Kerry's war journal contradicts medal claim?

[leQ]

on edit: my bad, just saw that was datelined 8/17. yikes. sorry.

WorldNetDaily has an interesting article that's getting lots of freeper play.

A previously unnoticed passage in John Kerry's approved war biography, citing his own journals, appears to contradict the senator's claim he won his first Purple Heart as a result of an injury sustained under enemy fire.
(snip)
While the date of the four-day excursion on PCF-44 is not specified, Brinkley notes it commenced when Kerry "had just turned 25, on Dec. 11, 1968," which was nine days after the incident in which he claimed he had been wounded by enemy fire.

Brinkley recounts the outset of that mid-December journey, which included a crew of radarman James Wasser, engineman William Zaladonis, gunner's mate Stephen Gardner and boatswain's mates Drew Whitlow and Stephen Hatch:

"They pulled away from the pier at Cat Lo with spirits high, feeling satisfied with the way things were going for them. They had no lust for battle, but they also were were not afraid. Kerry wrote in his notebook, 'A cocky feeling of invincibility accompanied us up the Long Tau shipping channel because we hadn't been shot at yet, and Americans at war who haven't been shot at are allowed to be cocky.'"

The diary entry apparently confirms assertions made by Swift Boat Veterans for the Truth, a group of more than 250 vets opposing his presidential candidacy who served in the Naval operation that patrolled the rivers and canals of the Mekong Delta area controlled by North Vietnam.

is this a commie production now?

[Liberal Veteran]

1. One could take it to mean they hadn't been shot at during that incident.

It's not specific enough.

[Democat]

2. This is not LBN, it's right wing propaganda and opinion

At the best, this should be in the Editorials forum, at the worst it should be in the trash. :)

[OilemFirchen]

3. Huh?

"The diary entry apparently confirms assertions made by Swift Boat Veterans for the Truth, a group of more than 250 vets opposing his presidential candidacy who served in the Naval operation that patrolled the rivers and canals of the Mekong Delta area controlled by North Vietnam."

How so?

"is this a commie production now?"

It's a... uhm... huh?

[kikiek]

4. Yeah World Net Daily is real reliable. Much more so than eyewitnesses

that have come forward confirming his accounts. HAHAHAHAHA

[LauraK]

5. World Net Daily causes brain cancer.

It is worse than drudge. You should see your doctor immediatly.

[joefree1]

6. Thank for posting this vomit

Shame on WorldNetDaily
by Jacob G. Hornberger, August 25, 2003

Several days ago, WorldNetDaily, a conservative website, published an article entitled “Libertarians Who Loathe Israel,” by Ilana Mercer (email), a self-described libertarian who is a WND columnist. In her article, Mercer wrote in part,
I understand that libertarians like Sheldon Richman (and the Holocaust-denying Institute for Historical Review) believe, mistakenly, that all ‘the land’ belongs to the Arabs.

Sheldon’s response to this vicious attack, “Disregard for the Truth,” which WorldNetDaily posted on its website, stated in part,
More seriously, placing me in the company of “the Holocaust-denying Institute for Historical Review” can only have been intended to imply that I am a Holocaust-denier. Re-read her sentence and the title of her article. Since the people at IHR are not known to be libertarians, there was no other purpose in mentioning the organization. In other words, Mercer has smeared me. Since I am a Jew, she was denied the opportunity to accuse me of anti-Semitism and so had to settle for hinting that I deny that millions of Jews were slaughtered by Hitler and the Nazis. As one who lost family in the Shoah, I find this more than a little ironic.

http://www.fff.org/comment/com0308l.asp


Download the free poster/sign here:
http://ediablo.com/eDiabloGallery.html

[Democat]

7. Let me respond directly to the quote in the arcticle

'A cocky feeling of invincibility accompanied us up the Long Tau shipping channel because we hadn't been shot at yet, and Americans at war who haven't been shot at are allowed to be cocky.'

They had not been shot at on that specific mission/morning yet, in the shipping channel. It is absurd to believe that Kerry had never been shot at up to that point in Vietnam. Who in Vietnam had not been shot at after having been there for weeks or months?

It's an incredibly stupid attempt which should be laughed at.

[mzmolly]

12. I agree, my gawd do these fools see their ignorance?

Egadz! :eyes:

[shockingelk]

19. more accurately,

You can't tell who Kerry was speaking of in "Americans at war who haven't been shot at are allowed to be cocky."

Zaladonis was with him on December 2nd when Kerry got wounded, the others weren't. Dunno, does anybody have the book to post a longer excerpt?

More importantly, on the night of Dec 2, not everybody agreed on whether they received enemy fire - Kerry said they did, Patrick Runyon and Zaladonis say they couldn't tell. They just opened fire on a group of men who ran for cover when ordered to stop.

Whether the shrapnel same from a grenade Kerry launched or not doesn't matter - the requirement to receive a purple heart is that the injury be received during action against an enemy and if it comes from friendly fire, the act cannot be "grossly negligent". As an example of "gross negligence" is gives provides the example of keeping an unexploded enemy projective as a souvenir.

Read the link in my gig if you're interested in more debunking of the claims in Unfit for Command.

[LTR]

8. Since when is WND a news source?

It's fan fiction.

[joefree1]

9. More about the LIIIIIAAAARS at WorldNetDaily

WorldNetDaily, Liar

When oh when will Joseph Farah and Co. ever tell its readers the full truth about John Kerry and his wife?

By Terry Krepel
Posted 8/3/2004
As the saying goes: In war, the first casualty is the truth.

Joseph Farah and his WorldNetDaily are at war against John Kerry’s presidential campaign -- and they have demonstrated a willingness to deceive and lie to its readers about it.

This call for battle comes from the top, starting with Farah’s own words. He has called Kerry "a privileged rich boy," "traitorous," "rotten to the core," and let's not forget "truly dangerous ... truly contemptuous ... truly egomaniacal ... truly without character ... truly transparent as a political huckster and charlatan." He has called Kerry’s wife, Teresa Heinz Kerry, "mentally unbalanced," adding: "Let me make this simple: This woman is nuts. She's certifiable."

As an opinion writer, Farah is free to state what he believes. But his attitude has not been confined to WND's commentary pages. It has spilled over into WND's "news" coverage, where it is clear that, like its Clinton reportage, it will run everything negative and nothing positive about the Kerrys, even if it has to make it up.

This started in February, when WND devoted four stories to rumors of an alleged Kerry affair when there was no shred of evidence beyond Drudge Report gossip to buoy it. We saw it in another February story accusing Kerry of helping a defense contractor who was later convicted of illegally donating to his campaign, which didn't report that the contractor in question also gave illegal contributions to four other congressmen, three of them Republicans.
more ....
http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/stories/2004/wndliar.html

Um, so do you regret posting this thread yet?

[dw]

10. "rivers and canals of the Mekong Delta area controlled by North Vietnam."

Wow. I never knew the NVA were even near the Mekong Delta in 1969, much less controlled it.

These "combat experts" really have their shit together.

[mzmolly]

11. OMG, talk about desperate parsing of words?

Could the "we" to which Kerry referred in his notebook entry have meant only that his crew, rather than Kerry in particular, had not encountered enemy fire?

Or, did he mean they hadn't been shot at that friggen DAY?!

Jesus these people are insane. :eyes:

I'll check back with a link to a swift boat debunking site and letch know what I find. :hi:

[mzmolly]

13. Swift Boat LIARS debunked here:

http://swiftvets.eriposte.com/kerryother.htm

http://swiftvets.eriposte.com

[jefferson_dem]

15. "Swift Boat LIARS debunked here:" INDEED!

Thanks for the links, mzmolly. I was just thinking today how it would be great to have all the swiftvet debunkment compiled at one place.

By the way, as you all see this is my first post on this terrific board. I had been a regular participant a few other forums. But this one really feels like *HOME*.

Well done, friends...!

[mzmolly]

17. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

Things can get a bit heated here, but most of us are on the same side.

Hope to see you around a bit more!

[MGKrebs]

18. Welcome to DU.

John Kerry has a pretty good debunking department himself:

http://www.johnkerry.com/rapidresponse/080504_truth.html


We confide in our strength, without boasting of it; we respect that of others, without fearing it.
TJ

If our house be on fire, without inquiring whether it was fired from within or without, we must try to extinguish it.
TJ

[Redleg]

14. You'll notice leQ didn't stick around to see your responses.

Flamebait bullshit.

[leQ]

20. um, i'm still here, and reading every one

again, i apologize as the date was certainly disqualifying this as LBN material, and i'm surprised the thread hasn't been locked already.

but suffice it to say, this was hardly meant as flamebait. if you knew what i put up with on ia.talk.misc, you wouldn't have made such a comment.

[bobbyboucher]

16. Be careful, only trolls link WND.

From my experience.

[wurzel]

21. You don't have to be "shot at" to be in combat. A minefield will do.

[Moderator]

22. Not LBN

Locking