Divided They Stand/tbo.com (Catholics denying communion/Kerry/more)

[tlcandie]

http://news.tbo.com/news/MGB7CLPV2WD.html

<snip>
``The pro-life people say it as: `If you're not pro-life, you are not for life. You're against life,' '' Dempsey said in a recent interview. ``And I don't believe that's true of any of the pro-choice people.''

If Kerry isn't ``Catholic enough'' for some leaders of her faith, she reasoned, maybe she isn't, either.

``I decided, well, I guess this does apply to me, so I can't in good conscience receive Communion,'' said Dempsey, 75, who had been receiving her church's ``bread of life'' even though she is thrice-divorced, which also creates a conflict.
<snip>

[THUNDER HANDS]

1. good for her

If more moderate and liberal Catholics stand up to the church it WILL back down.

The church cares about money and donations more than it cares about unborn babies or the health and wellbeing of its flock.

Look at the sexual abuse history.

If enough people let the collection plate pass by, even the Pope will get the hint eventually.

[Voltaire99]

21. I agree. Skip the collection plate, people

Nothing will curb this arrogance quite like refusing to subsidize it.

If you're a pro-choice, anti-Bush Catholic, you have my sympathies. But you don't need to pay for right wing bullshit.

[lovedems]

2. There seem to be alot of Catholics out there who are forgetting

how vehemently the church opposes the death penalty. Why isn't THAT being made an issue as well? I am a pro-choice Catholic who opposes the death penalty so it pisses me off that life seems to be one sided in this argument.

[tlcandie]

3. lovedems, this article brings up a LOT of good questions regarding

the Catholic Church's stance. I'm glad I'm not into religion! I think the winnowing is happening and many are having to look into their hearts to find that they are no longer feel a part of the man-made religions and institutions.

More division/polarization. Some will stand by these institutions of religion come hell or high water while others will stand by their conscious and I'm not looking forward to seeing the full outcome of this if it continues. I do not see it stopping. I think that time/nature/ laws of the cosmos has brought us to this point in time. Each of us will have to stand at this crossroad, alone and come out unfettered or bound to the sinking ship of man-made hubris.

[lovedems]

6. My mom and her brothers and sisters all grew up with a catholic education

and my grandmother went to St. Mary's in Indiana (the female side of Notre Dame) and my great granparents were highly religious Catholics. Anyway, my family for generations have been strong liberal catholics. 4 of the 5 of my mom and her siblings have disavowed all *organized religion* including the Catholic church. I have not yet taken that step as my 4 boys attend Catholic school and I am not ready to yank that away from them at this point. That is not to say that it won't happen. I have always been very comfortable in being a liberal Catholic and if the leaders of the church no longer offer that comfort level between church teachings and social issues I hold dear, then I will have a decision to make that not only affects me, but will affect my children as well. I don't appreciate *at all* the political stand they are trying to make. As a liberal catholic I don't think religion has any part in political discourse or policy making. I would certainly be pissed off if my senator was a southern baptist and was shaping policy on his religious belief. I have always said and stand by conviction that where John Kerry is concerned, he represents his constituents first, all of whom have very diverse relligious backgrounds and opinions.

[tlcandie]

7. My heart is with you because I once stood at this crossroad, too!

:hug:

[lovedems]

10. Thank you!

:hug:

[leftchick]

12. I feel as you do lovedems...

I also have two sons in Catholic school and have been a life long Liberal Catholic. The past three years have been unbearable for me at our Parish because our pastor fancies himself a "Father bush*bot". It infuriated me to the point where I found another church for the past year where politcs was never brought to the sermons by any of the priests. That is until last Sunday. I suspect some message was sent by the Bishop of our Diocese to spread the word to pass judgement on politicians who don't "protect life". It was sickening and all I could do to sit through it. The church is making a HUGE mistake with this issue. Next it will be all those who use birth control, assisted reproductive technologies, divorce, premarital sex, etc. As if they don't have enough problems right now anyway.. :eyes: You and I are in agreement on the death penalty too. They never bring that up anymore. They are really going to lose me and soon I am afraid. :(

peace,
LC

[lovedems]

13. What is so ironic about this

is the run up to the war and for quite awhile during the invasion, our Msgr. used his homily to speak out against the war! Masses were absolutely terrific for this passivist. I was so proud that my church was taking a stand on an issue that I felt was so unjust and unneccessary. His homilies against the war were beautiful, reasonable and eloquent. I miss those days.

[leftchick]

15. You are so lucky to have heard that....

and have those memories. My father bushbot's were all about "supporting our pResident in his pursuit of our freedom and world peace!" !!! Can you believe that? War = Peace! Right outa the chimps* mouth. It was SICKENING... That is when I left for a new church and only go when my boys have something special in a school mass.

[beyurslf]

4. I always bring this up.

The Catholic church sent out its flyers for candidates for state office to fill out and they included this in the pro-life section. They asked about abortion and death penalty and stem cell research specifically and then asked if you supported life in all of its forms. I may disagree with them but I appreciated that they included this issue.

[lovedems]

9. Our Msgr. has decided that he would deny Dick Durbin the sacraments.

DICK DURBIN! He probably votes more in line with the Catholic Church then any other politician!

I get the Catholic Times and a month or two ago there was an article that stated 80% of Catholics did not like the leaders involving themselves with political issues. The Bishops should take heed of that poll. They are still reeling from the sex abuse scandal.

[struggle4progress]

5. Affirming Life

http://forward.com/main/article.php?ref=200406241117

[lovedems]

8. That article is so true.

Which is along the lines of what I posted yesterday. For all of the failings of the Catholic church they have generally had very noble social causes. They care about the poor and vulnerable, they care about human rights issues, they want affordable health insurance for everyone, they oppose wars (I think they are passivists big time) and they oppose the death penalty. They are doing themselves a huge disservice and minimalizing the other issues they care about by focusing on this one issue.

[GinaMaria]

11. Once upon a time

the church cared about these things. It seems that now they are a one issue church. The issue of anti abortion is all they talk about. Shame.

My liberal and social conscious come from my catholic upbringing. I am a recovering ex-catholic. The thirst for social justice was something I took with me when I left the church. They influenced many aspects of my current beliefs.

Unfortunately, that is all in the past. They are a different organization than most people thought. Protecting pedophiles is the farthest thing from social justice. Abandoning the poor and promoting right wing candidates on one issue alone is not the church most of us once knew.

[xchrom]

14. sad -- but if liberal catholics don't

make a very vocal and noticeable stand -- then this will get worse.

[K8-EEE]

16. I Have Left The Church Over All This BS

I can't support this chruch anymore...but maybe what I should do is stick around an change things. You've given me food for thought.

[Cerridwen]

17. 1960 - JFK barely wins popular vote

Many people (mainstream voters) then, as now, are afraid of electing a representative who may be answerable to a church/faith to which they do not belong nor subscribe. Because the catholic church is run by the pope; many people (mainstream voters) see a vote for a catholic representative as a vote for the pope and papacy.

The catholic church's stance on this will add to that particular mind set and fear and may/will torpedo more than one catholic candidate for office.

[Tippy]

18. Quietly, Vatican OK's Catholics Voting

"Vatican officials clearly told the Bishops that voters are free to support pro-abortion politicians without sinning, if they support them for other policies... The Vatican's official position is that abortion IS NOT an issue that trumps every other issue politically. By the logic of this statement, the Vatican is saying that if a politician is pro-choice, but supports many other priorities of the Church, it is quite reasonable for Catholic voters to support them over a politician who is pro-life, but fails to support Catholic doctrine on many other issues. Which leaves John Kerry in a great position, since by at least one measure, he is the best Catholic in the Senate on supporting the priorities of the Bishops on non-abortion issues. So repeat this as a mantra until the media gets it. The Vatican says a) abortion is NOT the only important issue politically, and b) voters are free to support pro-abortion politicians as long as they are proportionately good on other Church priorities."

< http://www.nathannewman.org/log/index.shtml#001780 >

[Maeve]

19. Good to know there is still some sense in high places

"The Vatican says a) abortion is NOT the only important issue politically, and b) voters are free to support pro-abortion politicians as long as they are proportionately good on other Church priorities."

Nice to know they agree with me! :D

[Tippy]

20. Many with-in the Church do agree with you

I was born a Catholic and will die one...this issue of with-holding Communion really bothered me, but I would not have left the Church...I was denied Communion after a divorce but never missed Mass I knew one day that I would be able to once again recieve Communion and I was right...this issue too would pass once cool heads began using what God gave them...