More than 1,200 militiamen surrender in Najaf: police

[pifflePill]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/iraq_unrest_shiites

BAGHDAD (AFP) - More than 1,200 militiamen loyal to radical Shiite cleric Moqtada Sadr surrendered following fierce clashes with US and Iraqi forces in Najaf, the police general directorate said.

"Over 1,200 criminals have surrendered to Iraqi forces," it said in a statement, adding that the holy city of Najaf had been "secured."

It said most of the captured militiamen were criminals who were released from Iraqi prisons by ousted president Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) before last year's US-led invasion.

The statement accused Sadr's Mehdi Army of wanting to "destablise the country," and vowed "this operation will continue until this illegal and cruel violence has been quelled."

------

Looks like hope is on its way in Iraq.

[NMDemDist2]

1. hmmmm sounds fishy since teh Iraq blogs are filled with

weapons caches in mosques and sistani out of the country el Sadr is pretty much in charge

[htuttle]

2. This smells like psyops

I'm reminded of the first few days of the invasion, when US Army Psyops put out reports that several Iraqi divisions had surrended en masse. It was an attempt to demoralize the Iraqis, and try to spur some of them to actually surrender.

Why would a militiaman surrender to authorities if they wanted to stop fighting? Couldn't they just stow the gun away and go home? This isn't happening out in the desert somewhere. It's happening in a city, where lots of other people live.

Sniff, sniff. Psyops.

[markses]

3. Anyone who believes this story is braindead in the extreme

Little more than Iraqi police propaganda. If 1200 "militiamen" surrendered, al-Sadr would be in custody.

Don't be a fool.

[pifflePill]

6. How to not be a fool

Perhaps a wee bit of evidence supporting your pretense would save the lesser educated the pain of being labeled a fool for reading the news. Is there some information you have that we potiential fools could use to become more in tune with the preferred angle of this news report?

[markses]

11. The point is that YOU have no evidence

The Iraqi police say one thing. The Mehdi army people say another. Unless you have some photograph of 1200 prisoners being marched off somewhere - or even 20 prisoners for that matter - then you'd be a fool to believe at face value the word of a party with a dog in the fight, especially given the strategic value of having fighters in, say, Basra, think that 1200 fighters in Najaf have surrendered. Any child would see this. Not pifflePill. And you ask me for evidence? I'm still waiting for yours. Oh, the Iraqi "general police directorate" said so? Sorry. I'd no more believe that than I'd believe without further evidence a Monsanto study "proving" the safety of genetically modified food. And anyone would be a fool to believe that kind of statement without further evidence. So let me know when you have some real evidence - other than this unaccountable statement.

Get real.

[pifflePill]

20. I just don't know what to believe

When it's bad news about Iraq it's taken as gospel but just let a news report promise any good news and it's doubted like bad aunt. Please tell me what to believe because I'm obviously too stupid to figure it out on my own and being real is being defined by someone above me.

[thebigidea]

24. there's good news coming out of Iraq? do tell us.

hospitals blah blah textbooks blah blah schools blah blah BLAH

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[markses]

31. That's outrageous

And a personal attack on everyone on this board.

How dare you.

[markses]

30. When it's bad news

It is usually accompanied by some evidence. Say, a burning hulk of a car bomb with wounded being loaded away, or, say, the bodies of US military personnel. There is plenty of good news accompanied by evidence. Thios, however, is not one of those occasions. As for your being too stupid, I'm sure that's not the case. Too ideologically bglinded to notice the simple fact that you have no evidence (or even other observation) to support the claim of the interested party? Probably.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dhalgren]

18. You hit the nail on the head, Markses!

Let's wait for a reliable source before we start forming up triumphal marches.

[dweller]

4. Are they anxious

for the torture that's awaiting them as p.o.w.s?

if i knew that was my fate, i'd take a surer, more noble route to the end.
dp

[leftchick]

5. LOL... hope is on it's way!

Indeed.... :eyes:

[markses]

8. I think this is the kind of hope Obama condemned

John Kerry calls on us to hope. John Edwards calls on us to hope. I'm not talking about blind optimism here-the almost willful ignorance that thinks unemployment will go away if we just don't talk about it, or the health care crisis will solve itself if we just ignore it.

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about something more substantial. It's the hope of slaves sitting around a fire singing freedom songs; the hope of immigrants setting out for distant shores; the hope of a young naval lieutenant bravely patrolling the Mekong Delta; the hope of a mill worker's son who dares to defy the odds; the hope of a skinny kid with a funny name who believes that America has a place for him, too.

Hope in the face of difficulty, hope in the face of uncertainty, the audacity of hope.

---------------------------------------------

Almost willful ignorance. Almost a good description of the first post on this thread! ;-)

[leftchick]

15. precisely markses...

well said... ;)

[Media_Lies_Daily]

7. Are flying pigs selling bridges. too?

[pifflePill]

9. I reread the story and saw no mention of flying pigs

Perhaps I missed it and was confused by the prospect of a positive report. Shame on me.

[htuttle]

10. A positive report

Would be news of a new cease fire/truce with al Sadr. Something believable.

Every other report I'm reading, especially from the British news media, describe an entirely different situation than this report.

:shrug:

[markses]

12. Oh, I believe you

are confused because you desperately want to see a positive report.

A measured analysis of the story on your part would note that the report is hardly corroborated by any credible source, and constitutes little more than an unaccountable statement by an interested party.

It is a shame that your deep desire for a positive report has clouded your judgment (no doubt otherwise acute) in this particular case. Many of us have a deep desire for positive reports, but we shouldn't let enthusiasm and optimism cover over or distort real conditions. That would be foolish.

[Dhalgren]

17. This story sort of sounds like the beginings of

"the Five O'Clock Follies" Redux (or ala Bhagdad). What a hoot! The US propaganda ministry in Bhagdad put out numbers a while back for as-Sadr's "militia" as something like 1000-1500 total (if I remember correctly). Now they say that 1200 surrenders in one town while hundreds more fight in numerous other locations. "Uh, right, sir, uh, that's affirmative!" Shit...

[saigon68]

27. THE FIVE O'CLOCK FOLLIES ARE BACK

KRAZY KILLER KIMMITT AND HIS CHARLIE MCCARTHY MOUTH PIECE IN DESERT COMBAT BOOTS SENOR ARE BACK

YIKES

WHAT UTTER BULLSHIT.

[havocmom]

13. If 1,200 militiamen did surrender (and it is a big IF) one might just

wonder about it being a sort of Trojan Horse ploy. How many people per prisoner does it take to hold captives? Then when/if they get out, they make claims, say, that they were tortured. Even if not true in their case, who would doubt them, given the fact that we have already been proved guilty of torture?

More Iraqis in captivity = more pissed off Iraqis OUT of captivity while US resources taxed by taking care of captives.

Whether they surrendered or not, it is a win-win for the Iraqis.

[JNelson6563]

16. Expect more of this fiction

as conditions worsen. The economy is tanking to the point only the most slavish of media whores tries to paint a sunny picture anymore and Iraq is spiraling out of control. Time to switch to pure ficiton mode, the facts are too ugly to even include slivers of. Ugh.

Julie

[daleo]

19. They probably offered money for a pretend amnesty

A bunch of people showed up, took the cash, then signed a paper saying they won't help the resistance. This gets transmuted into thousands "surrendering". Just a hunch, but if there is anything to this story it will probably be along these lines.

[REVOLT823]

21. I am totally not buying this story,

For starters, if we pulled off taking 1200 prisoners of Sadr's army, I think we would see some film of them being marched away. Secondly, I find it very hard to believe we zapped 300 guys in guerilla style, urban fighting in one day. These guys are not running around in formations of any size, they are free-lancing it in small groups. That large of a body count I could see in normal battle where you have large formations out in the desert, they get trapped, their dead. But not the kind of fighting we are seeing now, this is all hit and run stuff, doesn't make sense.

[drdtroit]

22. This is utter nonsense!

The story is dated 8/6/2004 at 3:38pm. And yet at 1:40am. 8/7/2004 there is not any trace of this story on any news service out of the Mideast or elsewhere.

This is a pure propaganda piece and it is really getting pitiful. The Rove-niks keep perpetuating their Goebbels-esque lies over and over again without accepting one iota of responsibility for numerous errors and blunders. But unlike a certain geographic location in 1938, we are armed with the INTERNET and the TRUTH.

Just lying about progress in Iraq is not going to make it so..

[Aidoneus]

23. I have a friend who lives in Annajaf..

she tells me this is absolute bullshit. The city is still free, with Jaysh-i al-Mahdi members everywhere--same story all over the south. Just like before, the police either with the mahdi or steer clear of them.

The massacre yesterday has everybody in arms--though there is a great lie being told about the casualties. Oonly about 3 dozen Mahdi Army members are reported dead from the combined fighting in Madinat as-Sadr, Annajaf, Karbala`, `Amara, An-Nasiriyah, al-Hillah, and al-Basrah. US occupyer claims of 300 dead in Annajaf means that it is mostly civilians that the occupyers have murdered in just a short period of time, like Fallujah all over once again.

At least a dozen US occupation forces were injured or killed in Sadr City, though it may be twice that. The city-unto-itself has been the most independent Sadrist stronghold for many years, neither the Baathists or crusaders have been able to penetrate it much less control it even now. British and Italian forces in Nasiriyah and Basrah have taken unknown casualties and many armoured vehicles are reported damaged or destroyed.

Hope is on the way, indeed.

[demoman123]

25. Good post. n/t

[number6]

35. Good post

..

[burrowowl]

26. I am frigging amazed!

1,200 criminals surrended when they know they are going to get the MAX!?!?!?
Wow!
Seems like body counts a la Vietnam are making a comeback too.
I think I'm getting to feel very old, like when fashions and propaganda repeat.

[Tight_rope]

28. uummmmm...This don't sound right...Why now huh...I say Bushit!

[Momma Mia]

32. ...

Wow!

I didn't believe this garbage either!!!

So decided to "google" it for myself.

Did so, and now do not know what the dickens to believe!:crazy:

This is what I found at:

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_933262,0005.htm

Sorry, don't have a clue how to link, please someone do it for me. Thanks!

~ One rather non-techy Momma!

[Momma Mia]

33. ...

Hey! hey!

It linked automatically for me! Thank you Skinner! :D

Have just compared the two articles, and they are almost identical, with the exception of a few words here and there.

The original posting was from "Bagdad (AFP)" whatever that is, and the one I googled came from "Press Trust of India"

[Momma Mia]

34. Forgot to add this ...

Message was printed from http://www.HindustanTimes.com

[number6]

36. welcome to DU

:hi:

[Ernesto]

37. Think about it folks

Aljazera (splg?) is shut down & the next day this fantastic story is floated.