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dArKeR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-04 11:49 PM
Original message
Bush's Saddam trophy psychoanalyzed
`PHALLIC EQUIVALENT': US troops presented George W. Bush with a gun that was taken from Saddam when he was captured. The question is why Bush is so fond of it

NY TIMES NEWS SERVICE , WASHINGTON

The story of how US President George W. Bush ended up with former Iraqi president Saddam Hussein's pistol mounted in his private study off the Oval Office has dribbled out in the last few weeks, and it is a good one.

As first reported in Time magazine, the soldiers who captured Saddam in December presented the mounted sidearm as a gift to Bush in a visit to the White House. They were members of the Army's Delta Force, Bush later said, and they had confiscated the unloaded pistol from Saddam's lap when they pulled him out of his underground bunker near Tikrit.

"It's now the property of the US government," Bush said at a news conference in Savannah, Georgia, when asked specifically about the pistol and whether he would return it to the people of Iraq. What the gun tells us about the president, the war and the relationship of the Bush family to Saddam is another story entirely. It is in many ways better, or at least more interesting, than the first.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2004/06/22/2003176081
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loveable liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-04 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. proof that its personal.
thats what trophies are. nothing to do with a potential threat.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. bingo! it is proof that it was PERSONAL!
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DenverDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-04 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
2. It doesn't take Sigmund Freud to figure that one out.
Overcompensation on a world class sociopathological scale.

Repressed homosexuality has devastating psychological ramifications. Just ask Victor Ashe.
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Scottie72 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #2
11. I am so sick of this!
This makes me sick...

so many have not learned. This is totally offensive to me. The continuation of labeling of someone that one doesn't like as gay. WHY?

It perpetuates the notion that being gay is somehow evil.
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DenverDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. No, it labels someone who vilifies gays when he is one as a hypocrite.
Edited on Tue Jun-22-04 09:30 AM by DenverDem
I'm saying that he needs to come out of the closet and he wouldn't be such a sociopath.

I'm not labeling him as gay because I don't like him, I am labeling him as gay because he has had a long running relationship with his college roomate. Google "George Bush and Victor Ashe" and come back and discuss it.

Please know what you are talking about before flying off the handle.
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Duncan Grant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Unless you're Victor Ashe and a MSW or LCSW...
you're just asserting an opinion based solely upon gossip. With that in mind, it's seems a bit illogical to tell someone:

<Please know what you are talking about before flying off the handle.>

Why this is any different than the "Hillary is a Lesbian" headline on The National Enquirer? As a gay man, it does seem to me that the most convenient smear is to accuse someone of closeted gay liaisons.

And I do know what I'm talking about. Long story short, I think Scottie72 has a point worth considering. There's enough factual info on * to discredit him; let's go after him for that. To vent about him as a closeted sociopath? I don't know. :shrug:


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Calico Jack Rackham Donating Member (410 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
3. Gee, since taking weapons as
Edited on Tue Jun-22-04 12:13 AM by Companero
personal war trophies is a criminal offense, I assume Georgie will either be charged or turn his little pistol over to the US govt.

AR 608-4 prohibits soldiers from possessing the following items as war trophies:

(1) United States property or property of any allied nation.
(2) United States property issued or otherwise provided to other governments and captured from enemy forces during hostilities.
(3) Name plates removed from any type of equipment (name plates will not be removed from captured equipment, except as authorized by the appropriate commander).
(4) Live ammunition, explosives, or any item containing explosives.
(5) Weapons defined as “firearms” by the National Firearms Act.
(6) Electronic equipment (radios, radar equipment) or component parts thereof.
(7) Flammables of any nature.
(8) Government-owned or privately owned equipment of any enemy, which is not designed to be issued to or carried by an individual (i.e., motor vehicles, aircraft, motorcycles, machine tools, surgical or dental instruments).
(9) Government-owned or privately owned articles of a household nature, objects of art or historical value, or articles of worth, such as silver or gold ware, chinaware, linens, furniture, stamp collections, coin collections, gems, jewelry, and paintings.
(10) Articles, including works of art or science, which were the property of municipalities or institutions dedicated to religion, charity, education, the arts and sciences, or other items of local value as may be determined by the combatant commander.
(11) Items which are more valuable to research, training, military intelligence, historical, or other purposes than as a trophy, i.e., special purpose clothing, scientific research papers, technical books, weapons or equipment of peculiar design or modification.
(12) Any item, article, or piece of equipment obtained in violation of international law or in violation of any treaty law in effect between the United States and any other country. See FM 27–10, The Law of Land Warfare.
(13) Any other article or materiel not included above but determined by appropriate major commanders to be potentially detrimental to the health, safety, or welfare of individuals will be prohibited for retention or shipment as war trophies.

(14) Any weapon, by whatever name called, which propels or expels a gas or gas-producing material, either by means of an explosive or compressed air.

The following categories of weapons, regardless of the degree of serviceability (serviceable or welded-up), fall within the purview of the National Firearms Act, and are not authorized to be retained as war trophy firearms:

a. Shotguns having a barrel or barrels less than 18 inches in length.
b. A weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length.
c. A rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length.
d. A weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length.
e. Any other weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire.
f. Machinegun, meaning any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any combination of parts designed and intended for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.
g. A muffler or a silencer for any firearm whether or not such firearm is included within this definition.
h. Destructive devices.

While in a combat AOR, Article 103 of the UCMJ states that military members must reasonably secure all public property taken from the enemy and turn over abandoned or captured property to the proper U.S. military representatives.
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dArKeR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Thanks for letting us know the rules!
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checks-n-balances Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Now somebody go inform the Saddam-Hater-in-Chief! eom
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 02:22 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Sadly, this doesn't apply to the President
He's a civilian; this is the keystone of civilian control of the military.

On the other hand, it's so far beyond tacky that I cringe at the thought that my country is being helmed by a man of such coarse vulgarity.

And the Humiliation of America continues ...

--bkl
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WannaJumpMyScooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. Of course, being AWOL he is not subject to the UCMJ
:evilgrin:
And, as President, he is allowed to keep trophies and such... every President has.

This one is weird though.
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Matilda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 02:26 AM
Response to Original message
8. Childish, immature, etc., etc. Sounds about right.
n/t
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 03:12 AM
Response to Original message
10. A pistol that has no bullets...hmmm
Are we sure the twins are Dubyas? :evilgrin:
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
12. uh, shouldn't that gun be labeled evidence..
for use if and when saddam has a trial?
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kskiska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
13. What's telling, though, is
that he didn't present the gun to his daddy. He kept it for himself to prove that he's better than his daddy.
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DeaconBlues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. Exactly!
Look what I got that my daddy couldn't get! Its the ultimate possession for a man who has been overshadowed by his father his whole life. Too bad the whole country has to suffer because of Georgie's oedipal issues.
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bushisanidiot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
15. Scared rabbit in a hole turns over gun to scared AWOL rabbit
who did nothing but run and hide on 9/11.

Good job, boy wonder.. what a pitiful excuse for a "president"
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colonel odis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-04 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
17. c'mon. who believes that's really saddam's pistol.
bush lies like a cheap rug to begin with. i don't think for one second that pistol came from anywhere other than karl rove.

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