Bush Declines to Condemn Israeli Attack

[wicket]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040519/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_mideast_6

President Bush (news - web sites) on Wednesday declined to condemn the deadly attack on Palestinian demonstrators by Israeli military forces, saying he had not yet spoken to Israeli leaders. The president urged "restraint" by both Israel and Palestinians.

"I continue to urge restraint," Bush told reporters following a Cabinet meeting in the Roosevelt Room. "It is essential that people respect innocent life in order for us to achieve peace."

The demonstrators in Rafah, Gaza Strip (news - web sites), were protesting against the Israeli invasion of a neighboring refugee camp. Hospital officials say at least 10 Palestinians — all children and teens — were killed.

------------------------------------------

I'm so mad I can't offer any coherent commentary right now. :grr::grr::grr::grr::grr::grr:

[CulturalNomad]

1. Sharon is a 'man of peace' remember

Bushspeak: Sharon = man of peace, Palestinian deaths = pacification!

[Alerter_]

39. until the Israel/Palestine issue is solved

we will never have peace on earth, nor in the US. The world's number one political problem.

[Freddie Stubbs]

I'm sure that Kerry will be quick to denounce it

[CulturalNomad]

3. LOL

the Kerry difference: Sharon is sometimes a man of peace!

[IA_Seth]

13. "I'm sure that Kerry will be quick to denounce it"

My God he better.

I do not understand how we as a nation sit by while this sort of thing takes place.

I am beyond 'outrage' at this point. How hypocritical is a nation such as ours that lets this happen?

[LeftIsBest]

30. I bet you Kerry doesn't come out and directly denounce it

without also denouncing Palestinians. Our support for this Israeli administration is disgusting. Kerry is a chicken, remember folks he still hasn't said he's against the Iraq war. He just comes up with fantasies to get all these other nations involved so that they can alleviate the burden on our troops and tax payers.

Not going to happen, no one wants a piece of Iraq the way it is right now.

[jonnyblitz]

61. LOL...right. n/t

[qanda]

2. Why do we sanction this type of behavior

It's wrong regardless of who does it. We lose our moral authority when we sit by and watch crimes against humanity take place and won't even bother to condemn it as being wrong.

[NeoConsSuck]

18. And killing 40+ Iraqi's at a wedding party..

most of them women & children, is any different??

Incidents like this will continue to happen as long as Bush & Sharon are still breathing.

[crossroads]

32. Damage control *spin*... they weren't - wedding party,... were insurgents!

Yeah, Riiight! Women and children fired first? Give us a break! I believe that BS, NOT!
:eyes:

[Jim__]

4. Very few American politicians will condemn any Israeli action

It's just more evidence that our politicians are for sale.

[CulturalNomad]

7. Craven

[Just Me]

5. Why would a war criminal condemn a war crime by a comrade? n/t

[calimary]

6. That's pretty funny, george.

"I continue to urge restraint," Bush told reporters following a Cabinet meeting in the Roosevelt Room. "It is essential that people respect innocent life in order for us to achieve peace."

[CulturalNomad]

8. to achieve piece - piece of real estate and/or piece of the oil action

[Just Me]

9. The video is heartbreaking. I broke into tears.

I just wanted to pull a blanket over my head and go to sleep and hope that what I am witnessing is merely a nightmare that will end when I wake up.

:cry:

[Tellurian]

10. Israel is a considered a preferred client because of it's purchasing power

Just think how much money is spent with the USA on war armaments and weapons.

Israel is Bush's best customer.

[rebellious woman]

15. As the ME is Israels best customer and China, ask them about the

Iran/Contra deals and who was the middle men in
those deals..ask them about China, Russia, Central
South Americas,,,best arms dealers in the world and
where do they get those arms? Three guesses and
the first don't count..However; Saudi's do hold
number one for arms bought. interesting what one
learns.

[Buns_of_Fire]

28. Purchasing power = the $3 Billion or so a year the US gives them

in foreign aid and loan guarantees -- a significant part of which Israel turns around and uses to purchase military supplies from US suppliers -- who then turn around and use part of those profits to contribute to slimeballs like boosh* -- who then turn around...

I'm currently trying to negotiate a deal with my local food store, saying that if they'll give me $5,000 a year, I promise to buy at least $3,750 worth of my groceries (75%) from them. So far, they haven't responded. :shrug:

http://www.hotpolitics.com/tax4israel.htm

[vpigrad]

11. And the NRA celebrates...

Their donors sell a lot of a lot of equipment to Israel. Just follow the money. Gun owners in this country not only make it much safer for us to even sit at home, but they're making it more dangerous for others in other parts of the world.

[swinney]

12. Israel the King of Slaughter of Innocents-shades of Saddam

God of old Testament

Points----
1.No suicide bombers until-

a.Gorby released jewish emigres who moved to Israel
b. no room for them.
c. built settlements on West Bank(palestinian Property)
d. dynamited Palestinian homes for settlements.
e.young people started protesting on streets of West Bank(palestinian property).
f.Israeli soldiers starting killing the -stick and stone hurlers.
g.tv cameras removed so we could not see slaughter of young kids.
h. my old memory is probably wrong but I recall the number was over 600 KIDS who had been slaughtered for WMD(stick and stones).
i. suicide bombers--relatives of small kids slaughtered in their home neighborhoods.
j. Gaza--7,000 Jews & 1 Million Palestinians. Why are the Jews on foreign property?

Key---jews go home. get off foreign territory and stop pretending it belongs to you.

Get off the Land of others. Go Home. Kabish?

[gasperc]

14. the wedding bombing wasn't complete in north Iraq

oh well, sounds like they finished, I guess Bush can condem the Israili killing

[Nlighten1]

16. The Israeli Army kills women and children but its "OK"

Stay the course!

[wicket]

19. moral relativism

The right-wing likes to accuse the left of being moral relativists, but they are moral relativists when it comes to the actions of Israel!

[Just Me]

69. This action is simply NOT relative,...

,...there is no excuse!!!!

[maddezmom]

17. "continue to urge restraint", but if you can't hey it's okay,

that's the message bush is sending to the Arab world.... :mad:

[maddezmom]

55. thanks bush* : Israel Vows No Let-Up in Gaza, 33 Palestinians Die

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=574&ncid=721&e=1&u=/nm/20040519/wl_nm/mideast_dc

[rebellious woman]

20. Remember the "killing fields"?

[AlCzervik]

21. After his speech to AIPAC

and the helicopter attack on the iraqi wedding i'm not surprised at all he's not condemning it. what will not surprise me is when other nations start to condemn us.

[Just Me]

70. I missed that. n/t

[The Stranger]

22. So much for people claiming that only Palestinian suicide bombers

target innocents. This was basically the same thing as an Israeli suicide bombing against the Palestinians, except that it was executed without the suicide bomber.

[fryguy]

23. at the risk of incurring the ire of people here...

and in no way intending to defend smirk's comments or condone the actions of the IDF, its worth noting that this is a developing story and taking assertions from either side as being the whole story is inappropriate and impetuous - IMO. chimp said he would not condemn the attack until there was clarification of what occurred. he's an absolute moron, but i don't think it is an unreasonable thing to do instead of leaping to conclusions based on partial information.

[Malikshah]

41. Or in other words

When a suitable "explanation" can rationalize the killing of the protestors.

Sorry-- that doesn't wash.

The names of those killed today and yesterday have yet to make it into the media. They are just nameless "beings"-- nothing to see here, move along.

The death of Palestinian civilians can be analyzed and excused, it appears.

No ire, from me-- just dismay.

[Just Me]

44. It's not really an analysis so much as it is "rationalization",...

a "rationalization" by those who must excuse "murderous" acts,...

,...and,...I may not know their names,...but I saw those children's faces,...and it hurt.

It hurt to view such injury and pain inflicted upon human beings,...young human beings,...who just want the opportunity to experience something good, something better.

[Malikshah]

47. Unfortunately

To much of the world, they don't see anything, not the faces, not the tears. They just don't care.

I wish folks would realize that the blood that flows is just as red, and the tears that are shed are just as hot.

[fryguy]

48. you miss my point

I never used the word excuse or explanation. I was saying that leaping to preconceived conclusions (i.e. if there's death in Israel or the territories, Israel is assigned full blame) is not useful in situations such as these.

IMO - What is needed is a full accounting of what occurred there after reviewing all the facts before unilateral condemnations are made. Without question, firing in the vicinity or in the direction of protesters is a horrible horrible idea, and deserving of harsh criticism. But were the explosions in the crowd caused by the ordinance fired, as asserted by the Palestinians; or were they the result of explosives carried by people within the crowd or triggered by the actions of the IDF, as is claimed by the Israelis. That's my point. If it was the former, than full blame should justly be placed on the Israelis for this act. However, if the latter occurred, then not only should condemnation of the Israelis be made for taking such life-endangering actions, but also acknowledgment that there was fault on the part of some of those in the crowd that caused greater loss of life.

And by the way, I wasn't making a philosophical judgment on anyone's existence as merely "beings." I thank you for not attributing such callousness to my comments merely because you disagree with me. Clearly people were killed, and death, in any form, is a tragedy.

[Malikshah]

49. Let me clarify--

The point I was trying to raise is that when Palestinian civilians are killed, their deaths are 99.9% of the time explained away, given proper time.

The calls for "calm cool-headed thinking," "not-jumping the gun" are thrown out almost immediately.

These are soon followed by US statements concerning the "provocative" nature of the Israel and the like. Never a condemnation.

Then, the mantra of "remember the road map to peace" is proferred.

There is a pattern going on here, and I just wanted folks to realize it.

It is predictable, sick, and dismaying.

Just so you see where I'm coming from:

http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article2704.shtml

This article is well documented proof that the US is not getting information.

[fryguy]

53. all due respect

the Electronicintifada is hardly the source for a balanced view on the issue, or a basis for claiming "proof" that "information" is not being properly transmitted about an incident. That would be like me linking to Kach or some other RW Israeli Internet site and claiming their lies as truth. Or linking to Faux news and claiming their propaganda as news.....

.....what you're in effect saying is "This is the Palestinians' side of the story and I believe whatever they say....." Sorry, but I don't believe in that method of analyzing world events, especially those in the Middle East.

(on edit: http://debka.com/ reports that IDF did not fire directly into the Palestinian crowds and that the civilian population was instructed to march along, interspersed with armed men along a route heavily booby-trapped in anticipation of an Israeli offensive.....not that I necessarily beleive the veracity of their acount anymore than al Jazerra's, but it shows that all sides have their own media for dissemenating the information in a way best for them and its not so easy to link to a story on a website to prove one's point....)

[Malikshah]

57. All due respect (on edit-- sorry, with little respect for hypocrisy)

Did you even read the report---??? I am fully aware of the electronic intifada and it's editorializing--

The report I linked to was backed up with facts.

To respond with debka is the ultimate in the pot calling the kettle black.

[fryguy]

58. debka was to prove a point - no hypocrisy

it was not meant as a re-joinder - had you read the final line of my post (even with my writing al Jazera instead of EI) I would have thought that point was evident.

what I was saying - to be painfully clear - is that both sides of the I/P issue has its share of propaganda-laden internet sites. and that citing the Electronic Intifada as one's source for "information" carries about as much weight as one citing to Debka, endnotes (most citing to Palestinian pres releases after all) or not.

[Malikshah]

60. I'll agree to disagree as my original point holds firm

My original point was and is--

delay the condemnation so as to allow the diversion from the story to take place.

It's already begun and will continue.

The deaths will be forgotten by all but the Palestinians themselves.


As for the Electronic Intifada...
Please explain to me with evidence if possible how the Electronic Intifada is a propaganda site that is not to be relied upon?

Is it the name that offends? To date all I hear about the EI from many is that it's not a site to be trusted. No evidence is provided. No studies have been given. It's just "written off" with vague statements.

Simply put-- that's total BS.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[maddezmom]

67. how do you really feel?

:eyes:

[methinks2]

24. What the hell is wrong with peoples heads in that country?

Good grief. When we protest in America, no one fires missles and shrapnel tank shells into the protestors. Those people over there have completely lost their humanity. There is never any excuse for the level of violence happening in that country. It's obvious that God no longer resides in that country.

In the book of Mark Jesus said "Thou knowest the commandments".
I think that sums up what has gone wrong over there. No one with firepower remembers the 10 commandments.

[Aidoneus]

25. Yet another massacre supported with American money and bombs

It's an election year.. he can't risk that kind of ripple effect. At any rate, why WOULD he condemn it?--they're committing the same kind of massacres in Iraq, and the occupations of Iraq and all of Palestine are in fact linked.

This is standard procedure for the office, at any rate. Israel commits a massacre, the US President steps in and demands restraint from the victim, shielding the aggressor from any international censure. Clinton did it after Qana, Reagan for a decade..

[young_at_heart]

26. What is the view of the rest of the world?

How about the EU or the UN?

[Spazito]

34. The EU and the UN have condemned the actions...

and there is a resolution being brought to the Security Council, sadly we know that whatever is said in the resolution the US will veto.

[Just Me]

40. How many times has a UNSC resolution condemning actions by Sharon

been vetoed by Bush over the last three and a half years?

Personally, I no longer believe any single country should hold veto power. I believe reform is now necessary which requires three nations to hold a single (cooperative) veto power is in order.

[maddezmom]

50. they just did U.N. Demands Israel End Home Demolitions

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x566970

the US abstained, but it's a start...

[lil-petunia]

27. Restraint? Like whips and chains in Iraq?

Man-o-man-o-man-o-man.

If that is all he can do, This guy is really searching for Rapture, ain't he? If we get out of this without him starting a whirled war, I'll be happy. well, happier.

I am convinced that our president is a committed, evil, one-track, derailed headcase.

25 dead? Because they were complaining that their houses were being torn down - IN TERRORITY THAT ISRAEL IS RETURNING TO THEM!?!?!?!?!?!?!? This is worse than disgusting. this is criminal. Just what kind of deals did he cut with Sharon, anyway?


To top Sharon off, I see that we just killed another 45 in a wedding party in Iraq. Guess, we can't have their body count be higher than ours.

[lil-petunia]

29. call the white house

SHouldn't we all call the idiots and express our disgust at our lack of response?
How about e-mailing them as well. This government MUST see that some of us really cae about our nation.

[maddezmom]

31. bush* refusal to condemn attack, is a permission slip to Sharon

at this time they are launching new attacks....4:00pm ET :(

[Chicago Democrat]

33. I'll condemn it for him! I condemn this 'collective punishment' War Crime

Done with US complicity and acquiescence. Its pre-meditated cold blooded murder, my fellow Americans. Supporters of this policy support war crimes. Supporter of this policy condone fascist policies.

You want to see a picture a man carrying his son who face is all covered in blood? Look here...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3728681.stm

Does it make you cry? It made me cry. I hate the US GOVERNMENT FOR LETTING THIS HAPPEN!! I am ashamed of this country for allying itself with the Sharon government which has completely broken every single rule of warfare and it acting like the Serbs it what amounts to ethnic cleansing! Damn them! Damn them!

[Just Me]

45. I cry, too. They are behaving like the "Nazis" did,...just piecemeal.

I, too, am ashamed.

But, these tyrannical leaders,....they are not representative of humanity as a whole. To the contrary, they are representatives of the absolute worst of humanity: paranoid, greedy, power-mongering, cold, dark.

[daleo]

35. We often hear people saying Palestinians should attack IDF

And leave Israeli civilians alone. After having some success with just this strategy lately (a dozen or so IDF soldiers killed during incursions in Gaza), the Palestinian civilian population has now been attacked by the IDF. So, it looks like the punishment for military success is about the same as the punishment for suicide bombing of civilians.

[pinniped]

36. Don't expect any of the moranic POS to condemn the gunship attack...

on the wedding party either.

These POS love killing and lust for more blood and money.

[Spazito]

37. Here is bush's response to the Isreali attack on protesters, imo.

President Bush (news - web sites) and American Israel Public Affairs Committee executive director Howard Kohr, right, laugh as the crowd began chanting, four more years, Tuesday, May 18, 2004, prior to Bush speaking to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee in Washington. (AP Photo/Ron Edmonds)

[phoebe]

38. To be fair, Bush isn't the only one not condemning Israel's behavior.

What Bush Didn’t Say At AIPAC
http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=9445

snip

President George W. Bush got a raucous, politically tinged reception from the pro-Israel lobby on Tuesday, but failed to provide one thing many of the activists wanted: a reaffirmation of his recent promise to Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.

“The glaring omission of Bush’s recent promises to Sharon on refugees and settlements only verifies that he has backed away from those commitments,” said Morton Klein, president of the hawkish Zionist Organization of America.

snip

According to this year’s “roll call,” with AIPAC leaders calling out the names of politicians present and the crowd registering the guests’ relative popularity, about half the Senate and some 177 members of the House enjoyed the chicken, wrapped asparagus and super-sized portions of political schmoozing.

Lieberman, Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle (D-S.D.), House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-Texas) and Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif) all elicited big cheers.


On edit -this post is meant to be informative, NOT a post to incite hate-filled remarks on either side of the Israel/Palestine argument.
Bush also supports the House of Saud. Politics is an ugly business.

[JoFerret]

42. Bush responds to the bulldozers

[Darranar]

43. This is disgusting...

there was no excuse for that attack.

It should be universally condemned.

[wicket]

54. Amen to that

[Poiuyt]

46. Bush must really hate dark-skinned people

Is there anything else Bush can do to piss off the Arab world?

[Chicago Democrat]

51. He hates everyone and everything that isn't his slave.

Bush is a meglomaniacal pyschopath, and those are his good points!

[Wind Dancer]

52. This is sick!

Israel always has an excuse, unbelievable. Bush can't condemn this given his track record. His ongoing BS re: innocent lives makes me sick. How many innocent has this country killed?

[Paradise]

56. This is HORRIBLE, VILE, DISGUSTING, SAVAGE, CRIMINAL!

They were marching peacefully, protesting the invasion of their refugee camps.
God, they won't even let them have their refugee camps???
Bush* has to talk to Sharon before he condemns this brutality???
I'm devastated!

[powergirl]

59. COLIN POWELL CONDEMNED THE ISRAELI ATTACK

He must hate that administration so very very much. I wish he would have spoke up before our soldiers were sent to Iraq.

[goforit]

63. Goooooo..........COLIN!!!!!!!!!!!!

:bounce:

[goforit]

62. What a woooose behind that..........."tough guy" image!!!....LOL!!!!

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[maddezmom]

66. I have outrage for both sides...the killing needs to stop

but saying the Palestinians don't want peace is just plain dumb, perhaps using the word "some" would be more precise. Some Israeli's by their actions one could assume don't want peace, but many more do.

[Malikshah]

68. Hmmmm

This "information" is so wrong where to start--

Barak did not offer 97% of the land to Arafat in any official capacity. They were talking points that Arafat was told to accept 100% or they'd be taken off the table-- The "information" also neglected to mention that the Palestinians were to be but in Bantustan-like enclaves, surrounded by Israeli-only roads and thus would have to suffer through checkpoints as usual, they'd not have control over their water, airspace, no military, the list goes on.

The "information" also neglects to mention that the majority of the suicide bombers are from Islamic Jihad and Hamas, two groups that hate Arafat at times more than the Israelis and have worked against him on any number of occasions.

As this "information" has been repeated verbatim twice, I can only conclude that it is some mantra that has been committed to memory to be repeated over and over again, until folks believe the lies.

Sorry-- that's not discourse-- it's propaganda.