Four killed as tank crushes car (Iraqis on their way to Baghdad)

[Barrett808]

(Al-Sabah) - Four Iraqis were killed when an American tank crashed them inside their car in Tarmiya on their way to Baghdad. A "Kia" car was hit by one tank and turned upside down before being crushed by a second tank, killing the passengers - including two women and a child. The people consider the event a crime, saying the Americans don't respect even peaceful Iraqis.

(Al-Sabah is issued daily by the Iraqi Media Network on behalf of the Coalition Provisional Authority.)

http://www.iwpr.net/archive/ipm/ipm_103.html

[thebigidea]

1. But we opened a new hospital!

That won't be able to do shit for these poor people.

[shraby]

2. Where in the hell do they get the

idea they can just run over a car with a tank???? Because Bush just exempted them from crimes in Iraq?

[KansDem]

15. Perhaps they saw this video...

http://www.trackpads.com/video/index.php?action=showpic&cat=163&pic=1418

[Barrett808]

19. This video is just unconscionable

Life under occupation, what a joy.

[Make7]

31. No wonder...

there's a "supply problem" regarding ammunition. Why are they shooting a car they are planning on running over with a tank?

But more importantly, why were those Iraqis stealing wood? Why don't they get a job and save up their money and buy some wood? What? There are almost no jobs in Iraq for Iraqis? Well then they'll just have to do without shelter - there is no excuse for stealing. Perhaps they shouldn't have built all those homes out in the open where they could get hit by bombs. Hopefully they've learned their lesson this time.

There's just no "helping" some people....

-Make7

[Judi Lynn]

3. Oh, whyyyyyy does the lib'rul press not acknowledge all the gooood

we're doing in Iraq?

Forget all the millions of acts of individual cruelty and intimidation and astonishing brutality, and remember that Haliburton and related companies are constructing at great profit to themselves, all kinds of brand new things at their leisure, and charging us out the wazoo for it.

[Aidoneus]

5. uh, no

They threw a new coat of paint on an old hospital they bombed last month.. semantics, semantics..

[thebigidea]

12. but... but... its got electricity now! Some of the time!

And plenty of new customers, too... you see, its all part of the CPA Job Creation Program to keep hospitals busy.

[saigon68]

26. They don't need a hospital

These people are dead they need an UNDER TAKER.

[Emboldened Chimp]

4. How the hell does a slow-ass tank crash into a car?

This has to be intentional, or at the very least the tank drivers were being incredibly irresonsible.

[Aidoneus]

6. this has happened quite a bit

well, relatively speaking. It has been a wide variety of people ranging from little kids and old women in several cities, up to Sadr City sheikhs and imans. They don't seem to care who gets crushed.

[Tim4319]

9. I am not surprised

[petronius]

8. Tanks aren't all that slow...

... I think their top speed is somewhere in the low 40s.

I don't think we can automatically assume deliberateness or even negligence without a lot more information. The tank could have been at fault, but the car could equally well have made a mistake. Consider how often people try to cut in front of a freight train (also perceived to be slow) and end up crushed...

[jayfish]

16. You Did Not Just Say That!

Do you have any idea of how many Iraqis have been killed, by soldiers, at check points for simply driving? Now your gonna tell us that these same people are gonna play beat-the-train against the instruments of their destruction? I have heard tons apologist prattle, but that is an insult to any thinking human with an IQ above double digits. Yes, and I'm sure that that means you insult yourself with such a statement.

Jay

[petronius]

18. I have read my post again...

...and I think the point was perfectly clear. To reiterate: I consider it inappropriate to automatically assume that tank drivers are deliberately murdering people by running over them, or are being deliberately negligent, based on this story. I think that there are many more likely possibilities for this accident, including any number of misjudgements or momentary distractions on the part of either the tank driver or the car driver. Perhaps there were buildings, bushes, or other vehicles obstructing the view of one or both drivers, perhaps a passenger in one of the vehicles distracted the driver, etc. I consider deliberate murder the least likely explanation. And yes, I do believe that it is reasonable that an impatient driver, not fully realizing the speed of an oncoming tank, might try to make it through a crossing to avoid getting stuck behind a convoy.

Finally, I am neither an apologist nor a prattler. And while I don't entirely understand your last sentence, it sounds as though you are trying to compliment me on my thoughtfullness and above-average intelligence...Thanks!

[0007]

25. You can't be serious! Insulting life is junior's job.

[petronius]

29. I fail to see the insult

I said that I think it is wrong to automatically assume that this was deliberate until all of the more likely explanations are ruled out. Maybe if you had spent more time reading my posts and less time crafting your insult you would have understood that...

[hansolsen]

7. Tank driver a casualty of war too

Let's give our soldiers the benefit of the doubt and assume it was all an accident. Even so, don't you think this will be a mind warp for the poor guy who was driving that tank?

If he stopped to look at what he had done and saw the child crushed to death, won't that image live in his nightmares for the rest of his life? Plenty of Vietnam era vets came home with such nightmares and ended their own lives with booze and drugs, many ending up as street people living as the dregs of society. Crushing a child with a tank will do that to a person.

When we list the number of U.S. service people killed and injured, we should add to the tally for this poor soul. This soldier's life has been altered forever.

[DemonFighterLives]

10. I agree with that

But would add that this heartless administration could be pumping up people with the kill em all propaganda. Flatten the whole place and turn it to glass jargon. Of course it could be an accident, but wouldn't have happened if we would have stayed out of there.

[markses]

11. I agree

Then again, the tanker may have been saying "Get some, get some, har har har." Ya never know.

[hansolsen]

20. The heroes and the villians

Yup, and we may never know.

Whenever I hear some Republican chicken hawk demanding that we all "support the troops", (usually meaning - shut up), I think of my old WWII combat veteran father who always said "war is hell and there are no saints in hell".

It's fine to "support our troops" but not everything our troops do in our name -- that's one of the many troubles with war.

[atreides1]

13. Good Point

But on the other hand the driver could be stenciling a car on the tank, and will be telling his buddies exactly how it happened right down to the last detail.

A lot of the military personnel really beleive that they are defending the US, some even relish the idea of humiliating Muslims, as can be confirmed by Abu Ghraib, and there are those here back at home that think it's all great.

Will the crew members of the tank live with this image for the rest of their lives, probably, but maybe that's the price a soldier pays.
As for the Vietnam vets who were affected by what they saw and went through, my first shirt at the NCO Academy at Ft. Bliss Texas, had photos of himself standing next to 2 dead VC, who were strapped to
crosses, and they didn't die with a smile on their faces. He was rather proud of those photos.

So you see, you could be right and this incident might totally destroy the mind of these soldiers, or as I've already stated, they could be back at camp tonight going over how it happened, they might even tell of the looks on the faces on that family as they were crushed to death and laugh about it, but at least one of those soldiers will not laugh, but we'll never hear what he has to say, only what the braggart has to say.

[hansolsen]

21. Soldiers want their "trigger time"

Sure plenty of soldiers celebrate war, long for combat, can't wait to get some "trigger time" to make all that training pay off. And a good thing too -- armies without those kinds of soldiers don't win wars. That happens to be one of the hard cold facts of life.

But not all soldiers are that way. Some serve because it is a duty. Others fight out of loyalty to their fellow soldiers and their units, without hating the enemy.

But there are damn few soldiers who don't end up hating the enemy once they see their own dead and wounded comrades piling up around them. That's just the way it is.

[Merlin]

14. I do not accept that as an ameliorating factor.

I'm a combat veteran, and this monstrous but sadly typical act of arrogance and callousness is reprehensible.

The people to blame here, as in Vietnam, are not just the GI perpetrators, but the damnable US Army brass which even still does not understand the necessity of teaching moderation and discretion to soldiers.

When will they learn that without adding combat self-discipline to the training manual these kinds of atrocities will be repeated ad nauseum to our own destruction?

[hansolsen]

22. Brass without balls

I blame the current military brass, including Meyers and Franks, for failing to tell Shrub to stick his personal war up his personal ass when they knew damn well he was sending soldiers into a war of choice based on a pack of lies.

They knew Hussein was no threat to America. If the brass thought Hussein had WMD in militarily useful quantity, they never would have piled the entire expeditionary force into one encalve in Kuwait in easy missle range, and would never have launched an attack with the smallest possible force driving all the way to Baghdad with undefended supply lines.

They knew Saddam was no threat to us militarily, that's for sure.

There should have been some militray brass resigning in protest before the war on iraq was launched. The fact that there were none is proof that shit floats.

[Nihil]

24. Well said!

> They knew Saddam was no threat to us militarily, that's for sure.
>
> There should have been some military brass resigning in protest before
> the war on iraq was launched. The fact that there were none is proof
> that shit floats.

Very accurate summary.

[saigon68]

27. no those Turds sink to the bottom of the bowl

The Toilet Bowl

[Barrett808]

28. Apparently, we had the same problem in Vietnam

"Yes man" generals.

[jukes]

17. i agree completely, hansolsen

this is an alien environment for both cultures; the soldiers didn't ask to go, the iraqui's never invited us over. bush's incredibly greedy & ruthless administration forced this horror on the iraqui people, the gi's scared out of their minds, & us.

BTW, some of us v/v/vets ended up as net-trash, still living as the dregs of society! :evilgrin:

[hansolsen]

23. It's never too late to come in out of the cold

Maybe that is one of the few good things that will come out of this war. It will give old Vietnam vets something to do -- they can help pick up the pieces and put humpty dumpty together again.

Returning vets from Bush War II will need more than a band and a parade when they come home. They could do worse than look up an old Vietnam Vet and talk it over.

[Geo55]

30. musta been terrasts