Alabama Executes 74- Year-Old Man

[Nambe]

Washington Post

J.B. Hubbard's failing body kept him lying in bed -- a bunk on Alabama's death row -- most of the last days of his life. Other inmates say they walked his wobbly frame to the showers and listened to him complain about the pain: the cancer in his colon and prostate, the hypertension, the aching back. They combed his hair because he couldn't. They washed him. ..

His case has set off a wave of debate about the death penalty -- and its lengthy, sometimes decades-long, appeals process -- while refocusing attention on the legions of aging men in the nation's prisons.

"If we're going to call ourselves a civilized society, I see no point in it," said Lucia Penland of the Alabama Prison Project, a Montgomery-based advocacy group for death row inmates. ". . . It seems mean-spirited." ..

Ride Don’t Drive It’s Global Cool

[RivetJoint]

1. I just can't undertsand this

This sickens me...

[Gman]

2. "It seems mean-spirited"???

Ms. Penland is beginning to understand the core being of the right wing.

[prolesunited]

3. Given the severity of his cancer

perhaps they should have termed the execution as euthanasia and Ashcroft would have rushed in to put a stop to it.

What purposes did the state's killing of this man serve? Justice? :eyes:

I would like to see the death penalty abolished, but in the meantime, can't we just stop executing those with mental illness, retardation, those under 18 and those who are old and infirm? That would at least be a start.

[liberalnurse]

6. I think you are right on target!

Probably a State "cost savings" too.

Additionally, I can't understand why the televised media never, ever addressed this....in-humane travesty.

How long was he on death row?

[Bo]

45. You live in America

Here even Clinton put a retarded man to death.

[Bo]

46. You live in America

Here even Clinton put a retarded man to death.

[saigon68]

49. I DO REMEMBER THAT--The guy wanted His PIECE OF PIE SAVED

So he could EAT IT AFTER THE EXECUTION WAS OVER.

[cmkramer]

54. Misleading

Ricky Ray Rector was not retarded when he committed his crime. During his arrest, he shot himself in the head thus causing his brain damage. Arkansas law states that it is your condition at the time you did whatever you did that has gotten you the death penalty that counts -- not what happened after.

I oppose the death penalty in all cases but it's a leftwing lie that Rector was some gentle Forrest Gump-like innocent who couldn't be held responsible for what he did because he lacked the mental capacity to understand that murder is wrong.

Incidentally, the other lie usually told about this case is that Clinton made a special trip home to Arkansas to execute Rector. The truth is that Clinton always cancelled all public appearances when there was an execution and stayed in the Governor's Mansion. In George Stephanopoulos' book, he wrote that he accompanied the then-Governor back to Little Rock during that time. Stephanopoulos had wanted Clinton to commute Rector's sentence since he was afraid that it would anger the base if he let the execution go forward and he said that he and Clinton spent the time in the mansion discussing their opposing viewpoints on the death penalty and how they came to believe what they did about the subject.

Obviously, Clinton is not a dumb man, so he probably understood that there was a faction of the voting public who would approve of his actions here.

[saigon68]

60. THE PIE PART WAS CORRECT

Abolitionists continued the struggle, clinging to the belief that by gradually educating the public about the ugly reality of capital punishment, American style, change would inevitably come. But politics dealt that conviction a mighty blow as Michael Dukakis' rote, emotionless response to a question challenging his death penalty opposition in the 1988 presidential debate nearly sealed the question for good, tying abolition securely to the ACLU-card-carrying-low-testosterone-crowd and drawing huge snorts of derision from red-blooded Americans.

The question, it seemed, was settled. "The death penalty only cuts one way in politics, you kill," a lesson not lost on candidate Clinton, who raced home from the New Hampshire hustings to preside over the death of brain-damaged Ricky Ray Rector, who showed his awareness of his fate by leaving the dessert from his last meal waiting in his cell "for later," when he returned from the death chamber
http://www.mikefarrell.org/Farrell/Seismic_Shift.html

[smirkymonkey]

56. Good point.

What f**ing hypocrites they are. "YOU can't ask to be mercifully put to death. Only WE can put you to death, and in the most ugly, painful way possible"

What a sick society we live in.

[WI_DEM]

4. I've never understood how the right wing can be

so pro-life and then support the death penalty. I will say this much for the Catholic Church, at least they are consistent pro-life and against the death penalty. The death penalty has no validity. It has been proven to be a non-deterent. It is discriminatory and there have been many cases of people executed who didn't commit the crimes they were convicted of.

[snippy]

7. The right wing is not pro-life, just anti-abortion. n/t

[Bandit]

44. Not even anti abortion... Anti Choice

Not even close to Pro-Life.......just Anti-Choice

[msanthrope]

15. Judgment.....the right wing likes judgment....

Babies are innocent, and criminals aren't.

What a powerful, God-like rush, to give life to the innocent and take the lives of the ungodly.

[bobbieinok]

51. I think you've hit the answer.....but religious right believes all are

born in sin. They don't have the option the Roman Catholics have of baptizing the baby immediately so that it's soul will not go to hell.

[saigon68]

27. THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HAS NONE OF THIS

Their so called KNIGHTS OF COLUMBUS held a NATIONAL LOVE FEST FOR THE CHIMPANZEE RECENTLY.

Thousands shouted FOUR MORE YEARS-- FOUR MORE YEARS.

Link http://www.kofc.org/news/releases/detail.cfm?id=3923

see below

"Why was President Bush invited to this year’s Supreme Convention?

as we did this year with a resolution on abortion,euthanasia **** in a resolution endorsing the Federal Marriage Amendment, and in another resolution endorsing the Flag Amendment.




The knights could care less about the DEATH PENALTY. They DO CARE ABOUT THE FLAG AND Keeping the fags under control. They also don't like women a lot either.



The average parishioner could care less about the DEATH PENALTY.


Most Catholics I KNOW love the Death Penalty. THEY also love when it is applied to Darkies and N----ers. They told me so.

[sandnsea]

35. lumping people together

It isn't fair and it's not true. The Catholic Church has traditionally been one of the leading advocates of ending the death penalty. I will never understand why the Church made this rightward move. But the rank and file are no different than any other Americans and I would venture a guess most are more sympathetic to social issues than their Protestant counterparts. Works has traditionally been a central part of the Catholic faith. The KC doesn't represent all Catholics any more than George Bush represents all Americans.

[saigon68]

48. No but they are active

I don't see any group of Catholics traveling thousands of miles in the thousands, to lobby against the "DEATH PENALTY"

Oconto Catholic priest concerned over drop in church attendance

http://www.ocontocountyreporter.com/page.html?article=101882

And if I painted toO Broad a brush I am sorry---

But the Hitler Youth Rally http://www.the-tidings.com/2004/0806/bush.htm

I saw on TV last night was too much to Handle.

EXAMPLE BELOW

Bush called the Knights "soldiers in the armies of compassion" and lauded the fraternal group as "one of the great American organizations dedicated to charity and mutual assistance and the fight for civil liberties."

"You have a friend in this administration," he said. "You have someone who wants to work with you."





Though the Knights of Columbus is a nonpartisan organization, Supreme Knight Carl Anderson welcomed Bush by saying his visit to the convention provided "our chance to say thank you, Mr. President. Thank you for restoring moral integrity to the office of the presidency."

ONWARD CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS KILL RAGHEADS

[phatkatt]

5. This will be used to argue for "streamlining" the process!

"His case has set off a wave of debate about the death penalty -- and its lengthy, sometimes decades-long, appeals process"

We just gotta git rid of dem appeals what dem libruls make us'n go thru!

FWIW: I live in Alabama

[annabanana]

9. So what you're saying is.........

"this sumbitch shud've bin dead years ago"
ugh... how can you live among them?

[QC]

31. "ugh... how can you live among them?"

Feeling particularly self-righteous today?

If by "them" you mean Alabamians, there are quite a few of "them" posting here, loyal DUers and Democrats in a place where being a liberal is not easy.

[DBoon]

10. Yeah, just let the cops shoot them and leave the body

lying by the road - as I read Mussolini used to do.

Why even bother with a justice system in the first place if it lets criminals live longer?

While I am being darkly sarcastic, I know many people who WOULD approve of this (shudder...)

[trogdor]

40. Or maybe bring back crucifixion.

Rows of rotting criminals on crosses visible from I-20 would be a very effective deterrent, I guess.

[snippy]

8. Did Bush mock this man's death with an F-bomb laced tantrum?

He likes to do that you know.

[Surf Cowboy]

11. I remember his attorney's argument

was that the Defendant was "too old and too ill" to die.

That has to be one of the stupidest arguments I've ever heard, akin to "she's too wet to jump in the pool."

And, by the way, he deserved what he got.

He was sentenced to death for the 1977 killing of a 62 year-old woman who befriended and took care of his sorry ass after he was released from prison, having served a sentence for (wait for it) MURDER.

The sonofabitch SHOULD have been dead a long time ago, in which case that 62 year-old Samaritan could have helped someone worth a shit.

It helps on occasion to think about the real victims.

[Bridget Burke]

12. When they execute a millionaire, I'll re-think my position

on the death penalty.

It will never happen. Definitely, some people need to be locked away forever.

[Surf Cowboy]

13. Just out of curiosity..

How many millionaires have been convicted of premeditated murder in states with a death penalty?

I know there have been a few, but I don't remember their names or whether they got a chance to sit in "'ol sparky."

[Jacobin]

16. That's the point

Rich white folks don't seem to "merit" consideration by D.A.'s for a death prosecution. You see, the DA gets to decide whether to ask for it.

Convenient, no?

Oh, and if you haven't read about rich white folks being convicted of premeditated murder, I'm not sure what to tell you. I'd google, but, so could you.

[Surf Cowboy]

20. I don't ever remember reading

that the Alabama murderer was black. I guess from your replies that he was.

I had to google my ass off in order to find some #'s we could trust (most were either from kill 'em all groups or set the murderers free groups). Here is what I found (I'm sure there is a better way, but this is the best I could do on short notice):

According to the US Department of Jutice (NCJ 197020, published December 2002 and NCJ 201848, published November 2003)--


Persons under sentence of death at year-end
2002 2001
3,557 3,581
White 1,567 1,611
Black 1,554 1,538
Latino 364 358
Asian 33 33
Native American 27 28
Unknown Race 12 13

Total inmates received under sentence of death
159 155
Youngest death row inmate at year-end
18 19
Oldest death row inmate at year-end
87 86
Number of Executions
71 66
Male
69 63
Female
2 3
White
47 45
Black
18 17
Latino
6 3
Native American
0 1

Top 5 number of executions by state Texas, 33

Oklahoma, 7

Missouri, 6

Georgia, 4

Virginia, 4

Oklahoma, 18

Texas, 17

Missouri, 7

North Carolina, 5

Georgia, 4

States with more than 200 inmates on death row at year-end California, 614

Texas, 450

Florida, 366

Pennsylvania, 241

North Carolina, 206

Ohio, 205
California, 603

Texas, 453

Florida, 372

Pennsylvania, 241

North Carolina, 216

Ohio, 203





Of the 3,557 inmates under a sentence of death at year-end 2002, 8% had previously been convicted of a homicide. At the time of the capital offense:

241 had charges pending in other cases
336 were on probation
556 were on parole
38 were prison escapees
103 were already incarcerated

http://groups.msn.com/usdeathpenalty/

I don't know who wrote it, but I have read the same stats quoted by (as I said before) completely different factions, and they are consistent, so I'm assuming that the Federal Data is accepted.

At any rate, it doesn't appear that race is as big an issue as $.

[Jose Diablo]

22. Well, I remember some hot shot assistant dist attorney in Atlanta Georgia

that was convicted about 10 years ago for having contracted to have his wife murdered because she was getting ready to file divorce papers. She was kidnapped and murdered, with their child in the car. The murderer confessed and said the husband paid him to do it.

The husband went to jail, but was not sentenced to death.

So there is your millionaire that was convicted of premeditated murder that did not get "old sparky".

It is bullshit to try to convince some people that justice in America is all about how much money you have. Thus, capital punishment is inherently unfair, it is not justice at all.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

25. The average time for males that kill their wives is 8 years

[amazona]

26. interesting -- a friend's dad murdered his mom in the early 40s

He did get out in 8 years. But it was a crime of passion thing -- I think it often is when husbands kill wives. He actually got his kids back when he got out. It used to be thought that murderers, at least crime of passion murderers, were the least likely to repeat their crime. The only person he ever killed after that was himself -- drunk driving. A sad story but I don't think it would have been improved if he'd been executed or kept inside for life. This was in Arkansas, I often wondered if he'd have gotten out so quickly in Louisiana or Texas, or if it was just the times were more forgiving.

[Jose Diablo]

43. Contract killing for the reason of divorce is not a crime of passion

it is cold blooded murder for financial benefit.

The comparing of the two are apples and oranges.

[amazona]

55. well i agree with you there

I didn't intend a comparison, actually -- just responding to the other comment because my friend had been led to believe that his dad was released early for some reason or other and it sounds like his sentence was exactly average.

[Surf Cowboy]

29. Where did this stat come from?

[smirkymonkey]

57. Sickening.

I guess our criminal justice system still considers wives to be property.

[msanthrope]

17. He never should have gotten out the first time.....

I support LWOP for murder. Limit the number of possible subsequent victims.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

19. SO just how was this a "deterrent to crime"?

Isn't the argument for the death penalty that the law is a deterrent to crime? How is executing an infirm man a deterrent to crime when he doesn't have the strength to commit a crime?

Do you reaize that as civilized society goes, putting elderly and YOUTH to death puts us on the par of nations such as Saudid Arabia, China and other more despotic regimes?

DO you realize that of the most "civilized" "developed" nations we are the only one that does this and our crime rates are high compared to countries that don't?

[Surf Cowboy]

21. You want deterrent?

It doesn't exist. Putting people in prison doesn't deter, either, hence "recidivism." So, since there's no deterrent in incarceration, should we just let 'em all go? Can they stay at your house?

[Heddi]

23. what part of Life without Parole

leads to recidivism? How can someone who is locked up for the rest of their lives in a maximum security facility reoffend?

This I don't understand.

According to you, you say "Putting people in prison doesn't deter, either" so what do YOU suggest? Just killing all criminals on sight? No trial, no nothing? :eyes:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

24. Wow...you're obviously erudite on the topic (NOT)

First of all the studies claiming there is NO rehabilitation were done back in the 70's and were flawed. That was when states gave UP on rehabilitation and the recidivism rate followed the mindset you have provided. Rehabilitation IS possible just not when people are animalized as they are in American prisons.

Putting people in prison can be both PUNISHMENT and a means of rehabilitating them so that they MAY function in society...you should ask yourself why the recidivism rates are lower in nations such as Canada, France, and other European nations compared to America where the recidivism rate is extraordinarily high.

Frankly, I don't see much of a difference between what is in their hearts and what is in yours.

[Surf Cowboy]

28. Sorry to disappoint you,

but life without parole doesn't really cut it. If some asshole kills your mother, you're supposed to support him for the last 30-50 years of his life with your tax money? So that he won't get what's coming to him, what he gave your mom? I've said it before, those who turn the other cheek generally get the shit knocked out of it.

[prolesunited]

34. You're not talking about justice

You're talking about revenge.

BTW, if you apparently hate criminals so much, why do you defend them? Why would you enable them to be back on the streets again?

[Surf Cowboy]

30. Oh and by the way,

I'm a criminal defense attorney and have been for some time, so actually, YES, I am rather erudite on the subject, having defended hundreds of criminal defendants, many, many, many of them more than 3 times for different offenses. What is your criminal justice background?

[Mel]

42. so have you heard about

The Innocence Project?
http://www.innocenceproject.org/

Do you ever wonder if your being involved with criminal defense day in and day has made you bitter? Reason I ask is your 'oh by the way and what is your criminal justice background' sounds mean of course the words might look that way written and you didn't mean for it to read that way.
I would have to say I would be worried if someone like you was representing me if I was innocent I would be damn scared!

What about that one timer that comes in do you think of them as being a possible three timer or maybe do you think they are actually innocent?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

47. Yeah right....I believe that...and I'm Mary Poppins...a spoonful of sugar

cures diabetes. BTW, I am a lawyer in real life. By your posts alone I know you've never represented a defendent nor prosecuted a case. The answer to your other questions is that the statistic is from several domestic violence groups.

[QC]

37. Thanks for reminding us of the victim.

They are usually forgotten; certainly no one in this thread has expressed even the slightest curiosity about Lillian Montgomery. I have read a bit about the case because it happened near a town where I lived for about five years and I still follow the local news there.

Montgomery was, by all accounts, a very good woman, very charitable, and her family is still living with the pain of losing her. It's hard enough to lose someone to natural causes, but to have your mother shot in the face and left to bleed to death on the floor of her kitchen is more than I can stand even to think about. And, as you point out, Montgomery was the second person Hubbard has murdered. His first victim was a man named David Dockery, whom he killed in 1957. (He killed Montgomery just one year after being released early from his sentence for that murder.) So that's two families whom Hubbard devastated, not to mention the terrible pain he has caused his own daughters.

Does this mean that I believe in capital punishment? No. I don't support it because it makes killers of us all. But there's no denying that Hubbard was a vicious person, and it's a bit much to weep and wail and put on sackcloth over him without giving even a single thought to why he was in prison to start with.

[xchrom]

14. just when you think you've reached the bottom

of the barrel -- they find a new low to sink to.

[Heddi]

18. Wow! That'll teach HIM never to commit a crime again

I wonder how many wayward youths & middle agers will be deterred by this swift form of justice? How many crimes has this prevented?

I'm sure that this AM, hundreds...nay, MILLIONS of gang-related youth, and wayward adults will turn their lives around, get off the streets, put down the gun, give up the needle, and become god fearing members of society because this old man was put to death. Or because someone else in another state was put to death. Or because a mentally retarded kid in Texas was put to death.

Where's the lower crime rate? Where's the deterrent?

And for those who say 'Well, it's not to deter OTHERS, it's to stop a murderer from murdering again', I say "How could that not have been accomplished by Life without Parole?"

For those who say "I don't want some murderin' bastard livin' on MY dime", I say that it costs MILLIONS of dollars to put someone to death because of the endless appeals they're given, as opposed to just a few hundred thousand to keep someone locked up from age 18 til 74 (average age of death for most people).

But then again, logic seems to fly in the face of those who are so bloodthirsty as to not see the logical fallacy in this arugment:

If I kill you (outside of self defense), it's murder
for murder, I get the death penalty
In order for the death penalty to be carried out, someone must kill me.
BUT

the person who kills me isn't a murderer. They're paid by the state and encouraged by the state to kill me on behalf of the state.

Why is one murder, but the other is a 'civic duty' or whatever bullshit code-words death penalty appologists use?

[Bill McBlueState]

32. we should find the executioners

the person who kills me isn't a murderer. They're paid by the state and encouraged by the state to kill me on behalf of the state.

It would be great if somehow we could get the names of the "doctors" who preside over lethal injections and harass them. Someone with the "medical" know-how to use the various chemicals has to be present for an execution. Who are these people and what the hell is wrong with them?

[CarinKaryn]

33. the old man suffered from dementia

and probably had no idea what was being done to him.

[Joanne98]

36. I read this as

the christians were keeping him alive because he was suffering. it he had been young and healthy they would have fried him.

[QC]

38. That's very damning, if true.

What do you base it on? Do you have any hard facts in that direction, or is it just a hunch?

Call me crazy, but I think it's more likely that his two trials and numerous appeals might explain why he was on death row so long.

[impe]

39. What a crock

I think his rotting in prison along with his accelerated cancer condition is punishment enough. Executing him after all these years does exactly what in the name of justice! Of course, this will deter and be a lesson to all those old folks out there who think they can get away with murder.

I feel safer now.

[kwolf68]

41. Wow

How Christian of Alabama?

Hey...killing people isn't as important as the freaking pledge, "God" on the dollar bill, or what two people do in the privacy of their own lives.

[bushwakker]

50. I knew I felt much safer today.

thank God that old guy is gone.

[Mandate My Ass]

52. Utterly barbaric (eom)

[Jack_DeLeon]

53. I dont see what the big deal is...

Are people actually implying that this guy is too old to be executed?

That in his fragile state putting him to death might kill him?

[struggle4progress]

58. Everybody feel safer now? eom

[King Roland]

59. The death penalty was apropo here

I think it's funny you carefully omitted the parts about him being a cold blooded murderer, killing a poor, helpless women that only wanted to help him by giving him a job. No matter his age he deserved to die, he was scum, just because he was old doesn't make him a saint.

[nolabels]

61. Your Cadillac has got a wheel in the ditch and a wheel on the track

Banjo's play thru the broken glass, swing low ;(