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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 11:17 AM
Original message
Bush Noncommittal on Saddam Handover
Edited on Tue Jun-15-04 11:34 AM by bobthedrummer
He says he will turn Saddam over to Iraq when there is "appropriate security"- leaving out timetable based on June 30th.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4207543,00.html
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DavidDavid Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'm amazed
that Saddam is still alive...I'll bet he could tell some real good stories about rummy and the BFEE. I hope he squeals like a pig if he ever gets away from these criminals.
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jono Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Hi DavidDavid!
Welcome to DU!

:hi:
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. Hi DavidDavid!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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pinniped Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. Sadaam's transport will probably be taken out by a shoulder...
fired guided missile or RPG. US personnel will no doubt be sacrificed in this mission to protect the secret dealings of the * regime.

This act will be blamed on so-called "insurgents" even though the orders came from some POS who lives a miserable life in an underground bunker.
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Unperson 309 Donating Member (836 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. WELCOME To DU, davidDavid!
Huzzah! Sit down and enjoy!

309

:bounce: :hi: :bounce: :hi: :bounce:
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. Welcome home David
Glad to see that you found us.
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mountainvue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
19. I suspect
the security issues they are worried about will come to pass and that will be the end of Saddam.
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'm surprpised he doesn't have Saddam
mounted on the wall next to his gun in the trophy room. Saddam's the property of the US government....won him fair and square.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I would love to see the new Iraqi president ask for that gun back...
as evidence, if and when they get saddam turned over to them.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
5. Regime Change
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
6. Only if they guarantee he won't escape
I heard on the radio news this morning that Bush said the Iraqis must assure that Saddam won't escape before we'll turn him over. How does a government guarantee that???
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
7. Iraq Plans to Charge Saddam Before U.S. Hand Over
Edited on Tue Jun-15-04 02:42 PM by seemslikeadream
“I suspect that there will be an arrest warrant filed not only against Saddam but also against the other high-ranking officials before June 30,” said Salem Chalabi, the official in charge of setting up a tribunal to charge members of the ousted regime.
“We have been working quite hard in the last few days on that, believe me,” Chalabi said.

Chalabi said that he believes Iraqi authorities will have premises for holding Saddam if and when he is handed over by the Americans, who have been holding the former dictator at an undisclosed location in Iraq since he was arrested in December.

The International Committee of the Red Cross has indicated that under international law, Saddam must be charged or released after the formal end of the occupation since he was detained as a prisoner of war.

The six month-old Iraqi Special Tribunal which Chalabi is organising has struggled to put appropriate security safeguards in place.


Judges have refused to work for the tribunal after five potential candidates were killed since Saddam was toppled from power last year. Tens of millions of pounds have been spent on security alone.
Interim President Ghazi al-Yawer said that his government’s top priority would be regaining security in Iraq and rehabilitating Iraqi security institutions.

more
http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3069107

Iraq: Plans For Saddam Hussein's Trial Advance, But Many Details Uncertain

The U.S. cable television network CNN today quoted its sources at the Pentagon as saying they are not aware of any immediate plans for Washington to hand over prisoners to Baghdad. The unidentified U.S. military officials say they expect U.S. forces to continue to hold Saddam and thousands of other prisoners, even after the Iraqi government assumes sovereignty on 30 June.

more
http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2004/06/2e4979fd-08f8-4284-bb35-dabfbbd63df6.html


BAGHDAD : The United States dashed the hopes of the new Iraqi government by refusing to set a date for the handover of Saddam Hussein, as an attack on a key oil pipeline virtually halted exports of the country's lifeline commodity

Foreign ministers from Muslim countries met in Istanbul to decide whether to support the new government, with the summit including discussions between officials from Iraq's six neighbours and Egypt.

After the meeting of the Organisation of the Islamic Conference Turkish Foreign Minister Abdullah Gul said the six countries wanted the "full" transfer of sovereignty to the new Iraqi government at the end of June, the handover date.

As well as Iraqi officials, representatives from Iran, Jordan, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey and Egypt attended the gathering.
more
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_world/view/90160/1/.html
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Salem Chalabi is Ahmed's nephew-Salem had the authority to approve
Iraq "contractors".

Friends of the family
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1048205,00.html
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. CIA Accused Of Bank Heist
The CIA and the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) are accused by International Currency Review, the London-based journal, of mounting a joint ultra-secret operation to electronically remove an estimated $10 billion out of the Iraqi Central Bank hours before the start of Persian Gulf War II. The whereabouts of the money is not known.

“We believe it is in a secret CIA fund which will be used to mount further special services operations, such as tracking down Saddam Hussein,” said the Review’s publisher, Christopher Story.

Story is a former financial advisor to Lady Thatcher when she was Britain’s prime minister. In the past 10 years, he has testified before several congressional committees dealing with financial scandals.

DIA coordinates all intelligence for the Joint Chiefs of Staff. It is headquartered in the Pentagon.

The report is titled “The Great Robbery of the Central Bank of Iraq.” It has been sent to finance ministers of leading nations, the World Bank, the Bank of England and heads of all other major banks.

The report is bound to cause huge embarrassment to President Bush after he signed an executive order on March 23, ordering a worldwide hunt for the hidden assets of Saddam Hussein and his family.

The Review claims that using skilled hackers recruited by the DIA and key Iraqi bank officials who had been bribed to provide secret access codes to the Central Bank’s accounts for Saddam Hussein and his family, the money was transferred out of the bank in a high-tech operation.

According to the General Accounting Office (GAO), the investigative agency of Congress, Saddam was estimated to have accumulated “$6.6 billion between 1997 and 2000 from illegal oil smuggling and from illicit deals connected with the United Nations oil for food program.”

But a substantial portion of that money may have been lifted by the secret CIA/DIA operation.

The operation, claims the Review, was masterminded by the CIA/DIA out of a military facility, Redstone Arsenal, in Alabama. It is the base for U.S. Special Ser vices.

“The money was laundered through a number of CIA controlled accounts, including some held in the Discount Bank of Israel, Credit Suisse in Switzerland and the Dresdner Bank in Germany,” said Story.

He confirmed that Germany’s secret service Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND) is checking with the major German banks on electronic transfers, which could match the $10 billion.

http://www.americanfreepress.net/Bank_Heist.html

International Currency Review

Now where have I heard that name before

Business links- involving "the mobilization of trillions of dollars" - by President Bush's father and his brother Neil, were under investigation by America's top spy catcher, Paul Redmond, when he resigned.

A well-placed Washington intelligence source said that Redmond quit after a White House meeting with Vice President Cheney and Attorney General John Ashcroft.

They are known as "The Enforcers" - ensuring there is no taint on the reputation of the increasingly embattled President with the failure to find any weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

In a document obtained by the respected London-based International Currency Review, it was claimed that after a year long investigation, it had uncovered evidence "of the mobilization of trillions of dollars in 1989-91". The document names a number of banks it alleges were "supervised by the Bush Sr. White House" in the alleged transactions.

"What will cause astonishment is the provence of some of these compromising documents........ We checked these possibilities repeatedly with experts and also consulted banking sources to see whether these documents could possibility be fraudulent. The outcome of these investigations was unequivocally that the documents is genuine.".....Story claimed that the documents were leaked by the Iraqis to "discredit President Bush Sr." as Saddam began to realize that George bush was preparing for war against Iraq.

American Freedom News
Gordon Thomas

Ronnie & Saddam

In 1982, as the Iran-Iraq war began to hot up, the USA quietly took Iraq off the State Department’s list of states that supported terrorism. This allowed money to start flowing from America into Saddam’s coffers.

Rumsfeld was accompanied on his Baghdad trip by Howard Teicher, the then US National Security Advisor. In 1995, Teicher lodged a sworn declaration in the US district court in the Southern district of Florida, saying: “While a staff member to the National Security Council, I was responsible for the Middle East and for political-military affairs. During my five years’ tenure on the National Security Council, I had regular contact with both CIA director William Casey and deputy director Robert Gates … Casey personally spearheaded the effort to ensure that Iraq had sufficient military weapons, ammunition and vehicles to avoid losing the Iran-Iraq war ... In 1986, President Reagan sent a secret message to Saddam Hussein telling him that Iraq should step up its air war and bombing of Iran. Similar strategic advice was passed to Saddam Hussein through meetings with European and Middle Eastern heads of state.”

Joyce Battle said that after this gentle scolding, the State Department was asked if Iraq’s CW programme would have “any effect on US recent initiatives to expand commercial relationships with Iraq across a broad range”. A State Department official said: “No. I’m not aware of any change in our position. We’re interested in being involved in a closer relationship with Iraq.”

By September 1984, the USA’s Defence Intelligence Agency found Iraq was continuing to develop its “formidable” CW arsenal and would “probably pursue nuclear weapons”.

Iran lodged a draft resolution with the UN asking the world to condemn Saddam for his use of poison gas, banned internationally by the Geneva Protocols. US diplomats began asking friendly nations to go for a “no decision” ruling. The US also said it was ready to abstain.

more
http://www.sundayherald.com/42648


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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. The CIA and Its Secret Experiments


The CIA and Its Secret Experiments

with MKULTRA & Germ Warfare.

America’s Great State Secret

by

Gordon Thomas

MINDFIELD

· Sensational never-seen-before documents from inside the White House, CIA and other agencies.

· Reveals the documentary evidence that links US Vice-President Dick Cheney and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld to the cover-up of the death of top CIA scientist, Frank Olson.



· Explains how the CIA financed a ruthless and systematic assault of the human psyche – using a British-born psychiatrist to spearhead the assault.

· Names other world renowned physicians who were involved in the most sinister research programme ever created by any United States government – and its secret partner – the British government.

· Reveals how a woman was programmed to become a CIA assassin.

· Describes how a CIA chemist was murdered by his own colleagues after he had turned to the one man he thought he could trust – a London psychiatrist engaged in similar work.

· Reveals how “expendables” – the CIA generic name for those selected for killing – were secretly murdered after they had been experimented on in Europe.


“Meticulously researched, Mindfield is a deeply disturbing story of hideous government experiments using drugs and behavioural modification. Teaching hospitals on both sides of the Atlantic were used. Many of the doctors who performed those experiments remain in high office today and still conduct those experiments with impunity. Mindfield is a terrifying warning how easy it is for elected governments to sanction secret experiments to control human behaviour. Gordon Thomas has meticulously taken us from incredulity to awareness of the Machiavellian lengths our governments go to in our unsuspecting name. This remarkable book is essential reading for all those in a trusted role to care for people. In every sense it is an outstanding text that reveals the darker side of medicine.”

Professor Anne White
M.C.S.P. Bsc M.D. F.R.C.P.A.
Assistant Clinical Professor of Medicine
Department of Psychiatry
McMaster University, Canada


http://www.gordonthomas.ie/mindfield.htm
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Into how Saddam and bin Laden obtained state of the art U.S. software
Edited on Tue Jun-15-04 05:43 PM by seemslikeadream

Bush names top Homeland execs
BY Judi Hasson
March 14, 2003 Printing? Use this version.
Email this to a friend.


"Top Homeland hires considered"
President Bush March 13 named two experienced men in the intelligence field for top jobs in the new Homeland Security Department.

One is a 30-year CIA veteran who tracked down CIA spy Aldrich Ames, and the other is the chief information security executive at the Coca-Cola Co.

Bush said he intends to appoint Robert Liscouski as assistant secretary for infrastructure protection, the division in the department responsible for protecting critical computer systems from cyberattacks and buildings from physical attacks.

Liscouski currently serves as the director of information assurance for the global soft drink manufacturer, and he also is director of the CIA's Intelligence Science Board.

Earlier in his career, he served as a diplomatic security service special agent at the State Department and as a criminal investigator for the Bergen (N.J.) County prosecutor's office.

Bush also named CIA veteran Paul Redmond as assistant secretary for information analysis, the Homeland Security division in charge of sifting through databases and other electronic information to find signs of terrorist activity.

Redmond currently serves as a consultant to CIA Director George Tenet. He spent more than 30 years with the intelligence organization, both domestically and overseas.

During his tenure, Redmond managed the CIA's extensive counterintelligence organization. He oversaw the counterintelligence aspects of personnel, computer systems and physical plants in the United States and abroad, and supervised the support provided by the CIA to the private sector relating to commercial counterespionage. He was instrumental in the apprehension of Aldrich Ames, a CIA employee convicted of espionage.

Bush has yet to name the undersecretary for information analysis and infrastructure protection. But he is likely to tap New York City's counterterrorism director, Frank Libutti, according to sources.

Libutti, a retired Marine Corps lieutenant general, took on the New York City post Jan. 16, 2002. His paperwork has been sent to the White House for the homeland security job, but a background check is pending, according to sources.

more
http://www.fcw.com/fcw/articles/2003/0310/web-home-03-14-03.asp

> He was told to investigate how Robert Hanssen, the renegade FBI computer specialist who was a long-time Soviet agent, had handed over a copy of the software - known as Promis - to his KGB controllers for $2 million.

> Hanssen, now serving a life sentence for his treachery, has yet to reveal all he knows about how the KGB sold on a copy of the software to Osama bin Laden for $4 million shortly before the attacks on the Twin Towers and the Pentagon.

> "But until Redmond's abrupt resignation, increasingly the documents relating to Saddam's use of Promis - and his relationship with President Bush's father - were what Redmond had begun to focus on", said a source close to the departed spy catcher.

> Originally developed by a small company in Washington called Inslaw, there are now a number of versions of the software. > One version was installed by MI6 early in the 1990s. After Hanssen's arrest, the software was removed. Germany's intelligence service, BND, did the same to its version of the software - supplied by the CIA in 1993.

> William Hamilton, the president of Inslaw, said that top Bush aides and FBI director Robert Mueller had met to discuss the "implications" of Redmond's investigation.

> "Redmond has said that Hanssen did hundreds of billions of dollars worth of damage. I have been told that Redmond's health is fine and there is a much more important reason for his resignation", said Mr Hamilton.


more
http://www.apfn.net/messageboard/7-09-03/discussion.cgi.43.html

Why doesn't anyone talk about Paul Redmond?
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
11. they'll pry Saddam out of Bush's cold dead fingers
the Iraqis are going to realize what so many people who have tried negotiating with Bush have realized, that he is a liar and a cheat and a stonewaller and that in order to get Saddam, Iraq will have to take him by force.

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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
13. Maybe it's a good thing. Bush* has set a precedent for world powers to
invade a nation which is under the control of a lawless criminals, capture said lawless criminals, imprison said captured criminals for however long the leaders of the invading force sees fit.

Hello, Canada? If you guys aren't too busy just now...
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gulliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
18. Trying to turn one bump into two.
If Bush turns over Saddam the day that "sovereignty" begins, it's just one "positive" story. Much better to turn over sovereigny, then wait a month, then turn over Saddam.

I can almost hear him making the announcement. "After last month's successful turnover of power to the new, sovereign government of Iraq, the United States can now -- confidently -- turn over Saddam Hussein to the Iraqi people so that they can do justice to him. I am convinced that the security situation has improved to the point where Iraq's new government can take custody of this tyrant."
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