Explosions near Najaf's Imam Ali mosque

[seventhson]

This is important:


He (a spokesman)... appealed to the Vatican to urgently intervene to prevent a "massacre at a holy shrine".





http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/79C12B2E-F362-48D1-A39A-98A34B03946E.htm

Explosions near Najaf's Imam Ali mosque


Friday 20 August 2004, 8:38 Makka Time, 5:38 GMT


Shia leader Muqtada al-Sadr is besieged by US-led forces


"Massive" explosions have shaken the old quarter of Najaf as reports emerge that Shia leader Muqtada al-Sadr has ordered his militiamen to leave the holy shrines.



The reports indicated that the militia were to relinquish control of the Imam Ali mosque to Shia religious authorities.

Aus al-Khafaji, an al-Sadr office director in Nasiriya, confirmed the report in a telephone interview with Aljazeera.

He also appealed to the Vatican to urgently intervene to prevent a "massacre at a holy shrine".

[David__77]

1. So if there is a massacre, then Sadr played his cards to his advantage.

By appearing to be "giving in" and then a massacre even still occurring, it will make martyrs of the Mehdi Army. Further, the bumbling Iraqi occupation puppets are too-eager to claim "victory," not seeing the serious folly of doing so.

[seventhson]

4. Sadr accepted certain conditions made by the "council" but Allawi

changed the comnditions after Safr accepted.

Sadr was awaiting a negotiating team when the US began shelling again and so he copuld not negotiate and retreated into hiding.

NOTHING plsays to his "advantage" of he ans his followers are gunned down.

This is a propaganda war. Allawi will claim they offered Sadr his followers a part in the government and he rejected it (he does not trust that they will not kill all of them, I suspect) so yjru lo;;ed them all anyway.

The fact that there are now probably at least 100 dead in the vicinity of the Mosque and NO MEDIA coverage speaks volumes.

It is a massacre. Just like Babi Yar.

[wtmusic]

8. And the headlines read, "Sadr Reneges on Negotiations"

While the bombs were falling all about.

We can't stop bombing for one hour to negotiate. Al-Sadr has already said he has given in to demands, but Condi came out and said "we can't trust him" so basically they're creating an excuse to kill him--to dangerous to let live.

Sickening.

[tlcandie]

10. Well, they ARE partially right in that the * regime can't trust him

because he's more about the Iraqis than they are! He is too dangerous for them to let live! Way more dangerous than Saddam ever thought about being!!

[jayfish]

2. WTF Is Going On Over There?

This is just asinine. Is there any source of news that has any consistency.

He met with delegates, he didn't meet with delegates.
He accepted a deal, he didn't accept a deal.
He accepted a deal again, he rejected a deal again.
He ordered his troops out, he did not order his troops out
The Iraqi police control the mosque and arrested 500, they did no such thing... and on and on and on and on.

Maybe they are trying to get him to surrendered via sheer confusion.

Jay

[seventhson]

6. For the record _ Sadr met with delegates from the Iraqi representatives

he accepted a deal/

The Iraq executive puppet Allawi CHANGED the deal and wanted more concessions.

Sadr agreed to leave with his people but the US began shelling and killing them and further negotiations could not occur (wonder why???)

150 casualties among Sadr's supporters around the Mosque.

An appeal was made by Sadr's spokeman to the POPE, for Christ's sake! to stop the slaughter and the destruction of the shrine!

The Iraq government LIED when it said all was peaceful and they had peacefully taken the shrine and the fighters had "disappeared".

I say its Bullshit. I bet they are being slaughterted en masse as you read this.

I pray I am wrong.

We have BECOME the Nazis.

[tlcandie]

7. seventhson.. thanks for all your insight and efforts of wading through

all this muck! I agree and it isn't a surprise! We all knew it smelled and that scorched earth policy was being issued by the US.

:cry:

[seventhson]

11. I am preparing a lecture for Holocaust education seminar and similarities

in propaganda techniques during specific atrocities - especially in Lithuania, which I am currently studying - are just extremely frightening.

First - no one would ever believe the worst until people were slaughtered and disappeared (into mass graves and pits and mass fires) by the thousands and never heard from again.

In the Lithuanian ghettos the gestapo and ss "Kommand" operators ALWAYS gad a spin aftrer massacreing large groups.

"They were relocated"

They left on their own"

"We sent them to work far away and they will be back"

"Just be good and you will be fine"

After a while the Nazis and Lithuanian guards (and even the Jewish capos) did not even pretend any more when the "selections" and "evacuations" were happening.

But disbelief was always the first emotion and response.

No one could believe that human beings could be so evil and disgusting on a mass level.

It happens when there is hatred, race hatred, religious hatred, and greed operating. Not to mention revenge and blood lust, and simple necrophilic pleasure in splitting peoples brains open and chopping up their bodies and entrails with metal shot from guns and cannons/

I just read. Thgis story really troubles me for it begins to threaten ME and MY CHILDREN directly.

These people (Bush and his corporate "warriors" exploiting our solders

and killing OUR men in stupid adventures) are simply endangering the whole world.

[tlcandie]

12. Please take time out to take care of yourself .. find some peace

and quiet and stillness between all the good and emotionally vexing work you've taken on your shoulders! I applaud you for this.. what a heart you have! :hug:

All that you say is true and I think it is a denial mode to protect us from what we can't even begin to fathom. Maybe it is what is happening to all those who deny the horrible things about this regime... protection mechanism... the hiding their heads in the sand and not wanting to hear or learn the truths because they don't think they can bear it!

We must teach them that TOGETHER we can all bear the worst if we just shine the light into the darkness and stand side by side agreeing that that with all our differences, first we are human beings!!!

My heart breaks... :cry:

[seventhson]

13. " Light One Candle" by Soli Ganor

He is a survivor of the camps and the Lithuanian ghettoes and even survived, barely, at least one massacre in the infamous 9th Fort.

Books in the ghetto were outlawed.

He was a young teenager.

He was in the Dachau death march and was rescued/liberated by Japanese GIs from San Francisco

A must read.

But to underdstand the methodology of insane global genocide/suicide (and to fight it, one must be tireless.

BUT I do rest sometimes.

This story just REQUIRES constant attention by ALL of us.

It truly pisses me off that we cannot get the TRUTH because OUR government does not want us to and is urinating all over our free press in the murder of thousands.

[tlcandie]

14. I wrote it down to read.. thanks!!!

Is there a simple explanation for what is at the continuous genocides that run rampant on this earth?

[seventhson]

18. Greed and lust for power (including bloodlust : necrophilic power to kill)

It is all about selfishness, and insane/suicidal/homicidal lust.

The closest analogy is the bloodsports of rome for the entertainment of the ruling class.

Torture, murder, vomitoriums, orgy rooms, gambling - all for the "pleasure" of the rich

All things the opposite of Love and the creative and procreative urges.

[tlcandie]

20. Can it be narrowed down even more specifically?

Sorry, I can see all those and I appreciate the explanations, I do! I'm just wondering if we could get a pulse on this to educate about it and to change some things in our socitie(S) that could prevent this from happening again?

I know people never wanted this to happen after what happened by the Nazis, but we have come so far foward it seems we could actually GET IT and move forward now with this information.

I don't know if that makes any sense to you or not.

[seventhson]

21. good questions - they make sense - the response is that we need to educate

ourselves and our children about the methodologies of fascism -0 especially the Bush'Nazi variety

This thing, this evil, is intergenerational. It USES capitalism, terror, religion, and technology in very crafty ways to protect itself and conmsolidate its power.

But it is essentially the same group today who is promoting global war and hegemony for their own benefit as gave us Hitler as a "Brand" name product.

We must understand this and understand the techniques and methodologies used.

We are only just NOW waking up to the fact that the Nazis did not LOSE WWII. Bushes and Rockefellers and those who backed Hitler got away with it and run the world today. They are fascists and they use everything they have to keep their corrupt power.

Only educating as many people at as possible and utilizing democracy (mobilixe and motivate the people) can we pit an end to or at least minimize the harm of global corporate fascism which has us in its grip today just as it had the Jews of Europe in its grip in 1944.

[jayfish]

9. Well Summed.

I had a pretty good idea of the chain of events. The post was more a commentary on the sorry-ass state of our news gathering organizations.

Jay

[54anickel]

16. Thanks Seventhson, I thought I had it figured that way, but then the

reports started coming in and changing so fast today I began to think I might have missed something yesterday and last night. The media has certainly made this difficult to follow today.

[jmcgowanjm]

15. #1-the fact that AlSadr is communicating w/ the outside

must piss the hell out of the Pentagon.

#2-the fact that the Imam Ali Shrine was lit up like the
Beacon of Liberty while AC130 Gunships are firing
away at its defenders can't be good for
the invading occupying forces.

#3- It has been 11 days since Iraq pumped out any oil.
Thanx to AlSadr who is still alive and still on the loose.

[yellowcanine]

3. I thought the siege was over. What a cluster fuck the shrub is leaving

for Kerry to clean up.

[seventhson]

5. That is what they want you to believe. I don't

But I hope it is.

Every report I've seen says that fighting and shelling continues right now (or at last report) or else the reporters are too far away to know.

After seeing some of "Control Room" (about Al Jazeera) I tend to trust their reports on the ground MUCH more than aolcnntimewarnerhalliburtoncarlyle inc.

[jmcgowanjm]

17. Source: Al-Jazeera TV, Doha, in Arabic 0705 gmt 20 Aug 04

Al-Zufayri] We have with us from Al-Najaf Shaykh
Ahmad al-Shaybani, spokesman for the Martyr Al-Sadr's
Office. Shaykh Ahmad, to begin with, anything new in
the situation in Al-Najaf? What has changed so
far?
In the name of God, the Merciful,
the Compassionate. I wish to begin with a small introduction.
I would like to thank Al-Jazeera television channel for its
good media coverage of the events in Al-Najaf. I also
denounce the Al-Arabiya television channel, which was not at
all Arab but rather Israeli in its coverage of Al-Najaf events.
Its correspondent ...
Shaykh
Ahmad, ...
I must say this even if it contradicts the
press . Al-Arabiya correspondent Ahmad al-Salih was
not salih in reporting
events. He was staying at the hotels of the Americans saying
that the Americans have entered the old city. We are
currently, reporters and myself, staying in the Al-Sahn
al-Haydari al-Sharif enclosing Imam Ali's mausoleum] in the old city. You can ask
the reporters and they will tell you that the US army has
not advanced one single step

http://www.monitor.bbc.co.uk/examples_iraq_news.shtml

[seventhson]

19. Great link with interesting pieces

It looks like the fighting may continue...but the news regarding movement of the mosque official office and transfer to the "other" authority (from Sadr) looks promising.