Unusual sentences bring humiliation into legal process

[PfcHammer]

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/front/2617566

Unusual sentences bring humiliation into legal process
By ANDREW TILGHMAN
Copyright 2004 Houston Chronicle

A Harris County woman convicted this week of neglecting her horses was to be given only bread and water for part of her jail sentence, while a man convicted of illegally dumping hazardous waste was to drink a concoction of the toxic sludge.

Sex offenders in Corpus Christi were ordered three years ago to put up signs in their yards and bumper stickers on their cars indicating their crimes. And a Michigan teenage rap fan was ordered in 2000 to listen to Wayne Newton for violating a loud-radio ordinance.

The use of unorthodox and attention-grabbing sentences has become more popular in recent years, as experts say judges around the country have begun seeking alternatives to simple incarceration, turning to humiliation, rehabilitation or punishments tailored to have an impact on a defendant.

"People are saying, `Look, we are spending a lot of money in incarceration. Maybe now we need to get more creative and bring humiliation into the punishment process," said Mark Osler, a criminal law professor at the Baylor Law School in Waco.

[7th_Sephiroth]

1. remember there are laws against

CUREL and/or UNUSUAL punishment, that judge just gave that horse woman an instant appeal, the courts have shown that what she did to the horse(the bread and water thing is what she did to her horses) was cruel to a horse, so should it be to a human, and it is verry unusual for a judge to divert from the prison's meal plan in sentanceing

[Bluzmann57]

2. The kid who had to listen to(gulp) Wayne Newton

Now THAT was cruel and unusual punishment.

[7th_Sephiroth]

3. he probably tuned it out

1 hour of wayne newton or pay $1,000

[oldshoe]

4. Wayne Newton, yech

Soon we can expect the stocks, tarring and feathering, and why not burning at the stake?

Why not create FOX III, specifically for televising public humiliation. Think of the fun FOXes fans will have seeing two white aryran notorcycle gangsmen facing off an iontercity black man in an arean with Roman-era weapons! Feed Black Muslims to the lions!

The American Theocracy will come into its own!

[Redhead488]

5. Giving her bread and water

for three whole days isn't going to harm her...unlike what she did to those horses.

[7th_Sephiroth]

6. the point is

that her actions were labeled cruel, and thus doing to her what she had done to the horse MUST ergo be Cruel

[Redhead488]

7. No

Duration has a LOT to do with the "cruelness" of this action. Three days of bread and water is not cruel in my humble opinion.

[7th_Sephiroth]

8. but is it

in the eyes of the apellate court, its not the results of the bread and water, but the act of it that is the issue

[TexasBushwhacker]

13. Well, unless she appeals

the eyes of the appellate court aren't really an issue. These "creative" sentences may be pushing the limits of "cruel and unusual", but the criminal always has the option to appeal and I believe the creative sentences are given as an option vs. jail time.

The thing is, for many people, jail time is no big deal. I had a 18 hour educational experience with the jail system because of a very old, long forgotten traffic ticket and the officer that pulled me over just really had a hard-on to throw me in the pokey. But that's another story.

The thing is, most of the women that were in there had been in jail before and many of them were looking at "jail vs. probation" for their offenses. Most of them thought a relatively short jail sentence was a pretty good gig, rather than being on probation for a couple of years. These creative sentences are for generally for people who've been in jail before and don't seem to think it's a big deal. As long as it's not CRUEL, I think the judges are just looking for a punishment that's more effective and I say more power to 'em.

[Voice_of_Europe]

11. Equal... or not so equal

We are all eaqual.
We all have dignity.
And we all deserve equal punishment for equal crimes!

This water and bread stuff is just chicanery.
Judges have way too much freedom in INTERPRETING the law.

[Nevernose]

21. Interpreting the law

has been a judge's job since the days of the Roman republic. High school civics revisited: legislatures make the law, the executive branch enforces the law, the judiciary interprets the law.

The problem here isn't so much that the judges were misnterpreting the law; the judges here were just making shit up.

[sally343434]

9. It's a stunt

Why don't they just bring back the public pillory? It shouldn't be long now before we have hands being amputated for stealing an apple.

[ugarte]

10. I only wish you were joking

Without too much imagination one can see adulterers and homosexuals singled out for special puiblic humiliation.

[Philostopher]

12. Not entirely sure how I feel about it, but ...

Ohio has started using the 'scarlet letter' (literally -- it's a goldenrod colored plate with bright red letters) license plates for DUI offenders. I've seen a few of them. I don't know if it's a 'first offense' thing, or if these are recidivist offenders, but I know exactly what it's about. I think, if they're running it the way other states run it, that they offer the plate as an option for a first offense -- instead of jail time. It would seem to fall in the same category as the rest of this stuff -- and some of the first 'activist' judges who imposed these odd punishments were right here in Ohio, though appellate courts often overruled them. The DUI plates are a state punishment, though.

[struggle4progress]

15. First timers

Law gets tougher on drunken drivers
<snip>
The bill also makes a needed adjustment to a provision in January's OVI law that required first-time offenders to display a special drunken-driver license plate on their cars. Judges now will have some discretion in such cases, unless an offender is convicted of driving at more than twice the legal blood-alcohol limit of 0.08.
<snip>
http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/06/04/editorial_dui.html

[On the Road]

14. Incarceration by Itself is Clearly Not the Answer

I sympathize with the judges' instincts.

I have known serial criminals who just shrug when people warn them about jail. Their attitude is "I'm not afraid of the police." They repeatedly commit crimes and get away scot-free, and occasionally get free room and board in jail for a short time. It's a major problem with the justice system in this county, and it's the frustration of being impotent against repeat offenders that sometimes leads police to commit abuse.

I do believe in prohibiting cruelty, but none of these examples qualifies. Public shame is not necessarily a bad form of punishment. May not always work, but for some people the DUI license plate may be a more effective deterrent than the threat of jail time. And the judge should have leeway in exercising a punishment suited to the criminal and not just the crime.

[struggle4progress]

16. Hmmm. "On Tuesday, he ordered Bernard Oczkowski to drink ...

a concoction of toxic sludge." I'm torn!

[struggle4progress]

17. dupe

edit: delete

[Bandit]

18. While this may be appropriate I think it is unconstitutional

"while a man convicted of illegally dumping hazardous waste was to drink a concoction of the toxic sludge."
Isn't there a clause against cruel and unusual punishment? This turns my stomach as much as the torture of Iraqis

[On the Road]

19. I'm Not Agreeing with the Specific Remedy So Much

as I can see the rationale of judges doing this. He should not be made to poison himself, even if he poisoned others.

[Bandit]

22. Now if I was selling pot and he made me smoke some as punishment

:shrug: :+

[samhonk]

20. Why not end the war on drugs

and make room in the prisons for real criminals? Nonviolent drug offenders don't belong in there.