium=embed&utm_campaign=footerlinks

[On the Road]

25. Now If Bloomberg Were a Real New Yorker,

he would mandate alternate-side-of-the-street protesting on Tuesdays and Thursdays from 9:30-11:30 AM.

[unionworks]

26. you know damn well

Once they get them out they won't let them back in

[border_town]

30. Didn't they pull this in WI?

They said they needed to clean the state house and the people would be able to get back in, but that was a lie. People were climbing through windows when they realized what was really going on. I know Mayor Bloomberg is not Scott Walker, but I feel a little uneasy. I hope he keeps his word.

[lynne]

31. A real catch-22

If its private property, OWS is there at the good graces of the owner as it is. OWS could lose use of the property entirely if they don't clear out to allow for clean-up. Not to mention it wouldn't look good, would convey a wrong message, and could be grounds for future property owners to not allow OWS or any other occupy group to use private property.

IMO, its a risk OWS will have to take as they could lose it all if they don't.

[dkf]

43. It would make them look like they don't respect private property.

Some might not love capitalism but I think they still like the idea that they can own property.

[slackmaster]

33. That's code language, and we all know what it means.

[tavalon]

38. Really, Mayor Bloomberg, really?

[and-justice-for-all]

52. That is unconstitutional and a violation of civil rights...

the right to assemble and protest the government.

[bigworld]

56. yeah but it is private property.

That's the rub.

[Hissyspit]

59. It's a public space.

It goes back to the 1962 laws. Owners of 1 Liberty were allowed to build more stories in exchange for creating a privately maintained public space. They are on shaky ground telling the public they can't use it.

[and-justice-for-all]

60. Thank You!! nt

[Hosnon]

61. Time, place, and manner restrictions exist regarding the 1st Amendment.

And they are constitutional.

Without them, one person or group can effectively shut down the rights of others. For example, the KKK (if big enough) could camp out and protest 24/7 in the major gathering areas (e.g., Zucotti).

Also, the 1st can bump up against other rights, such as the right to privacy. Protesters generally cannot protest outside private residences even if the street is public.