Bush Censure by Envoys May Be a First, Historians Say

[UpInArms]

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=alMjDzShgJkQ&refer=us

June 18 (Bloomberg) -- The statement by 27 former diplomats and military officers on Wednesday calling for the defeat of U.S. President George W. Bush may be unprecedented.

``Their prominence and seniority and influence when in their diplomatic or military posts, and their number, is really remarkable,'' said Richard Kohn, the Pentagon's chief Air Force historian from 1981-1991 and chairman of the University of North Carolina's peace, war and defense curriculum in Chapel Hill.

The group, which includes Democrats and Republicans, said Bush's foreign policy and the war in Iraq have damaged U.S. security. Its statement may sway voters already concerned by reports of abuse of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. soldiers and the conclusion by a bipartisan commission that Saddam Hussein had no connection to the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

The investigative commission, appointed by the president, found no evidence that Hussein's regime worked with the al-Qaeda terrorist organization to plan the attacks on the World Trade Center in New York and the Pentagon in Washington. Bush, 57, responded that Hussein and al-Qaeda had ``numerous contacts'' outside of the attacks that justified the U.S. war in Iraq.

``Bush's credibility has been damaged by Iraq,'' said Greg Valliere, chief political strategist at Schwab Soundview Capital Markets in Washington. Democratic presidential candidate and Massachusetts Senator John Kerry ``has greater potential to get traction on issues like this,'' Valliere said.

...more...

[Catherine Vincent]

1. Although I don't listen to Rush, Savage, Hannity, O'Reilly, Scarbrough and

Fox News but I'm surprised they're not making a big deal about this. Dick Gephardt was right....BUSH IS A MISERABLE FAILURE

[JoFerret]

2. Just another irrelevant

focus group.

[BeHereNow]

3. Too bad the average 'murikkkan

is too ignorant to realize the significance
of this statement. The majority don't know
enough history to comprehend what it means
that this group has issued this statement, let alone
that it is unprecedented.
Much more likely that they will see these people
as "traitor libruls."
Fucking ignorant sitcom watching morons that
they are, the 'murikkkan sheeple that is.
BHN

[AlinPA]

4. You nailed it. n/t

[flewellyn]

5. Alone, they may have little impact...

But their voices are added to a chorus of others. That chorus has become so loud that even the "murikkkan sheeple", as you so charmingly call them, have begun to sit up and take notice.

I understand the urge to rail against the apathy and disinterest of the general public; however, please, have a little faith. Americans aren't really as stupid as the right-wing controlled media tells them they are; I wonder if there might be an ulterior motive for that message?

[BeHereNow]

7. Welcome to DU

But what exactly are you asking?
Ulterior motive? Just the facts as I see and hear them.
What is it you think I am saying?

BHN

[truth2power]

40. Yes they are.

"Americans aren't really as stupid as the right-wing controlled media tells them they are;"

[progressivebydesign]

6. If the people actually knew what an "envoy" was.. that would help.

Most of them think it's a long line of semi-trucks.

[BeHereNow]

8. ROLF!

Murikkkan Dickshunary deafinishun of "envoy":
Long line of simitrux on my hiweigh...

Good one Caliphoto!
Thank for the laught, I needed one after reading
some of the threads in LBN today...
I have seriously lost all hope in the future of this
country. Babies left in porta potties?
Homeless people set on fire?
What kind of monsters have we become?
BHN

[sofa king]

13. Of course ignorant Merkins know what an "envoy" is.

It's a big-ass gas-guzzling SUV, and it's a big-ass gas-guzzling pickup truck, all at the same time, thanks to good old Merkin ingenooity.



(channeling FR) But you wouldn't catch me dead in one a' those things 'cause I'm a Ford man. (/FR)

[Morning Dew]

17. Envoy !

By the time we got into Washing-Town
We had eighty-five diplo-mats
But they's neocons up on the clover leaf
An' them bushies lookin' fat
Yeah them freepers 'as thick as bugs on a bumper
They even had Rush-on-the-air
I sez we need truth, we'll show you proof
We about to go a huntin' bear

Cause we gotta great big Envoy, rockin' through the night
Yeah we gotta great big Envoy, ain't she a beautiful sight?
Come on an' join our Envoy, ain't nothin' gonna git in our way
We're gonna roll this truckin' Envoy, cross the USA
Envoy... Envoy...

[babzilla]

45. Envoy !

Well we rolled up interstate forty-four
Like a Reagan coffin sled on rails
We subpoenaed up all a their torture-memos
An' left 'em settin' on the scales of justice
By the time we hit that George-Town
Them bears was a gittin' dumb
They'd brought up some reinforcements
From the Texas National Guard
There was unarmored humvees, and tanks, and SUV's
An' rigs of every size
but Halliburton left 'em on the side of the road 'cause they forgot to bring spare tires
Yeah them chicken coops guarded by foxes
An' ospreys dropped from the skies
Well we shot the line, an' we went for broke
With a thousand screamin' bureaucrats
And 85 short-haired doubters of supply-side Jesus
In a chartreuse microbus

Hey Bunker Buster, listen
You wanna put that microbus in behind the suicide jockey?
Yeah, he's haulin WMD
He needs all the help he can git

[Kimber Scott]

10. Lucky you're so much more intelligent than the rest of us.

Boy, "Murikkkans" would be in deep shit without smart folks like you, wouldn't they. What you fail to realize "Murikkkan," or not, people are easily manipulated. Notice I said, PEOPLE, not just Americans. But, PEOPLE can learn, if they're not treated like they're "fucking ignorant sitcom watching morons."

Is that how Gandhi led millions from oppression?

I'm an American. I can sit on my sanctimonious ass, read in the newspaper of the latest atrocity our government has inflicted on somebody somewhere, and then bitch about how the media never tells anybody anything - and how stupid everybody is, except me, of course, and the rest of the "good" Americans, or I can talk to people about what I believe, and listen to what they believe and hopefully work out some solution to our problems.

I take serious offense to being called a "Murikkkan." It's almost as bad to me as the "n" word. And, I know you don't mean me, you mean all the "fucking ignorant sitcom watching morons." To you, being as I'm a liberal Democrat, who does read the paper. I'm probably "one of the good ones." But, instead of debasing Americans, in general, and having to single out the ones who agree with you as good, how about you call your opposition by its name? Republicans? Conservatives? Neo-Cons? Right-Wing Ideologues?

And remember, a lot of those sitcom watching people are simply tired from having to work two jobs, maybe one at Wal-Mart in order to make enough to feed their kids. They don't have the time, the energy, or even the vision (doesn't necessarily mean they're "fucking ignorant.") to fight for themselves. That's what we're here for. Isn't it?

[BeHereNow]

12. You are exhibiting

What I call the "It's all about ME" syndrome.
Uniquely American. Any criticism of our
disgustingly STUPID population and culture is immediately
taken personally.
I did not address you or anyone else personally.
What makes you think I did?
Why does what I think or say affect you, personally?

BHN
On Edit- Not trying to argue- just curious as to
why thought I was addressing you.

[geek tragedy]

14. You used a slur to refer to "Americans"

By definition, that includes the majority of people here.

Your comments reflect a hatred of America and Americans, and a shame to be associated with them.# Don't be surprised when you get that kind of response. If someone talked about the "lazy and irresponsible" blacks or the "cheap and dishonest" Jews or the "impulsive and violent" Puerto Ricans or the "scheming and fanatical" Muslims, they would get similar responses.

Group-based bigotry is unacceptable, even if you are talking about Americans.

[BeHereNow]

18. You are correct-

I find the majority of 'murikkkans disgusting.
ignorant, arrogant slobs, and yes I AM ashamed
of our pathetic culture and collective apathy.
I am horrified by what my government has done
in MY name- if you are not, you are guilty of
complicity. I do not believe we can afford
NOT to seriously examine our faults, as they
are glaringly obvious to the rest of the world.
We are not an attractive lot, if you choose to
remain in denial about it, then you are choosing
self delusion over self correction.
I choose self correction- which means I have
had to make serious changes, something most
'murikkans do not have the courage to do.
They want to stay ignorant, self absorbed and preserve
their right to consume crap they don't need,
blind to the consequences of their actions
to "other" people who get in their way.
BHN

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BeHereNow]

20. So any criticism of 'murikkkans is now "hate speech?"

Frankly, the ability to examine one's self and society
realistically is actually a sign of maturity and humility...
Qualities which, whether you like it or not,
the majority of murrrikans are completey void of.
BTW- accusing me of "hate speech", for exercising
my constitutional rights, is a rather
questionable action here at DU.
You might want to edit your post.
BHN

[geek tragedy]

21. Check your own words:

<snip>
I find the majority of 'murikkkans disgusting.
ignorant, arrogant slobs, and yes I AM ashamed
of our pathetic culture and collective apathy
<snip>

<snip>
Fucking ignorant sitcom watching morons that
they are, the 'murikkkan sheeple that is.
<snip>

<snip>
What I call the "It's all about ME" syndrome.
Uniquely American. Any criticism of our
disgustingly STUPID population and culture
<snip>

I'm confident that you're posting hate speech. How confident are you that you're not?

[TankLV]

26. It's not "hate" - it's just an accurate description of reality.

Grow up yourself.

[geek tragedy]

28. The classic response of the prejudiced

Worthy of Trent Lott.

It ain't prejudice--it's the truth!

What a bunch of crap. That sort of hate speech is more simple minded than anything uttered by the Shrub. It's a mirror image of what the Freepers say about other cultures.

[paulk]

22. quite frankly

you've got the wrong avatar.

draw a deep breath
let it out

ooooooooooommmmmmmmmm.....

and ponder the question -
what would baba ram dass say?

[BeHereNow]

24. ROLF!

Thanks for the levity...
Ram Dass would say- "Who Cares?"
Precisely.
In a hundred years, it wont matter anymore.
BHN

[TankLV]

25. You said it beautifully.

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck....

They are SHEEPLE. STUPID STHEEPLE thru whose ignorance we now have this gang of criminals in charge of our government.

Just like the "good Germans" who enabled Hitler.

The truth is the truth. If it "hurts" or is "brutal" is in the eye of the beholder.

The truth simply is.

Keep on telling it like it is!

[BeHereNow]

31. Hedonistic Narcissists...

The very same as the Germans.
Completely unable to see the reality of
their situation or their responsibility in
creating it.
The unexamined life is not only not worth
living- in our case the fools living those lives are
creating disaster for the rest of the people
on the planet.
Can't say that out loud though, cause the
sheeple turn rabid towards any one who points
out the fact that they are wolves under their
bland herd like mentality and collective UNconsciousness.
By staying ignorant, they endanger every one else,
but they don't give a damn how their ignorance
destroys other people- they are far too
wrapped up in their right to consume to care
about the suffering connected to the crap they consume.
BHN

[truth2power]

43. TankLV..

Consise and to the point. Especially this: "...thru whose ignorance we now have this gang of criminals in charge of our government."

How do those who are complaining think we got into this mess in the first place? How can there be anyone with a functioning brain who still supports Bush? He should have a -36% approval rating. Given the boatload of atrocities we have witnessed these past 4 years, there should be at least ONE thing that every American could point to as being too repugnant for words. Take your pick!

Yeah, they're like "good Germans" - aiding and abetting the destruction of democracy, and when the whole thing gets flushed down the toilet, I'm gonna get sucked down with it. That really pisses me off! :mad:

You are right. "The truth is the truth".

[piece sine]

30. actually...

if anyone is sounding ignorant is YOU, and the pitiful, crude debased sputterings you are trying to pass-off as "progressive" argument. Your mangled posts in this thread are an embarrassment to everyone posting at DU. You can try to hide behind free-speech bit all you want but what you write is not progressive, is not thoughtful, and is not valued by people who seek real change.

[corriger]

35. slur slur slur americans generally are some

of the most ignorant blokes I have ever come by and I have lived in quite a few places.

[BeHereNow]

36. AMEN Brother Corriger...

The majority of them could not even find
Iraq or any other country on a map.
but ask them where their local Krispy Creme
donut trough or Walmart is and they are EXPERTS
on geography...
BHN

[Mnemosyne]

37. Bravo Kimber, bravo!

[dand]

42. Great post Kimber Scott

instead of being contemptuous of blue collar "Muricans", we should be reaching out to them.

[piece sine]

27. nice going!

"Fucking ignorant sitcom watching morons that
they are, the 'murikkkan sheeple that is."

I presume most other posters at DU would join me in denouncing your reckless rhetoric as unproductive or even counter-productive as we try to draw a majority of fellow citizens toward our point of view.

Comments like yours set us back. We don't hate Americans around here.

[geek tragedy]

29. But this is exactly

how the Freepers want to portray progressives--as people who hate America and thoroughly unpatriotic.

[BeHereNow]

33. WE?

Who are you speaking for?
I find it very interesting that I have
not attacked you or the geek tragedy
personally in any of my posts...care to
try that approach in our discussion?
If not, please put me on ignore, as your only
debating technique appears to be personal
attacks and I am not interested in your personal
opinions of me.
If you want to debate the state of our culture
with me, why don't you counter my thoughts
with examples that contradict my assessment,
which, by the way, I am entitled to, as are you, yours.
However, rather than share your assessments, you
appear to only be interested in attacking me personally,
for expressing my view, which again, I point out
I have not done once on this thread.
Here at DU, WE reserve the right to disagree, respectfully.
BHN

[geek tragedy]

34. Saying most blacks

are "fucking lazy, stupid ni44ers" would be a personal insult to all African-Americans. You're committing group libel and defamation. It's called hate speech.

[goforit]

38. Yes..........ignorant is a total understatement.

The time has come.
And they will never know what MAC truck hit them.

A sorry lot.

[w4rma]

41. The average American won't hear about this.

This might get a blurb on a few outlets during the local news. It may even get a small blurb on some of the 24/7 news stations.

And then they will have decided that they've reported on this situation enough and go back to fawning over Bush and attacking Kerry (oh, and Clinton's cock).

[TahitiNut]

44. The "average 'murikkkan" is passive, spoon-fed, ignorant ...

... and obedient to and trusting in authority, whether that authority be the descendants of Walter Cronkite, the descendants of Citizen Kane, or the President (an increasingly mythological figure). We call politicians "crooks" and then proceed to make it so at the polls. We look for "leaders" rather than representatives - and get such noxious slime as J. D. "Big Mouth" Hayworth or Tom "Bug Man" Delay - neither of whom expect their constituents to actually think about anything.

It's not "polite" to discuss politics, religion, or sex. Since these are the most personal and interesting topics requiring the most independent reasoning, that leaves only gossip and "how much did you pay and where?" conversations - i.e. "passing the time of day." The average "family value" is work 40% of the time and consume 50% of the time, leaving 10% for "growth." Sadly, much of that "growth" is now spoon-fed as well - from the preacher who found that selling used cars was too much work to the most widely-read tabloids: Star and National Enquirer.

"News" is a consumer commodity like processed junk food - designed to serve existing tastes at the lowest possible cost.

What about "passive"? Well, the "average 'murikkkan" would rather watch football than play football, watch reality rather than live reality, doing all of these with the least possible toll on their brain. More of us play with ourselves than play with others. We live in a culture where the maxim "everyone has a right to their opinion" applies to virtually every question from global warming to "what's 2+2?" Fewer than 5% of "average 'murikkkans" would get a passing grade in Logic 101. Our "education system" spends all of its time telling students what to think rather than how to think. People say "I can't stand math" with pride. Cashiers can't make change - even those who work at banks.

We even have "enlightened" employers who claim that one of the best ways to select employees is by their credit ratings rather than their skills or abilities. Sad. In the Busholini enronomy, many decent people have been ruined, and their credit ratings suffer. So, those who might need work the most have an even higher hurdle. But it's a lot easier than actually thinking and reasoning -- after all, the credit rating is an "authority," right? :puke:

[Barrett808]

9. Meese speaks

``There's always some naysayers that get rounded up by the opposition,'' said Edwin Meese, 72, who served as attorney general under Reagan. ``I don't think it'll have much effect at all in the election, in as much as their statements seem inconsistent with their past positions.''

Nice that Bloomberg fails to mention that Meese was forced to resign over Wedtech.

[UpInArms]

11. LOL!

that "non-partisan" Meese!!!

Hahahahahahahaha!

http://www.townhall.com/notables/meese.html

Edwin Meese, best known as Former President Reagan's Attorney General, has lived a multifacted life that has included politics, policy, law, education, military, and business.

Meese received his bachelor's degree from Yale in 1953, and his J.D. from University of California - Berkeley. Having served in private law practice and also as Deputy District Attorney of Alameda County, CA, Meese joined then-Governor Reagan's staff in 1967, serving eventually as his chief of staff.

In January 1975, Meese became Vice President of Rohr Industries, which specializes in aerospace and transportation technology. He served in this capacity for a year and a half before returning to law in private practice. However in 1977, Meese tried another field: education. While serving as professor of law at the University of San Diego, Meese was director of USD's Center for Criminal Justice Policy and Management. He left USD in 1981 to join President Reagan's staff.

<snip>

Today Meese holds several prestigious positions across the nation. He is the Ronald Reagan Distinguished Fellow in Public Policy at The Heritage Foundation, a member of The Prsidential Leadership Program Board of Governors at Young America's Foundation, a Trustee at Capitol Research Center, a member of the Board of Visitors at The Federalist Society, and Chairman of the Governing Board of George Mason University.

...a bit more barf...

[Buns_of_Fire]

15. "Naysayers?" What about "nattering nabobs of negativism?"

Come back, Spiro, your party needs you! (For comic relief, if nothing else.)

[geek tragedy]

16. Meese! LoL.

Who are they going to dig up next, Watt?

[74dodgedart]

23. They can't all be wrong

Add Zinni, Clarke, Clark, O'neil, White, Wilson, etc
and you've got quite a list of knowledgable, experienced career people condemning the administratio

[Jim__]

32. ``Bush's credibility has been damaged by Iraq,'' - damaged??

It seems like if he ever had any credibility it's been completely destroyed.

[goforit]

39. I salute this envoy!!!!..................

May you succeed with total perseverence.