Drivers eye vegetable oil as cheap fuel

[neuvocat]

(Sorry if its a dupe but this is HUGE and this story should be rated with a "5" as much as possible.)



WESTON, Conn. - As the nation grapples with pumped-up gas prices, car owners are turning to their favorite restaurants for a solution: recycled vegetable oil.


AP Photo

Environmentalists have been using the fuel alternative for years as a way to cut back on sooty emissions, but as gas prices soar above $2 a gallon, they say their "veggie cars" are also a great way to save some cash.



Every two weeks, Etta Kantor drives to a local Chinese restaurant to fuel her blue Volkswagen Jetta. She calls ahead and the owner knows to put aside a few buckets of used oil just for her. At home, Kantor uses a colander and a bag filter to remove water and any food particles.



The vegetable oil is then poured into a 15-gallon tank that sits in the back of her Jetta, where a spare tire would usually be kept. With a touch of a button, located above the radio, Kantor can switch from diesel fuel to vegetable oil in seconds.



http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040524/ap_on_sc/
veggie_cars_1

[Soloflecks]

1. Just think....

Here in the South there's gotta be a glut of used vegetable oil. We fry everything. :9

[prodigal_green]

2. I hear the emissions smell like french fries

mmmmm french fries.

Brazil uses fuel made from sugar or a sugar/gasoline mix. You never hear about it though.

link:
http://www.economist.com/science/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1313810

[htuttle]

4. They use sugar cane ETHANOL, not sugar!

Big difference to an engine!

I wouldn't want anyone to try that at home by pouring sugar into their gas tank...

[kysrsoze]

13. Evidently there is an 85% ethanol/15% gas mixture available in Illinois

Anybody know anything about this? Gasohol is everywhere, but it's only 10% ethanol. Not sure what running an almost complete ethanol fuel would do to my engine - I have a "driver's car" and don't want to mess it up. I know methanol is terrible and gums up your engine.

[NickB79]

32. A few stations were selling E85 in the Twin Cities this weekend CHEAP!

85 cents per gallon! I think it was a one-time thing though, to promote a new product.

[trogdor]

28. That's a lot of cheap rum.

[SquireJons]

10. I've heard about it

They actually add the gasoline (a low %) to the mixture, in part to discourage drivers from drinking their fuel. I, for one, do not believe in 'peak production', the concept where the amount of oil the world is able to produce has peaked and will enter a period of dwindling reserves and escalating prices - and subsequent world disaster. That's all boggy man talk.

I can't give you all the science, but I believe that if we needed to, we could switch to a different energy source worldwide, relatively painlessly and certainly for less than the cost of these two gulf wars.

Oil prices and production is manipulated to create maximum demand and dependence. The industry has us by the short hairs and every government is afraid to take them on.It will probably take world wide nationalization of the energy industry, or a massive war, to change the situation.

[Throckmorton]

26. Sounds like a well camouflaged bison argument to me

Lord knows we have enough of them too.

[SquireJons]

51. whatthehellisthat?

"bison argument?"

...haven't heard that one before.

[TrueStory]

31. there was no switch in 1974 and 1979-1980

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4978144/

in 1974 price was 42$
and in 1979..1980 price was 74..78$

what makes you think this time there will be a switch?

[SquireJons]

52. I don't

The switch won't be made until after the revolution... then we walk.

Hell, I hate oil companies probably more than any other industry (even more than banks and insurance companies). But I haven't the slightest idea of how to take them on.

[nodehopper]

42. what do you mean you don't believe in peak oil?

In what sense? You are not convinced by the quantitative science on the subject, or you don't believe that oil is finite, or you just don't believe in it in general, like the flat earth society doesn't believe that the Earth is round?

[SquireJons]

53. The term has taken on a new meaning

Particularly with the energy moguls. They use the theoretical certainty that oil is finite to scare everyone into giving up their left nut.

Of course I believe that oil can not be the primary fuel source for the 21 century. But I don't believe in the doom and gloom scenarios that the oil industry puts out. When the oil companies have maximized their profits, then they will switch to already developed alternative energy sources.

Here's an example: many years ago (mid 80') I worked as a banquet bartender for a posh hotel. One day I worked an emergency meeting of the Board of Directors for Norfolk Southern Rail Road. So it was me and 7 major CEO's for a few hours and I heard the darnedest things spoken between them. For instance, the COE of Bell Labs was telling his cohort that "the boys in research" had developed something that he called the "Sun Pal". This was a device about the size of a laptop that contained two photo electric cells and when opened up, provided enough energy for a person on the beach to run a room air conditioner, lights and a stereo. That was 1985, and we still haven't seen the product. Can't have anything that undermines the monopoly on energy, can we?

[nodehopper]

55. Wow. I wonder how many products like that there are.

[SquireJons]

57. My Guess?

Hundreds. The energy crisis is manufactured by those who stand to gain enormous sums of money from the sale of oil. I can't believe that no one has made an issue of oil company profits this last year. Exxon-Mobile set the record for corporate profit in 2003: 20 billion dollars. Profit!!!!

If someone were to propose it, I'd favor nationalization of all energy resources. Oil companies can not be trusted in any way. They would even promote civil war or abolishment of civil rights if their interests were to be threatened.

Oil = Evil Exhibit A: the bushes

[Bdog]

50. The new "bi-fuel" vehicles could expand the use of renewable energy

http://tierramerica.net/english/2003/0825/iacentos.shtml
The new "bi-fuel" vehicles could expand the use of renewable energy, which had been on the decline in the late 1990s.

RIO DE JANEIRO - Brazil's automotive industry, which had made advances in using fuel alcohol as a means to confront the oil crisis of the 1970s, is taking another step, manufacturing cars that run on gasoline, alcohol or a mix of the two -- and maintaining the same level of vehicle performance.

The car manufacturers Volkswagen, of German origins, and the U.S.-based General Motors put the first dual fuel vehicles on the market here in April and June, respectively. The technogical innovation is a result of Brazilian industry, although the two companies are transnationals.

The result benefits the environment, because reducing gasoline consumption and increasing alcohol use means lower emissions of carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas that contributes to global warming, Manoel Paulo de Toledo, engineering and inspection manager for the Sao Paulo state technology and environment entity CETESB, told Tierramérica.

Substituting a fossil fuel with a plant-based renewable fuel "is the correct route to take," especially for curbing climate change, agrees Eduardo quartim, project coordinator at the Ecoar Institute, a Sao Paulo environmental group.

Furthermore, explained CETESB's Toledo, alcohol production creates economic and social benefits for Brazil because it "generates employment and gives the rural population a reason to stay."

Sugar cane, the raw material for alcohol, absorbs as much or more carbon dioxide than what is emitted by alcohol comubstion. And sugar cane byproducts, like the pulp and sediments, are used to generate electricity and as fertliser.

The bi-fuel automobile increases Brazil's opportunities to export vehicles, alcohol and automotive technology. Several countries, including the United States, China and Canada, already consume gasoline with alcohol added.

[ET Awful]

3. I've mentioned this on here before a long time ago . . .

Pretty much any diesel engine can burn veggie oil with a few slight modifications. Basically the main issue is keeping the veggie oil heated up so it stays a consistent viscosity and can flow through fuel lines, pumps, injectors, etc.

http://www.greasecar.com used to be a great source for information on this, but their site appears to be down currently.

[Dying Eagle]

5. Hmmm Deep fryed

[Beaker]

19. instead of "greasecar", try "hempcar"...

a much more appealing name.

http://www.hempcar.org

[SquireJons]

58. Forget It

I bearly have enough for myself. I'm not sharing any with my car.

[daleo]

6. This is a nice niche source

But it will hardly make a dent in the 20 million barrels per day that the U.S. burns.

"The United States consumed an average of about 20.0 MMBD of oil in 2003, up from 19.8 MMBD in 2002. Of this, 8.9 MMBD (or 45% of the total) was motor gasoline, 4.8 MMBD (24%) "other oils" 3.9 MMBD (20%) distillate fuel oil, 1.6 MMBD (8%) jet fuel, and 0.77 million bbl/d (4%) residual fuel oil."

At 42 gallons per barrel that works out to about 373,800,000 gallons of gasoline, 840,000,000 gallons of petroleum of all types.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/usa.html

[Dogmudgeon]

7. Nice, but could we raise and process 10 millon barrels per day?

One of our problems with energy is simply a matter of scale. As long as it's only a few people, biodiesel (using vegetable oil for fuel) is nice and cheap. But raising, harvesting, and processing enough corn or soybeans or rape to make 10 million barrels of biodiesel per day can't be done economically; I don't even think it can be done logistically, but I'll be happy to be proven wrong.

FIRST, we need to drastically change personal transport. Well-designed "microcars" that get over 200 miles to a gallon of gasoline are already in the prototype stage. Hybrid drive engines for such microcars would further reduce costs and increase energy renewability. And then biodiesel might have a chance in some areas, if microcars were manufactured that could run on it.

We could also get all the trucks off the roads by using dirigibles for cargo transport -- proposed in the 1960s but never invested in. But that's another story.

--bkl

[htuttle]

8. I don't think there's any single energy source to replace petroleum

I think that a variety of sources need to be used, each where most efficient.

Bio-fuels, various types of solar, wind, hydro COMBINED with conservation and engineering for efficiency.

[Tellurian]

9. Hemp oil could be a viable alternative source...

And farmers would also benefit as hemp growers.

[Beaker]

12. growing hemp benefits in many ways-

too bad the "religious" right can't recognize a true gift of nature(i.e. god) when it's staring them right in the face...

http://naihc.org/hemp_information/content/millerhemp.html

Although hemp crops remove quite a bit of nutrient, (167) hemp sheds leaves that return nutrients to the field, and upper leaves remaining on stalks drop to the ground as part of the field "retting" process described below. (168) In field retting the soil also recovers about 20% (by weight) of organic material from stalks, and farmers can plow stubble under. (169) Hemp's net extraction from soil fertility is thereby less than many other crops (170) and is considered comparable to corn. (171) Corn, incidentally, does well when planted after hemp. (172) During the 1970's in France winter wheat commonly followed hemp. (173) French growers find that hemp clears weeds and cereal parasites from wheat fields, and the deep hemp roots help with tilling. (174) Hemp crops are noted for improving physical condition of soil. (175) Indeed, hemp has been recommended as a crop for soil building purposes. (176) U. S. hemp production fell after World War II because planted acreage fell, not because soil fertility declined. (177)

Fields can be plowed in fall or spring, though some authorities recommend fall. Hemp thrives in the type of seedbed prepared for alfalfa. (178) Seed can be broadcast or planted by seed drill no deeper than one inch; drilling improves yield. (179) Seed is about the size of wheat, 44 pounds to the bushel, and 33-55 pounds per acre are recommended for fiber crops. (180) Higher seeding rates don't increase the yield of stalks per acre, but can increase yield of fiber from stalks. (181) Experiments suggest that treatment with seed disinfectants have small or zero effect on yield. (182) In the Midwest the best time to plant hemp is after oats and before corn. (183) The first week of May may be ideal around Ames, Iowa. (184) Growing season is 120 days.

[John_H]

22. i don't get hemp

Maybe the hemp thing skipped a generation, but what makes hemp oil any better than corn or soy oil? Farmers already have tens of thousands of dollars in corn and bean harvesting equipment. Whay should they retool to grow hemp?

Are there agricultural or production reasons why hemp oil is better, or do we just like smoking dope so much that we're charmed by the thought of it growing everywhere. Are we thinking we can hide a plant or two of Northern Lights among farmer bob's ditch weed?

[htuttle]

23. Hemp produces more seed oil than corn or soy

There are only a few crops that produce more by acreage. Also, Hemp grows well in bad or tired soil, and does a superior job of preventing erosion. Another one of it's former uses used to be rehabilitating fallow fields.

There were a number of reasons it was one of the main crops in this country before the invention of synthetic fibers, and it wasn't because they smoked it.

[Bdog]

24. and hemp is a better ethanol feed stock than corn

http://www.beconnected.org/feature3.html#bottom
The big news on the ethanol front is that the cellulosic or fiber-based refining process could change the shape of the entire industry. This process is complementary to regular corn-based ethanol, because it uses agricultural residues, such as, corn stover(stalks) or straw as its source. Even certain municipal wastes or fiber-rich grasses like switch grass can be used. Iogen Corporation, based in Ottawa, Canada, is currently in the lead with the largest testing facility. They expect to build the first commercially viable cellulosic ethanol plants in the next three to four years. Their long-term plan is to build new facilities in areas where transport of agricultural residues is most convenient. States in the American Midwest are likely to be choice candidates.

[NickB79]

34. But then you lose land currently enrolled in crop production

Food or fuel, a horrible choice to have to make.

[Beaker]

36. It's grown in rotation with other crops-

which also reduces or eliminates the need for lots of fertilizers and/or pesticides. plus- the plant's root system make the ground much easier to till, meaning less energy(i.e. tractor power) needed to do so.

the only choice that will have to be made is to choose to allow it to be grown.

[NickB79]

38. Farmers already practice rotation

Only we grow food crops during each rotation. Corn, soybeans, alfalfa, barley, wheat, oats, etc, are all grown in rotation already, and all can produce food either directly for human consumption or indirectly (alfalfa fed to dairy cattle to produce milk and cheese). Hemp can be processed as a food as well, but then you lose some of it's yield for biofuel. You can't grow hemp in rotation and expect to obtain just as much food as before unless you put more land into cultivation.

[Beaker]

39. hemp can also be grown in all 50 states-

it even grows very well in Canada
plus- we are importing more and more foods from other countries, and some food crops are so abundant that farmers can't get a good price for their crops- I'm sure a lot of them would love to have the option of putting hemp into their rotation.

there's plenty of room for both-

and maybe we could cut down on the amount of cotton and tobacco that's grown.

[Beaker]

40. the value of new crops.

here's a piece from Purdue university you might find interesting. It doesn't mention hemp as a possible new crop, but that is probably just a political restraint.

http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/proceedings1996/V3-098.html#THE%20VALUE%20OF%20NEW%20CROPS

THE VALUE OF NEW CROPS
New crops offer U.S. agriculture many potential benefits for producers, rural communities, and industry. The soybean, for instance, contributed more than $500 billion to the U.S. economy from 1925 through 1985. New crops offer alternative means of increasing farm income by diversifying products, hedging risks, expanding markets, increasing exports, decreasing imports, improving human and livestock diets, and creating new industries based on renewable agricultural resources. New crops also can spur economic development in rural areas by creating local, rural based industries such as processing and packaging and by providing general economic stability. New crops currently serve the strategic interests of the nation by providing domestic sources for imported materials and by providing substitutes for petroleum based products. Promotion of new grain crops in the United States also would serve as a form of world food security because many of the preferred cereal grains, e.g., millet and teff, in food deficit areas such as Africa are not grown widely in the United States. The exploitation of crops that can be grown for fuel, fiber, and a wide array of industrial products would help decrease U.S. reliance on imports, decrease acreage devoted to feed grains in surplus, strengthen the economic base for American farmers, and promote new sustainable industries based on renewable resources...

plenty more at the link.

[jmcgowanjm]

29. Where veggie oil comes from

Farming is the process of ripping that niche open again
and again. It is an annual artificial catastrophe, and it
requires the equivalent of three or four tons of TNT per acre for
a modern American farm. Iowa's fields require the energy
of 4,000 Nagasaki bombs every year.

It takes real oil to do this kind of work.

http://articles.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1111/is_1845_308/ai_112796599

[mulethree]

46. thanks - great article

[0007]

54. A variety of sources intergrated with hydrogen could be possible

[Alerter_]

27. dirigibles for cargo transport

That could be interesting. I don't know the energy costs of the big floating balloons though. Would that be realistic? Is the only reason we aren't using Zeppelins now because of the famous crash?

[Dogmudgeon]

48. Why aren't dirigibles being used?

The Hindenburg. That's a big reason.

But also, investment jumped to the burgeoning powered-aircraft industry, which would become vitally important a few years later when WWII got under way.

In an age of expensive energy, dirigibles (also now called LTAs or LTA craft, for "Lighter Than Air Craft") could become extraordinarily profitable. The energy required to loft and propel an LTA is much less than it is for a jet aircraft, and given a doubling of jet aircraft fuel, this economy could become much greater.

Although non-flammable helium is now used in LTA craft, there is no reason why hydrogen could not be used again. It's cheaper, more abundant, and has superior lifting capabilities. Most of the safety issues have been addressed, and advanced aircraft design, coupled with computerized fire-suppression systems, could make hydrogen explosions as rare as gas tank explosions -- which do still happen, but as a result of accidents and careless engineering.

Besides, most of the 36 people who died on the Hindenburg died from jumping from the gondola, not from fire.

LTAs are also a natural choice for an aircraft powered, fully or partially, by the Sun. A large, flat LTA topped with low-cost, flexible, high-output solar cells may become the dominant passenger aircraft of the future, if oil prices become too high. WIthout better solar electricity generation, they are still energy-efficient and friendly to the environment. Even for short flights, a large LTA carrying 500-1000 passengers from DC to New York, for instance, would be looked on as a kind of luxury barge.

The natural use for LTAs is in hauling cargo, but with airspeeds of 30-100 miles per hour, leisurely flights across the country could be made in 30-100 hours, and across the Atlantic in as little as 60 hours.

Here's a few links to get you started reading about the New Dirigibles:

General info.
A government study.
Science magazine
SkyCat cargo lifters for Military uses.
The CargoLifter 160

--bkl

[Beaker]

11. The diesel engine was designed to run with vegetable/hemp oil

hemp is an extremely versatile, resilient, and renewable resource.

in addition to using hemp oil as a fuel, hemp- when grown in circuit with other crops reduces the need for pesticides and fertilizers in the fields(btw- most of both fertilizers and pesticides are petroleum products)


the day will come.

[JayS]

14. But hemp is evil.

We learned this in school.

Say No To Drugs! :)

[Ganja Ninja]

25. Hemp is a modern miracle and a cure all for our economy.

Hemp and Hemp products are the last best hope of mankind.

[Beaker]

35. how's about some details-

http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:ba9lo2CZiVMJ:www.ienica.net/crops/hemp.pdf+hemp+oil+properties+comparison&hl=en

Markets and Market Potential
Awareness of hemp fibre is increasing rapidly and a large range of hemp products are now becoming available. Part of the reason for the comeback of hemp is the variety of raw materials derived from the hemp plant – four different non-food materials in all: long bast fibre, medium fibre, short core fibre, and seed oil. Long fibre has long, strong strands – superior to cotton – that are very desirable for textiles; has anti-mildew and anti-microbial properties that are particularly useful for sails, tarp, awnings and carpets; is biodegradable and serves as an environmentally sound substitute for fibreglass. Medium fibre has low lignin levels that make it ideal for paper and non-woven
applications; shares the bast fibre’s anti-mildew and anti-microbial properties, so it is well suited for medical applications and hygiene products, such as nappy and sanitary napkins. Short core fibre is up to twice as absorbent as wood shavings, making it an excellent choice for packaging and animal bedding; serves as a direct, often sturdier replacement of wood in construction materials; blends easily with lime to create a strong yet lightweight concrete or plaster; is biodegradable and serves as an environmentally responsible material for use in manufacturing plastics. Seed oil also has anti-mildew and anti-microbial properties that make it an excellent base for soaps, shampoos and detergents; blends easily with other substances to produce lubricants, paints and printing inks. The German Aerospace Institute, as well as several German and American automobile companies, have shown hemp’s suitability for making auto components such as gaskets, seat covers, floor mats, and interior panelling. A statement from Daimler-Benz notes: “Hemp fibres have a number of advantages over flax. They are richer than flax and can be cultivated without the use of insecticides. Initial investigations have shown that hemp matches and even surpasses flax in terms of performance potential and promises to be more economical.” Numerous personal care products can be manufactured using the oil extracted from hemp seeds. Research has shown that hemp oil assists the body’s natural ability to heal both externally and internally. The essential fatty acids are readily absorbed into skin cells. Because hemp oil can help restore and moisten skin it is becoming popular for use as massage oil and in lip balms, soaps, shampoos and lotions. Fibre composites, the fastest growing segment of the wood-products industry, comprise the largest potential market for industrial hemp. Composites include panelling, medium density fibreboard, plywood trusses, and support beams. Hemp can be substituted for wood without changing existing production equipment. Hemp can also be processed into a variety of insulation products that are safer than fibreglass and easy to install. A cement-plaster-like material can be made from a combination of hemp hurds (short, core fibres) and lime. The material can be used without further additives in foundations, walls, floors and ceilings and for interior and exterior plaster. It is stronger than concrete, yet five times lighter, and has excellent insulation and fire-retardant properties. It is also resistant to insects and mold.

Until the 1930’s hemp oil was one of the major ingredients of resins, paints, shellacs and varnishes. As a more environmentally responsible material than present day mineral oils it is hoped that hemp oil will again become the ingredient of choice. Hemp has a fibre yield per acre several times higher than that of trees. Hemp’s long and tough bast fibre, while requiring cutting prior to paper making, can produce high quality papers for books, magazines and stationary. The shorter core fibres blended with another long fibred pulp can be used to make newspaper, tissue and packaging materials. There is a potential for hemp substitution at 4,000tonnes per year rising to 8,000 tonnes per year. Currently there are 31 mills throughout the world taking hemp, of which 3 are in Western Europe. Those in France and Spain are adequately supplied locally. Hemp can be used to manufacture a variety of plastic products. The hurds (short core fibres) may be processed into cellophane packing material or into a low cost, compostable replacement for polystyrene. Several German companies are now developing 100% hemp cellulose plastic composites for the manufacture of snowboards and skateboards. An Austrian company, Zellform, has created a hemp plastic resin called Hempstone for use in musical instruments, loudspeakers and furniture. Plant based plastics from hemp can be completely biodegraded. In the EU annual consumption for packaging uses includes 12 million tonnes of paper and board, 6 million tonnes of plastics and 10,000 tonnes of polystyrene. Hemp textiles offer a multiplicity of fabric uses: for bedspreads, blankets, backpacks, carpeting, clothing, draperies, hats, luggage, mattresses, sails, sheets, shoes, shirts, tents, towels and upholstery, to name only a few. Hemp textiles have a number of distinct advantages over other fabrics. Compared to cotton fibres, hemp fibres are longer, stronger, more lustrous and absorbent and more mildew resistant.

Modern Uses for Hemp
TEXTILE• apparel • diapers • fabrics • handbags • working clothes • denim • socks • shoes • fine textiles (from cottonized fibres) Bast Fibres

abrasive fluids • pest resistance • weed supression • elimination of pesticides without disadvantages • pollen isolation • soil improvement in crop rotatioFlued n Agricultural Benefits Whole Plant• boiler fuel • pyrolysis feedstock (after pressing) •animal feed•protein-rich flour FOODS •granola •birdseed Hemp Plant Seed Cake Cell Seeds Hemp Stalk with Seeds Leaves

PERSONAL HYGIENE• soap • shampoo • bath gels • cosmetics

FOODS • salad oil • margarine • food supplements • protein-rich flour • granola • birdseed Hemp Plant Seed Cake Cell Seeds Hemp Stalk with Seeds Leaves


animal bedding • mulch • mushroom compost • oil paints • solvents • varnishes • chain-saw lubricants • printing inks• putty • coatings • fuel • fibreboard • insulation material • fibreglass substitute • cement blocks • stucco and mortar • printing paper • fine and speciality papers • technical filter paper • newspint • cardboard and packaging• agro-fibre composites • compression-moulded parts• brake/clutch linings • caulking • twine • rope • nets • canvas bags • tarps • carpets • geotextiles Hemp Oil

[DainBramaged]

15. Pretty soon the restaurants will charge to get rid of waste oil

Quick aside,

A couple of the car dealers I do work for used to have to pay to get rid of used engine oil. Until a company came up with a clean-burning waste oil-fired hot air shop heater. Now, to keep the tanks filled, they invite folks to dump their used oil for free (and STILL charge a 'waste disposal fee' when they change their oil for them).

[Wapsie B]

16. Amoco & BP will

corner the market on this stuff. No way does a blood thirsty capitalist korporation let something go for free for long.

[Tellurian]

21. I was thinking the same thing...

I was considering if it would be worth the bother investing in a veggie system, (btw- I bookmarked it for further research) when it would be only a matter of time before an entrepreneur would corner the market.

The best part, I think, of using veggie oil as a fuel source, is it non toxic, and would be infinitely available. Unlike the toxic pollutant petroleum, we've been advised is reaching it's limit.

[Tellurian]

17. Standard Oil was key in preventing Hemp and hemp products from flourishing

The Hemp Tax was the beginning of a concerted effort by wealthy oil families in conjunction with The Treasury Dept. at the behest of Washington insiders to somehow legislate Hemp out of the running as an alternative fuel source and potential threat to the new petrol based plastic, discovered by chemists at Dow Chemical.

Michael R. Aldrich, Ph.D.

Historian

"Jack hangs his conspiracy angle on events that happened simultaneously with marijuana prohibition. Coincidence number one: the decorticator, a mechanical processing machine invented by a German immigrant, was about to bring hemp into the modern industrial age. Popular Mechanics Magazine recognized the potential bonanza for American farmers and entrepreneurs in a machine that could process hemp quickly and cheaply for the first time in history.

Coincidences number two and three: the DuPont company was coming out with both a sulphuric-acid method for making tree-based paper, and a new invention called plastic. Jack's book points out that a hemp resurgence in the thirties would certainly have been a serious threat to Dupont's petro-chemical strategies.

And Finally there's millionaire financier Andrew Mellon, in 1937, Mellon was Anslinger's boss, Harry's wife's uncle, and Dupont's banker. Coincidences number four, five and six."

http://www.sur-le-champ.com/english/e_chan_histoire.html

[Beaker]

18. Andrew Mellon has a great grand-nephew you may have heard of...

Richard Mellon-Scaife.

[Tellurian]

20. haha...just a little..

he's been keeping a low profile lately.
Wonder what he's doing now?

[Tellurian]

44. Beaker, from your link: The reason for banning Hemp seems to be a Repub

Fairy tale that no one in Congress has bothered to investigate..

MARIJUANA/HEMP WAS LEGAL, WHY WAS IT BANNED?

For the first 162 years of America's existence, marijuana was totally legal and hemp was a common crop. But during the 1930s, the U.S. government and the media began spreading outrageous lies about marijuana, which led to its prohibition. Some headlines made about marijuana in the 1930s were: "Marijuana: The assassin of youth." "Marijuana: The devil's weed with roots in hell." "Marijuana makes fiends of boys in 30 days." "If the hideous monster Frankenstein came face to face with the monster marijuana, he would drop dead of fright." In 1936, the liquor industry funded the infamous movie titled Reefer Madness. This movie depicts a man going insane from smoking marijuana, and then killing his entire family with an ax. This campaign of lies, as well as other evidence, have led many to believe there may have been a hidden agenda behind Marijuana Prohibition.

Shortly before marijuana was banned by The Marijuana Tax Act of 1937, new technologies were developed that made hemp a potential competitor with the newly-founded synthetic fiber and plastics industries. Hemp's potential for producing paper also posed a threat to the timber industry (see New Billion-Dollar Crop). Evidence suggests that commercial interests having much to lose from hemp competition helped propagate reefer madness hysteria, and used their influence to lobby for Marijuana Prohibition. It is not known for certain if special interests conspired to destroy the hemp industry via Marijuana Prohibition, but enough evidence exists to raise the possibility.


http://www.hempcar.org/untoldstory/hemp_5.html

[ze_dscherman]

30. Canola oil is available at some filling stations

Here in Germany, at least. Also, I remember some documentaries about car modifications to burn other vegetable oils. However, there's not a SINGLE solution to the energy crisis. It needs to be the mixture of CONSERVATION(that includes heating insulation, efficient cars, fuel cells, LESS driving, less transportation of goods, public transport, recycling of materials) and different RENEWABLE/SUSTAINABLE energies.

I'm pretty sure that the switch away from oil could also give a big economic push - lot's of new investment, research, infrastructure and jobs to be head. But of course, those that profit from the oil based economy will not give up their old money/power making schemes easily.

[JM]

33. McGas coming to a corner near you

They will just add pumps at the end of the drive through line. Straight from the fryer vats to your tank (with a filter between)

If you order fries, you get a discount...

JM

[Gregorian]

37. PEOPLE JUST DON'T GET IT

Yes, I'm yelling.

If it's combustion, it's not solving anything. CO2 particulates are causing the problems, along with wasted heat. And let's just throw in another little tidbit- with massive deforestation, what is going to convert our CO2?


(And one more time, since this is the REAL issue, and since noone is addressing it- it's the number of users. I know, why talk about that? I mean, we're here. We're using. Get used to it? Well, the big issue, is breeding. Ok, go ahead and bash me. I'm used to it. But noone can deny this fact. Six people burning fuel are not a problem. Six billion people burning IS a problem.)

The real problem is so big that noone is willing to even go anywhere near it.

Edit- And here's the nightmare I keep having: America finally wakes up and eases some of the issues. Biomass fuels, and more efficient energy conversion methods, etc. At that point, we are working to solve our problem. And at the same time, China, India, and a multitude of other nations are just beginning to combust fuels for their new worlds. It's ugly ugly ugly. What we are just finishing, they'll be just starting.

[TexasBushwhacker]

41. HEY, I GET IT!

The bottom line is that the problem is complex and has no easy solution. However, there are choices we can make that cumulatively can make a big difference:

1) Acknowledge that relying on fossil fuels, especially IMPORTED fossil fuels will be the death of us, sooner or later. ANYTHING that reduces out dependence on fossil fuels must be considered, promoted, given tax breaks and subsidies for research. Obviously non-combustion methods of producing energy are the best, but reducing our dependency on fossil fuels is an immediate problem for which we already have solutions available - biodiesel, E85, etc.

2) All governments, worldwide, should have health programs in place that promote the use of birth control and sterilization, including paying people to be sterilized. The Catholic church's stand on birth control must change. Overpopulation is killing Mexico, Central and South America, and the Catholic churches stance on birth control is part of the problem. We need to get radical about the issue of raising children in poverty. This isn't racist. There are plenty of white people that raise their children in poverty. Having children is a right AND A RESPONSIBILITY.

3) Any garbage that's going in a landfill when it could be recycled or used as fuel is just plain stupid. Recycling should be easy.

That's it for now.

[Gregorian]

43. I really wish we could talk more about population

The problem is that we are already so far beyond a sustainable number, that it's no longer much of a talkingpoint.

The big problem is that having children is natural, and it's a right.

I think the only way we can ever solve all of the world's problems, aside from (don't know the correct word) those that are self imposed (greed), is to educate people. I happen to be one of the few, and very very unlucky people, who have been painfully aware of this population problem.

Right now I'm in the middle of my life. I have worked very hard to get away from population centers. I quit Silicon Valley, and moved away. But the population has increased everywhere. It's like it's following me. What used to be quiet towns in the middle of nowhere, are now popping up with horrid tracts of houses. It's just heartbreaking, and frustrating no end. I'm beside myself. And I've got nearly a million dollars in the bank. If I can't get away from the mess, then noone can.

I've spent years looking for an overpopulation forum. I can't even find one. I've called ZPG, and got some granny in her livingroom, answering their phones. It's like a nonissue.

However, having said that- if we suddenly stopped breeding, the population would be zero in 100 years. :)

The sickest part of all of this is that if we don't take care of the problem, nature is going to take care of it for us. And that is ugly. We're already seeing it happening.

Hey, and thanks for being so cool. And not flaming me. Since everyone seems to have kids, they have a hard time discussing this.

Bye for now.

[Geo55]

56. population

"The big problem is that having children is natural, and it's a right."

When global resources get very tight....this will not stand.

[Dogmudgeon]

49. Better chemistry than you think

Biodiesel is actually much easier on the environment than are petroleum products. You get more heat with less waste. Petroleum products have more total burnability available, but almost none of the internal combustion engines in current use are efficient enough to make use of that potential heat. As a result, a lot of energy is never generated, and a lot of what is generated goes into carrying pollutants into the atmosphere.

CO2 is a pollutant, but there is no such thing as "CO2 particulates". Fortunately! However, CO2 emissions in biodiesel are much lower than with petroleum fuels.

The long-term answer isn't to switch over to all biofuels forever. We certainly will have to calculate the effects of heat and carbon imbalance. But provided we can grow enough economically, vegetable-oil based fuels can ease the transition from a petroleum-burning economy to an economy where energy is intelligently managed.

--bkl

[Tellurian]

45. If we're taking the Repuglies down. Let's take them down all the way!

Enough of their BS nonsense..

Empty out the jails. Replace Oil w/Hemp Oil..

Allow farmers to make a decent living.

[MadHound]

47. Biodiesel can see us through

Honestly, biodiesel is THE way to go. At the most the only modifications you might have to make to your diesel engine is replace your neoprene fuel lines with metal ones.

Emissions from biodiesel engines are quite low, about seventy five percent less than what dino diesel puts out. The only major byproduct from processing biodiesel is glycerin, which you can turn around and use in the manufacture of soap. And biodiesel itself is bio-degradable.

We could ramp up the production of biodiesel pretty much in one growing season. Sunflower seeds and hemp seeds produce the most oil per pound for use, and the renewal of these crops would be a boon to the agriculture industry and the family farmer. They grow virtually anywhere, even on land that is otherwise unsuitable for crops, and are a low maintenence/low water crop to produce. Any diesel burning engine, whether a home generator or the power plant for a diesel burning electric plant could switch over to burning biodiesel with minimal retrofitting.

But you aren't going to "see a plan" for ramping up biodiesel fuel use anytime in the near future friend, there is still too much money for the oily robber barons to make from traditional mineral fuels. What needs to happen is for people to put the capitalistic system to use, and that is for you and me and others to start creating a demand. It is very easy to make your own biodiesel in your garage, and I guarantee you that if even five-ten percent of the people in this country started doing that, somebody with their eye on the ball will start producing biodiesel commercially. You start getting biodiesel stations popping up all over the country, then some bright city manager will get the idea to start using it in their diesel burning electric plant, and thus the market forces will reach critical mass and biodiesel will take off.

I've gotten a small model diesel engine to refine the quality control of my biodiesel on. By the end of the summer, I'll have a diesel Jetta to start fueling and running. What are you going to do? Here's a couple of good places to start:
<http://search.barnesandnoble.com/bookSearch/isbnInquiry.asp?sourceid=0... >
<http://www.dancingrabbit.org/biodiesel />