Kerry Takes Fight Over Vietnam Ads to Bush's Ranch

[barbaraann]

By Adam Entous

CRAWFORD, Texas (Reuters) - Democrat John Kerry (news - web sites) will dispatch two fellow Vietnam veterans to President Bush (news - web sites)'s secluded Texas ranch on Wednesday to press him to condemn television advertisements accusing Kerry of lying about his wartime service.

The move comes one day after it was disclosed that a top lawyer for Bush's re-election campaign has been providing legal advice to the group behind the ads, the so-called Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.

Kerry is sending to Crawford former Sen. Max Cleland of Georgia, a frequent companion of Kerry's on the campaign trail and a fellow Vietnam War veteran who lost three limbs during the war.

Cleland and former Army Green Beret Jim Rassman, whose life was saved by Kerry during a Vietnam war firefight, will try to deliver a letter protesting the ads to Bush at his heavily guarded ranch, Kerry aides said.
...
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=615&e=5&u=/nm/20040825/pl_nm/campaign_ads_dc

My, my. This is quite a dramatic tactic! Kerry is more of a fighter than I knew.

[Nambe]

1. Did he deficate when he flew over the ads on his way to the ranch?

I would have.

[bluestateguy]

2. They will be stopped by goons

while I hope they are not roughed up, there could be a side benefit if there is video footage of two veterans (one of whom is disabled) being roughed up by armed agents of the Bush Administration.

[fearnobush]

6. Kind of reminds you of the Stand, when Randal Flag had to be confronted.

[tkmorris]

12. *snort* that's funny

Didn't someone get thrown out of a window in that scene? I wonder if defenestration is in the Bush playbook.....

[Democat]

3. Good for Kerry. Bush will probably hide like a little coward!

Or he'll try to spin it to make himself look good.

He won't stop the ads unless Republican polling starts to show them hurting Bush.

[jdj]

75. It sure as hell is way past time someone pointed out he's at the ranch

when he should be in the white house.

I hope this gets play for this if for no other reason.

I don't remember the private residences of previous presidents getting so much press (except for Kennebunkport).

[Fridays Child]

4. Fiver, fiver!

:kick:

[Frances]

5. Kerry is doing exactly what he did in Vietnam

He's going after the attackers head on.

Good for him!

Bush is such a bully! He will never go man to man with Max Cleland.

[speedoo]

9. As we used to say in the Navy... BRAVO ZULU!!!!

.....means "well done", Lt. Kerry.

Out-frickin-standing. Is there any way dumbya can counter this? I don't think so.. expect his mouthpieces to denounce it as a "cheap campaign stunt." Giving Cleland another chance to stuff one up dumbya's butt.

This counter-attack may have been too slow for some, but it has been brilliant.

[flordehinojos]

7. To go down to the Texas (Crawford) Ranch, uninvited would be tantamount to

an invasion of Bush's HEAVILY GUARDED(A LA SADDAM HUSSEIN PALACE)RANCH

[ROakes1019]

80. Bush's vacation

Bush will throw a temper tantrum over being disturbed while he's down starting fires at the ranch to feed his pyromania before he descends on the convention.

[truthisfreedom]

8. this will irritate the flying f*ck out of junior. he doesn't like anyone

disturbing his meetings with his mafia handlers... that's why he spends so much time at the ranch, btw.

[JohnnyCougar]

10. remember to rate the linked story a "5"

great news!!! Kerry is going to have a field day at the debates!!!

[Erika]

11. Kerry Is Sticking With "Bring Them ON"

Bush never fought in Vietnam. Let me repeat that, Bush never fought in Vietnam. Kerry is one heck of a guy!

[AnnitaR]

13. Damn this is great shit!

Gotta say even though Kerry wasn't my first choice I have to admit he sure as hell knows how to fight back against these fuckers! I'm not so sure my guy would be doing as well. Pains me to say that but I think it's true.

Don't know what it is about Kerry that makes him such a fighter. Just when they think they have him on the ropes he sucker punches them in the gut with something like this. I love it!

Gee, guess CNN will have some sort of "breaking news" to cover Wed and this won't even make it on there pile of shit channel.

[speedoo]

14. More from the story... (give it a 5)

"The Kerry letter, signed by at least seven Democratic senators who have served in the military, calls on Bush to "recognize this blatant attempt at character assassination, and publicly condemn it."


"Call on this group to cease and desist," they wrote.


Cleland said Bush "owes it to every soldier and veteran in the nation to stop condoning their smears through his silence."


Cleland lost his 2002 re-election bid after a bitter campaign in which Republicans questioned his patriotism. Bush did not intervene then, and Kerry spokesman Phil Singer said what happened to Cleland in 2002 is similar to "what is going on today" against Kerry."

McCain evidently did not sign it. Who needs him... this is freakin beautiful.

I think Oliphant probably was referring to this, among other things.

[lancdem]

42. McCain is out of the country, I believe

[jdj]

76. I can't let this go by without mentioning Cleland's election was stolen

okay, got it out of my system.

[Cronus Protagonist]

15. HAhahahaa Classic!

I snorted coffee out of my nose on that one and the last time I drank one was hours ago!

[DeepModem Mom]

16. I'm sitting here in tears at the thought of these two heroes --

Cleland with one limb left -- doing this, going to that God-forsaken place, for Kerry, and for all of us. I got up in such frustration this morning at SBVT's hijacking this campaign, with all that hangs in the balance. This is a dramatic move, and God bless these guys.

[Merlin]

19. Your post brought back a memory.

In the VVAW, way back in the early 70's in Philly, one of the Vets was a combat wounded quadriplegic who everybody loved and who loved everybody, and who wanted to be called "Shorty."

Shorty would ride in combat fatigues in his wheel chair at the head of every one of our protest marchs.

One special day--I think it was maybe the 4th of July, 1972--we were marching from FDR park, near the stadium, up Broad Street to City Hall, right through South Philadelphia. There were several hundred of us.

A lot of the folks in South Philly were right winger, Nixon backers back then. They sat on their porches lining Broad Street, watching the passing parade. Unbelievably, many of them would call out comments like "Why don't you guys go out and fight for your country!" We all would just laugh. Shorty would always look over and answer back, "I'll think about it!"

[DeepModem Mom]

20. A wonderful story, Merlin --

[farmbo]

34. Wanna bet he'll be busy "clearing brush" and can't receive them?

Still...this letter is probably an ultimatium: Call off the Smearboat Liars, or your AWOL and cocaine use during the same period will become fair game.

[mahina]

57. can anyone explain to me

why *'s AWOL and drug issues aren't on the table already?
What is this " if you dont' call them off everything is on the table" stuff? Why isn't it all fair game regardless?
If * had that kind of damning character evidence against President Kerry you know it would be wallpaper on the news.
So what gives?

[jdj]

77. Take a couple of days and do a study of media ownership

Look at who owns the majors, the cable stations, and the papers, and you'll have your answer.

[Invalence1]

17. As the fictional naval fighting man

Jack Aubrey would say "Straight at 'em!" Seems to be our man's style as well. Hooray for him! I'd be happy ta carry Mr. Cleland's coat for 'im. that should be all the help he needs to administer the appropriate whatfor to the poser in the flight suit.

[Cocoa]

35. turning the swift boat directly into the ambush

from Kerry's own nonfictional history in the Navy. :toast:

[Catfight]

58. EXACTLY! This is how a commander and chief faces the enemy!

[Andromeda]

18. Good show!

That'll teach them to mess with John Kerry.}(

[GOPAgainstGW]

21. 2,000 Houston Texans Could Help Max & Jim

Hey we know about 2,000 Houston Texans that could go along with Max and Jim to the Bush "Costra Nostra" Ranch for a little support.

We could also get one of the news networks to cover it. What do you folks think? - TAB

-------------
* Beltway and Texas Republicans Against Bush-Cheney ’04, Inc. *
-------------

[Berserker]

27. I think it's a great Idea GOPAgainstGW

"Geter Done"

[Child_Of_Isis]

22. Going way out on a limb here,

but what if this is all a ruse designed to bring down the bush cabal? What if Kerry was aware of the strategy of the swift boat vets and have subtly encouraged their charade? What if there is a mole,(or moles) on the inside who is in on this?

I do not believe that things are what they seem. I think there is a great strategy going on. And I believe it involves both dems and republicans.

Just a thought. Some days I feel that it is beating us down and this is crazy thought... until I see another good move by the Kerry camp.

[R Hickey]

32. I think it is more of a blind spot.

I think Kerry let them over-play their hand. Rove is very predictable. He always attacks his opponent at his strongest point.

[hang a left]

41. I have thought that as well.

That * and his band want to lose. I don't know about moles or how it would be done. But this has crossed my mind several times over the past year.

[JoFerret]

47. A conspiracy theory too far

imo.

[Child_Of_Isis]

66. Why does it have to be a conspiracy?

Why can't it be a good old fashion strategy? There is little doubt that the republican party has been hijacked, and I am thinking that there are more than a few who are not liking it. It's like chess... you try to keep more than several moves ahead of your opponent.

[mahina]

59. please

nt

[EST]

63. Bless your conspiracy theorist heart!

n/t

[Hoping4Change]

67. Oneill was hired by Charles Coulson at the behest of Nixon to

go after Kerry and he has been at it ever since. What you suggest is way off mark.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

23. Awesome! Simply awesome!

This is NOT sitting back and taking it.

[RazzleCat]

25. Bout Time

I have had it with Democrats just being so polite at the republicans just smear and lie to win. Go for it, hope old Georgie squirms for his whole vacation.

[Hoping4Change]

68. Great name razzlecat. Welcome to DU.

Glad you're here.:hi:

[Cooley Hurd]

24. Excellent!!!

Would Bush dare turn away two bonafide war heroes? It's lose-lose for the Chimpo!!! :D

[bushisanidiot]

26. Will AWOL Bush Be Able to Look Clelland In The Eye??

Clelland left 3 limbs in vietnam so president fuckup could snort coke and skip out on his military obligations back at home.

[Iceburg]

28. Vets storm Republican Cow Palace !!!

LOL!!!

[wishlist]

29. Forces media to clarify that babyBush still has not denounced the ad

MSNBC ran a headline for two days that he had denounced the ad, when he had only repeated his crap about all the ads. This makes it crystal clear that Bush has failed to denounce it, even after so many lies have been exposed about the Swiftliars version of events.

ABC gave it some great coverage today and showed how Kerry was even able to turn this around and laugh about how over-the-top the wild lies have gotten on the Comedy channel last night.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

31. EXACTLY. And imagine if they "camp out" there like vets did

on the mall in '71 until Bush gives them an answer? :bounce:

[chelsea0011]

30. Do you think anyone will come out to meet them?

I loved that Gunfight at the OK Corral picture running in the papers a couple of days ago. All the secuity people in a row marching down the "ranch" road to meet their friends.

[Cocoa]

33. should be a good photo-op

whether or not Bush meets with him. If they're stopped by security, it will be like something out of a Michael Moore movie.

Assuming anyone on TV covers this, that is...

[NewYorkerfromMass]

36. They should stay there until they get an answer. eom

[sidpleasant]

37. I'm not sure this is such a good idea

A lot of people will interpret this as kind of whiney, "please stop picking on me".

Somebody needs to write a TV ad that hits back as hard as the Swift Boat ad attacks Kerry. It should directly and clearly call them liars, even if such bluntness invites a libel suit.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

38. No. see post #29 eom

[lancdem]

43. I love this move

because it's so in-your-face. Calling on Bush to denounce/pull the ads from afar is one thing and could be construed as whiny, but having people like Cleland try to confront Bush directly shows is ballsy, if you ask me.

And I'm sure this is only the beginning. If Bush won't meet with them, as I expect, Kerry will just keep building the pressure.

[Judi Lynn]

54. Apparently it strikes many of us in a totally different way

Using real people to deliver messages, rather than having the message show up in an advertisement is far more emphatic.

It also has the ability to register a far more dynamic impact upon people spiritually, as they consider the value of two men who were changed forever by their own sacrifices during Viet Nam making their way, at great personal inconvenience to stare down the pResident, who will then remain hiding behind his curtains, and send out flunkies to deal with them.

Moral victory.

He knew they were coming. There's no excuse to NOT meet them, other than guilt.

[TankLV]

61. Ahh, I sse the whiners and hand ringers are starting to come out again!

Of course, never to make actual helpful, constructive ideas - but to just shoot down any and every attempt to take action or use items that should be to our advantage.

Thanks for playing - not!

[sidpleasant]

65. what a wonderfully Republican mind you have

Denounce any opinion that isn't in lockstep with your own - I bet you love watching Bill O'Reilly.

What part of "Somebody needs to write a TV ad that hits back as hard as the Swift Boat ad attacks Kerry. It should directly and clearly call them liars, even if such bluntness invites a libel suit" is not a "contructive idea"?

[TankLV]

81. Thanks for the laugh.

I notice you ONLY to CRITICIZE good ideas - and justified Democratic anger.

"Bill O-Liely"

Ha!

We want to take action. YOU just criticize!

[sidpleasant]

83. Prove it or apologize

If as you claim I only post "ONLY to CRITICIZE good ideas - and justified Democratic anger" then you should have no trouble finding numerous examples where I've done so. Let's see you cite, oh, say, ten examples. If you can't find that measly number of occasions where I've criticized "good ideas" then you should apologize. In the meantime you might want to consider if someone with your intolerance for any sort of thoughtfulness might not be more at home in the GOP. The last time I looked Democrats encouraged careful consideration and differing viewpoints, not scurrilous attacks on those who didn't toe the party line. I was campaigning door - to - door for Bobby Kennedy in rural Virginia when I was 13 years old. You can't teach me anything about justified Democratic anger.

[2Design]

39. Turning the boat into the line of fire.....way to go.....bush is a piece

of sh......

[Minnesota_Lib]

40. Looks like TO was right....

On Monday, Tom Oliphant said Kerry knows what he is doing and predicted the Senator was about to "turn his boat directly into the fire."

It's time for the chimp to either shit or get off the pot. }(

[wishlist]

44. CNN headline news just showed entire transcript of Cleland's letter!

and read it in entirety plus covered the lawyer connection right after. Great timing for this counter offensive by Kerry forces.

[goclark]

45. CNN ? That is a shock

The show down at Ranch Rehab has got to be dramatic.

Can other veterans, young and old, meet Cleland at the gate?
This is one moment in time that I wish I lived in Texas.
I would be right there at the gate with Max!

I love this in your face strategy.

I have seen many a bully on many a school yard. The only thing that stops them is to out smart them. The best "bully backers" are the ones that use their minds and their wits to get in the face of the bully.

Fighting and made protesting is not the answer. It has got to be dramatic and touch the soul of everyone who sees it.

This is a brilliant Bully Back technique!

What time do I get my pop corn?!:bounce:

[JoFerret]

46. "secluded", "heavily-guarded"'

Look at the language of the article. Good stuff. Beard the coward where he lives.; expose him. Flush him out. Keep the chimp squirming and weaseling.

[mistertrickster]

52. Heh, yeah, "smoke him out of his hole." Like Osama . . .

nt

[JoFerret]

62. It makes him appear as he is

secretive, hiding, empty, weaselly, defensive, avoidant, evasive, guilty, afraid, on the run. Yes - he is in the caves at Crawfor-Crawfor but Kerry is not letting him escape.

[Inland]

48. American heroes have to shame Bush into seeing them, stopping the lies

What have we come to with this miserable little president?

[goclark]

49. Keep this kicked! When will we hear more?

[Dawgs]

50. This is what..

a Commander and Chief does when attacked.

[mistertrickster]

51. Wouldn't you like to see a fist-fight between these two. It'd never

happen because Bush's only personal bravery comes from a bottle of booze, but I'm thinking a Kerry-Bush street brawl would look like James Caan's Sonny kicking his brother-in-law's wife-abusing ass in "The Godfather." Remember that?

Oh well, we got the debates . . . Bring 'em on (muhahahaHAHA).

[dogtag]

53. CNN just reported

that Max and Jim will be met by the Parks Commissioner (is the pig farm a park?) and handed a letter from some Shrub staffers. WTF?

[Judi Lynn]

55. "I'm George W. Bush and I approve this chicken-**** cowardly act."

They should be sure to ask on camera if George W. Bush knows they are there.

[gordianot]

56. Republican Party Line

Surprise! You can find the Republican Party response on Fox. Follow this thread.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,130010,00.html

[Catfight]

60. Maybe Bob Dole could take the letter to Bush? Or are both of them

digging some holes somewhere looking for BUGS?

[EST]

64. Blocked the frippin road. Wouldn't let him deliver the letter!

What kind of chicken shit??
Let the horselaugh begin! Again

[gordianot]

69. Bush in hiding

Typical Bush response who appears to have found surrogates to do his dirty work outside his ranch. Play veteran against veteran. I am curious what the Bush counter-letter really says. This is going to get nastier before it goes away. I am sure Max has been in much worse places. Arriving at the Texas gates just like the gates of Mordor in Lord of the Rings. These men are still warriors.

[Judi Lynn]

70. That's tacky.

They don't seem to grasp that doing the easiest thing is not always the best thing!

[EST]

71. In my angry disbelief,

I have yet to grasp the sullen, murderous depths of dark depravity engulfing the diseased brains of otherwise apparently superficially normal citizens who can still embrace those horror mongers. What sort of shameful sickness could this be and what possible solutions can we find for those poor, benighted satan worshipers. (Whoops, sorry-maligned Satan)

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

72. They almost never grasp that

[Jane Austin]

73. Dang, they seemed to welcome any old Saudi or Afghani at the "Ranch".

So how come they won't let in a genuwine American hero?

[Pluvious]

84. Didn't Shrub have the Taliban over just before 911 ?

Something about a pipeline deal or something ?

[Jane Austin]

86. That's what I remember.

Somebody flew in on either President's buddy's plane or Air Force One, and the visitors said no female flight attendants allowed.

Or so I remember.

[Bozvotros]

74. Here's why I am not wild about this...

I know that *, the little puke, will simply repeat his standard 527 bullshit, like "lets get rid of ALL the ads." That works for him better than Kerry, because you know * will never follow any rules. Those are for the common folk (aka Democrats)

Second, I think his refusal so far to condemn the ads which are proven to be just shot through with bullshit, gives our 527's and party ads a chance to hit much harder. I can't believe how namby pampy nice our ads have been. If * makes some half hearted concession to this overture, people will expect us to back off on our hard hitting fact based ads.

I think the time is now to start putting it all on the table. Fahrenheit 911 has softened the populace up for us to point to his AWOL status, his drinking, his arrests, Harken, the Texas Stadium, funeral gate, his true Texas record, his multitudinous lies since being in office. We have a huge arsenal of attack ads. We gave him plenty of chances to be decent. We should have known he wouldn't be.

If Bush gives in, even a little, here, any attack ads we use, will be viewed as hypocritical even if they are totally factual.

[jdj]

78. I just picked up Flynt's new book at the library

I have heard NEXT TO NOTHING about it, and it's already at the library.

We can make ads all we want, but with no outlet we are just pissing into the wind.

[gordianot]

79. Take off the gloves

No reason to have anything other than factual ads. In the case of the Bush family truth is stranger than fiction.:nopity:

[Nicholas_J]

82. Well this time around

At least they are putting togetther a strong case that indicated some direct links between these scummy groups and the Bush campaign to begin with. When they did it to Cleland, of course everyone defended Cleland, but there was no attempt to directly link the group and people to the Bush people. The same thing when they went after Mc Cain. Bush has always been able to disconnect himself from the people who were supposedly doing dastardly deeds in his name. Now with the Swift Boat Veterans member who was a high level volunteer for the Bush National Canpaign being fired, Bush's outside attorney resigning, people who are complaning that they were used in the commercials without permission, the inconsistancies between the past statements praising Kerry by a number of high level Swift Boat Veterans, who are now claiming that their past statements were incorrect, one of the other recipients of the Bronze Star under the same circumstances and on the same day Kerry did first claiming he never knew he received the Bronze Star, then the attempt to decieve the vopting public into thinking that he had no idea that his Bronze Star citations reported that he was under fire when the events occured for which he won it (even though the medals are presented with citations giving a full description of the conditions) Then claiming that he lost the citation 20 to 25 years ago. For the past few days the issue in the media has no longer been questioning Kerry's record, but criticizing the type of soft money groups that use money to libel a candidae in order to effect the election, knowing that they will not finally be found to havelibeled the candidate until after the election is over and they have accommlished what the desired.

I find it amazing, and perhaps Democrats should bring this up as a campaign issue in favor of Democrats that members of th Republican Party seem to have a great inability to keep track of paperwork and records. I mean after all, I cant think of any president in the past who has had such bad luck or completet inability to hold onto vital paperwork than George Bush. The sheer statistical likelihood of the ONE piece of paper that could prove whether Bush was actually present during thre contested period of time,as well as his medical records, which would indicate wh3etther he showed up for the questioned medical testing or not, must be mind boggling. And other paperwork that seems to be uinavailable regarding arrests for possession of cocaine (a felon, high crime or misdemeanor which would make him ineligible for the presidency), and the paperwork regarding other arrests. The statistical likelihood of all of these separate agencies all losing just the right paperwork to make it impossible to prove one way or the other, critical events about Bush's life compounds the statistical formula.

But this does not seem to be limited to Bush. The Swift Boat Veterans can not come up with ONE document that would indicate anything questionable about the citations recieved by John Kerry during his tour of duty in Vietnam. Mr Thurlow, one of the foremost front ment for Swift Boat Veterans seems to also have "caught" the Republican disease that causes them to lose paperwork and documentation.

What I find most inappropriate is that John Mc Cain has not stepped back from actively supporting Bush in his presidential bid, considering that when Bush was attacking Mc Cain in a similar fashion during the Republican nomination processs for the 2000 election, John Kerry traveled around the United States defending Mc Cain, DURING THE CAMPAIGN PROCESS for the presidency in 2000.

The least Mc Cain could do would be to not actively work for Bush, nor attack his campaign, but remove himself form the process in order to do as much for Kerry during a presidental campaign as Kerry did for Mc Cain.

Anyway, this time Democrats are actively looking and finding links to the Bush Campaign, and they are strong enough to make a circumstantial case to the public that Bush is invilved with this group and its campaign. They criticized it and attacked it in the past, but did not actively look for links. It is not surprising that they found something this time, as lack of effort to do so in the past has made Republicans sloppy, and so it has been possible to catch them distributing invitations to the Swift Boat Veterans speeches in Alachau County, Florida as well.

The firing and the resignation does not make it look any better for the Bush Administration.

[Pluvious]

85. I have this fantasy of McCain...

...in his GOP speech making some strong points, you know Rove breaks out into a cold sweat just thinking it could happen.

But there's certainly been some quiet warnings to not stray from his approved text...

Anyway, some very spot on comments there Nicholas.

[Nicholas_J]

90. My fantasy is even more bizarre

I have this vision of Mc Cain getting up at the repuke convention and stating he
is going over to the Kerry camp as revenge for what Bush did to him during Mc Cains
own 2000 campaign.

[ArnoldLayne]

87. Now we need the Plame

scandal to break so I can see a few Cons frog-marched out of the White House fat faced Rove especially.:kick:

[KTM]

88. From Bush's reply letter:

"There is no double standard for our right to free speech. We all earned it."


(except we prefer to keep YOUR free speech in a zone about two miles from here.)

[Dr Fate]

89. Kerry will kick his ass for this...

I'm actually GLAD about he swift boat vets...