Ban on Central Park protests meant to preserve lawn, NYC says

[Kadie]

Ban on Central Park protests meant to preserve lawn, NYC says

By LARRY NEUMEISTER, Associated Press


Last Updated: August 21, 2004, 06:19:00 AM PDT


NEW YORK (AP) - The city's decision to deny a permit to protesters for a rally on Central Park's Great Lawn on the weekend before the Republican National Convention is about preserving the lawn, not suppressing speech, lawyers for the city said in federal court Friday.

The lawn would be ruined if 75,000 people gathered there for a rally on Aug. 28 and then 250,000 people used the lawn for another rally the next day, said Gail Donoghue, representing the city.

"I think two is too many back to back. The lawn would have no time to recover," Donoghue told U.S. District Judge William H. Pauley III in Manhattan. "The damage would be really substantial."

So the city has "treated everyone equally," she said, turning down both requests as well as all five other groups that want to use the Great Lawn for protests during the convention, scheduled for Aug. 30 to Sept. 2.

more...
http://www.modbee.com/24hour/nation/story/1590509p-9212244c.html

lawn...free speech. Yep, lawn is more important.

[peekaloo]

1. Enough horse shit in that statement to fertilize it for years!

[demoman123]

34. The Great Lawn was designed to withstand large crowds--special soil mix

According to a horticultural expert who worked on refurbishing the lawn, it was designed to withstand the abuse of large crowds since the grass was planted in a special soil mix so that it could take the weight and traffic without reverting to the great dust bowl it had once been.

http://www.unitedforpeace.org/article.php?id=2509

[seventhson]

2. Important to note: decision not yet made: Decision should come Monday

fingers are crossed

[poliguru]

3. That argument would never make it through a court of law

Restriction of free speech can only be restricted on very limited grounds. Upkeep and care of the lawn is the city's problem - they just need to deal with it. This is so constitutionally unsound it's ridiculous.

[SOS]

15. Clarification

"Upkeep and care of the lawn is the city's problem"
Actually the City has nothing to do with the Park anymore, other than 15% funding.
The City failed miserably to maintain Central Park.
By 1980 it was a disgusting, crime-ridden dump.
Private citizens formed the CP Conservancy 24 years ago and are in charge of the park's maintenence and restoration today.
The Park has been restored to it's current magnificent state by the Conservancy, not the City.

http://www.centralparknyc.org/thenandnow/cpc-history/ataglance

[poliguru]

19. Thanks

That's interesting - they act so concerned but they couldn't even do upkeep themselves. I wonder if they discussed their decision with the Conservancy?

Either way, the park is public property, and political speech cannot be restricted there unless it is a serious safety or security issue.

[Jacobin]

4. Yes. We musn't muss the lawn

In balancing freedom of speech in a presidential election and turf, the interests of the turf must prevail.

[acmavm]

5. Haven't a number of huge concerts been held in Central Park over the

years? (Simon and Garfunkle comes to mind.) Weren't people all over the lawn for those occasions. And if I recall correctly, it had been raining before the one I mentioned, so that would really have been hard on the grass, soft wet dirt, 500,000 concert-goers.

Which is more important? Concert or free speech?

[prolesunited]

7. Yes, someone posted a list of concerts

with estimated crowd numbers, all of which outnumbered the projected number of prostesters.

[Cassandra]

9. Those were held before...

the lawn was resodded and had a specially constructed drainage layer put in. One of the arguments for having several of those massive concerts was that it didn't matter what shape the lawn was in at the end because it was going to be redone anyway. There have been no huge gatherings since the redo.

[aquart]

12. No concerts either? So grass won and NYC lost?

What a stupid decision.

[DoYouEverWonder]

20. That is not true

A number of major events with large crowds have been held on the Great Lawn since the restoration.

Here are some facts about the Great Lawn restoration:


The Great Lawn restoration is the largest public works project in Central Park since its construction in the mid 19th century. The Great Lawn has become a very widely used area within Central Park. It is the site of important and well attended New York events, such as the annual summer performances of the Metropolitan Opera and the New York Philharmonic Orchestra. Also, there are 12,100 softball games played on the Great Lawn's ballfields each year. Prior to reconstruction, the Great Lawn'ss soil had become extremely compacted, allowing little drainage and only supporting a minimal turf cover.

Putting greens and professional football fields were used as models for the root zone mix and drainage system. The root zone mix for the Great Lawn was developed by the Central Park Conservancy and Dr. Norman Hummel of Hummel and Co., Inc. This mix needed to drain properly, resist compaction and support lush turf growth under high traffic conditions. A root zone mix was developed using a sifted even aggregate sand, topsoil and over 6,000 cubic yards of Agresoil compost . Agresoil was chosen for this mix due to its consistency, nutrient value and high organic matter content.

A 20-inch root zone mix was placed above an extensive drainage system. After placement of the root zone mix, the 15-acre lawn was completely sodded. The Great Lawn will remain closed for one year to allow establishment of the turfgrass before hundreds of thousands of New Yorkers begin to enjoy one of New York City's largest open spaces once again.

http://www.agresourceinc.com/great_lawn.html



The Great Lawn, stretching from 79th to 85th street in the middle of Central Park, is the largest open space in the Park and the site of numerous New York City events, especially in the summer.

The New York Philharmonic and the Metropolitan Opera each present two free performances on the newly-restored Great Lawn in the summer. Visitors enjoy music performances surrounded by fresh green grass and outlines of city skyscrapers.

During the day, people play or watch a game of softball, soccer, basketball, or volleyball.


http://www.vacationidea.com/new_york_city/great_lawn_ce...

[Cassandra]

32. I didn't say it couldn't be used by thousands...

Just that the huge numbers they're talking about all at once might overwhelm the system. Now, if we could get the Repukes to pay for any damage (since I certainly don't want to bill the protesters) I'd say, go for it.
I was simply pointing out that the huge concert crowds that some remember were from a period before the resodding.

[dand]

6. What a crock, get in on the latest organization;

http://www.counterconvention.org/

[seventhson]

8. I think the cost of repairing the lawn will be more than the cost of

locking up people if there is a major riot over it.

On balance it is better to trample the grass than to trample the first amendment

[aquart]

13. Reread that.

[seventhson]

33. Duhhh, thanks. I mewant the cost of repairing the lawn will be LESS than

the cost of denying the use of the park

Thanks for the correction

[stellanoir]

10. protesters could volunteer to go

barefoot. . .then the excuse would become. . .foot fungi !

[MichiganVote]

11. We should all send Bloomberg a bag of fertilizer. You know the type

[WillyT]

29. LOL !!! - That Was Most Excellent !!!

Hee. hee...

:yourock:

On edit, and second thought: Ya know...

That would be one hell of a form of protest in and of itself!!! Get thousands of people to send bags of cow manure to City Hall to help out the great lawn, while making a political statement at the same time. I bet you could get the media to cover it, they sure peddle enough of it.

[MichiganVote]

31. I will look up the address and post it later. Look for it.

[0rganism]

41. You're definitely on to somethin' here, MichiganVote

Imagine if, say, 10000 people each sent a bag of grass seed and/or fertilizer to Bloomberg's office.

It would be a thing of beauty.

[Liberal Veteran]

14. Grass is more important than free speech, guys. Doncha know?

:eyes:

[Mari333]

16. Yes, and Im the Queen of England. n/t

[Lisa]

28. and she's one who knows the Bushies don't care about landscaping!

Remember how they trashed her garden?

"Thirty thousand visitors did not do as much damage as the Americans did in three days."

http://jgkojak.dailykos.com/story/2003/11/24/17825/950

[no_hypocrisy]

17. Yeah, those crowds from the Simon & Garfunkel concert in 1980 just

decimated that rich emerald grass in Central Park (400,000+, I believe). Mayor Koch would not stop talking about it for months. You'd have thought it was HIS backyard . . .

And what about those vandelous classical music lovers with their chi-chi white wine on blankets who show up when the NY Philharmonic and/or Pavarotti do a performance in the park every summer? Hey, you highbrows! Keep off the friggin' grass!!

There is SO much precedence, that this is a slamdunk in NY state court in favor of the City. Good thing Mayor Mike knows about policy before he took office.

[thecrow]

18. Hey the lawn will die off anyway come autumn

and then regenerate next spring. Heck, my lawn is practically dead now!
Since NYC apparently has so much FERTILIZER, they could spread some on that trampled lawn.

[henslee]

21. I got your lawn presevation right here, beeeoootch!!!!

[truthisfreedom]

22. don't tread on me... oops... don't walk on the grass...

everything changes, right?

[Scooter24]

23. Maybe the DNC

would be willing to cover the cost of the grass should we lose this ruling. We have quite a large warchest and this would be a worthy cause to spend it on.

[DoYouEverWonder]

24. How about a Million Blades of Grass fundraiser

Every protester could donate $1 to restore the grass after the protest rallies are over?

[Lindacooks]

27. LOL!!

That's a great idea - and something Moveon should hear about.

[fdr_hst_fan]

25. With the Repukes in charge, ther's no rally for Dem protesters;

however, with Repukes (or Dems) in charge, Repuke protest rally would be permitted. Figure THAT one out!

[InkAddict]

26. Grass grows back without blood - Freedom does not!

This is what happened to the lawn on the DC Mall between the Lincoln Memorial and the Washington Monument during the Poor Peoples March on DC in 1968.

It seems that the grass in DC grew back just fine!

[Briar]

30. What a coincidence

This is the excuse Bliar tried to use to prevent the anti war march gathering in Hyde Park in March 2003.

[Demeter]

35. Grass grows back--but has any democracy ever sprung out of

fascisim without an external force?

[The Commie]

36. OMFG...

That is the lamest excuse ever, Bloomberg. Grass has been stepped on by herbivores for millions of years. I think it can take human feet. :tinfoilhat:

[daleo]

37. We hold these truths to be self-evident

That all lawns are created equal, and endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights. Among these are life, liberty from human feet, and the pursuit of lushness.

And thus, a nation of perfect lawns was born.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Dancing_Dave]

39. Do People Still Know How to Do MLK-style non-violent Civil Disobedience?

It works. :)

[robcon]

40. It doesn't get the media attention that violence does.

It's sad, but MLK wouldn't get the media attention today. Violence (Seattle, Genoa, etc.) gets the attention.