Park Service Retirees Warn of Major Yellowstone Snowmobile Proposal

[quaoar]

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040818/dcw074_1.html

National Park Service Retirees Warn Major Yellowstone Snowmobile Proposal Coming Out This Week Will Ignore Science

Wednesday August 18, 5:30 pm ET
Administration Proposing to Weaken Park Protections in Order to Boost Snowmobile Numbers


WASHINGTON, Aug. 18 /PRNewswire/ -- The Bush Administration is about to release a proposal that would more than double snowmobile use in Yellowstone National Park over last winter's levels, ignoring the scientific findings of two recent environmental impact studies and weakening the Administration's own frequently-touted "strict limitations" on snowmobile use, according to the 300-member Coalition of Concerned National Park Service Retirees (CCNPSR).

CCNPSR has learned from internal sources that the Bush Administration will falsely claim this week that its plan to dramatically boost snowmobile numbers would have no significant environmental or public health impacts.

In truth, the expected action by the National Park Service would require weakening of standards designed to protect park resources and contradict more than a decade of scientific analysis including the conclusion of the Bush Administration's own two-year Supplemental Environmental Impact Study completed just last year. The Administration's two-year study confirmed earlier scientific studies that found that continued snowmobile use would cause significantly more risk and harm to human health and park resources. The study determined that replacing snowmobile use in Yellowstone with visitor access on snowcoaches, "yields the lowest levels of impacts to air quality, water quality, natural soundscapes, and wildlife" while attaining "the widest range of beneficial uses of the environment without degradation and risk of health or safety."

Michael Finley, a former superintendent of Yellowstone, Yosemite, and Everglades National Parks, said: "If the Administration goes through with this, it will mark a new low in its pattern of ignoring science to benefit a special interest at the public's expense. Boxed in by its own first study, the Administration is now using a superficial process to sweep under the rug what 10 years of science have demonstrated conclusively is best for our nation's first national park and the health and safety of its visitors."

[VolcanoJen]

1. You go, Bush/Rove!!! That Snowmobile Vote must be HUGE.

Fercryinoutloud!!! Give it up!! Nobody in the National Parks System wants to hear your loud, obnoxious snowmachines interrupt the peaceful tranquility of the parks. Give UP!!

Please, feel the freedom of riding your precious vehicles elsewhere, but leave the parks alone. It's over.... you lost... forget about it.

And, isn't it telling that Bush is grasping for the Snowmobiler Vote? Dear God, is he really that desperate? What portion of the general population does The Much-Coveted Snowmobile Enthusiast Vote represent, exactly? And in clearly-red states, no less?

Arrggghhh!! Snowmobiling is fun at times, but these whacked-out snowmobilers and their insistence on noisily parading through the National Parks pisses me off to no end. They DON'T OWN THE PARKS, and they don't have an inalienable right to blast through the serenity, no matter how much fun they think it is.

:mad: :grr: :mad:

[KansDem]

2. Although Bush is siding with the Snowmobilers,...

I believe he's in general playing to the lovers-of-loud-machines-trampling-all-over-the-environment crowd. After all, who are WE to suggest that someone with the time and money shouldn't be able to scar the pristine wilderness with some loud, CO-belching machine?

After all, the national parks were created for ALL of us. (/sarcasm)

[VolcanoJen]

3. KansDem, my sarcasm *exactly.*

And thanks for that... :-)

[HuckleB]

7. Yeah. ALL of us, indeed.

As long as noise is OK with you. We used to make the trek to Yellowstone for some Nordic adventures every winter. We went again three years ago, and couldn't believe how much the place had changed in our three year absence. The noise was bloody everywhere. This massive use of snowmobiles in Yellowstone is a new phenomenon, and it needs to be a temporary one.

[homegrownLeaf]

13. Snowmobiles have been used on the closed roads for 40 years

Now only the cleanand quiet machines are allowed. This is a non-problem.

[HuckleB]

65. Not in the numbers they are there today. Not even close.

And those so-called clean and quiet machines aren't so much of either.

The science has shown this to be a big problem. Bush doesn't give a rip about science. Why don't you?

[hansolsen]

11. Easy does it, DUers; snowmobilers ** are ** a big block of votes,

especially in certain swing states including Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Upper Michigan.

Here in Minnesota half the adult population participates in hunting, fishing, snowmobiling, etc. We love our ATVs as well as our cross country skiis and dog sleds. Snowmobiles are a tool as well as a toy.

Urban Dems of the Latte wing of the Party tend to be oblivious to how many votes are lost over issues like this -- in fact, it is huge. For example, here in Minn, about 40% of all union members are regularly voting Republican in some elections, and environmental "extremism" is one of the primary reasons. Where I live, you couldn't get elected dog catcher on an anti-snowmobile ticket.

Dems need to keep in mind that grand environmental policy, setting aside great wilderness areas for long term preservation, will not be sustained unless we can elect Dems to Congress, and lots of petty little environmental rules may not be worth the candle in the long run.

Now, I'm against snowmobiles in Yellowstone, myself, but I am careful to be respectful of folks who want to ride their machines there, and there may well be some compromises that are worth considering. And I certainly wouldn't want to lose this election and see four more years of George Bush, in a battle over exactly how many snomobiles can enter Yellowstone. That is not a battle to die over. Not this year.

[homegrownLeaf]

14. Good luck selling it to the anti-snowmobile bigots

Most antis don't know the facts about snowmobiles in yellowstone and only believe the panic fliers sent out by groups looking for donations to try and ban them on all public land. The truth does not seem to matter to those that hate snowmobilers.

[alcuno]

19. "anti-snowmobile bigots?"

Try anti-national parks snowmobile bigots. Go snowmobile on your own land.

[homegrownLeaf]

24. Park roads ARE my land too

Sleds on the roads in Winter does less harm than the Summer traffic.

Please try to be realistic and honest.

[alcuno]

67. Look, the truth is that I trust NOTHING that this administration wants.

That's how much faith I have in my government's interest in protecting the environment or just about anything else. Therefore, if you can get someone trustworthy to propose these changes, I'll consider it.

[HuckleB]

74. That doesn't give you the right to harm the park that's there for all...

Your statement is false, by the way. So, yeah, please try to be realistic and honest. That would be nice to see.

[hansolsen]

Yea, I wish they would lighten up a little. They make it sound like we

were opening Yellowstone up for condominiums and golf courses.

[RummyTheDummy]

46. Don't worry

Baby steps. In due time my friend...in due time.

[leesa]

56. How did you become so selfish?

"anti-snowmobile bigots"?? Grow Up.

[Voltaire99]

40. LOL! Is that you, Sen. Coleman?

Urban Dems of the Latte wing of the Party tend to be oblivious to how many votes are lost over issues like this

Suburban Dems of the Wonder Bread wing tend to be oblivious to how much they sound like Republicans.

It may surprise you to learn this, my friend, but not all votes are worth pandering after. Sometimes, even issues are important, too. Such as? Such as not sacrificing the environment merely so idiots can drive polluting machines up and down trails.

Oh, did that scare some potential voter somewhere? Good! Boo!

[hansolsen]

43. One doesn't need to be a Repub to oppose certain environmental regs

Not all regs are created equal. In fact, there are two kinds of environmentalists, IMO. Macro and micro.

Macro environmentalists are guys like teddy Roosevelt who set aside great national parks and then rode around shooting one of every game animal in the park. Another was Edward Abbey, who went to meetings to discuss blowing up Glen Canyon Damn, driving in his old pickup truck, throwing beer cans out the open window.

Voters love macro environmentalists, and so do I -- these are the guys with a grand vision, and a telescope in hand. We need more of these people on our side.

Then there are the micro environmentalists. These are the green eye shade crew, the ones with the microscopes, and the rule books, and the petty, annoying regulations that piss off voters in droves. We need less of these guys on our side. We are losing literally millions of votes we don't need to lose by running environmental policy just like George Bush runs foreign policy -- treating the opposition like "evil doers".

Sure, some rules and regs really are a necessary evil. But make no mistake, while they may be necessary, they're still evil. At a bare minimu, we need to wipe the self satisfied smiles off our faces when we propose some of this stuff.

Just to clarify, we are fighting a long running battle here in Minnesota to keep snowmobiles out of the BWCA Wilderness on the Canadian border, and I support that restriction. So far, so good.

But I try to see the other side of this arguement, and take care to be "sensitive" to the fact that this issue is at the margin of environmental importance and there may be some room for compromise.

[homegrownLeaf]

49. Finally a reasonable minded Democrat speaks up

Thank you. Too many kneejerkers on the snowmobile issue just don't get it. There are over 10 million snowmobilers and every one I know is pissed at the lies and attacks on their sport by so-called big tent Dems.

[hansolsen]

55. Yup, and it is killing us at the polls. We are needlessly, & carelessly

managing this issue with all the tact of a Rumsfeld, and all the competence of a Rice. We are long on theory and short on facts in the snowmobile debate, and almost religious in our unbending furvor on the subject. And when we have the political power, we use it unilaterally on environmental issues, just as Bush does on defense issues.

To quote a certain Senator, "We can do better than this".

[leesa]

57. You are completely, needlessly fouling the air with your selfish "sport"

You scare wild game for your selfish little jollies. Like a bunch of spoiled rotten children that never grow up.

[hansolsen]

44. By the way, just for the record, I am a rural Dem of the hearty bread with

thick crust wing of the Dem Party, and if I sound like a Republican on this issue it may be because the Dem Party has set a pretty small tent over its environmental operation.

I spend a lot of time in the outdoors and will take a second seat to no one, in my determination to protect the environment. But we do live in a democratic republic, and our neighbors also have a say in what goes on, so I find it useful to pick my battles, and keep a weather eye on the long term good, when the short term payback is of marginal value in the grand scheme of things.

I happen to believe that, to some extent, we have lost our bearings with too much emphasis on Spotted Owls, Creek Darters, and Slimy Newts, and not enough emphasis on big picture thinking.

My personal favorite cause, at the moment, is to launch a friendly takeover of Canada, move the American border a hundred miles north, picking up 90% of the Canadians as new citizens, and declaring everything north of the new border as the biggest damn national park you ever saw. And I would let snowmobiles in it, maybe only snowmobiles, ATVs, sled dogs, and sea planes -- no cars.

Do you get my drift?

[homegrownLeaf]

48. You mislead the issue by saying they ride on trails in Yellowstone

They are used on the road only...same as the cars. Why tell untruths?

[homegrownLeaf]

12. I don't think you understand the whole Yellowstone winter travel facts

Take a look at these unbiased, non-partisan and honest reports on snowmobiles that travel only on the same roads as trucks, cars, motorcycles and busses...

http://www.saveyellowstonepark.org/
And, here I am, an environmentalist (and a Democrat!) hailing from
that "other country," New York, in agreement with Mr. Seely, the
snowmobile entrepreneur.

I am not the only New Yorker of this persuasion. A columnist for the
New York Times wrote: "The central problem with the environmentalists
position is that banning snowmobiles would deny almost everyone the
opportunity to enjoy Yellowstone in winter -- and that can't be
green." I place the central problem elsewhere: fair play, social
justice, equity. When environmentalists act from the premise that our
cause trumps those values, we raise up a wrathful backlash that hurts
nothing so much as the resource itself.

The most telling sentence in Ekey's piece follows: "Let's face it. If
snowmobiling had never been allowed in Yellowstone and someone was
proposing it today, the idea wouldn't even get to first base." And
that is precisely the point. Snowmobiles were not only allowed, they
were encouraged for most of their 40-year history in the park, and the
gateway communities built a winter-use economy around them. The
gateway communities did not forge this path all on their lonesome. We
all gave them a hand over into the precipice.

After stumbling into and through this problem, we now want to arrive
at some ultimately pure remedy that wipes clean the previous 40 years?
Well, one of the many casualties of achieving that purity (a quality
that always teeters on the brink of sterility and zealotry) will be
minimum-wage workers. There are others.


And much more honest and positive FACTS here...

http://www.nps.gov/yell/press/03115.htm

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/valleynewsdispatch/sports/s_171966.html
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Field/7306/yellowstone/coaches.html

[kwolf68]

23. Good lord ---Absurd alert...absurd alert

Completely absurd. It pisses me off when those evil environmentalists are called out based on bogus bullshit. This sounds like “Wise Use” dogma

Here are the facts:

There were 6 public comment periods with over a half a million citizens chiming in suggesting Yellowstone ban the snowmobile in favor of snow coaches.

What you fail to admit is snowmobilers would STILL HAVE access to the groomed roads in the park, roughly 13,000 miles in Wyoming, Idaho and Montana…that are NOT AFFECTED BY the rule. A mere 180 miles of quiet land within the park boundaries is all that is restricted.

…
MORE

In its latest study, the Park Service has confirmed that newer snowmobiles, while indeed cleaner, remain so disproportionately polluting, noisy, and stressful to wildlife that allowing their continued use in Yellowstone would come with significantly greater impacts.

Management Policies are clear

“NPS managers must always seek ways to avoid, or to minimize to the greatest degree practicable, adverse impacts on park resources and values.”

There were extensive studies done and everyone except for the snowmobile interest groups concluded that we needed a new way of doing things in Yellowstone which meant quieter less polluting snow coaches.

AHH, but the Snowmobile industry sued.

However…

In the 1990s, the highest carbon monoxide levels measured in the United States were found at the West Yellowstone park entrance. Snowmobile pollution there became so severe in the mid-’90s that the National Park Service was forced to pump fresh air into ranger booths to protect the health of employees, a practice that continues to be necessary five years later. In a single weekend, snowmobiles pour out more pollution in Yellowstone than automobiles emit in the park in an entire year.

Yellowstone was not setup as a theme park. It was setup to protect some of the rich biodiversity that once existed in the lower 48.
That park isn’t just the snowmobilers park, it is also my park. There are countless, thousands, millions of acres of land snowmobilers can play on, WHY this place? WHY the 180 miles? Is the 13,000 miles not enough?

This is selfishness to the extreme. The facts are in, these things are dangerous to the Park Rangers who work there, destroy plant life and stress animal life. If we are going to protect an ecosystem in a pristine state, then lets protect it. Build a theme park for these snowmobilers somewhere else.

Here is one link of interest
http://www.greateryellowstone.org/news/news_archives/snowmobiles/snowmobiles_rod.html

I have much more including public comment records, legal representation and comments concerning the original purpose of our Park System. All of which show the Snowmobile argument devoid of factual analysis and grounded in selfishness and greed.

[homegrownLeaf]

25. half a million citizens chiming in

By your measure we should never allow Gays to marry since many more than half a million citizens are chiming into deny it. I though I was in the company of logical liberals here. Your rant and hate against an activity you choose to dislike is bigoted and based on emotion only.

[kwolf68]

28. Based on emotion...LMAO, what a joke comeback

What a joke that is.

I pointed out public comments and then you bring up gay marriage. Gay Marriage is none of my damn business. That is between two consenting people. The Park I support with my tax dollars isn't. How you can make this analogy? And YOU BLAME me for emotion? You are careless with your arguments if you are hoping to use that.

I gave evidence of how our nation thinks based on public comment, the pollution inherent in the park, the fact the rule would still allow 13,000 miles to be accessed by snowmobiles, etc...

I produced links, facts, and I know the issue. I can snow you pictures of Park Rangers wearing gask masks.

I don't care about the freaking snowmobiles...I happen to think they don't belong in Yellowstone or in a very limited manner.

--to borrow your inane quote- Your rant and hate against a group of people (environmentalists) you choose to dislike is bigoted and based on emotion only.

[AZCat]

30. Why do you hate America?

Oh wait- I'm sorry, I was channeling a freeper there...

[kwolf68]

33. LMAO

I love America including the part we should leave alone.

[homegrownLeaf]

34. Your "facts" are outdated

None of them apply to the new four-stroke snowmobiles. Nice try.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[0007]

52. What the fuck does gay marriage have to do with snowmobiling?

[Tight_rope]

51. Yeah...needs to make up for lost votes in Texas....Not much snow here...

[havocmom]

4. Before snowmobile season begins can someone tell me

where to get my tag? I heard some of those 'quieter' machines last year and 'quieter' is a relative term. If they are gonna whiz around making all the racket and burning all those dead dinosaurs, I want to bag me one and make a rug for in front of the fireplace :evilgrin:

OK, flame me, motor pool. I haven't used the ignore feature in a long time {double :evilgrin: :evilgrin: evil grin}

[homegrownLeaf]

15. You didn't hear any of the newfour stroke sleds

They are as quiet as any car that travels the same roads in Yellowstone.

[havocmom]

59. Who appointed you as interperter of what I heard? Didn't see you near me.

Several of the brand new four stroke sleds and yes, they made a terrible racket each time one passed me. You do not get to decide what I heard. Sleds owned by my neighbors who were quite proud of their new four stroke sleds. It's a really small town and I would have noticed if you were anywhere within earshot.

[HuckleB]

66. Apparently you haven't heard them either.

They're not that quiet. And they're not clean, which is even worse.

[Gold Metal Flake]

5. Motorsports OUT of Yellowstone.

The gearhead sez there's a place for toys. Yellowstone is not that place.

[homegrownLeaf]

16. They onlyuse the same roads as the cars use so why not?

The Harleys on the same roads are MUCH louder than ANYof the new four-stroke sleds. Please check the facts.

[alcuno]

21. Get the cars and Harleys out too.

[homegrownLeaf]

22. How do you expect to visit Yellowstone then?

Do you know what the Roosevelt Arch at Yellowstone's North Entrance says when entering Yellowstone?

It says...

In 1872, President Ulysses S. Grant signed a law declaring that Yellowstone would forever be "dedicated and set apart as a public park or pleasuring ground for the benefit and enjoyment of the people."

www.nationalparks.com/yellowstone_national_park.htm

You can walk for months to see it if you wish but I'm driving. I only get two week vacation per year.

[kwolf68]

42. And

Teddy Roosevelt said this

In dedicating the gateway to Yellowstone in 1903, President Roosevelt said that the "essential feature" of the National Parks was their "essential democracy" in that the parks preserved wilderness and scenery " for the people as a whole."

Teddy Roosevelt, for all his dreams of imperialism, was the father of the Conservation movement and he has eloquently outlined the MISSION of our national Park system.

I respect that, that is the goals of our NPS and it is what the American people vote for when they choose to conserve.

[alcuno]

70. I've been to Yellowstone twice in my life - 25 years ago and 10 years ago.

I couldn't believe the difference. Face facts. We've trashed the place.

[havocmom]

60. Sadly, not all sledders stay on the roads in Yellowstone

Every year, Montana papers run pictures of snowmobiles in Yellowstone running off road. That is part of the problem. They don't all follow the rules and some chase game already stressed from winter. Makes life a bit rougher than it needs to be, injures young trees buried in the snow and raises blood pressure of hikers and skiers who are not making noise, pollution or using fuel while spoiling the park experience for others.

If ya wanna roar around with an engine, there are other places to do it. And I do understand the need for snowmobiles in many areas. I live in Montana where some communities are only accessible by foot or snowmobile in winter. But they are not required in Yellowstone!

[HuckleB]

68. Unfortunately, it's a lot more than a few bad apples who go off road.

Snowmobiles are everywhere, as anyone who goes backcountry by legal means can attest.

[tlcandie]

76. So, maybe the winter time was when the REAL park residents

could enjoy their home and now we are even taking that from them? LIMIT ALL visits I say!

In fact, I wouldn't have a problem with the fact that if you REALLY want to see the parks then you can do it in a park coach or something with limited permits or whatever without vehicles! Go in on foot or in park coaches or nothing.

Extreme? You bet! More humans look upon nature and other species as below them and of no value and if someone doesn't stop this WAR against the earth and our environment there will be nothing left for sustainable living very soon.

Hell, just look at oil if you want to see how we treat resources and our environment! Look at the reefs!

PEACE I say to our environment and to ALL living beings not war!

[A_Possum]

6. Cheney just wants to ride one so he doesn't have to ever get off his a**

He's also pushing "section-line" hunting in Wyoming, in which you can just drive down a section line road in your pickup and shoot over the fences onto private property, which is illegal now.

[northstar]

17. Seriously? He wants that to be legal?

Do you have a link for that? Cause that would be totally NUTS!!! :crazy:

[TX-RAT]

71. "section-line"

Please provide a link for that one.
That sure don't sound right to me.

[bluestateguy]

8. Yellowstone National Playground

What a bunch of selfish suburbanites with no respect for the land or the creatures who inhabit it.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

9. Maybe a volcano will blow

and melt all the snow.

[noonwitch]

63. Or the Grizzlies will get sick of the noise and take care of

the snowmobilers themselves. Hey, it's the circle of life, right?

[GoddessOfGuinness]

64. Smorgasbord!

:evilgrin:

But seriously...Don't they hibernate?

[Bread and Circus]

10. Whatever happened to "take only pictures, leave only footprints" ???

I've spent a lot of time in National Parks and Snowmobiles don't belong there.

[homegrownLeaf]

18. Do you drive your car on the park roads?

Then why not allow a clean and quiet snowmobile on the closed roads inthe winter? Can you walk or ski the 80 mile round trip to old faithful in the Winter? I didn't think so...

[kwolf68]

26. In a single weekend, snowmobiles pour out more pollution in Yellowstone th

In a single weekend, snowmobiles pour out more pollution in Yellowstone than automobiles emit in the park in an entire year.

As far as going there in the Winter, maybe that period of time is stressful enough for the wildlife without adding the freaking insane machines to the mix.

[homegrownLeaf]

29. That is an outright misfact

That data was based on a 1968 lawnboy lawnmower. Only clean and quiet four stroke sleds will be allowed. Your claim is no longer true.

As for wildlife, hikers and snowcoaches stress the animals more.

[Bridget Burke]

27. Then what about the warning that started this thread?

Do you think the opinions of the park service veterans are completely worthless?

Please, tell us more about the "clean and quiet" snowmobiles.

[homegrownLeaf]

31. Times and machines have changes

Google clean +quiet +four-stroke +snowmobile for the new facts.

[kwolf68]

36. Yea sure

Here is a guy who is a Snowmobiler against these things in Yellowstone. He makes great points. Of course, he's probably a Liberal environmentalist so he's an idiot who only is emotional.


http://www.traditionalmountaineering.org/News_Yellowstone.htm

[kwolf68]

32. Forget it

It's all "junk science" Nothing wrong at all with blasting thru Yellowstone with your snowmobile.

Screw the plant and animal life, screw those idiot Park rangers...they can use gask masks anyway.

The same scientists who told us lead paint was OK, SMoking was OK, DDT was OK, absbestos was ok and global warming is no problem will provide documented proof that Yellowstone isn't just NOT harmed by Snowmobile use, but IT HELPS the park...

Yep, got that? It helps...All that pollution? What do you think the trees eat? Hell yea baby...Sign me up for one.

[homegrownLeaf]

35. You are ignoring the FACT that the new sleds don't do the harm you claim

Remember the future.

[kwolf68]

38. Zzzz...selfishness is a good thing...i like it a lot

Those new snowmobiles STILL produce incredible noise pollution and they STILL kill plant life...and they STILL stress wildlife.

And I have an associate who works out that way and she told me that the Buffalo for some reason follow the trampled snow of the snowmobiles in search of available grass ... they walk right out of the park which only means one thing. I don't quite understand that, but seeing that she has a Phd. I do respect her opinion.

Snowmobiling is big business and nothing will stand in the way of big business and there are willing and selfish minions who could give a rats ass about the protected parks. Hell, maybe we should just sell it off to some big corporation to turn Yellowstone into resort property and this argument would be over.

You already got 13,000 miles.

Did your environmental hero Chimp even have an EIS done?

[homegrownLeaf]

47. all your complaints can be used against snowcoaches too

snowcoaches were the enviro group approved means of travel in winter.

Snowmobiles are much cleaner and quieter than the coaches now.

[kwolf68]

39. I also notice

You just signed up today.

Welcome, but I find it strange this would be the topic that lulled you out from under your rock.

[Geo55]

20. LOL....screw it....use it.....it our "God given right" to

trample mother nature with machines...fits nicely with the
"Healthy Forests Act"

[DU GrovelBot]

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[jpgray]

45. Nature can and should be enjoyed without a noisy polluting machine

If the only way you can enjoy a National Park is by actively destroying some part of it, please go somewhere else. Those of us who enjoy the parks plan to share them with our children and grandchildren someday.

[homegrownLeaf]

50. I bet you drive into and around the parks

So unless you tiptoe with quiet socks and don't drive then please understand many of us choose to use clean and quiet snowmobiles where they do NO harm...likeon the ROADS of Yellowstone.

Try to use facts and less emotion when dealing with important issues.

[Bridget Burke]

53. "clean and quiet snowmobiles"

Is this a "meme" or is your recording stuck?

[homegrownLeaf]

54. It is the truth

The new 4-strokes are as quiet and clean as an average Japan motorcycle. And no, not a cycle that has had its exaust modified by someone who likes noise. We are talking factory exaust that is so quiet you can't hear it from 100 feet away. Check the facts.

[Viking12]

58. You mean these facts?

Leaked Administration Documents Show
Supposedly "Quiet" Snowmobiles Loud Enough
to Damage Hearing in Yellowstone

New Data Undercuts Case for Re-introduction
of Snowmobiles in Yellowstone National Park;
The Bush Administration Knew As Early As January
But Has Said Nothing Publicly.


WASHINGTON, D.C.///April 15, 2004///New models of four-stroke snowmobiles —touted as "quieter" by the Bush Administration and supposedly suitable for use in the winter stillness of Yellowstone National Park — are in fact nearly as noisy as the old two-stroke machines. The snowmobiles also are loud enough to damage hearing, according to internal Administration documents obtained, and released today, by the Coalition of Concerned National Park Service Retirees, a group of 230 retired employees and senior leaders of the National Park Service.

According to a January 27, 2004, Yellowstone staff meeting report (available at http://www.hastingsgroup.com/yellowstonestaff.pdf), Yellowstone officials tested noise from four-stroke snowmobiles that were certified as "best available technology" and approved for use in Yellowstone under the Interior Department's controversial policy. The minutes from the January meeting at Yellowstone show the park's safety officer informing other senior staff that based on the tests of four-stroke snowmobiles: "Four-stroke snowmobiles are almost as loud as two-stroke snowmobiles for the operator."

The four-stroke snowmobile test results, finalized in a so-far-unreleased March study conducted for the National Park Service, show that 18 out of 20 snowmobile tests generated peak noise levels in excess of 100 decibels, far over Yellowstone's new snowmobile noise standard, which promised to reduce snowmobile noise "at full throttle to no more than 73 decibels."

The recorded sound level for 18 of the 20 snowmobiles is louder than a pneumatic drill and many times noisier than outboard motors or busy traffic. The key data chart from the unreleased March report is available at http://www.hastingsgroup.com/marchchart.pdf. The March report revealed average noise levels experienced by snowmobile riders over several hours. Some averages approached unsafe levels. Maximum noise levels were clearly unsafe and triggered a warning to park workers.

http://www.ems.org/rls/2004/04/15/leaked_administr.html

[HuckleB]

69. Clearly he or she didn't think that folks at DU knew about such things.

Thanks for posting.

Cheers!

[homegrownLeaf]

78. "almost as loud as two-stroke snowmobiles for the operator"

This whole biased and agenda based report is based on the sound as it exists "for the operator" ONLY. It is really that hard to present honest and pertinent facts? Unless you and your anti-snowmobiler sock puppets plan to be driving the snowmobile (which I doubt you are) this noise report based ON THE OPERATOR sound levels your unsound report is a moot point.

[Surf Cowboy]

61. It's just a matter of time before one

of the Eco-Nut groups (I'm talking about the ELO and their ilk) starts stringing up clotheslines in Yellowstone, to catch the snowmobilers as they pass.

Pretty ugly stuff--decapitations and whatnot.

But bet your ass, sooner or later, one of them's going to do it.

[Viking12]

62. The Electric Light Orchestra is an Eco-Nut Group? eom

[TahitiNut]

73. You mean ELF? (Hayduke Rulez!!)

I think it's strange that the worshipers of 'property "rights"' have absolutely no respect for those 'rights' when the property is owned in common. It's the same ol' "Me First!" crowd who think the rightful role of the many is to enrich the few. They've been around as toadies to autocrats for millennia.

[TX-RAT]

75. About 25 yrs ago

We had a man stretch bard wire across a trail to stop motorcycles, he did it, killed a 10 year old boy. He got 10 yrs for that one.

[tlcandie]

72. All these remarks remind me of the same jet skier and boat arguments

that are ruining the manatee habit in Florida.

It's pretty simple, IMO. If you as a person could stand to live 24/7 with all the noise and action of snowmobiles, jet skis, boats, etc., and all their pollution while still being able to sleep, watch tv, eat, rest, and mate without any problems then go for it!

I for one can't/couldn't. I need my peace and quite and clean air.

[maxsolomon]

77. i'd approve of ELECTRIC snowmobiles.

but they don't exist.

regardless, motor sports are on the way out. peak oil will make all the noisemakers & peace-shatterers obsolete. nascar, cigarette boats, ski-doos, dirt bikes, snowmobiles; a pox on all of them.

nothing compares to the silence of ski touring in the backcountry winter. you can hear your heartbeat.

[struggle4progress]

79. How Snowmobiles Harm the Park

<snip>
Snowmobiles cause air and water pollution. In the 1990's, the highest carbon monoxide levels measured in the United States were found at the West Yellowstone park entrance. On an average weekend, snowmobiles pour out more pollution in Yellowstone than automobiles emit in the park in an entire year. These pollutants include but are not limited to carbon monoxide, ozone, and carcinogens such as benzene.

Snowmobile exhaust poses a significant health risk to Park Service employees. Pollution resulting from these machines became so severe in the mid-nineties that the Park Service had to install a special ventilation system to pump fresh air into ranger booths to protect the health of park employees. Today, park employees in Yellowstone are issued gas masks to ward off headaches, dizziness, and nausea that result from exposure to high levels of snowmobile exhaust.

Snowmobile engine noise shatters Yellowstone's natural quiet. The whine of snowmobiles penetrates up to 10 miles into the wilderness surrounding Yellowstone's winter travelways making it virtually impossible for the average visitor to escape the roar of these machines. The chronic noise drowns out the sounds of the region, often some of the Park's most popular visitor attractions: the bubbling of it's hot springs, the howl of it's wolves, and even the gushing of Old Faithful.

Snowmobile use threatens Yellowstone's unique wildlife. The Park's wildlife, including bison, elk, and wolves, are impacted by both the noise and the speed of these machines. By scaring wildlife away from prime foraging areas and causing them to expend important energy reserves, snowmobiles represent a significant strain on animals already stressed by harsh winter conditions.
<snip>

http://www.sierraclub.org/wildlands/Yellowstone/snowmobiles.asp