Bush, Kerry camps pledge no 'loyalty oaths' for future visits

[Nambe]

CHARLESTON, W.Va. (AP)

West Virginians don't have to worry about having to sign loyalty oaths in order to see President Bush or John Kerry the next time they campaign in the Mountain State.

Some New Mexico residents were recently refused tickets to a speech by Vice President Dick Cheney unless they pledged to endorse Bush for re-election.

Republican Party officials in that state say the oaths help guard against anti-Bush demonstrations.

But officials with the West Virginia campaigns of Bush and Kerry vow to keep future events open to everybody. ..

Ride Don’t Drive It’s Global Cool

[depakid]

1. Just don't wear an anti-Bush t-shirt

or you'll probably still be arrested....

[WindRavenX]

2. Kinda funny...

To the best of my knowledge, Kerry's camp has never used these bs "loyalty oaths", and lo and behold- Bush creeps protest Kerry's speeches!
I guess they didn't want to risk that happening to their own, eh? :eyes:

[Journeyman]

3. And thus ends the second "Glorious Loyalty Oath Crusade". . .

For a full account of the tale of the first "Glorious Loyalty Oath Crusade," see Joseph Heller's Catch-22, the chapter titled "Captain Black."

On edit, found a short excerpt on the web:

http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/jhocking/catch22.html


Almost overnight the Glorious Loyalty Oath Crusade was in full flower, and Captain Black was enraptured to discover himself spearheading it. He had really hit on something. All the enlisted men and officers on combat duty had to sign a loyalty oath to get their map cases from the intelligence tent, a second loyalty oath to receive their flak suits and parachutes from the parachute tent, a third loyalty oath for Lieutenant Balkington, the motor vehicle officer, to be allowed to ride from the squadron to the airfield in one of the trucks. Every time they turned around there was another loyalty oath to be signed.They signed a loyalty oath to get their pay from the finance officer, to obtain their PX supplies, to have their hair cut by the Italian barbers.

To Captain Black, every officer who supported his Glorious Loyalty Oath Crusade was a competitor, and he planned and plotted twnety-four hours a day to keep one step ahead. He would stand second to none in his devotion to country. When other officers had followed his urging and introduced loyalty oaths of their own, he went them one better by making every son of a bitch who came to his intelligence tent sign two loyalty oaths, then three, then four; then he introduced the pledge of allegiance, and after that "The Star-Spangled Banner," one chorus, two choruses, three choruses, four choruses. Each time Captain Black forged ahead of his competitors, he swung upon them scornfully for their failure to follow his example. Each time they followed his example, he retreated with concern and racked his brain for some new strategem that would enable him to turn upon them scornfully again.

Without realizing how it had come about, the combat men in the squandron discovered themselves dominated by the administrators appointed to serve them. They were bullied, insulted, harassed and shoved about all day long by one after the other. When they voiced objection, Captain Black replied that people who were loyal would not mind signing all the loyalty oaths they had to. To anyone who questioned the effectiveness of the loyalty oaths, he replied that people who really did owe allegiance to their country would be proud to pledge it as often as he forced them to. And to anyone who questioned the morality, he replied that "The Star-Spangled Banner" was the greatest piece of music ever composed. The more loyalty oaths a person signed, the more loyal he was; to Captain Black it was as simple as that, and he had Corporal Kolodny sign hundreds with his name each day so that he could always prove he was more loyal than anyone else.

"The important thing is to keep them pledging," he explained to his cohorts. "It doesn't matter whether they mean it or not. That's why they make little kids pledge allegiance even before they know what 'pledge' and 'allegiance' mean."

[drhilarius]

4. You know it's going bad for them when...

they take their campaign cues from us. Kerry and his supporters strike against the Swift boat Vets for "truth". The WH repudiates them. Bush, seeing Kerry's veering away from attack ads, does his own Kerry-esque "I'm Dubya, nice t' meet ya" ad. And now he sees that the Kerry campaign refuses to make people sign oaths, so he will do like wise. And they say we're the one's without original ideas.

[joeunderdog]

11. Why have a rally if there's no one to rally?

If the only people you have at the speech are people who already are voting for you, then why campaign? What a waste of Shrub's time. I say, keep the loyalty oath thing going. Preach to the Believers til November.

It's like getting free brochures with every purchase.

[displacedtexan]

14. They stir up their base in order to make money.

That loyalty oath info is a trick to get your name and city info... that way, they can solicit donations from you.

You're correct: BushCo isn't campaigning. They're selling a product.

[Ilsa]

34. ITA and have been saying this for awhile.

Let them preach to the choir, keep the interested Independents out of their rallies.

What a chickenshit campaign.

[Piperay]

38. They want to have a big friendly crowd for the TV cameras

so that after they steal the election it will look like they actually had supporters. :scared:

[Jawja]

12. * is the "me, too!"

candidate. It did that to Gore in 2000. Everytime Gore came out with something original, * grabbed it and said, "me, too!!"

[LauraK]

5. The oath is an interesting legal issue.

A friend of mine is one of Oregon's most successful attorneys. Three or four years ago, he decided to go to a bush fundraiser because he knew he would be stuck in the city that night anyway. He sent them a $3,000 check just for something interesting to do. They sent him back the usual paperwork which included a loyalty oath. For business reasons, he avoids any political affiliations but in spite of that he says the legal ramifications are enormous. That document could come back to haunt you for the rest of your life. Say dick or george were convicted of high crimes and you found yourself in a criminal investigation down the road. This document makes you a known associate of a convicted criminal. The list of possible liabilities is a long one. What if you were defending a "liberal" in a huge lawsuit and lost. Could this document be used to show you had a pre-existing bias toward your client which resulted in the loss of the suit? This is not a pledge of loyalty to the party, it's a pledge of loyalty to a group of political power icons. Scary stuff.

[trogdor]

22. Well, they're just a lot dumber than you, that's all.

You see this coming a mile away. Most Pubbies can't see past the noses on their faces. Besides, why waste time campaigning for people who are going to vote for you anyway? Why exclude the fence-sitters? Why exclude soft-support Democrats? It just doesn't make any sense.

OTOH, maybe we should both just shut up and hope the Bushies don't read any of this. ;-)

[deacon]

6. Um, I don't remember Kerry asking for a any signature pledge anywhere

more media bs.

[TXDemGal]

7. Exactly!

So why doesn't the AP say that? Cuz they were taking dictation from Gen. Rove, perhaps?

[Jack The Tab]

28. I hate our media...I hate our media...I hate our media...

I just put my hands over my ears and chant it all day long..

[denverbill]

33. My thoughts exactly. Only Shrub did that, and pissed off independents.

Now they are trying to smear Kerry for doing something that only Shrubby did.

[Kukesa]

39. No, done were required in Dayton.

When Kerry-Edwards appeared here in July, I was on the headquarters team for the rally. we DID NOT require pledges or oaths of any kind to receive a ticket -- we gave tickets away to anyone who asked.

[DoYouEverWonder]

8. This article is so misleading

Why is Kerry's name even mentioned? It is written has if Kerry required people to sign loyalty oaths and has also decided to discontinue the practice. However, Kerry has had nothing to do with this despicable practice and the AP folks are making him guilty by association. I guess AP really stands for American Pravda.

[FloridaPat]

9. Why should tax payers pay for these if all the tax payers can't

go to the events?

[sandraj]

10. loyalty oaths

have nothing to do with anti-Bush demonstrations

these guys simply never outgrew their adolescence (i.e., frat boy mentality)

[arwalden]

13. I'd Take The "Oath" And Protest Anyway... Big Deal. So What?

Will they hold me in contempt of an oath? Will they FORCE me to 'pull-the-lever' for the criminal Bush*?

What maroons!

-- Allen

[TahitiNut]

30. One big reason the Repugnants would use "loyalty oaths" ...

... and the Democrats would not is the far higher (sometimes obsessive) personal integrity of people on the left. Even if the "Kerry camp" were to consider such a mechanism, who the hell would expect it to cause reichbots to even pause?

In a sense, the Repugnants offer a backhanded kind of respect to folks on the left by even presuming the effectiveness of such an approach.

That said, it wouldn't stop me either. I'd pause and have a twinge of conscience ... but such a grossly dishonest and antidemocratic barrier deserves no accommodation whatsoever.

[randr]

15. I wish Kerry would remind the hecklers that they don't

have to sign a loyalty oath in his America!

[mumon]

16. the oaths help guard against anti-Bush demonstrations...

And we wouldn't want Bushy-Bushy to know what people actually think, right? And we certainly wouldn't want people to actually express what they think, now, would we?

Oh, how, benevolent of the West Virginians!

Geez...

[sniffa]

17. another fLip fLop by dubya

that's caLLed 'strong Leadership'

[DrBB]

18. "Bush, *KERRY* camps"??? We gotta put Kerry in?

Um, gee guys, I don't think the Kerry camp ever required em or were thinking of it. But hey, gotta be "balanced" right? If the GOP side completely fucks up, the other side has to get tarred with the same brush somehow, right? Too bad it doesn't work the other way around, huh?

[Ramsey]

19. Exactly, what BS

Kerry NEVER restricted access to his rallies, although this article implies that he did!

[TankLV]

23. IT WAS ONLY bush* WHO REQUIRED THAT SHIT!

Damn straight. Why indeed bring "Kerry" into the subject?

This makes me even more angrier than I already am with ALL repukes!

[redqueen]

20. Let's encourage them to correct that misleading headline

Your link went to a different story... I found this one at:
http://www.wchstv.com/newsroom/wv/news7.shtml

Address to send comments to:
[e-mail]

[lostnfound]

29. Done - Wrote an email. nt

[Markus182]

41. Me too!

n/t

[trogdor]

21. I guess WV Republicans are less stupid than those in NM.

The whole idea behind a campaign is to get people who are still on the fence, and those who oppose you, to see things your way. Loyalty oaths kind of defeat the whole purpose of campaigning, since you are then preaching to the choir.

[Canuckistanian]

24. This shouldn't even be an issue

The Kerry camp should have immediately pointed out that it was absurd to even request loyalty signatures.

No "vows" should be needed. Last time I checked, the jobs of the President and Vice-President were classified as "civil servant".

This demanding of fealty makes a mockery of the idea that the Administration serves the people and not the other way around.

[Bandit]

25. Money talks and bullshit walks

When they were threatened with having to pay the cities for all expenses because they were holding Private rallies that weren't open to the general public they suddenly saw the light. They definitely do not want to have to pay all the expenses that are generated by their BS visits to anya and all cities. They are not doing this because it is the right thing to do they are doing it because of money.

[annabanana]

27. I knew it!

They would never have 86'd that stupid policy for altruistic reasons.

[KurtNYC]

26. Let Cheney have his oaths - keeps his lies away from the

Undecideds and swings.

[prolesunited]

31. This is EXTREMELY misleading

As has been pointed out, Kerry NEVER required this but the story appears as if he had. Let's let them know we're paying attention.

1. How do I send a correction or letter to the editor?
Send an email to [e-mail] and it will be forwarded to the reporter or editor.

Main Number
[phone]

http://www.ap.org/pages/contact/contact.html

Get busy folks and let's get them to correct this story! :bounce:

[redqueen]

32. Thanks proles for the AP contact info - sending them my thoughts now.

:yourock:

[prolesunited]

35. You're welcome!

Hope others will take a minute to do so as well. I've found a curtly worded letter that addresses the points gets more attention than an obscenity-laced tirade (not that anyone here would do that.)

[burrowowl]

36. Where loyality oaths

were required by the Bu$h campaign, they should be made to pay for the entirety of the use of Air Force 1 and 2.

[They_LIHOP]

37. My Letter to AP

Dear Ombudsman:

Today's AP article based in Charleston, WV, wherein the Bush administration repudiates THEIR OWN use of 'loyalty oaths' to dictate who is allowed in to their campaign rallies is truly PATHETIC.

John Kerry's campaign has NEVER required such oaths be signed for the PUBLIC to attend their campaign stops. ONLY BUSH HAS DONE THIS.

Yet your article paints them with the same brush, as though the Kerry campaign pulls this same UNDEMOCRATIC stunt. BUT THEY DO NOT! Never have, anyway. How you could get a story so WRONG is just amazing.

I've been saying for months that AP is quickly sliding into Faux News territory with the way they word their headlines and articles, and this article absolutely CLINCHES it for me. I've seen you guys do this sort of thing TOO MANY TIMES. From now on, to me, AP stands for American Pravda.

And by the way? The reason Bush and Co. are doing this is because the CITIES they are appearing in have begun to BILL THEIR CAMPAIGN for the PRIVATE PARTIES they are throwing on the taxpayers dollars. Don't pretend this is some benevolent mea culpa on their part. IT IS NOT.

Sincerely
ME

[tomfodw]

40. This is nonsense...

...since, as far as I've read, Kerry never did require "loyalty oaths". He and Edwards have been joyfully sparring with hecklers at their events.

This is like Kerry pledging not to overbill US taxpayers for supposed corporate services performed in Iraq.

Treating them as if they both had to make this pledge is ridiculous, since to the uninformed (i.e., most Americans) it will seem as if both had previously required such oaths, when in fact only the Bush campaign had. Typical press nonsense.

[flaminbats]

42. Did the Kerry campaign even require loyalty oaths?

But officials with the West Virginia campaigns of Bush and Kerry vow to keep future events open to everybody. ..

I think Kerry's actions speak for themselves.

[Nambe]

43. I spent a little time deep searching.

papa bush's CIA used them in central america but it appears dimson is the first to use them for his media events.

[rocktivity]

44. The story has disappeared from the WV News site

But the First Amendment Center grabbed it.

I don't think the AP was wrong in asking the Kerry camp about loyalty oaths, but yes, they should have pointed out that they did not have record of requiring them.

:headbang:
rocknation