WP: Some Veterans Still Bitter at Talk of Crimes (Letter Signers)

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A20242-2004Aug20.html

<snip>

Ferris is one of 250 Swift boat veterans who in May signed an open letter to the Massachusetts senator asking for full disclosure of his military records, specifically focusing on events during a four-month tour in Vietnam for which Kerry was awarded medals for bravery in combat. The veterans group -- Swift Boat Veterans for Truth -- has criticized Kerry for using his military experience as a centerpiece of his presidential campaign, arguing that the Democrat has exaggerated his experiences at war for political gain.

"I thought he was just another hot dog just trying to build his reputation," said Wayland Holloway of Searcy, Ark., who says he crossed paths with Kerry in 1969, one day before the future presidential candidate pulled Jim Rassmann from a river. "The first time I met John Kerry, frankly, I thought he was a very disingenuous person."

But while the group appears to be rooted in Republican politics and big money, several veterans who signed the letter said in interviews yesterday that they are casually into politics and generally are not convinced that Kerry is lying, but they do not like the candidate because of his polarizing speeches in the 1970s.

James Zumwalt, who attended the group's first news conference in May, said he joined the group solely to the set the record straight about the allegations of war crimes included in "Tour of Duty," a Douglas Brinkley book about Kerry's Vietnam service. Now, Zumwalt says, "I kind of have mixed feelings" about the tone of the group's attacks. "I would not try to question the awards given to him or his service."

[Democat]

1. Read this again

several veterans who signed the letter said in interviews yesterday that they are casually into politics and generally are not convinced that Kerry is lying, but they do not like the candidate because of his polarizing speeches in the 1970s.

The men who signed the letter do not think Kerry is lying.

Yet, the Swift Liars leaders say that everyone who signed it hates Kerry and thinks he's lying.

Another nail in the Swift Liars coffin.

Even the people who supposedly support them don't really believe their bullshit, they just don't like Kerry.

[jdj]

14. Hey, you jackasses, Bush just had tens of thousands of Iraqis

killed, like, THIS YEAR. When are you going to get around to not liking that?

[Scairp]

15. I think we all knew the true motivation

They all hate him for speaking out over THIRTY YEARS AGO. How absurd is it for them to hold a grudge for so long? How sad and bitter they all are, and how despicable that they have let themselves be used in this manner. I do hope that many of them will at least be honest enough to come clean and say they don't think Kerry lied, just that they are still angry and did this to try and get revenge on him.

[olddem43]

2. So they got people to sign something

and then used it for a different purpose.

[smirkymonkey]

3. Hey - At Least He F***ing Went to War!!

Which is more than anyone can say for Chimp. What a red herring.

They need to drop this crap, it's total partisan BS.

[MikeG]

4. I had enough of this shit. They committed the war crimes.

They are mad because someone got in their faces and said they were criminals.

Good for John Kerry.

[fearnobush]

6. Amen to that. Any one remember Mei Ly

[pretzel4gore]

17. they went to someone else's country and

destroyed property besides killing unarmed citizens.....though they were told they were 'fightin' commynism' ie defending liberty. no wonder the US has an america hating *hole like geeb (geb's brother) in highest elected office with these dupes mouthing off in every vfw hall in the land (???)

[lottie244]

5. Some veterns WERE guilty of crimes. Some are today!!

I can't even repeat some of the things my dad and my uncles told me about what went on in Viet Nam. They were thankful when Kerry testified before Congress. My uncle said he couldn't even sleep through the night for at leat five years after he came home becuse of what HE participated in. All anyone has to do is to read Kerry's testimony and think about Abu Gahrib.

[JohnyCanuck]

7. The eye witness of Tom Glen.

"The average GI's attitude toward and treatment of the Vietnamese people all too often is a complete denial of all our country is attempting to accomplish in the realm of human relations," Glen wrote. "Far beyond merely dismissing the Vietnamese as 'slopes' or 'gooks,' in both deed and thought, too many American soldiers seem to discount their very humanity; and with this attitude inflict upon the Vietnamese citizenry humiliations, both psychological and physical, that can have only a debilitating effect upon efforts to unify the people in loyalty to the Saigon government, particularly when such acts are carried out at unit levels and thereby acquire the aspect of sanctioned policy."

Glen's letter contended that many Vietnamese were fleeing from Americans who "for mere pleasure, fire indiscriminately into Vietnamese homes and without provocation or justification shoot at the people themselves." Gratuitous cruelty was also being inflicted on Viet Cong suspects, Glen reported.

"Fired with an emotionalism that belies unconscionable hatred, and armed with a vocabulary consisting of 'You VC,' soldiers commonly 'interrogate' by means of torture that has been presented as the particular habit of the enemy. Severe beatings and torture at knife point are usual means of questioning captives or of convincing a suspect that he is, indeed, a Viet Cong...

"It would indeed be terrible to find it necessary to believe that an American soldier that harbors such racial intolerance and disregard for justice and human feeling is a prototype of all American national character; yet the frequency of such soldiers lends credulity to such beliefs. ... What has been outlined here I have seen not only in my own unit, but also in others we have worked with, and I fear it is universal. If this is indeed the case, it is a problem which cannot be overlooked, but can through a more firm implementation of the codes of MACV (Military Assistance Command Vietnam) and the Geneva Conventions, perhaps be eradicated."

http://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/colin3.html

Above excerpts are from a letter written in 1968 by a US GI, Tom Glen, to Gen. Creighton Abrams CinC Vietnam. A certain Maj. Colin Powell was given the task of investigating Glen's charges and his superiors were no doubt relieved when Maj. Powell was able to conclude that relations between the US troops and the Vietnamese were just fine and things were pretty well peachy all over with a few minor exceptions. Maj Powell neglected to interview Glen or assign anyone else on his team to interview Glen and accepted at face value the claims of Glen's superiors that Glen was not close enough to the action to have made the observations he did. This was all not too long before news of the My Lai atrocity made headlines across the world.

[heidler1]

9. I'm 79 and a WW2 member of the VFW. I'm also for Kerry.

What the Vietnam has done to the Veteran is detract from the normal glory of war. I predict that this Iraqi war will be the same in that regard. There appears to be no honorable glory in wars that accomplish little or nothing. Kerry correctly pointed out that the Vietnam war was a waste and added to the doubts in the minds of the soldiers that served, they have not forgiven him for this even though he was courages in battle. To me it's a lot like Jane Fonda trying to get us to come to our senses, but the perception is still that she was a traitor. I believe the guys who are trying to get even with Kerry are tying her to Jane even though John Kerry was a hero. Of course some of them are being paid to lie.

Where is Jane now? We need her.

[enigmatic]

16. Welcome to DU, Heidler1!

[pretzel4gore]

18. scared...

that's what the nazi type do...they intimidate everyone so that those like fonda will shut up.
Jane's rich as sin (she scored billions when ted sold CNN) and an electorate that can give a bush 50 million(?) votes isn't worth fighting for imho.
bring on the apocalypse! hurray for global warming....

[Bush was AWOL]

8. Complaining about his actions upon returning is a legitimate

gripe. But should have taken place years ago. The fact that they waited until shows they have invested interest in this election.

Challenging medals is another story and something only a POS like O'Neil would do.

I'd like to find out how many of these guys are just angry about his senate testimony and anti-war actions as opposed to questioning his honesty about medals.

[EST]

10. Another thing one needs to keep in mind

is when JFK spoke about those atrocities, he wasn't just speaking for himself; he was also speaking for a whole group of returned vets who knew what the hell they were talking about and wanted him for a mouthpiece. Mei Lai only became a national scandal because it was witnessed by too many guys who were appalled by what was going on and the military couldn't get them to shut up. Tip of the iceburg. Commanding officers didn't get fragged just because one guy didn't like them.

[Nambe]

11. One of the groups John backed/s is alive and well.

And there is allot of them.

[Voltaire99]

12. Screw these vets. Vietnam was atrocity after atrocity.

Only in the United States of Amnesia does anyone cling to the fantasy that the US did something honorable in Vietnam.

The morally-obtuse pride of these old killers is sickening. And it is not just the right wing wishing to wash the blood off its hands. We can thank the neo-liberal leaders of the Democratic Party for also helping to put the truth about America's dirty war down the memory hole. Even Kerry has had a hand in that mischief, laughing and downplaying his famous testimony when interviewed about it by Tim Russert and doing his soldier shtick for the cameras at the convention. All of this posturing bullshit is preventing Americans from squarely facing their history, in which their best hope of salvation lies: Vietnam is our enduring tragedy and disgrace, and obviously, as Iraq shows, whatever cautionary effect it once had has long since worn off.

Those in need of education on Vietnam might read some of the excellent books by John Pilger, Michael Herr, and Philip Caputo, among others, on the subject. Or start with last year's Pulitzer-winning series from the Toledo Blade, found here:

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?Category=SRTIGERFORCE

[BeFree]

19. I remember the Vietnam war atrocities

No amnesia here, but you are correct, most of us have amnesia when it comes to Vietnam.

'Twould be nice if we could, once and for all, come to terms with the awful mistakes America inflicted upon that distant land and it's gentle people.

I have a feeling that with Kerry as our President we may finally be able to forgive ourselves, admit we made a huge mistake, vow to never do such a dastardly thing again, and bring our troops home, ASAP.

Maybe the controversy will awaken more of our fellow citizens to the truth they have so casually omitted from their consciousness?

Kerry On!

[NNN0LHI]

20. You are right. These scum suckers can blow me

If it wasn't for guys like Kerry I would have been drafted in 1974 and sent to Vietnam to get my ass shot off for nothing. Fuck them! And the horses they rode in on too.

Don

[Bozita]

21. Transcript of Winter Soldier Investigation -- Not for the timid

Pick a topic, any topic.


http://lists.village.virginia.edu/sixties/HTML_docs/Resources/Primary/Winter_Soldier/WS_entry.html

[jdj]

13. "Still"? Maybe when they get over this, in 20 years they will be

bitching about being "bitter" about talk of torture at Abu Ghraib.