McCain 'sick and tired of re-fighting' Vietnam War

[swag]

Posted 8/25/2004 9:18 PM Updated 8/25/2004 9:58 PM

By Jill Lawrence, USA TODAY

Sen. John McCain argued Wednesday that Americans need to get past Vietnam, spreading blame for the bitter political debate among both presidential candidates, a federal agency and a veterans group attacking Sen. John Kerry's combat record.

"I'm sick and tired of re-fighting the Vietnam War. And most importantly, I'm sick and tired of opening the wounds of the Vietnam War, which I've spent the last 30 years trying to heal," the Arizona Republican said at a lunch with USA TODAY and Gannett News Service. "It's offensive to me, and it's angering to me that we're doing this. It's time to move on."

A former Navy flier, McCain spent more than five years as a prisoner of war in Vietnam. His remarks came on a day in which a resignation, a new TV ad and a pilgrimage to Crawford, Texas, kept the old war alive in the current campaign.

McCain will address the Republican convention in New York on Monday night and says he will talk about Iraq. "I will say ... that we have had ups and downs and mistakes have been made. But the theme of my speech will be to affirm my strong support for winning in Iraq," he said.

. . .

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/president/2004-08-25-mccain-_x.htm

link added on edit, thanks.

[54anickel]

1. Link?

[Born Free]

34. McCain losing credibility

McCain is losing all credibility with moderates, they see him as just another tool for the bush coward to hide behind. When the going gets tough on the bush coward, and pressure is being applied to smoke the bush coward out of hiding behind these personal character attacks, the bush cowards brings out McCain to say let's change the subject. It's NOT about Vietnam, it's about "CHARACTER" - the bush coward is attempting to do to John Kerry the same thing they did to Al Gore, and everyone else they run against - make them look evil. Hell, they even used the same tactics to get people to support invading Iraq, morphing 9/11 into Iraq. This is a constant pattern the bush team uses, and always hiding the bush coward to keep him safe from public view. Democrats must not give up this time, democrats must insist the people of America get to see this coward for what he is. Once the average American see what low moral character the bush coward really has, they will dump him like a hot potato, once the myth is broken Americans will see the bush coward the same way most people of the world see him, a tough talking ,lying coward.

[Cocoa]

2. it's not about Vietnam to me

nor campaign finance, nor free speech.

It's about lies.

[Rowdyboy]

3. And desperation to stay in power...

There is no slur to low, no shot too cheap...They are determined to retain power.

[Fridays Child]

6. Thank you. Vietnam is merely the vehicle for their attempted...

...destruction of the opposition. And notice how B*sh had to trot out McCain and Rove, today? Max Cleland put that bastard right on the ropes.

[0007]

42. Absolutely, it is about truth and call junior out on all of his lies

and his ruthlessness, and his drive for power in the name of greed.

[Enrico]

4. Why is McCain a Republican?

Why does McCain remain a Republican after everything they've
done to him?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

11. Check his voting record.

It's worse than Santorums. That's why.

[schultzee]

28. He may be socially liberal but he is economically a republican.$$

[notbush]

31. He's not socially liberal

He's a pro-life gun toter.

[IA_Seth]

51. Gun Toter

And I am a pro-choice "gun-toter"

Gun Control is a wedge issue that only helps the Republicans!

And this can of worms has officially been re-sealed.

[AngryOldDem]

5. Don't Tell Us, McCain...Tell Bush

Most of us have been wanting to "move on" and discuss the here and now for weeks. But Bushco won't let us.

[krkaufman]

19. Exactly. McCain isn't following through.

He needs to get Bush to denounce the ads, or pull his support. He knows, just as the Kerry Campaign is saying, that Bush is behind the smear.

[Catfight]

7. It's about Bob Dole jumping on the hate Bush wagon and saying

Kerry didn't bleed enough. It's about THAT, and I want a goddamn apology from Dole, Bush and McClellan now. McCain doesn't mean shit to me, he's the biggest flip flopper wack job yet! He's for Bush, he denounces Bush, he supports Bush, he supports Kerry....he's just loony.

[trapper914]

39. Don't get me started on Dole...

He insulted every veteran who ever received a Purple Heart...himself included. Hey, Bob...how do we know your limp arm didn't come from excessive spankin' of the ol' monkey?

[MichiganVote]

8. Who's "we" McCain? You're the one on the stage hugging a

so called president who undeniably had something to do with the dispicable swift boat ad's. T'weren't me and t'weren't the Dem's.

[physioex]

9. I am sick and tired of McCain's mixed messages....

I wish he would be a consistent asshole, just follow Shrub....

[MichiganVote]

16. Yup. Wouldn't trust a politician I couldn't be friends with.

[LisaL]

50. Looks like he is striving to do

just that.

[Just Me]

10. When will he pound those who are re-creating that nightmare,...

,...for "controlling" and immoral purposes?

Open thy eyes,...if they aren't already, mr. mc-cain,...and lost in the shuffle.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

12. Again....

Here is the Optimal Classification algorithm ranking of of the Senate, from liberal to conservative:


108 1366 56 WEST VI D BYRD, ROBER 27 365 0.926 1.000
108 15011 71 CALIFOR D BOXER 10 370 0.973 3.000
108 29142 5 RHODE I D REED 19 377 0.950 3.000
108 14914 12 NEW JER D LAUTENBERG 20 377 0.947 3.000
108 10808 3 MASSACH D KENNEDY, ED 16 359 0.955 5.000
108 13039 52 MARYLAN D SARBANES 6 372 0.984 6.000
108 14230 31 IOWA D HARKIN 12 359 0.967 8.000
108 94240 6 VERMONT I JEFFORDS 49 371 0.868 8.000
108 15503 43 FLORIDA D GRAHAM, BOB 16 273 0.941 8.000
108 14307 6 VERMONT D LEAHY 19 375 0.949 10.000
108 14213 1 CONNECT D DODD 15 372 0.960 11.000
108 14922 56 WEST VI D ROCKEFELLER 20 376 0.947 12.500
108 15021 21 ILLINOI D DURBIN 11 379 0.971 12.500
108 49309 25 WISCONS D FEINGOLD 31 379 0.918 15.000
108 14709 23 MICHIGA D LEVIN, CARL 12 379 0.968 15.000
108 40104 12 NEW JER D CORZINE 19 377 0.950 15.000
108 4812 82 HAWAII D INOUYE 25 331 0.924 17.000
108 39310 73 WASHING D CANTWELL 19 377 0.950 19.500
108 14440 52 MARYLAN D MIKULSKI 8 374 0.979 19.500
108 40105 13 NEW YOR D CLINTON 20 376 0.947 19.500
108 49902 47 NORTH C D EDWARDS 9 241 0.963 19.500
108 14400 82 HAWAII D AKAKA 22 379 0.942 24.500
108 14920 3 MASSACH D KERRY, JOHN 2 146 0.986 24.500
108 15704 1 CONNECT D LIEBERMAN 10 184 0.946 24.500
108 40101 33 MINNESO D DAYTON 27 368 0.927 24.500
108 49308 73 WASHING D MURRAY 16 375 0.957 24.500
108 29732 23 MICHIGA D STABENOW 11 379 0.971 24.500
108 14912 66 NEW MEX D BINGAMAN 34 375 0.909 28.500
108 14858 13 NEW YOR D SCHUMER 24 378 0.937 28.500
108 49300 71 CALIFOR D FEINSTEIN 32 370 0.914 30.500
108 14871 72 OREGON D WYDEN 28 377 0.926 30.500
108 14651 43 FLORIDA D NELSON, CLA 29 375 0.923 32.000
108 15054 65 NEVADA D REID 12 377 0.968 33.000
108 11204 48 SOUTH C D HOLLINGS 44 357 0.877 34.000
108 14617 37 SOUTH D D DASCHLE 14 377 0.963 35.000
108 15425 37 SOUTH D D JOHNSON 16 376 0.957 36.000
108 15703 25 WISCONS D KOHL 13 375 0.965 37.000
108 14101 11 DELAWAR D BIDEN 29 360 0.919 38.000
108 14812 36 NORTH D D DORGAN 11 376 0.971 39.000
108 15502 36 NORTH D D CONRAD 24 375 0.936 40.000
108 49901 22 INDIANA D BAYH 35 378 0.907 41.000
108 40100 11 DELAWAR D CARPER 39 371 0.895 42.000
108 29305 42 ARKANSA D LINCOLN 19 376 0.949 43.000
108 0 42 ARKANSA D PRYOR 25 377 0.934 44.000
108 49702 45 LOUISIA D LANDRIEU 24 371 0.935 45.000
108 14203 64 MONTANA D BAUCUS 29 378 0.923 46.000
108 13056 45 LOUISIA D BREAUX 39 376 0.896 47.000
108 40103 35 NEBRASK D NELSON, BEN 29 363 0.920 48.000
108 49905 5 RHODE I R CHAFEE 56 377 0.851 49.000
108 14661 2 MAINE R SNOWE 39 379 0.897 50.000
108 49703 2 MAINE R COLLINS 38 379 0.900 51.000
108 14910 14 PENNSYL R SPECTER 39 376 0.896 52.000
108 49705 72 OREGON R SMITH, GORD 16 357 0.955 53.000
108 0 33 MINNESO R COLEMAN 18 378 0.952 54.500
108 15020 24 OHIO R DEWINE 17 379 0.955 54.500
108 49904 44 GEORGIA D MILLER 17 302 0.944 56.000
108 14226 31 IOWA R GRASSLEY 10 379 0.974 57.000
108 14852 32 KANSAS R ROBERTS 9 378 0.976 58.000
108 95407 62 COLORAD R CAMPBELL 32 358 0.911 59.500
108 29523 32 KANSAS R BROWNBACK 16 376 0.957 59.500
108 49903 24 OHIO R VOINOVICH 26 372 0.930 61.000
108 49307 67 UTAH R BENNETT 8 374 0.979 62.500
108 15501 34 MISSOUR R BOND 11 375 0.971 62.500
108 14503 67 UTAH R HATCH 11 378 0.971 64.000
108 14103 66 NEW MEX R DOMENICI 9 351 0.974 66.500
108 0 81 ALASKA R MURKOWSKI 18 364 0.951 66.500
108 12109 81 ALASKA R STEVENS 14 378 0.963 66.500
108 94659 41 ALABAMA R SHELBY 18 370 0.951 66.500
108 14009 46 MISSISS R COCHRAN 6 379 0.984 69.000
108 0 54 TENNESS R ALEXANDER 6 373 0.984 71.000
108 14712 40 VIRGINI R WARNER 18 377 0.952 71.000
108 49900 21 ILLINOI R FITZGERALD 20 374 0.947 71.000
108 14506 22 INDIANA R LUGAR 9 377 0.976 73.000
108 29512 44 GEORGIA R CHAMBLISS 11 378 0.971 75.000
108 49704 35 NEBRASK R HAGEL 12 365 0.967 75.000
108 49306 49 TEXAS R HUTCHISON, 27 374 0.928 75.000
108 0 34 MISSOUR R TALENT 13 376 0.965 77.000
108 0 47 NORTH C R DOLE 15 378 0.960 78.500
108 15701 64 MONTANA R BURNS 8 376 0.979 78.500
108 49502 54 TENNESS R FRIST 10 379 0.974 80.000
108 14031 46 MISSISS R LOTT 12 367 0.967 81.500
108 14921 51 KENTUCK R MCCONNELL 6 367 0.984 81.500
108 29566 48 SOUTH C R GRAHAM 20 377 0.947 83.000
108 15406 51 KENTUCK R BUNNING 8 371 0.978 85.500
108 14809 63 IDAHO R CRAIG 8 376 0.979 85.500
108 29345 63 IDAHO R CRAPO 7 372 0.981 85.500
108 15424 53 OKLAHOM R INHOFE 11 372 0.970 85.500
108 0 49 TEXAS R CORNYN 7 378 0.981 88.000
108 49706 68 WYOMING R ENZI 14 379 0.963 90.500
108 29148 40 VIRGINI R ALLEN 14 378 0.963 90.500
108 14826 4 NEW HAM R GREGG 34 378 0.910 90.500
108 15633 68 WYOMING R THOMAS 1 186 0.995 90.500
108 49700 41 ALABAMA R SESSIONS 12 378 0.968 93.000
108 29141 14 PENNSYL R SANTORUM 13 377 0.966 94.000
108 29740 4 NEW HAM R SUNUNU 17 367 0.954 95.000
108 29108 62 COLORAD R ALLARD 12 377 0.968 96.500
108 15039 61 ARIZONA R MCCAIN 50 374 0.866 96.500
108 29537 65 NEVADA R ENSIGN 23 369 0.938 98.000
108 15429 61 ARIZONA R KYL 10 377 0.973 99.000
108 14908 53 OKLAHOM R NICKLES, DO 8 378 0.979 100.000


http://voteview.uh.edu/sen108.htm


The FOURTH most conservative member of the Senate. He doesn't trumpet this aspect of his political persona, does he?

[Blue Gardener]

35. But, but...I thought Kerry was the most Liberal!

Looks to me like he's about 23 on the list. Does this mean someone is lying about John Kerry's voting record?

[xray s]

13. Oh oh...McCain better check in with Rove re; Iraq

"Mistakes have been made"? That's not in the script.

[Pluvious]

24. Not at all - Bush said to clarifine it...

...ah... um... Biggest Mistake ?

Ummm... There must have been one thar somewheres...

um... but, dog gone it jest can't um ya got me on the spot here,
ah ah um, I know if I think of nothing, something the come along, to me just like that, um...

__________________
"We've got darned good intelligence"

[JI7]

14. Kerry didn't bring up the POLITICS of that time to fight it again

it was the republicans who did it. it was the republicans who lied and questioned his service and demanded he release his military records. it was repbulicans who lied even about the protests with the fake fonda pics and distortion of what he said while testifying in front of senate.

what kerry did was talk about his service in general and it mostly focused on his bond with the guys he served with and how they have always been close.

but even more important is the reason kerry focused on his service so much , especially at the convention was because he knew they would attack him no matter what. on being weak, and on his protests and other things. he was able to get his story out and his crewmates were able to go around campaigning for him. and i believe this is one reason why all the attacks have not been as effective as they would have been had he not done this.

[Just Me]

15. Excellent points,...someone should be taking attention,...n/t

[Tansy_Gold]

21. This is the first "wartime" political campaign since 1972

Wartime service was bound to come up, and both boosh and Kerry saw service during Vietnam. The inevitability of the discussion is what people need to get over.

Had Kerry not brought up his military service, boosh would have bragged about his own, not 30 years ago but as C in C of the war against terror. Kerry had to counter with something -- and that had to be his service in Vietnam. And then the booshies had to try to demolish that.

McCain is, IMHO, as much in denial as any of the other nutcases, maybe more so. He's in the party that pushes war and death and all the other attendant miseries, which McCain knows better than most by personal experience. He has to deny the horror of his own experience and extol the rightness (pun definitely intended) of putting more and more and more young people in harm's way. I'd hate to be his shrink.

No, Kerry didn't bring it up -- boosh brought it up the minute he slammed McCain in 2000, the minute he went to war on an excuse flimsier than shots allegedly fired at the USS Maddox, the minute he put on that flight suit, the minute he declared himself a war president.

McCain's an asshole, and in his own way, he's a much a liar as O'Neill and the not-so-swifties.

[Hokie]

17. FUCK YOU JOHN McCain!!!

I am so sick of this asshole. He pretends to demonstrate some intelligence and then hugs Bush. What is the matter with this asshole? Is he a classic masochist or what? He lets Bush screw him and then comes back for more. Is he a classic battered wife or what?

[Tight_rope]

38. LMBAO....Looks like you described him to a tee!

[0007]

44. John MCCain is dumber than the smartest dog!

[The_Casual_Observer]

18. It's getting too out of control & chimp is losing

so it's time for the McCain "voice of reason". Well, forget it asshole! Let them reap what they sow.

[fearnobush]

20. Sen McCain, John Kerry and Max Cleland have every right to speakout agains

t these filthy slime creatures. You look at half of them on interviews and you can see the guilt and shame on their faces because they know the just opened a can of worms thats unstopable. Yes Sen. McCain, this will once again tare apart this country. I commend you for defending John Kerry as he defended you in 2000. However, its time to end this the only way, and thsi is by ending Bush and his minions of Death... Not the Vets, not the liars, they too are victems of Bush, I mean end the BFEE once and for all. Never again shall we have a Bush in public office ever again. You Sen. McCain can help to restore this country to sanity by booting Bush Rove and crew out NOW!!!!.

[physioex]

22. You sure are barking up the wrong tree........

"You Sen. McCain can help to restore this country to sanity by booting Bush Rove and crew out NOW!!!!. "

[fishnfla]

23. I'm about ready to hear 'bout some issues that face us today

and tomorrow

[leesa]

25. Shut up traitor.

You have sold your country down the river with your greed for Republican dollars.

[RivetJoint]

40. McCain a traitor?

That's just wrong...

[democrank]

26. I respect McCain`s courage during Vietnam

but my respect ends there. As far as I`m concerned, he puts party over both country and family. If George Bush did to me and my family what he did to McCain, I sure as hell wouldn`t be riding around in a tour bus telling America what a terrific guy he is and I certainly wouldn`t be hugging him on stage.

I`m absolutely convinced that McCain understands Bush is using him, but neither of these men with enormous egos are going to give an inch and let on that the other one is bothering him.

McCain can preach about principles all he wants during his lovefests with the media, but actions speak louder than words.

[whistle]

27. Well, the way the BushCo people see it, it's better to rehash...

...Bush's AWOL record and bash Kerry about Vietnam than to allow Kerry to draw a bead on Bush's most recent war record, Iraq, Afghanistan, Osama, terror, 9/11 and of course the economy stupid. Bush's record during the past 44 months for christ sake, that's what needs to be focused on, his miserable failures that are affecting us now!!!!!!

[daleo]

29. McCain is tired of talking about Viet Nam, but he never learned the lesson

"the theme of my speech will be to affirm my strong support for winning in Iraq," he said."

Thirty-five years from now his children and grandchildren can be re-hashing the Iraq fiasco, courtesy of McCain and his type.

[bogey18]

54. Right fucking on.

Sad and truer than air.

[TankLV]

30. Then stop STARTING the shit, scumbag!

Just how stupid do you think we are! We are Democrats, not your stupid repuke!

YOU, asswipe McCain, dirtbag for going along with the lies about Kerry, support the dirtbags doing this. YOU started this!

YOU can stop bunkerboy and your fellow chickenhawk repukes ANY TIME YOU WANT TO from spreading the FILTHY LIES!

[Voltaire99]

32. How can McCain "refight" the Vietnam War when he spent it as a POW?

But never mind the lunatic McCain: the larger issue is Murrica needs to talk about Vietnam--right now, especially. It's very helpful to an amnesiac nation to use this funny little thing called "memory," especially when it's busy repeating its old mistakes in a new part of the world.

[Razoor]

33. I dont understand mccain

I dont understand why mccain would Hug bush* and stump with him after what the shrub did to him in south carolina in 2000 talk about a flip flop right there! mccain just needs to withdraw his support from bush*
and quit complaining

[koopie57]

36. I think McCain and Dole

are going to wake up on Nov 3rd feeling very ashamed of themselves. There is something very sickening at seeing them and the other swift vote vets smearing Kerry like they are. I am ashamed of them and I suspect they feel shame too. I can't imagine a friend asking me to do something like that. And the icing on the cake is that they both understand what it feels like. I believe Bush has done similar stunts to both of them. They can never undo this.

[RivetJoint]

41. McCain is NOT smearing Kerry

He called the swift boat vets' add deplorable and called on them to take it off the air.

He may be a Republican, but I have a lot of respect for John McCain.

[saracat]

45. For what reason?

Are you from Arizona? Do you know what McCain Is really like? Do you know his voting record? Do you respect his voting record? His involvement with the Keating Five? His stealing the pensions of old folks? His dumping his wife to marry money? ( he really did it ,not like Kerry who had to sign a prenup! )Or perhaps you like his stabbing Kerry in the back now that he really needs his support. Notice he is no longer calling for the removal of the ads and is ever so subtly implying facts may be a matter of opinion, and that Bush is right in condemning "all" 527's. Tell me what you admire about McCain other than the fact he is a self serving ,two faced SOB, who happens to be a POW.

[RivetJoint]

48. McCain

Served admirably in the US Navy. He proved his heroism every single day he spent in that POW camp in North Vietnam. For that ALONE he has earned my respect. Has he made mistakes? Hell, yeah. So has every other human who has laked this Earth. I do respect aspects of his voting record. I respect his calls to cut out the pork and waste in the defense budget. I respect his calling for the Swift Boat adds to be ended. I respect him for TRYING to bring some type of civility back into politics. How is he stabbing Kerry in the back?

[saracat]

49. Defending him on one hand and backing off on another.

Have you seem him come to Kerry's defense recently? He has backed off, spouting the Bush mantra that all 527s are bad. He is willing to campaign with a man that deliberately destroyed a triple amputee Max Cleland. He is willing to stand with a man who lies about Kerry's war record. He is willing to stand behind a man who lied about McCain and his own family. He can still support Bush? He is a backstabber to not only Kerry and Cleland but himself. This is not "politics as usual" This is war and McCain is on the wrong side.I think his stand against his fellow vetrans, and if it is not in support of , it has to be interpeted as against, wipes out any of his wartime heroism.

[Tight_rope]

37. I'm tired of that war on Vietnam too...

[bluedog]

43. If McCain is sick.then he should PROVE

it and stop campaiging for bush and call bush out.......none of this behind the scenes crap......McCain must enjoy being crapped on and insulted...hes trying to play both sides for his own base in Az

[Surf Cowboy]

46. Perhaps he should grow a pair, stand up and be counted then.

[tlcandie]

47. If people don't want the past brought up .. then

1) They should not get into politics

2) The US should not do things as a country they don't want to discuss in the far distant future and have ripped apart with a fine tooth comb.

Pretty simple really. This catfight has gotten out of control not because of facts, but because of lies.

Now we can see fully what the wonderful world of US politics is all about with the gloves taken off when truth is not the ONLY means used in campaigns.

Truth in advertising should be made to apply to political advertisements as well as corporate advertisements.

On DemocracyNOW! yesterday, heard Kerry's speech that this SBV's keep pounding about him dismissing all the carnage of Vietnam. It's interesting that BEFORE he listed the types of carnage happening, he preceeded it with,

"In Congress members of the military have been testifying about the things that have and are continuing to happen in this war."

That was verbatim of course, but the point is he was not the one who brought this up nor implied anything against the veterans. He was just the face to put the blame on because he honorably and openly spoke (only after it was talked about elsewhere first) about the horrible acts to continue opening the eyes of the public to see past the propaganda.

At any rate, it is very interesting, sad, and very telling that political campaigns are now more about slight of hand than real issues.

[ArnoldLayne]

52. Well then quit kissing Bush's ass

and call him a liar for what he did to you 2000 election and a coward for his actions during the VietNam War. You should back Kerry for President as a fellow veteran like Dickhead Zell Miller whom I have no idea why is supporting AWOL Scumbag Coward Bush. They must have something on Zell Miller or are paying him alot of money for backing Bush.:mad: :mad:

[Geo55]

53. Typical "BULLY / WIMP" crap

THEY start the shit...get called on it ...then it's
"can we please move on and talk about something else?"