NYT: It's Not Just the Jobs Lost, but the Pay in the New Ones

[DeepModem Mom]

It's Not Just the Jobs Lost, but the Pay in the New Ones
By EDMUND L. ANDREWS

Published: August 9, 2004


WASHINGTON, Aug. 8 - The stunningly slow pace of job creation, which sank to growth of just 32,000 in July, has provided new ammunition in an intense political debate over job quality.

For months, Democrats have said that the long-delayed employment recovery was concentrated in low-wage jobs that paid far less than those that were lost. White House officials replied that the available data failed to settle the matter one way or the other.

The data is still inconclusive. But the weakness in job creation and the apparent weakness in high-paying jobs may be opposite sides of a coin. Companies still seem cautious, relying on temporary workers and anxious about rising health care costs associated with full-time workers. Many economists say that over the long term, the most vulnerable positions are those at the low end of the wage scale that require fewer skills and are easily replicated....

***

In contrast to previous recoveries, when companies rehired a large proportion of laid-off workers, manufacturers have added only 91,000 jobs this year, having eliminated more than two million jobs in the previous three years.

The largely permanent decline in manufacturing employment, which has been more acute after this recession than in previous ones, spans all levels from blue-collar workers through senior management. It has coincided with a bulge in the number of jobs in low-paying fields that are comparatively easy to enter: retail sales, hotel services and clerical work....


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/09/business/09jobs.html

[dbt]

1. Jesus Harold CHRIST!

Why is this just now becoming news? Oh, yeah: "the available data failed to settle the matter one way or the other." Now, who could have been responsible for compiling that data between then and now? Could it be-----SATAN? (Close. It was the bu$h government, which has lied about every damn thing else.)

My GOD, what if this shit had occurred under that eeeeeeeeeeeeevil Bill Clinton? Do you think the New York Times would have WAITED for the data?

:argh:
dbt

[DeepModem Mom]

2. "growing number of analysts say evidence increasingly suggests" --

"But a growing number of analysts say the evidence increasingly suggests that the current recovery has indeed been tilted toward lower-paying jobs. Industries ranked in the bottom fifth for wages and salaries have added 477,000 jobs since January, while industries in the top fifth for wages had no increase at all, according to an analysis of Labor Department payroll data by Economy.com, an economic research firm.

'Since employment peaked, we've lost many more higher-paying jobs than lower-paying jobs,' said Mark Zandi, chief economist at Economy.com. 'In recovery, we've created more lower-paying jobs than higher-paying jobs.'"

[Luna_Chick]

12. Well DUH

Gimme a break..inconclusive data?? Maybe we all need to submit our Want Ads from our respective cities to show them what we've known all along.

[DeepModem Mom]

29. Welcome to DU, Luna_Chick!

[Luna_Chick]

38. Thank ya, DeepModem Mom

Thank ya verra much:hi:

[The Zanti Regent]

7. The SCREW YORK TIMES does not care one bit...

...until it happens to them and thier rancid piece of shit newspaper is outsourced to India!

F the Screw York Times!

[Chelsea Patriot]

27. FUCK THE SCREW YORK TIMES!!!!!!

And their Tina Addicted, traitorous, deformed staff of "Journalists"!

[teryang]

3. Well this is real "scoop" from the New York Times

dee..deet...di...deet..deet...deet...This just in folks...world isn't flat.

[schultzee]

4. Suprise? Just what cheap labor conservatives want. Outsource what

they can and pay less, and keep the lowest in the USA. Also insource from Mexico and zap the poor whites and Blacks who have to take the jobs with low skills. They get to harm everyone but themselves. Greed Pigs is what we need to call them because that is what they are.

[Wright Patman]

5. This is why the walls

in their 'gated communities' are going to have to go higher and higher. The peasants with pitchforks will soon be at the gate.

[meow2u3]

11. Then, pit poor whites against poor blacks

by the culture war scam the cheap labor conservatives have been using for decades.

[LizW]

6. Here is the root of Bush's continued support

I you wonder why the bottom hasn't fallen out for Bush's approval rating, and why there are still people who support him in spite of the horrors of Iraq and the crushing debt being accumulated for our children to pay off, there it is.

We look at this article and see bad news, horrible news. Business owners and managers look at it, pump their fists and say, "Yes!"

This is what the business community wants, and it is why they want Bush in office.

Cheap labor is what they want. High unemployment is what they want.

The trick is that the administration has to cook the numbers so that the public doesn't become so fearful that they stop spending.

"We're turning the corner! Spend, spend, spend! Shop, shop, shop! And vote for us!"

[Tansy_Gold]

13. And here is one of his supporters --

As published in Sunday's Arizona Republic

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/viewpoints/articles/0808shadegg0808.html

Economic cloud is gone - happy days here again


John Shadegg <Shadegg is repuke congresscritter from affluent area of Phoenix metro, running UNOPPOSED for re-election>

Aug. 8, 2004 12:00 AM


Contrary to what you may have heard, and what some want you to believe, the economy is strong and growing and, in some categories, setting new records. <and what categories might those be, John?>

An average of more than 300,000 new jobs were created each month between March and May. Since August 2003, the economy has added 1.5 million jobs. Unemployment claims have dropped by 30 percent in the past year. < Wow! Three months of growth, out of how many months, John? >

The current unemployment rate is lower than the average in the 1970s, 1980s or 1990s. This year, the economy grew at an average rate of 3.8 percent in the first two quarters, and it is expected to grow 4.6 percent for the entire year - the best economic performance in 20 years. Industrial production is at an all-time high. < And most of those industries would be related to what, defense? WAR? Does that mean we are gonna have to stay at WAR to keep the economy going? >

Economic conditions are better today than at the same point in President Clinton's first term. Inflation and unemployment are both lower, and the economy has grown faster.

<end snip>

There's more of this shit than I can stomach to post this early in the morning.


Tansy Gold, who is one of the many unemployed who are not eligible for unemployment benefits and therefore never shows up in the official data.

[Scairp]

17. Sisters we are.....

"Tansy Gold, who is one of the many unemployed who are not eligible for unemployment benefits and therefore never shows up in the official data".

Me too dear. I wonder how many more of us are out there? I bet at least enough to make the unemployment rate go up another 1-2% if ALL of the unemployed and looking for a job were counted.

[Tansy_Gold]

21. Just an estimate, based on nothing more scientific than. . ..

. .... gut feeling.

I suspect the true unemployment rate is double the official figure.

I'm including --

1. Those who have lost a job and are now self-employed consultants in the same business. They don't have a regular paycheck coming in and are dependent upon prompt payment from their clients. If a client goes under or writes a bad check, too bad.

2. Those who are getting by on temporary work that pays less than full-time work at the same job, has no benefits, and generally keeps the worker from getting unemployment benefits "between assignments."

3. Those who have completely dropped out of the market and are relying on family, spouses, partners for sustenance. About two years ago, I knew at least two individuals like this who had managed to get SS disability payments while going to college to "retrain" for better jobs. Neither of these individuals has found work.

4. Those who are working more than one job to make up for the loss of income from one decent job. This affects the job reporting numbers because the creation of two jobs only equates to one livable income. As the statistics report "477,000 new jobs created in the past three months," the equivalent is only half that. This means that for every person working two of these jobs, one other uncounted person is unemployed and earning nothing.

5. Those who entered the job market and were unable to find any kind of work and therefore don't show up on the reports. The economy has to create something like 150,000 to 200,000 new jobs per month just to make room for the new workers entering the market. Since they're never available for unemployment and are never listed in the lay-off figures, they just don't count.

6. The seasonal workers -- whether it's the tourist industry in the appropriate season or holiday temporaries or construction workers during a boom -- who slip off the radar screen in "seasonally adjusted" figures. Those figures wouldn't need to be adjusted if they showed a better picture than they do.

There are so many figures that we never see: How many are working but not eligible for unemployment if they lose their jobs. How many are unemployed and ineligible. How many have exhausted their benefits. How many are over-employed but under-paid (working two jobs). How many are under-employed, either working part-time or working full-time and not making a living income.

I'd like to see someone do a solid investigative article on the true picture of the unemployed and underemployed, giving us some real data to work with.

[Lorien]

25. Count me in your first catagory

My income as a contractor for a major corporation has gone down nearly $100,000 since 2000 (mostly due to offshoring). The new clients I've been picking up pay far less than my old ones because they know so many of my fellow artists are out of work. The situation truly sucks, but not as badly as those of many of my friends, most of whom are in their late thirties through early fifties and have been out of work for over a year. Ageism becomes a problem for these people, on top of the weak market.:-(

[DeepModem Mom]

33. That's an EXCELLENT post, Tansy_Gold! The job picture...

can no longer be evaluated in the old ways, using the old measures and markers, it seems to me. You've put your finger on peoples' real-life work situations. If one of your categories doesn't describe ourselves, one or more of them describes plenty of people we know. And you're right, it would be interesting to see a serious, comprehensive study of working in America as it truly is today.

[area51]

36. "true unemployment rate"

Tansy_Gold said:

"I suspect the true unemployment rate is double the official figure."

I'm sure you're right. I've been saying the same thing privately. This is not like a recession we've had before; I think it may be as difficult to get a job as it was in the 1st Great Depression.

[primavera]

22. Don't forget us brothers in Operation Weekday Liberty

Since I no longer qualify for unemployment benefit, I too am evidently no longer unemployed in the eyes of the official statistics. I keep expecting them to eliminate unemployment benefits altogether, then no one would be unemployed ever again! It'd be a miracle: zero unemployment achieved overnight!

[Tansy_Gold]

30. Miracles never cease!

Good chuckle on a sad topic, KevinJ.

This whole unemployment thing is just another example of how problems that actually affect real people are made to be invisible. "Jobs" are for "employable" people, and if you're out of work longer than the allowable benefit period, you must not be "employable" and therefore you're not eligible for a "job."

It's just like the old adage: When you've got a job, everyone offers you one, but when you don't have one, nobody wants to hire you.

[nodictators]

19. It was reported a few days ago that sales in upscale department stores

...was strong. All the other retailers sales were weak. In fact, WalMart had only a 2% increase in same-store sales compared to last year. Adjust that for inflation, and they had a DROP in sales.

Retailers are now concerned about the back-to-school sales. They fear weakness there, the second largest season for sales after the Christmas season.

Some in the business community are beginning to realize that Bush is bad for business. Let's hope that it not too few, too late to matter.

[leesa]

8. The NYT still pretending we're in an economic recovery

[catmandu57]

9. Mead closing it's factory here in October

They make paper products, spiral notebooks etc.. The average wage is 14.25 an hour, there are'nt any jobs that pay that well left here. Mead is busting the union, and sending their factory to China, where the balance of trade will be further shifted.
Where those employees will go to work is anyones guess, though they are building an upscale shopping center due to open in time for Christmas.
I guess those people will be working in the stores instead of shopping in them, which leads me to the question, if they keep shutting down the good paying jobs, who is going to be able to shop there?

[Tansy_Gold]

14. Chinese counterfeiting

Did anyone see the segment on 60 Minutes about how the Chinese are ripping off the American companies that move there?

Goddess almighty, I laughed my ass off.

Calloway golf clubs ships production to China and then is pissed because people buy the cheap knock-offs and they BREAK and they want Calloway to replace them.

Well, fuckers, why didn't you keep your production here so that wouldn't happen? Oh, yeah, right. I forgot. YOU NEEDED CHEAP LABOR.

Now you've got what you paid for, and I won't shed one single tear for you.


Tansy Gold, on a rampage this morning

[catmandu57]

15. I didn't see that

but it's poetic justice isn't it?

[trogdor]

24. Well...

...nobody buys from China because of their committment to quality. Just wait until the first Chinese-made Chevy* comes out. $6,000 apiece and you get a new one every third year.

*That's a prediction from yours truly.

[DeepModem Mom]

18. Tansy_Gold, I hope for better days for you, and so many others --

nt

[Tansy_Gold]

32. Thanks, "Mom"!

I'm in a better position than a lot of folks: hubby has a steady job and halfway decent health insurance. Of course, that could come to an end tomorrow, too. . . . . . . .

Plus I have reasonable expectations of more work, albeit temporary, in the near future. At my age and temperament, I'm not sure I could survive a real, full-time job any more: I get so pissed off at the abject stupidity of the so-called management that I end up blowing off steam or calling someone the ignorant shit-head that they are. so for me, temp work is probably the best I can aspire to at this point!

But others aren't so fortunate, and our wonderful booshies have made so many things so much worse for working people that it isn't even funny any more.

[SharonAnn]

26. Yes, I saw that and thought the same thing. These companies

want to "have their cake and eat it too".

They want protection of all their patents and Intellectual Property, they want the U. S. to "crack down" on this kind of counterfitting, and they want all the production jobs to be in countries like China where labor is cheap and laws don't matter much.

Well, boo-hoo!

They're getting what they're paying for: cheap labor in countries with laws that don't protect worker's rights (or companies' rights).

Ha-ha!

[gulliver]

10. But for Bush the recovery might have been a good one.

Tax cuts for the wealthy. Urging consumption after 9/11 instead of production and savings. An orgy of corporate piggishness, sending headquarters offshore and jobs overseas. What a leader he is.

Now we have a huge trade deficit. Jobs are being created at record levels in China and India. They are now competing with us for oil too.

[indepat]

16. Taken holistically W's domestic policies are so seriously damaging the

machine that drives this economy, the middle class, his time in office will likely seem to have been the good old days for: The groundwork for a long-term shrinking economy has been laid as will almost surely be reflected in the stock markets for many years to come, barring some miracle and we might just be out of fresh miracles.

[primavera]

20. According to Greenspan, it's our fault

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A4121-2004Jul21.html?nav=rss_politics">Greenspan Says Workers Lack of Skills Lowers Wages

By Nell Henderson
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, July 22, 2004; Page A01

Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, disputing election-year assertions that the U.S. economy is producing lower-quality jobs than it has in the past, said yesterday that continuing wage sluggishness reflects the fact that many workers are ill-prepared to take advantage of the opportunities that the economy offers.

Growing U.S. income inequality largely reflects differences in workers' education and job skills, not an underlying problem with the economy, Greenspan said during a House Financial Services Committee hearing, echoing many of the remarks he made before a Senate committee the day before.

So you see, it's really all our fault that we just aren't taking advantage of all of the great sweatshop labor positions that the Repuke economy is generating.

[Tansy_Gold]

31. Greenspan is an ignorant aristocratic

asshole.

[kayell]

37. It's all the fault of those tech people who can't learn proper burger

flipping procedures.

[young_at_heart]

23. Conservatives vote against their own economic interests

The Republican party has convinced middle America that they are the party of decency and goodness and they are able to make that more important to people than holding on to a good job. The party faithful are clueless about how badly they have been conned by these cutthroats!

[TahitiNut]

28. "Work (or vote) for me and I'll take care of you."

This is the siren song of authoritarianism. Far too many Americans have not matured - and continue to have some Disney-esque nostalgia for that symbolic escape from personal responsibility: childhood. The archetype of the loving and nurturing parent from whom all goodness flows is alive and well in the mythical mind of America. We seek the paternal employer. We seek the parental politician. We presume paternalism even in our "Gods."

The flip-side of this specious bargain? Obedience. Slavery.

This is the road to totalitarianism. This is the "bargain" of monarchies - autocrats/monarchs which were essential to creation of the institution of slavery. (Without autocrats, there'd have been no slavery.)

[young_at_heart]

34. How many in today's world are really "cared" for?

I believe that the issue of "values" has been so thoroughly brainwashed into people that they pay little or no attention to their personal economic situation. Their sole focus is on the candidate/party that is church-going and represents "good" family values, etc. It's very sad to witness this!

[tXr]

35. The hell with 'values'...

I - and countless (since they have been unemployed so long they aren't counted) others - just need a friggin' J.O.B.!