"Bush should have died, not Reagen." (Morrissey)

[doxieone]

http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/news/s/119/119107_bush_should_have_died_not_reagan_morrissey.html

'Bush should have died, not Reagan': Morrissey

CONTROVERSIAL: Morrissey

MANCHESTER music legend Morrissey sparked controversy when he announced Ronald Reagan's death live on stage during a concert - and then declared he wished it was George Bush who had died instead.

Thousands of fans at Dublin Castle, in Ireland, cheered when the ex-Smiths frontman made the announcement that the former American president, who had battled with Alzheimer's Disease, had passed away.

And an even bigger cheer followed when Morrissey - who is no stranger to controversy - then said he wished it had been the current President, George W Bush, who had died.

(snip)

[DarkPhenyx]

1. Joy.

Another not so smart statement. *shaking head* Ah well. Stupidity has been running rampant the last couple days. maybe it will have burned out in a week.

[Walt Starr]

10. Some people have no sense of humor

LOL

[DarkPhenyx]

13. And some have...

...no sense of decency or propriety.

[FlemingsGhost]

17. From the same man who's ode to Thatcher is entitled:

"Margaret on the Guillotine"
(from the 1988 release, "Viva Hate.")

The kind people
have a wonderful dream
Margaret on the guillotine
because people like you
make me feel so tired
when will you die?
when will you die?
when will you die?
when will you die?
when will you die?
because people like you
make me feel old inside
please die
and kind people
do not shelter this dream
make it real
make the dream real
make the dream real
make it real

-------------------------
Lighten up, people.

(on edit: added lyrics)

[BiggJawn]

24. "Decency"????

For Reagan? Sorry, Phenyx, he gets no pass from me just because he died old and vacant-minded.

That man did plenty to be hated for while he was alive.

Or are you suggesting we speak kindly of Adolf Hitler, just because he's dead, too?

[DarkPhenyx]

25. Not asking for a pass for him.

Just asking for us to behave better than the opposition is all.

[BiggJawn]

32. Well, that's what got us in this mess, IMO.

We've "Better behaved" ourselves into the position of the "mildly protesting and somewhat humourous opposition"...

The gloves are off and my ankle STILL gives me trouble from the night I tried to kick his face in after he asked me if I was "doing better than I was 4 years ago". Tough glass, those TV screens...

We can agree to disagree, I guess. Ironic, isn't it. Even in death, the old bastard still divides people.

[DarkPhenyx]

36. You can be better behaved w/o being a wimp.

It the difference between "Please don't hurt me" and "I take exception to that statement and demand that you retract it of give satisfaction." They may be stuck up sticky bits about some things but the Brits have the right of many more.

[jdj]

38. Dear Big Jawn

That's so true.

I think James Carville put it best in his book when he said how can we expect people to put faith in the democratic party's ability to defend this country if they won't stand up and defend themselves. (Book title is "Had enough? A Handbook for Fighting Back")

I don't know where the hell we got into this light ching ching bow and smile dalai lama bullshit. I got really nauseated listeing to people call up Randi Rhodes in the first days of Air America and tell her to be nicer.

We don't have to "be better" than the repukes because the fact is we ARE better, and we would have to try really hard for decades to even tie with them in the evil department. Ronald Reagan was human pond scum, as evil as they come.

One really sad thing about this media consolidation is that the artists on this side of the ocean who are speaking out against this pretzeldent aren't getting the breaks and the media attention to even make a dent p.r. wise (I'm talking music here).

[Mike Niendorff]

63. You just said a mouthful.

"how can we expect people to put faith in the Democratic party's ability to defend this country if they won't stand up and defend themselves?"

Beautifully put.

The days for Miss Manners are over. It's time to say hi to Captain Whupp-ass.


MDN

[Occulus]

64. I agreed 100% as soon as I read that.

[Gore1FL]

70. How is blasting a dead man

defending ourselves?

The time to blast reagan was when he was in office, not 16 years later after a long steady decline.

What we need to defend ourselves against is not a dead man whose influence ahs not been felt for 12 years.

Thats sort of like a pre-emptive strike on a country that hasn't been an issue for 12 years, is it not?

If you desire to expend energy defending yourself against the Right, may I suggest a focussing on living person who holds office currently?

The venom that I've seen in the last few days reminds me of everything I despise about the Right -- yet I see it hear at a Democratic website.

Perhaps a better way to defend ourselves is to first purge the cancerous hate within so that we may better defend against those who thrive on said cancer.

I expect this type of crap out of Bush, Cheney, Limbaugh, HAnnity, et al but not anyone here.

I was really pissed when the Freepers did the same thing with Sen Wellstone. I hust always, and evidently mistakenly, thought we were better than this.

[FlashHarry]

39. Agreed.

Andrew Sullivan has already linked to an anti-Reagan thread on this site. We are better than "them." We should act accordingly.

[Gore1FL]

69. No

But I don't expect 100 threads to pop up for the sole purpsoe of pissing on his grave.

[neuvocat]

28. And some have...

no sense whatsoever. They just hang around and try to insult people's intelligence just because they disagree with them.

[Generator]

14. Really? what's the problem-

Many on DU say Bush=Hitler.(I do not and find those people kinda hyperbolic amusing for the most part but still) If you were living when Hitler was alive you wouldn't hope for him to die?

I find honesty refreshing. If you feel that ONE MAN in POWER is hurting the world, wishing a little death is the least of it, in my opinion. We have a world where WAR is accepted but hoping that those that START wars die IS BAD? Oh Christ. Everything is pissing me off today.

[LondonAmerican]

26. What a load of crap

Comparing Reagan to Hitler just trivialises nazism. Idiotic. Do you really mean to say that nazism wasn't so bad, just a german version of Reaganism?

Man how stupid.

[Webster Green]

30. The comparison is valid....Repukes are acting like Nazis....

If they don't like the comparison then they should change their behavior. The war-chimp has stepped it up a notch or two from Reagan and Poppy, but they are/were all Nazis.

If allowed to continue with their plans, the repuke party will be equal to or worse than Hitler and the Nazi party in the scope of their atrocities. I am sick of hearing that the Repuke-Nazi comparison is over the top. It is right on, and those who doubt it should consult their history books to review the methods that the Nazis employed.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FlashHarry]

40. Yep. Hysterical and overblown.

Neither Bush nor Reagan are even close to the pure evil that was Hitler. Reagan was a bad president. Bush is probably the worst president in our history. But he hasn't come close to exterminating an entire people in any sort of "final solution."

[loudsue]

44. Tell that to the people of Iraq

"But he hasn't come close to exterminating an entire people in any sort of "final solution."

All the thousands of families who have lost limbs and loved ones, their homes, their dreams, and have been walking around in depleted uranium....ensuring thousands of long-term illnesses and birth defects, which will ruin even the lives of those who aren't here yet.

Six million at the hands of Hitler....How many million Iraqis, now and in the past and in the future, will be devastated by bush? Even if the final total is a couple of million fewer than Hitler, the comparison isn't hysterical...the comparison is accurate.

:kick::kick::kick::kick:

[Carolina]

50. exactly, loudsue

I shudder to think of all those innocents in Iraq, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Chile ... eliminated or devastated because of Ronnie, Poppy and Jr. They are Nazis and Reagan even honored the SS.

:kick:

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

45. I agree to Flash Harry's statement.

[Voltaire99]

62. Quantity rules, then, in your book of Big Bad Evil?

Evil, or "pure evil," as you charmingly call it, does not consist in setting box office records.

Both Reagan and Bush enacted policies or gave support to causes that led to the murder of innocents: Reagan in places as various as Central America (where he funded death squads) and East Timor (where he backed brutal occupation) and South Africa (where he was an ardent supporter of apartheid), and Bush of course in Iraq.

If you understand nothing else, my friend, you must realize that murder is wrong. Committed by the state, murder is never singular. It comes in plurals. One hundred. One thousand. Seven million. Where does atrocity start? They are all of the same tree of evil, equally worthy to be condemned by the civilized and decent.

[Occulus]

65. nicely said.

They are all fruits of the same tree. The tree is poisonous, as is its fruit. In this case, the tree is hatred, pure and simple, of all that is different. Be it gay, Communist, Jewish, or brown of skin, these.... people will attack it if they can justify it in their small, self-centered minds.

I pity them, actually. They are missing much of what life has to offer.

[FlashHarry]

73. All presidents have engendered needless death.

There is no comparison--NONE--between any US president and Adolf Hitler. Period. End of story. To think otherwise is misguided at best. At worst it is tantamount to minimizing the unspeakable horror that was the Holocaust.

[Nihil]

75. Either lighten up or read a history book ...

> Period. End of story. To think otherwise is misguided at best.

Whichever you choose, please quit the sermons.
You have no more grasp on the ultimate truth than any other person
here so why try to pretend otherwise?

> ... tantamount to minimizing the unspeakable horror ...

:eyes:
On second thoughts, stay serious and read more than one history book.
It will do you more good than lightening up.

[Mokito]

76. Fascism/Nazism is not defined by the quantity of executions.

Nor is it defined by the cruelty of those executions. This is in no way saying that this should be overseen or disregarded, but they do not make the core-policies of fascism, or communism for that matter.
The following fact-sheet about fascism/Nazism sent shivers down my spine when put into today's context:


Definition

The word fascism has come to mean any system of government resembling Mussolini's, that exalts nation and often race above the individual, and uses violence and modern techniques of propaganda and censorship to forcibly suppress political opposition, engages in severe economic and social regimentation, and espouses nationalism and sometimes racism (ethnic nationalism). Nazism is usually considered as a kind of fascism, but it should be understood that although Nazism sought the state's purpose in serving an ideal to valuing what its content should be; its people, race, and the social engineering of these aspects of culture to the ends of the greatest possible prosperity for them at the expense of all else (an 'introverted' socialism). Mussolini's Fascism held to the ideology that all of these factors existed to serve the state and that it wasn't necessarily in the state's interest to serve or engineer any of these particulars within its sphere as any priority. The only purpose of the government under Fascism proper was to value itself as the highest priority to its culture in just being the state in itself, the larger scope of which, the better, and for these reasons it can be said to have been a governmental statolatry. While Nazism was a metapolitical form of socialist statism seeing itself only as a utility by which an allegorical condition of its people was its goal, Fascism was a squarely anti-socialist form of statism that existed by virtue and as an ends in and of itself.

As a political science, the philosophical pretext to the literal Fascism of the historical Italian type believes the state's nature is superior to that of the sum of the individual's comprising it, and that they exist for the state rather than the state existing to serve them. The resources individuals provide from participating in the community are conceived as a productive duty of individual progress serving an entity greater than the sum of its parts. therefore all individual's business is the state's business, the state's existence is the sole duty of the individal. In its Corporativist model of totalitarian but private management the various functions of the state were trades conceived as individualized entities making that state, and that it is in the state's interest to oversee them for that reason, but not direct them or make them public by the rationale that such functioning in government hands undermines the development of what the state is. Private activity is in a sense contracted to the state so that the state may suspend the infrastructure of any entity in accord to their usefulness and direction, or health to the state.

...

Fascism, in many respects, is an ideology of negativism: anti-liberal, anti-Communist, anti-democratic, anti-egalitarian, etc. As a political and economic system in Italy, it combined elements of corporatism, totalitarianism, nationalism, and anti-communism.

Much, much more at http://www.fact-index.com/f/fa/fascism.html

[StandUpGuy]

77. YET !!! eom

[Tripmann]

78. Hope I don't get the chance to be proven right

'But he hasn't come close to exterminating an entire people in any sort of "final solution."'

Yep, but if he gets back in for another 4 years he won't have to worry about opinion polls or re-election. Then we will see just what this administration is capable of.

Tripmann

[Gore1FL]

71. How can you hope someone will die

yet hold fast to the liberal belief that the Death penalty is wrong?

If you do believe the Death Penatly is wrong, how can you ever judge someone to deserve death?

Did the Liberal son of Reagan, Ron Reagan Jr. deserve to lose his father? Is it wrong for him to mourn his father?

If you can't have compassion for Ronald W. Reagan, can you not find it for his grieving Democratic son?

Lets take it a step further. I never cared for Nancy Reagan. You know wha, though -- she stuck to the side of her husband during the entirety of his decline. In my book, that speaks volumes.

The hateful attitiudes I see here are so contrary to every liberal belief I have.

If you can't find the comnpasion for the man himself, nor his wife, nor his children, then perhaps you should find it for yourself less you become the embodiemnt of all that you oppose.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[minkyboodle]

59. question

Have you met your daily quota for righteous indignation yet??
Just wondering :)

[DrWeird]

2. LOL

That's great.

[peekaloo]

3. man

I hate it when concerts peak before the encore(s).

:evilgrin:

[Walt Starr]

4. Guess I'll have to buy some Morrisey CD's

Just like I did with the Dixie Chicks CD's!

[Rich Hunt]

23. Get 'The Queen is Dead'!

:evilgrin:

[Nlighten1]

35. Excellent CD.

One of The Smith's best!

[tnlefty]

5. An even bigger cheer followed....

But doesn't everyone love the pResident?

[TheBlob]

6. Sure, Morrissey can say that

He doesn't have to worry about Bush being immortalized in HIS country!

FACT: The day Bush dies in office is the day we NEVER get rid of him.

[R Hickey]

37. Damn true.

I remember the day Elvis Presley died. I couldn't stand him, and I thought to myself "now I won't have to listen to his music anymore."

Boy was I wrong.

[phrenzy]

7. Moz Rules

God bless Moz - He says what the fuck he wants.

His new album "You Are The Quarry" is awesome too. And he actually has something to say about the world in it.

[Fenris]

8. Alright, Mozzer!

:)

[Kolesar]

9. "Big mouth strikes again"

For all you Smiths fans out there.

[myrna minx]

27. That's exactly what I was thinking.

Big mouth..lah dah dah dah dah...big mouth strikes again...

[markses]

31. And I've got no right to take my place

with the human race...

[phrenzy]

11. Georgie On The Guillotine

Maybe he'll dedicate a song to Shrub as he did to the queen and to Margaret Thatcher.

[Lori Price CLG]

12. Excellent comment by Morrissey!!

Also from the article... "Fan Tony Murray said: 'He commented about the death of Ronald Reagan and when he wished that it was George W instead the crowd went wild.'"

Yes, Dictator Bush is hated throughout the world.

:)-Lori Price
http://www.legitgov.org/

[Merlin]

15. Too bad. The one with the better mental processes should have survived.

Instead we're left with W.

[Heddi]

16. oooh I love morrissey

And to think I thought it was impossible to love him any more than I already did.

A few years ago, my husband gave me permission to carry Morrissey's love child. Unfortunately, my emails have gone unanswered.....

[Gloria]

18. Read in the Irish Times yesterday that one Irish politician is advising

Bush to steer clear of Ireland during some visit or other, somewhere, sometime in the future! (LOL)

I obviously don't remember the details...except for the one about Bush not being very welcome...

[Kolesar]

21. read the other thread about 500,000 protestors in Italy

A president often travels overseas to get some publicity and boost his ratings, but it won't work for this guy. He will become so that he has to stay at home.

[David__77]

20. Morrissey is a tory.

A small "t" tory--that is, British nationalist. However, he recognized the perversity of the Reagan/Thatcher political axis.

[Moderator]

22. A friendly message from your friendly moderator

Please bear in mind the DU rules when posting in this thread. Specifically, the one that looks like this:

Please do not post messages or jokes that could be construed as advocating harm or death to the president, or that could be construed as advocating violent overthrow of the government of the United States. The Secret Service is not known for its sense of humor.

Link to DU rules

Thanks, everyone.

[Alpharetta]

29. ClearChannel bans Morrissey!

ClearChannel banned the #1 country act, the Dixie Chicks, and then the dumb twits bemoan the demise of country station ratings.

They'd ban Morrissey too, if they had any idea what his music was.

I wish it had been ClearChannel that died. Can I say that?:)

[NewYorkerfromMass]

33. Ahhhh.... the last of the famous international playboys

still at it! I Love you Morrisey!

[Nlighten1]

34. President in a coma...

I know
I know
It's not really serious

[gvi]

41. Democrats supported Reagan as well

1. When Reagan began his political career he was a democrat.
2. When he was elected in 1980 he carried 44 states and a vast majority of the popular vote.
3. When he was re-elected in 1984 he carried 49 states only surrenduring Mondale's home state of Minnesota.


The man was elected by Democrats as well as Republicans unless anyone here thinks the majority of us Americans are conservative. If you did not agree with everything he did, so be it. There is no need for such hate filled words. The same goes for Dubya. I just want to see him out of office, not dead. I'm a better person than those who wish harm to others.

Gvi

[thebigidea]

43. so... what about that Saddam Hussein, huh?

[TheWatcher]

46. Moz is a bit dissappointed with America right now.

He really lays it out in his new song.....

America your head's too big, Because America, Your belly's too big
And I love you, I just wish you'd stay where you is

In America, The land of the free, they said, And of opportunity, In a just and a truthful way
But where the president, Is never black, female or gay, And until that day
You've got nothing to say to me, To help me believe

In America, It brought you the hamburger, Well America you know where, You can shove your hamburger
And don't you wonder, Why in Estonia they say, Hey you, Big fat pig
You fat pig, You fat pig

Steely Blue eyes with no love in them, Scan The World,
And a humourless smile, With no warmth within, Greets the world
And I, I have got nothing, To offer you
No-no-no-no-no
Just this heart deep and true, Which you say you don't need

See with your eyes, Touch with your hands, please, Hear through your ears, Know in your soul, please
For haven't you me with you now?
And I love you, I love you, I love you, And I love you, I love you, I love you

-Morrissey "America Is Not The World"

[FleshCartoon]

47. And so you are.

But some of us aren't. Please stop inflicting your morality on others.

[Democat]

48. What does your post have to do with this thread? Dems don't support Bush!

What's your point?

Of are you just a post bot that posts the same pro-Reagan propaganda on every thread with the word "Reagan" in it? :)

[Nlighten1]

49. 95 to 3 says you might be wrong.

Never mind that though...we just need to elect Kerry.


:hi:

[gvi]

52. nothing really

I'm not even sure what a post bot is. And i don't believe that election statistics can really be considered propaganda. You're probably right that my post doesn't necessarily apply to the original thread, but i feel it fits with some of the replies. America voted for Reagan, not just his party. If everyone felt he was this evil in the 80's why did he get re-elected? You are correct in assuming that I admire him. It seems as though many of the people hating him so weren't even old enough to remember his presidency. Sorry for posting out of place.

Gvi

[Forkboy]

57. You're wrong on this

It seems as though many of the people hating him so weren't even old enough to remember his presidency.

Just the opposite,most of the hate comes from the people directly affected by his shitty ass policies.

And with a site called YoungVoters just how old would you be?

[fudge stripe cookays]

74. Your humility is overwhelming.

:eyes:

[nonkultur]

51. Stop me if you heard this one before

Morrisey has had some problems with homeland security recently.
I guess he has a good reason to vent.

Leading miserabilist and former Smiths front-man Morrissey has fallen foul of the Homeland Security dragnet, according to BBC radio reports. It is not yet clear whether or the US officials involved had listened to Meat is Murder, or whether they thought they had a match on notorious Manchester terror mastermind Anwar al-Morrissey.

[Voltaire99]

53. Stephen Merritt in the NY Times: Morrissey "best lyricist" in rock

But best or not, I guess this means Morrissey's going to have a little trouble with customs on his way back to LA, eh? ;-)

[markses]

58. Shoplifters of the world

Unite and take over
Shoplifter of the world
Hand it over
Hand it over
Hand it over....
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Best lyriscist in rock? You betcha!

[NewYorkerfromMass]

72. Ask...

"Because if it’s not love
Then it’s the bomb, the bomb, the bomb, the bomb, the bomb, the bomb, the bomb
That will bring us together..." (perfect for Reagan)

Yep. Brilliant.

[Dr Fate]

54. Having friends was so nice...ahhh the 90's...n/t

n/t

[gauguin57]

55. Moz had better watch it ...

... he lives in L.A. now. Dubya will send Ahnold out to rearrange his face (or Asscroft & goon squads to threaten his life).

[RummyTheDummy]

56. It proves yet again that Bush

Is easily the most internationally despised US president in history. I truly believe many throughout the world view him much the same way Hitler, Musolini et al are viewed.

[napi21]

60. Oh boy, first we changed the name of French fries to Freedon fries

let's see, there's Irish stew, Irish potatoes, Irish soda bread. We better start thinking of new names for all of those too!

[LiberalUprising]

61. Kick

Exactly what I was thinking

[JawJaw]

66. Gladiola Over !!

British music magazine 'Q' has a rather splendid Smiths special edition out at the moment. Overseas Smiths fans can get it online here


Do you think Mozza will get bothered by Homeland Security when (if) he is next allowed into the US? Is bright orange really 'his colour'?

Will he be able to resist mocking the customs officials as actor Stephen Fry did at Heathrow airport recently:

"Are you carrying any sharp objects?"
"Only my tongue, Sir"

[Heidi]

67. What was he thinking?

If Bush died, Cheney would ascend to the throne, which isn't exactly my idea of a capitol improvement.

[slor]

68. I knew I loved the Smiths for a reason...

greater than my teenage angst!

[WhiteTara]

79. But Poppy orchestrated the assasination attempt

so it would have been difficult to kill him off instead.

[suedehead-nyc]

80. moz is my fave...

morrissey is forever in a state of teen angst.
i love it.