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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 06:35 PM
Original message
North Korea-Iran Preparing a Joint Nuclear Denotation (Japanese paper)
Sankei Shimbun is described by the Wikipedia as "Rightist and Conservative...the nationalist's paper," so this could be nothing but disinformation from its military contacts. Which would be a story in itself.

Quoting a military source well-acquainted with news concerning North Korea, the Sankei Shimbun reported on June 15 that six representatives, including an Iranian nuclear physicist, visited North Korea last month to prepare for a joint experiment for a nuclear triggering device.

This paper announced that the Iranian nuclear-related representatives, including a physicist and computer experts who are visiting North Korea will stay for six months and execute a detonation experiment using neutrons while utilizing the related equipments of North Korea.

This paper further added, “This experiment is to investigate the fluctuations of highly dense neutrons that cause nuclear disruption” and added, “Data obtained through this experiment is vital in manufacturing nuclear bombs.”

After pointing out that Iran currently does not possess technology to micro-computerize data of the nuclear experiment on its own, the source asserted, “(Iran) must have judged that they needed North Korea’s cooperation for having advanced in nuclear development.”

http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?bicode=060000&biid=2004061672378
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. Sounds like the chimp created an "axis of self defense"
If this story is true, and who knows these days. Also, this is not a nuclear detonation, although understanding matters concerning chain reactions and neutron flux would be important in both peaceful and military applications of nuclear energy. So, this may just be scare mongering.
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-16-04 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #1
15. Nothing about this on the Sankei website, but.....
there is an interesting article in the Sankei today about Deputy Secretary of Defense Boulton stating that Japan can cancel its February agreement with Iran to develop the Azadegan oil field "if it is concluded that Iran is developing nuclear weapons"

Makes one go "Hmmmmmmmmmm"

http://www.sankei.co.jp/news/040616/kok043.htm
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oneighty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
2. Very misleading headline
generating neutrons is a far piece from fission.

180
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
3. Wow! Suddenly a gaggle of scary stories on Iran:
Edited on Tue Jun-15-04 06:53 PM by struggle4progress
Iran preparing to invade Iraq, Iran preparing nuke with N Korea, ...

You think the Bushistas might be planning to attack Iran next?

<edit> Here's another one:

IRAN ESTABLISHES SUICIDE ARMY
<snip>
Iranian officials and media reports said the Islamic republic has drafted more than 10,000 would-be suicide bombers over the last few weeks. They said young Iranians, including seminary students, have signed up to become suicide attackers against targets in such places as Chechnya, Iraq, Israel and Europe.

The Iranian effort came amid Western pressure on Teheran to halt its nuclear weapons program. The International Atomic Energy Agency has been meeting in Vienna and determined that Iran has not fulfilled the agency's demands for full compliance.

"In a world in which the weak are downtrodden and we are exposed to various threats, we can not defend our dignity without focusing our attention to our defense buildup," Iranian President Mohammed Khatami said during a tour of military facilities on June 13. "Access to knowledge and technical know-how in the military and non-military arenas is the prerequisite for safeguarding our achievements."
<snip>
http://www.menewsline.com/stories/2004/june/06_16_3.html
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
4. China says false it helps Iran, N.Korea on weapons
Beijing today rejected a US report that it had sent nuclear technology to Iran and allowed North Korea to ship missiles and other weapons via China.

The U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission said this week China delivered nuclear technology to Iran in exchange for oil and allowed North Korea to use Chinese air, rail and seaports to ship missiles and other weapons.
<snip>

The Bush administration has emphasised a growing convergence with Beijing on halting the spread of weapons of mass destruction and countering terrorism, but the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission took a much harder line.

Zhang, however, said China's position on non-proliferation was clear and Beijing punished firms that broke laws regulating export of sensitive material.
http://www.deepikaglobal.com/ENG4_sub.asp?ccode=ENG4&newscode=57195
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I like the CIA cover of the US help to Pak and their help to Iran
:-)
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teryang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Cheney concealed Pak. nuke proliferation
...for years and then rewarded them handsomely for that and international terrorist campaign as soon as he got back into office.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. BCCI and Pakistani Nuclear Hero
Edited on Tue Jun-15-04 09:46 PM by seemslikeadream
Pakistan's Nuclear Hero Defended
by Jefferson Morley

"Washington and Islamabad," says the Delhi-based daily, are "holding their breath" to see if Khan "will spill the beans about Pakistan's offical complicity in the spread of nuclear weapons technology."

Pakistan proceeded to spend some $10 billion developing a nuclear arsenal, say the editors of the Times of India. The money came from Libya, Saudia Arabia, Iraq, the United Arab Emirates and the depositors of the BCCI. The bank, says the editors of the Times of India, was founded by a Pakistani and operated freely in the Persian Gulf oil enclave of Dubai. It is inconceivable, they argue, that Western intelligence agencies didn't know all about this black market.

In other words, was the United States totally clueless while a Pakistani scientist supplied nuclear technology to Iran and North Korea.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8262-2004Feb3_2.html

"The case of the Nuclear Triggers"

http://www.btinternet.com/~nlpwessex/Documents/kissingeriraq.htm

http://www.pepeace.org/current_reprints/03/The_Nuclear_Arsenal.htm


<http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/04/international/04NUKE.html?hp >

The Pakistani leaders who denied for years that scientists at the country's secret A. Q. Khan Research Laboratories were peddling advanced nuclear technology must have been averting their eyes from a most conspicuous piece of evidence: the laboratory's own sales brochure, quietly circulated to aspiring nuclear weapons states and a network of nuclear middlemen around the world.

The cover bears an official-looking seal that says "Government of Pakistan" and a photograph of the father of the Pakistani bomb, Abdul Qadeer Khan. It promotes components that were spinoffs from Pakistan's three-decade-long project to build a nuclear stockpile of enriched uranium, set in a drawing that bears a striking resemblance to a mushroom cloud.

In other nations, such sales would be strictly controlled. But Pakistan has always played by its own rules.

As investigators unravel the mysteries of the North Korean, Iranian and now the Libyan nuclear projects, Pakistan - and those it empowered with knowledge and technology they are now selling on their own - has emerged as the intellectual and trading hub of a loose network of hidden nuclear proliferators.
On the day of the Indian nuclear tests, Henry Kissinger,

on his own accord, went to the CNN studios and justified the Indian tests on the ground that India was living in a tough neighourhood. He obviously knew what he was talking about.

In the light of Pakistan's state of industrial development, Islamabad will continue to need foreign black market imports for a long time to come to sustain its nuclear arsenal. There were recent reports of 800 spark gaps needed for triggers being bought in the US by a South African Jew, shipped to Dubai and then on to Pakistan.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/468709.cms

The secret empire of Dr. Khan

The incontrovertible truth is that Pakistan's nuclear programme in every aspect has been, and remains, under the firm and total control of its army at least since 1977; even its navy and air force have little role in it. Its clandestine nature relied on building a black market largely managed by trusted senior army (and ISI) officers and senior scientists in the nuclear establishment. Such people have undoubtedly been under a strong security and intelligence cover as much for their safety as to keep an eye on them. With a flourishing $2 billion-plus annual narcotics trade, and banks like the former Dubai-based Pakistani-owned "Outlaw Bank", the BCCI (Bank of Credit and Commerce International), and the Mehran Bank to manage the black market in narcotics, nuclear trade and tools for terrorism, there was obviously no dearth of unaccounted funds for the purpose. General Aslam Beg, the army chief in the late 1980's who controlled the nuclear programme, later publicly acknowledged receipt of hundreds of crores of unaccounted funds which he passed on to the ISI and President Ghulam Ishaq Khan.

http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=40361

Libya got its nuke blueprints from Pakistan...


..wonder who else has the blueprints...in this black market.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/04/politics/04NUKE.html

Warhead Blueprints Link Libya Project to Pakistan Figure
By WILLIAM J. BROAD and DAVID E. SANGER

Published: February 4, 2004

WASHINGTON, Feb. 3 — Twelve days ago, a 747 aircraft chartered by the United States government landed at Dulles Airport here carrying a single piece of precious cargo: a small box containing warhead designs that American officials believe were sold to Libya by the underground network linked to Abdul Qadeer Khan, the creator of the Pakistani bomb.

The warhead designs were the first hard evidence that the secret network provided its customers with far more than just the technology to turn uranium into bomb fuel. Libyan officials have told investigators that they bought the blueprints from dealers who are part of that network, apparently for more than $50 million. Those blueprints, along with the capability to make enriched uranium, could have given the Libyans all the elements they needed to make a nuclear bomb. What the Libyans purchased, in the words of an American weapons expert who has reviewed the program in detail, was both the kitchen equipment "and the recipes."....

also...

"...The last shipment of those parts to Libya was intercepted in October, which was several years after Washington began pressuring Mr. Musharraf's government to shut down the scientists at the Khan lab...."

OCTOBER??? 2 years after Pakistan became a "frontline ally" of USA in the war against terrorism?

BCCI funded Pakistan's nuclear bomb

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/05foreign.htm

"...the Pakistani BCCI Foundation was created as a means of sheltering BCCI profits from taxation. In 1981, it received tax-free status while Ishaq Khan was Pakistan's minister of finance. In turn, the foundation received BCCI's profits from Pakistani operations, and then used some of those profits to finance projects the Pakistani government wanted and could not pay for itself. For example, BCCI provided $10 million in grants in the late 1980's to finance an officially "private" science and technology institute named for Pakistani President Ishaq Khan, whose director, A. Qadir Khan, has been closely associated with Pakistan's efforts to build a nuclear bomb. The institute is believed by some experts to be the headquarters for Pakistan's efforts to build an Islamic bomb. In the same period, other BCCI officials were assisting Pakistanis in purchasing nuclear technologies paid for by Pakistani-front companies through BCCI-Canada.(94).."


From Outlaw Bank by Beatty and Gwynne.

They include this statement from Sheikh Kamal Adham, former head of Saudi intelligence, bro-in-law of late King Faisal, and shareholder in BCCI and First American Bank, who was speaking to an Arabic audience when admitted, in 1992, that "Pakistan had their own atomic bomb and that Abedi/BCCI had helped them get it.

...Kamal Adham was anticipating...indictment in the U.S. over BCCI fraud.

"So why would he want to call attention to all of this? The Western press aside, the wily old spy master certainly knew the intelligence agencies of the U.S. would pick up his remarks...He may have been sending a message directly to George Bush, reminding the president that Kamal Adham knew far too much to be trifled with.

in perspective...9-91. Morganthau was going after the powerful Saudi as one of the main culprits of the BCCI scandal. Morganthau kept quiet about his intentions to indict Adham AND SHEIKH KHALID BIN MAHFOUZ (in hopes to avoid state department inverventions.)

but when Kamal found out what was happening, he hired the former executive assistant of then White House Chief of Staff John Sununu...who had just (surprise...not) quit to go "private."

This publically brought the Bush administration into the BCCI scandal for the first time.

Beatty and Gwynne learned that Bush's White House was closely monitoring the BCCI investigation, insisting that a administration official sit in on congressional and justice dept. interviews with BCCI witnesses (does this sound familiar to anyone else?? ...the investigation into whistleblowing with Dubya).

some in the FBI complained the FBI probe was spinning its wheels because it was "too political" (again, sound familiar as an excuse to investigate the Bush lies to go to war with Iraq???)...and decisions were being held up in Washington.

A justice dept official complained Washington didn't really want the Atty Gen.'s office to actually return indictments. Washington (Bush) wanted to do an overall package deal, "'where we cut off the hands of a few Pakistanis and paint it as if they were really all the big folks.'"

Beatty and Gwynne go on to note that Bush Sr, lied and claimed he didn't know Adham. (who had been director of the CIA in 1976, WHEN GEORGE BUSH HEADED THE CIA).

The American agency had been "helping to modernize Saudi intelligence during Bush's tenure (oh, no conflict of interest there, huh, Zapata Oil?)

The authors also note that Bush was known as "the Saudi vice president" throughout the middle east. State dept said it was impossible for Bush not to have known Adham because he was the main man in S.A. when you making BIZ DEALS, as well as policy.

when asked about Bush's statement, Adham did not directly deny it, though Saudi's knew Adham's newphew, Sultan bin-Bandar was ambassador to the U.S. and was a frequent guest of Bush.

...but what about the nuclear weapons issue? Reagan, "intent on continuing military aid to Pakistan during the Afghanistan (mujahadeen/Osama bin Laden as Reagan's allies) war, turned a blind eye b/c U.S. law prohibited military aid or sale to nonnuclear countries known to be developing nuclear weapons.

In 88 and 89, Bush danced on the edge of truth about Pakistan, saying it did not "possess a nuclear explosive device" to justify continuing MASSIVE support for Pakistan, b/c Pak, bush said, only had "unassembled components."

As soon as Russia pulled out of Afghanistan, Bush said unassembled components violated the rules and cut off aid.

Beatty and Gwynne, in Time Magazine, were "the first to assert that BCCI was instrumental in Pakistan achieving unofficial Nuclear Club membership.

Via BCCI, Pakistan had received sophisticated American military technology that Congress NEVER AUTHORIZED. Adham's remarks re: an atmomic bomb may have been suggesting that it wouldn't be in the Bush administration's self-interest to probe too deeply into how Pakistan, and BCCI, came to possess such military capacity.

The Sheikh knew that BCCI was "the creation of a real life Dr. No, whose empire brokered ballistic missiles, illicit pharmaceuticals, stolen military secrets, heroin, and hot money, leaving a trail of corruption across two decades and seventy countries. And of all people, Adham had reason to know that the (Bush) White House knew it too, and had known about it for years."

pp 272-77
Why no trial for the world's biggest criminal?


Pardon for scientist who sold atom bomb secrets
By Ahmed Rashid in Lahore and Robin Gedye

Pakistan is likely to pardon without trial the father of the country's atomic bomb even though he has confessed to selling nuclear technology to rogue states, a senior government official told the Telegraph yesterday.

Another promised international indignation in the event of pardon. "He is the world's biggest criminal, involved for 27 years in selling nuclear technology. If you let him off with a slap on the wrist, then what kind of message are you sending to others?" he said.

Mr. Khan has let it be known that he is prepared to blow the whistle on the army's involvement. A cabinet minister revealed that Mr. Khan's daughter, a British citizen, had traveled to London with papers that could incriminate generals and other Pakistani leaders, including the former prime ministers Benazir Bhutto and Nawaz Sharif.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/02/04/wpak04...

Pakistani nuclear sicentist offers public apology...


...and gets a slap on the wrist..

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=586&e=2&u=/nm/20040204...

Pakistani Nuclear Scientist Takes the Rap for Leaks
57 minutes ago Add World - Reuters to My Yahoo!

By Mike Collett-White

ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Top Pakistani scientist and national hero Abdul Qadeer Khan made a dramatic personal apology Wednesday for leaking atomic secrets, the latest twist in a proliferation scandal stretching from Libya to North Korea (news - web sites).

In a somber address on state television, Khan, revered at home as the father of Pakistan's nuclear bomb, absolved the government and fellow scientists of any blame in an apparent bid by all concerned to draw a line under the damaging affair.


Commentators said his confession smacked of a cover-up, possibly part of a wider agreement to spare the powerful military unwanted scrutiny in any trial and allow President Pervez Musharraf to avoid pressure from Islamists and nationalists....

Nuclear betrayal apology

But his claim to have arranged it all himself has been met with widespread skepticism.

Western diplomats said the middlemen operated in Germany, Netherlands, Malaysia and United Arab Emirates.

As a direct result of the Pakistani revelations, it was revealed yesterday a Malaysian company controlled by the son of Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi was being investigated for possibly supplying machine parts for Libya's nuclear weapons programs.

Malaysian special branch police began the investigation after the CIA in the US and Britain's M16 informed them in November that boxes of machine parts bearing SCOPE's name were found in five containers seized in a ship off Italy in October.

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,8592971%255E...

Pakistan pardons rogue nuke scientist

Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf has pardoned a scientist who confessed to leaking nuclear weapons secrets to Iran, Libya and North Korea and says the country will not allow international supervision of its nuclear programme.

Musharraf also said Pakistan would not hand over any documents to the International Atomic Energy Agency, submit to an independent inquiry or allow the United Nations to supervise Pakistan's nuclear programme.

http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsPackageArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&story... §ion=news

ElBaradei says A.Q.Khan just tip of nuclear iceberg

"Dr.Khan was not working alone," International Atomic Energy Agency chief Mohamed ElBaradei told reporters, adding he had help from people in many countries.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/CHA530199.htm

The secret empire of Dr Khan

Pakistan’s nuclear proliferation poses a tricky challenge

JASJIT SINGH

Dr Abdul Qadeer Khan, the “father” of Pakistan’s nuclear weapons programme and the man who relentlessly pursued it through clandestine means and methods for decades, has finally admitted in a written statement that he oversaw its further clandestine spread to at least three other countries. Official Pakistan, which for years insisted that its nuclear weapons programme is tightly controlled and completely secure, is now claiming that nuclear trade has been made into a private enterprise by some of its national heroes! Extensive evidence has emerged in the public domain about detailed plans for enrichment of uranium for bomb making having been transferred from Pakistan to a number of countries along with a new version of a “yellow pages” directory of networks from Malaysia to Europe and North America for supply of materials and components.

What is of critical importance is not only the world’s most adventurous multinational nuclear proliferation but the reason Khan has put forward for his activities. Pakistani officials are saying that, contrary to earlier assumptions, he did not do so for money, but that he “was motivated enough to make other Islamic countries nuclear powers also” and reduce pressure on Pakistan. This may be an effort to garner public support from Islamic parties and countries. It also harks back to Bhutto’s notion of the “Islamic Bomb” for its Um’mah. The only exception known so far is the supply of nuclear weapon making technology to North Korea for strategic reasons in exchange for long-range ballistic missiles for nuclear weapon delivery.

Islamism has been deepening in Pakistan for three decades. Its concept of “strategic depth”, especially to its west, led to intervention in Afghanistan to control Kabul through covert Mujahideen operations. Strategic depth made no sense in modern conventional military terms. But in the context of Islamic jihad, as an instrument of politics by other means in Clausewitzean terms, it incorporated deadly logic, especially when the Holy Quran was invoked under General Zia ul-Haq to justify terrorism. To this has been added the strategic depth of an “Islamic Bomb” whose wherewithal is controlled by Pakistan. One look at the map would show that Pakistan’s Islamic nuclear mushroom covers the whole of West Asia with what Mansoor Ijaz terms as the “North Korean-made missiles armed with a Chinese-made nuclear device assembled in Islamabad’s nuclear labs whose fuel came from gas centrifuges sold by Pakistan’s rogue Islamists.” Small wonder Al-Qaeda, which received extensive support from Pakistan and its most radical surrogate, the Taliban, boasted it could make a “dirty” nuclear bomb.

The incontrovertible truth is that Pakistan’s nuclear programme in every aspect has been, and remains, under the firm and total control of its army at least since 1977; even its navy and air force have little role in it. Its clandestine nature relied on building a black market largely managed by trusted senior army (and ISI) officers and senior scientists in the nuclear establishment. Such people have undoubtedly been under a strong security and intelligence cover as much for their safety as to keep an eye on them. With a flourishing $2 billion-plus annual narcotics trade, and banks like the former Dubai-based Pakistani-owned “Outlaw Bank”, the BCCI (Bank of Credit and Commerce International), and the Mehran Bank to manage the black market in narcotics, nuclear trade and tools for terrorism, there was obviously no dearth of unaccounted funds for the purpose. General Aslam Beg, the army chief in late 1980s who controlled the nuclear programme, later publicly acknowledged receipt of hundreds of crores of unaccounted funds which he passed on to the ISI and President Ghulam Ishaq Khan.

CONTINUED...

http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=40361

Pakistan investigates BCCI role in sale of nuclear knowhow

Wednesday, February 04 2004 @ 06:11 PM CST

Stephen Fidler and Farhan Bokhari

The Pakistani government is examining records of the failed Bank of Credit and Commerce International in its investigation into the role Pakistani scientists may have played in selling nuclear knowhow to Iran, North Korea and Libya. According to bankers, some of whom worked with BCCI before it collapsed in 1991, Pakistani investigators have sought the help of former BCCI employees to try to uncover payments made to scientists connected with Pakistan's nuclear programme. BCCI's role in financing Pakistan's own nuclear efforts has long been the subject of scrutiny. In 1992, a report into BCCI from a US Congressional sub-committee headed by Senator John Kerry, now a leading Democratic presidential contender, said "there is good reason to conclude that BCCI did finance Pakistan's nuclear programme". Though it said the issue deserved further investigation, there was little public follow-through.

This year, however, as evidence has mounted that Pakistani scientists helped the uranium enrichment programmes of Iran, North Korea and Libya, the Pakistani government has launched an investigation. A government spokesman in Islamabad said that anybody found to have passed on secrets would be punished, but denied that the government approved any transfers. At least 11 Pakistani scientists and officials - as well as the so-called father of the Pakistani nuclear bomb, Abdul Qadeer Khan - have been questioned.

BCCI helped the Pakistani government under General Zia ul Haq, the military dictator killed in a 1988 plane crash, to channel payments from the US Central Intelligence Agency to fighters seeking to oust Soviet troops from Afghanistan. Soviet troops withdrew in 1989 but former BCCI officials said the relationship for organising undocumented payments for influential Pakistanis continued until the bank's collapse. One former BCCI banker who said he organised funds transfers on behalf of senior military officers in the Zia regime commented: "I'm not surprised that the Pakistanis are now looking to put together dossiers on some of their scientists receiving payments through BCCI." He said that over the past two months, Pakistani officials had travelled to the Middle East, looking for evidence of nuclear scientists receiving payments through BCCI.

Another former BCCI banker said that establishing payments to Pakistani nuclear scientists through the bank could provide evidence about the so far undocumented role of senior former Pakistani military officers in overseeing the transfer of nuclear knowhow to other countries. The investigation has prompted speculation among western intelligence officials and diplomats over the extent to which General Zia, leader of a frontline anti-communist state, in fact sanctioned the transfer of nuclear knowhow to Iran. In the past four to eight weeks, he said the Pakistani investigators have been seeking evidence of payments made to Mohammad Farooq, one of the nuclear scientists at the centre of the investigation. Pakistani officials are said to have focused on Mr Farooq as a possible contact between the Iranians and Mr Khan.

http://www.pakistan-facts.com/index.php?topic=wmd-proliferation
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. There you go again,
Edited on Tue Jun-15-04 09:54 PM by Minstrel Boy
blowing my mind.

There's nothing like the facts to make a case. Reagan's "stupid things."

Quite the sordid history, there. Like too much of history.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. We can unlock this misery
Edited on Tue Jun-15-04 10:38 PM by seemslikeadream
Whatever fear invents, I swear it make no sense
I reach through the border fence
Come down, come talk to me




I can imagine the moment
Breaking out through the silence
All the things that we both might say
And the heart it will not be denied
'Til we're both on the same damn side
All the barriers blown away
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. That's some story
Seems like a dream, a bad, bad dream.
Let's hope they never feel the need to use their bombs.
Thanks to raygoon and bush for looking the other way as Pakistan developed their nukes, eh?.
Geeez.

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. If this planet blows to pieces this year, thank Khan Labs' and Bush
That reminds me I forgot this one!


If this planet blows to pieces this year, thank Khan Labs' and Bush


You may never have heard of Khan Laboratories, but if this planet blows to pieces this year, it will be thanks to Khan Labs' creating nuclear warheads for Pakistan's military. Because investigators had been tracking the funding for this so-called "Islamic Bomb" back to Saudi Arabia, under Bush security restrictions, the inquiry was stymied. (The restrictions were lifted, the agent told me without a hint of dark humor, on September 11.)

Noam Chomsky, who read the story on page one of the Times of India, has wondered, "Why wasn't it all over US papers?

.. A top-level CIA operative who spoke with us on condition of strictest anonymity said that, after Bush took office, "There was a major policy shift" at the National Security Agency. Investigators were ordered to "back off" from any inquiries into Saudi Arabian financing of terror networks, especially if they touched on Saudi royals and their retainers. That put the Bin Ladens, a family worth a reported $12 billion and a virtual arm of the Saudi royal household, off limits for investigation.

I probed our CIA contact for specifics of investigations that were hampered by orders to back off of the Saudis. He told us that Khan Laboratories investigation had been effectively put on hold.
http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=312&row=0


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markses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
6. Should turn up in the absurd "World Tribune" loved by so many "DUers"
Be prepared for a LBN post on this very subject coming from the laughable World Tribune any day now. I'll put down odds in a PM on who will post this tripe when it appears in that source. ;-)
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buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
12. what's that REM song?
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-15-04 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. can't you see I need nothing too deep ?
Edited on Tue Jun-15-04 11:16 PM by seemslikeadream
now my suspicion's on the ride
I have known, I have known your kind.
please don't talk, don't make me think
order up another drink
let me let imagination drive.

can't you see
I need
nothing too deep.

imagination
come alive
suspicion
tonight, I'll dream tonight.

listed to the devils in my ear.
tell me what, what I want to hear
you're so funny, you're so fine.
you're so perfect, you're so mine.
that I never had an opportunity
to hide
no I never had a chance

can't you see
I need
nothing too deep.

imagination
come alive
suspicion
tonight, I'll dream tonight.

look into my eyes.
they hypnotize.
the lights, the drinks.
let the music carry you away

my eyes are blurred
my sights are limited
am I sensing a familiar twinge?

please don't speak
make me think
it's all too deep

imagination
come alive
suspicion
step down, I'll dream tonight.

step down, I'll dream
you're so naked baby
carry me away
dream, dream

R.e.m.


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