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Dancing_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 02:04 AM
Original message
At last 9/11 Truth Gets a Day in Court
Edited on Sun Aug-17-03 02:15 PM by EarlG
And the Washington Post sounds a bit scared. The whole U.S. Corporate Media should be scared, if you ask me...they will never regain all the credibility they lose over completely mis-representing what really happened on 9/11/2001 and WHY. When the truth sinks in, no matter how many newspapers and TV stations tell the same lies on some future occasion, people will always wonder, well, what if it's just another scam like 9/11? A more critical attitude towards "mainstream" and "official" monopolized sources is likely to develop, and people will seek more real information on the internet. Canidates who wish to succeed as Progressives will have to center themselves in this new domain...how do you think that Howard Dean has gotten as far as he has?


U.S. Faces Challenges at German 9/11 Trial
Defense May Call Secretly Held Witnesses and Invoke Conspiracy Theories
By Peter Finn
Washington Post Foreign Service



HAMBURG-- Germany opened its second trial of an alleged member of the Hamburg terror cell that investigators say led the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, a proceeding that promises to be more politicized and protracted than the country's first, successful prosecution of an al Qaeda functionary.



Abdelghani Mzoudi, a 30-year-old Moroccan student, is charged with 3,066 counts of accessory to murder and membership in a terrorist organization for allegedly providing critical logistical support to cell members who carried out the suicide hijackings.

Defense attorneys signaled today that they have planned an aggressive defense that will demand that the United States turn over key witnesses who are in secret custody, and will force prosecutors to prove through physical or other explicit evidence what the state calls basic accepted facts, such as the presence of cell member Mohamed Atta on the first plane that hit the World Trade Center.

*** EDITED BY ADMIN FOR COPYRIGHT REASONS. DO NOT POST FULL-LENGTH COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL ***
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Ohio Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 02:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. Dave, this is very good find.
But do yourself (and DU) a favor and edit your post so that only three or four paragraphs of the article appear. Copyright laws and all of that, you know.
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Dancing_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Hey man, thanks!
I guess I was thinking because this was latest breaking news I had to give you the whole text as it was published, not my Readers Digest Condensed Version. I'm pretty new here, and this is my first contribution to this particular forum.
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5thGenDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Good catch
Now edit carefully and welcome to DU.
John
LIHOPers, take heart.
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QuietStorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 03:22 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. Much more

than just LIHOP.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 02:29 AM
Response to Original message
4. Wonder if Bushco can stage manage this trial.
Should be quite interesting to see the facts out on Atta.
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Dancing_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #4
31. I Don't Know if Bushco can Stage Manage any more...
The massive Bush propaganda crew may not be able to manage this anymore...especially not in Germany, where their credibility has been weak for at least a year now. Still, there do seem to be some powerful German corporate interests who don't want the whole truth about 9/11 to get out. For example, Der Spiegle still publishes some illogical ad hominem rants against "conspiracy theorists", blah, blah, blah.
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arcos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 02:51 AM
Response to Original message
5. Do you have the link?
I would like to read it completely...

Thanks, and welcome to DU! :hi:
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chillwindblowing Donating Member (85 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. read it completely
Thanks from an formally uniformed voter......:toast:
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Dancing_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. Your Welcome...Good Luck Surviving the Neo-Cons
With incompetent conspirators like Bush, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and Ashcroft at the top of the chain of command (I'm including both military and police here) it must be hard for anyone in uniform these days.
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Dancing_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. I found this through Global Free Press from New York City
This is where I found a few sources of information in this breaking story: http://new.globalfreepress.com/article.pl?sid=03/08/15/218215

Now I'm hoping to catch some leaks from disgruntelled anti-Rumsfeld people in the Pentagon...Rumsfeld knew the plan for 9/11, and he let some of his own co-workers in the Pentagon die! How low can a person sink?
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antineocon1 Donating Member (130 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 03:14 AM
Response to Original message
6. Great find and welcome to du...
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QuietStorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 03:19 AM
Response to Original message
7. My god the can of worms that can be revealed
Edited on Sun Aug-17-03 03:21 AM by QuietStorm

If the German prosecutors stick to it. Might be the only way to break this wide open. I wonder what the consequences might be?

How do you like that 1 in 5 Germans believe that the U.S.government had a role in the attacks. I wonder what other speculations they might have? This attack was an extraordinary and quite intricate bit of networking, even Kissinger said in an interview with CNN.
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Dancing_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #7
20. Allied Intelligence Agencies Didn't Believe Official 9/11 Story
An odd irony in all this is that other coutries intelligence agencies who tried to warn Bush about a danger of hijackers trying to fly planes into symbolic targets, nevertheless didn't believe the official story! French, German, Russian, they all tried to warn us...and then when something like they were talking about seemed to happen THEY STILL DIDN'T BELIEVE THE NEO-CON STORY. The French national intelligence agency seems to have been the first to figure out that the official story of Flight 77 and Pentagon had to be bogus. They all also realized that there was no way the U.S. Air Defences would just happen to fail so miserably. There had to be SABOTAGE FROM THE TOP.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. remember Le Figaro's report
Edited on Sun Aug-17-03 02:50 PM by Minstrel Boy
that alleged, two months before 9/11, bin Laden had met with the CIA station chief in a Dubai hospital?

The most interesting part of the story is this, as reported in The Guardian, Nov 1, 2001:

"The disclosures are known to come from French intelligence which is keen to reveal the ambiguous role of the CIA, and to restrain Washington from extending the war to Iraq and elsewhere."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/waronterror/story/0,1361,584444,00.html




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Dancing_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. Good One!
:toast: What an enlightening find that is!
My favorite French language source is http://reseauvoltaire.net
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Dancing_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
28. German Engineers reject official 9/11 story Thread
General interest readers may be interested in a more specialized discussion at DU about German ENGINEERS who don't believe the Official Neo-Con 9/11 Myth: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=431&mesg_id=431
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psychopomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
42. I think you mean the defense attorneys
It sounds like they have enough courage to take this all the way:

"The defense said further that it might attempt to explore theories that the hijackings served the foreign policy goals of U.S. conservatives by creating a pretext to transform the U.S. military posture in the world. "It appears the U.S.A. was aware of the political advantages of the attack on the World Trade Center, as an idea, in advance," defense attorney Michael Rosenthal said."

They seem to have made a commitment to extract as much information as possible from the U.S. government and to advance alternate theories on how the events of 9/11 came to happen.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
49. Hell, I seriously think
that 1 in 5 AMERICANS buy some version of the consipiracy theory. Maybe 2 in 5--but nobody will say so on a telephone poll for fear of sounding nuts.
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Athame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
9. Well, finally!!
Defense attorneys signaled today that they have planned an aggressive defense that will demand that the United States turn over key witnesses who are in secret custody, and will force prosecutors to prove through physical or other explicit evidence what the state calls basic accepted facts, such as the presence of cell member Mohamed Atta on the first plane that hit the World Trade Center.


To me, the most infuriating thing about the various "investigations" is that they assume the facts of Al Qaeda involvement and never use the word "alleged" when referring to the hijackers. There is precious little evidence about the so-called hijackers. There is a lot more evidence that the whole official story is bogus. Yet, to be convicted as the first one was, prosecutors only need prove some tenuous association with the alleged hijackers or Al Qaeda.

BTW, how many "masterminds" of 9-11 have been caught?

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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. "Alleged hijackers"
Can anyone jog my memory?

What "evidence" is there, besides the phone calls made from the planes, that proves there were hijackers on the four planes?
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Dancing_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. Gerard Holmgren is also sceptical
Eminent 9/11 researcher Gerard Holmgren is also sceptical on this point. Have you seen some of his evidence at http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jpdesm/pentagon/investigation77.htm ?
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #22
36. I have read some of this before
and I'm reading more of it now. But a scan of the several articles regarding the alledged terrosits, does not confront my question.

In the mainstream media, has there been stated any other reason, besides unverified phone calls from the planes, that proves there were terrorists on the planes?

Did I miss it?
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #22
51. Wow Dave, now that is a keeper, Thanks for the links
That home page from that link is something also
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jpdesm/pentagon/english.html
Thanks again Dave, from another Dave

Dave,Please try to excuse me for them other posts, I really must have underestimated you. This is another one I found today, I sure somebody posted it before, but kind of got me thinking again.

http://www.mediamonitors.net/mosaddeq36.html
Did Bush Know?
:: Warning Signs of 9-11 and Intelligence Failures ::

Al-Qaeda’s Plans: Project Bojinka

Western intelligence had been aware of plans for such terrorist attacks on U.S. soil as early as 1995. Both the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) had detailed information about the possible use of hijack/suicide attacks by terrorists connected to Osama bin Laden. The New York Times reported that:

“In 1994, two jetliners were hijacked by people who wanted to crash them into buildings, one of them by an Islamic militant group. And the 2000 edition of the FAA’s annual report on Criminal Acts Against Aviation, published this year, said that although Osama bin Laden ‘is not known to have attacked civil aviation, he has both the motivation and the wherewithal to do so,’ adding, ‘Bin Laden’s anti-Western and anti-American attitudes make him and his followers a significant threat to civil aviation, particularly to U.S. civil aviation.’”<4>
Moreover, the U.S. intelligence community was aware of bin Laden’s specific intentions to use hijacked civilian planes as weapons. In this regard, the Chicago Sun-Times reported that:

“The FBI had advance indications of plans to hijack U.S. airliners and use them as weapons, but neither acted on them nor distributed the intelligence to local police agencies. From the moment of the September 11th attacks, high-ranking federal officials insisted that the terrorists’ method of operation surprised them. Many stick to that story. Actually, elements of the hijacking plan were known to the FBI as early as 1995 and, if coupled with current information, might have uncovered the plot.”<5>
Details of these advanced indications have been noted in a report by the respected German daily, Die Welt: “Western secret services knew as far back as 1995 that suspected terror mastermind Osama bin Laden planned to attack civilian sites using commercial passenger planes.” Quoting sources “close to western intelligence agencies,” the newspaper reported that: “The plan was discovered in January 1995 by Philippine police who were investigating a possible attack against Pope John Paul II on a visit to Manila…

“They found details of the plan in a computer seized in an apartment used by three men who were part of Bin Laden’s al‑Qaeda network. It provided for 11 planes to be exploded simultaneously by bombs placed on board, but also in an alternative form for several planes flying to the United States to be hijacked and flown into civilian targets. Among targets mentioned was the World Trade Center in New York, which was destroyed in the September 11 terror attacks in the United States that killed thousands.”
(snip)
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
10. Please, wake up America!
"It appears the U.S.A. was aware of the political advantages of the attack on the World Trade Center, as an idea, in advance," defense attorney Michael Rosenthal said.


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KeepItReal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. Hawks in this administration got their wish...
"In open letters to Clinton and GOP congressional leaders the next year, the group (Project for New American Century) called for "the removal of Saddam Hussein's regime from power" and a shift toward a more assertive U.S. policy in the Middle East, including the use of force if necessary to unseat Saddam.

And in a report just before the 2000 election that would bring Bush to power, the group predicted that the shift would come about slowly, unless there were "some catastrophic and catalyzing event, like a new Pearl Harbor."

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/nightline/DailyNews/pnac_030310.html

But maybe it is just one big coincidence that our intelligence assets and people like Condi Rice were looking the other way, or looking right at Al Qaeda but chose to do nothing that year while other governments (and Clinton NSC chief Sandy Berger in our own govt.) were warning Bush & Co....





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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #14
27. Lots of stuff has came out pre-knowlege, one from other day here
http://new.globalfreepress.com/article.pl?sid=03/08/13/139203&mode=thread

CIA tipped off on 9/11 pilot

News 24 -13/08/2003

Hamburg - The US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) had one of the September 11, 2001 terror pilots under surveillance as early as March 1999 after a tip from German security services, according to joint investigative reports in Germany.

The weekly magazine Stern and the first German public television channel ARD, in reports to be published and aired on Thursday, focus on Marwan Alshehhi, who piloted the Boeing plane which crashed into the south tower of the World Trade Centre.

How Alshehhi then managed to slip from the view of the CIA is the focus of the reports by ARD and Stern, details of which were provided to Deutsche Presse-Agentur in advance on Wednesday.
(snip)
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. Wow. They're going to bring up the PNAC statement about
needing '...an event like Pearl Harbor...'.
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Dancing_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz must go!
The key people involved implementing the whole PNAC bogus Pearl Harbor agenda seem to be the Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz clique in the Pentagon. A lot of their co-workers at the Pentagon do not trust them. To borrow a phrase from the prophetic first episode of The Lone Gunmen TV series, a lot of our trouble these days seems to come from a "small faction" of extremely corrupt people at the top of our executive branch.
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Dancing_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. Good PNAC links
There's a good section on the PNAC neo-con job at Global Free Press:
http://news.globalfreepress.com/index.pl?section=pnac

If you can read French, there's a lot of really enlightening stuff related to this at http://reseauvoltaire.net
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Dancing_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #10
32. Maybe the first time this truth turned up in court.
Some shrewd people saw that truth with in days of 9/11. For example Michael Ruppert: http://copvcia.com . But I haven't heard of that kind of argument being allowed to come up in COURT before!
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QuietStorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
12. I woke up thinking hell

they can just have the once OSP the now again called the Office of National Gulf Affairs just whip up whatever evidence required to prove the US allegations.
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Dancing_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #12
33. Activism requires HOPE!
:bounce: I hope any propaganda trick from Rumsfeld and company flops in Germany this time. Some of their devious propaganda tricks have certainly flopped there before!
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Kellanved Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
13. A linkt that might be of interest
It is about the civil lawsuit going along with the criminal one.

http://www.911hamburgtrial.de/
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maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
15. kick
:kick:

The europeans come through again
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Dancing_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #15
37. Europeans learned about Fascism and War from WWII
...but the American Corporate Media has assumed that we haven't learned ANYTHING from history, so we can fall for anything they just lie about together. Time will tell. If we get enough of a movement going, our media will have to re-orient itself like it did in the 1970's -- they'll see what people are really interested in, and go for the audience as usual.
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sham Donating Member (377 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
19. the neocons DO NOT want this stuff getting out
from the WP article:
"A U.S. federal judge overseeing the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui in Alexandria said that Moussaoui should be allowed to call Binalshibh as a witness, rejecting U.S. government arguments that his appearance could endanger national security. If the Justice Department loses its appeal of the decision, many legal experts expect the government to move the case to a military tribunal."

I'm no expert on military tribunals, but if they do move the case to a military tribunal, doesn't that allow for more secrecy while severely limiting Moussaoui's rights? Can they do that? Can they just switch the case over like that because the judge doesn't want to play their fascist game? It sounds to me like the Bush Cabal is terrified out of its wits if it's going to try and pull sneaky shit like this.
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Dancing_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #19
34. Under the Patriot Act they CAN cover-up and avoid a fair trial
...but my understanding is that under our Constitution, they can't. This may cause a constitutional crisis.
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
26. Wouldn't it be ironic if
Germany saved us from fascism?
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Dancing_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. Groovy, too!
:hippie: Man, you just gotta learn from History or you're Doomed to repeat it!
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Mel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #26
35. sure would be ironic
Germans are our friends and I sure would appreciate the help.

If anybody has a built in radar when it comes to smelling and knowing what fascism is one would sure think it would be the German people.

I for one can handle the truth I just don't think we are getting or are going to get it from the corporatist media or the Bush* government.
I'm leaning more towards MIHOP than LIHOP.
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Dancing_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. This link shows some positive cultural movements
Edited on Sun Aug-17-03 03:52 PM by Dancing_Dave
which may make the U.S. media re-orient itself like it did in the '60's and '70's How Does It Feel To Be One Of The Beautiful People
:loveya:
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
38. Wonder what facts about Atta will be entered into the court records?
Atta's ties to the CIA? His ties to Kissinger's business interests?
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Dancing_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
40. If you know how to vote for this thread
Please do it and rank this thread high. It's high time this important issue came to the forefront at the Democratic Underground! :)
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. Please Dave, go to search on them buttons up there and punch........
Edited on Sun Aug-17-03 05:22 PM by nolabels
a few key words or numbers like 9/11, LIHOP, MIHOP OR BFEE I am sure there is enough links, posts and snips of articles to keep most any individual busy for at least a hundred years. Not to be funny or condescending just trying to help you out on why everybody is not going WOW about this totally.

This goes along the thought that banks always make mistakes, but almost never are they in your favor, proof beyond a shadow of a doubt is what it takes to convince some people, and even then some still think that you are playing a trick on them. Look on the bright side; at least you might be more informed than 99.99% of others

On edit: had to get rid of the word write (which should have been right which also doesn't make sense to me logically on describing something)
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Dancing_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #43
53. I have visited the awesome archives, but research is making progress!
Edited on Sun Aug-17-03 11:24 PM by Dancing_Dave
Though I'm new here, I am aware that there was some great 9/11 and neo-con related threads from months back. That's a bit part of the reason I wanted to get involved here.

However, it doesn't seem like there's been so much of this great research posted here just lately, and lately 9/11 research has been making great steps forward. I brought some of it up in posts I originally put in the General Discussion section. There has been a lot of recent advances in studying what really physically happened to the WTC. Not only has the case against the official version been made much stronger, but scientists are moving forward in analyzing how the WTC really was destroyed by many carefully placed explosives. The "cutting charges" used to initiate a controlled demolition were just recently identified by Plague Puppy and his son-in-law. A team of German Engineers is looking at all the the explosions and collapses in the whole WTC complex on 9/11 and 9/12, showing how these were not in any way causally related to the impact of the planes and burning jet-fuel, but show a far ranging inside job to spectacularly destroy the complex.

And now for the first time, we see the key issue of DID THOSE ALLEGED HIJACKERS REALLY HIJACK THOSE PLANES OR EVEN GET ON THEM brought up in a REAL OPEN COURT TRIAL! We'll all see soon enough how pathetically weak the official case against these men is. In a fair constitutional trial the burden of proof is on the prosecution, and the FBI has nothing against these men that could stand up to that fair standard. No wonder the Bush Administration has had to get rid of fair constitutional trials in favor of closed "Military Tribunals"!
This whole plot is adding up better all the time!
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-03 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #53
56. The whole thing about 9/11 is key, it is the Trojan horse and Achilles....
Edited on Mon Aug-18-03 12:49 AM by nolabels
Heel rolled into one as far as can see. Too many things don't ad up about what the US government did before, during and the aftermath. Besides that so much foreign policy is now predicated on that one incident.

Placement of the explosives for the implosion would be tricky but that fake tape of Bin laden afterwards would be a good guidepost on nervousness on it. That tape they found where Bin Laden conveniently talks about how they never would have dreamed it would have went so well, with the buildings falling down and such

on edit: to ad this

People haven’t been totally asleep over here. Here maybe you would want look at these four threads maybe you will see something there

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=48074

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=57653

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=157573

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=133055
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #40
46. No voting -- at least not any more
A thread gets kicked to the top when someone replies -- like me.

Welcome to DU, btw.

:toast:

Eloriel
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jamesinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
41. I like this particular line from the Bush Administration
This is almost a cliche at this point:

A U.S. federal judge overseeing the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui in Alexandria said that Moussaoui should be allowed to call Binalshibh as a witness, rejecting U.S. government arguments that his appearance could endanger national security. If the Justice Department loses its appeal of the decision, many legal experts expect the government to move the case to a military tribunal.

Enadanger National Security. Bush being in the White House is a danger to ational security.
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QuietStorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. that is a fact

they have completely left vulnerable national security (that is aside from 9/11) but who all they are in bed with alone and all the off the books clearnances and comings and goings of foreign intelligence community people. All of that jeopardizes it regularly. This cabal ans some of the key policy figures commit treason as regularly.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-03 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #41
58. National Security is just a codeword for Bush/Cheney personal security.
It is soooo obvious that the national interests of the US is taking second place to the interests of the PNACle club.
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mike6640 Donating Member (621 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-03 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #58
59. National Security
National Security issue = High Crimes and Misdemeanors
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
45. Now the commentary on top of the post does make sense.
Here is another article about whole nations are starting to rise up against Cronie puppets tied to the beltway. What used to take a month, now takes a week, what took a day now takes an hour. I read about something similar a week or two ago. Sounds to me like they are getting the torches out, anybody remember who Marcos and Suharto were and how he stole the vote, etc.


http://www.antiwar.com/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1019169,00.html
Stark message of the mutiny

Is the Philippine government bombing its own people for dollars?

Naomi Klein
Friday August 15, 2003
The Guardian

(snip)
The soldiers claim that:

· Senior military officials, in collusion with the Arroyo regime, carried out last March's bombing of the airport in the southern city of Davao, as well as several other attacks. Thirty-eight people were killed in the bombings. The leader of the mutiny, Lieutenant Antonio Trillanes, claims to have "hundreds" of witnesses who can testify to the plot.

· The army has fuelled terrorism in Mindanao by selling weapons and ammunition to the very rebel forces the young soldiers were sent to fight.

· Members of the military and police helped prisoners convicted of terrorist crimes escape from jail. The "final validation", according to Trillanes, was Fathur Rohman al-Ghozi's July 14 escape from a heavily guarded Manila prison. Al-Ghozi is a notorious bomb-maker with Jemaah Islamiah, which was linked to both the Bali and Marriott attacks.

· The government was on the verge of staging a new string of bombings to justify declaring martial law.

Arroyo denies the allegations and accuses the soldiers of being pawns of her unscrupulous political opponents. The mutineers insist they were not trying to seize power but only wanted to expose a top-level conspiracy. When Arroyo promised to launch a full investigation into the allegations, the mutiny ended without violence.

Though the soldiers' tactics were widely condemned in the Philippines, there was widespread recognition in the press, and even inside the military, that their claims were "valid and legitimate", as retired navy captain Danilo Vizmanos put it to me.
(snip)
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Unknown Known Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
47. German-based Convar tracing hi-volume illegal transfers on 9/11
Richard Wagner, a data retrieval expert at the company, said illegal transfers of more than $100 million might have been made immediately before and during the disaster.

"There is a suspicion that some people had advance knowledge of the approximate time of the plane crashes in order to move out amounts exceeding $100 million," Wagner said. "They thought that the records of their transactions could not be traced after the main frames were destroyed."


http://www.rediff.com/money/2001/dec/17wtc.htm

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Bushfire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
48. Another LBN rule broken I believe
6. When posting articles, please use the published title of the article as the title of the discussion thread.

plus

2. NO news that is more than 12 hours old. (GD might be a great place for discussion on this as well)

----------------------------------------------------------

I don't mind terribly as I don't post very often, but for those that do watch for new articles they could easily post a duplicate post in LBN which makes for more work for the moderators.

Good find btw, and welcome to DU. :hi:
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psychopomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
50. kick
n/t
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IkeWarnedUs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-17-03 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
52. Link to the Washigton Post article
Since I don't see it anywhere else on this thread:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A60916-2003Aug14.html
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psychopomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-03 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
54. kick
n/t
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Dancing_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-03 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
55. Thank you Everybody!
This may really be a DU discusion that goes down in History! At last, The People are really waking up to the whole 9/11 scam! :toast:
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Unknown Known Donating Member (829 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-03 07:31 AM
Response to Original message
57. Kick - A Must Read
The U.S. Corporate Media should stand trial for war crimes against the citizens of the U.S. for complicity in covering up the truth of 9/11. Every single last damn one of the them

:nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-03 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #57
60. Here let me help you to kick this too
A couple of musssings that poped up

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0207/S00087.htm

Justice Department To Attempt Shut Down of 9/11 Evidence Friday

by Tom Flocco *
July 11th, 2002
On June 20, Bush Administration officials quietly informed a New York judge of their intention to commence legal actions likely to be far-reaching in their constitutional, political, and individual rights implications pertaining to current lawsuits and government secrecy related to the attacks on September 11, 2001. The moves were revealed in a letter obtained from a confidential source, with two other sources corroborating its existence, adding additional information.

U.S. Assistant Attorney General for the Civil Division Robert D. McCallum, Jr. and United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York James B. Comey advised U.S. District Judge Alvin Hellerstein, also of the Southern District of New York, that the Department of Justice (DOJ) will intervene to control access to all evidence and documents related to all private litigation before Hellerstein’s court regarding the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 -- citing “grave national security concerns” as their motivation.

The McCallum and Comey correspondence advised Judge Hellerstein of their intention to “seek entry of a global discovery order ,” requiring that 1) “Transportation Security Administration (TSA) be served with all requests for party and non-party discovery,” 2) “defendants and non-parties submit all proposed discovery responses that may contain ‘sensitive security information’ (SSI) to the TSA prior to releasing such material to plaintiffs,” and 3) “TSA have the necessary opportunity to review such material and to withhold ‘sensitive security information’ ” .

One victim family plaintiff -- speaking off the record -- told Scoop Media that family members and their attorneys have not yet sought internal memos, electronic mail, facsimiles, and documents which would shed public light upon what had to be extraordinary legal maneuverings. However, added high stakes related to the publicly undisclosed contents of the controversial August 6, 2001 Presidential intelligence briefing prior to the attacks, and a secret July, 2001 FBI memo -- said to be "50 times more significant than the August 6 briefing," by a Congressional investigator (New York Times, 5-18-2002), will only serve to heighten the importance of the June 20 letter.
(snip)

Also, is this part pages that have been blacked out on the recent 9/11 report

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_1392727,00.html
9/11 families bitter at 'blackout'
25/07/2003 08:24 - (SA)

Related Articles
CIA, FBI blamed in 9/11 report

9/11 could have been prevented

Saudi's 9/11 role in spotlight

Washington - The United States congress probe into the September 11 2001 attacks may have prompted more questions than it answered when 28 pages on a possible role by Saudi Arabia were blacked out by the Bush administration.
The revelation has sparked the indignation of the victims' families.
Jean-Charles Brisard, an attorney for the families, said: "The report shows the significant role played by Saudi government agents in the preparations (for the attacks) which benefited from the royal financial generosity," said .

"It would be inconceivable for the US government to refuse the victims' families the right to the whole and complete truth," he said.
Many in congress feel sure that in the end, the blacked-out part of the report will be made public.
For reasons of national security, the White House blacked out the entire section of the report entitled "Finding, discussion and narrative regarding certain sensitive national security matters."
Saudi ambassador to the US Prince Bandar bin Sultan said: "In a 900-page report, 28 blanked-out pages are being used by some to malign our country and our people.

"Saudi Arabia has nothing to hide. We can deal with questions in public, but we cannot respond to blank pages."
Various sources close to the investigation said the top-secret pages were, for the most part, about the Saudi policy of supporting fundamentalism in the absence of repressing al-Qaeda's terror network despite US alerts to Riyadh since 1996.

Met two future attackers

The report confirms press revelations suggesting that Omar al-Bayoumi, an associate of two of the hijackers, could have been a Saudi government agent.
The report details his ties with September 11 suicide attackers Khaled al-Mihdar and Nawaf al-Hazmi.

(snip)

http://www.americanfreepress.net/07_14_02/Unexplained_9-11_/unexplained_9-11_.html
Unexplained 9-11 Explosion at WTC Complex
Despite the fact that the horrible events of Sept. 11 occurred in broad daylight and were widely photographed, significant aspects of the attacks have been completely suppressed by a media blackout.
Exclusive to American Free Press

By Christopher Bollyn

A massive explosion, witnessed by millions of television viewers on CNN, evidently devastated World Trade Center 6, the eight-story U.S. Customs building, although no national newspaper, other than American Free Press, has written a word about it.
Before the smoke had cleared from around the stricken South Tower, a mysterious explosion shot 550 feet into the air above the U.S. Customs House at WTC 6.

The unexplained blast occurred between the burning North Tower and the 47-story Salomon Brothers Building, known as WTC 7, immediately after United Airlines Flight 175 smashed into the South Tower, at about 9:03 a.m.
The explosion at WTC 6 was shown afterward on CNN. But because it was not broadcast as it happened there has been some confusion about when it actually occurred.
The large amount of smoke seen cascading around the South Tower in the video led some observers to mistake the blast for a dust cloud from the subsequent collapse of the tower.

TIMING CONFIRMED

American Free Press contacted CNN to determine exactly when the footage was filmed.
CNN’s Public Affairs Department confirmed that the explosion shown in the footage occurred immediately after the second plane had crashed into the South Tower. When asked if the footage was taken at 9:04 a.m., the CNN archivist said “that’s correct.”
When asked if CNN could offer any explanation about what might have caused the blast that soared higher than the 47-story WTC 7 in the foreground, the archivist said: “We can’t figure it out
(snip)
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-03 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
61. And typical of the US press, one must go digging to find out .........
things the corporate media does not want others to hear.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/alqaida/story/0,12469,1006074,00.html
Furious Saudis reject US 9/11 claims

Agencies
Friday July 25, 2003

(snip)
First we were criticised by 'unnamed sources'. Now we are being criticised with blank pieces of paper. In a 900-page report, 28 blanked-out pages are being used by some to malign our country and our people," he said. "Saudi Arabia has nothing to hide. We can deal with questions in public, but we cannot respond to blank pages."

Some officials involved in the congressional inquiry said they pushed for additional declassification, but that the White House had refused.

"Since September 11, Saudi Arabia has questioned over 1,000 individuals, arrested more than 500 suspects and succeeded in extraditing al-Qaida members from other countries to face justice," Prince Bandar' statement said.

"Bank accounts of suspected individuals have been frozen and some of the most stringent banking regulations implemented. Saudi Arabia today has one of the toughest counter-terrorism laws and regulations in the world," it added
(snip)
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