NY TIMES: Texan 'Ashamed' on Bush Role

[ruggerson]

The New York Times picked it up! :)

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/28/politics/campaign/28barnes.html

snip >>

HOUSTON, Aug. 27 - Ben Barnes, a former speaker of the Texas House who has said he got George W. Bush into the National Guard in 1968, told an audience of John Kerry supporters in Austin on May 27 that he was ashamed of his role.

"I walked through the Vietnam Memorial the other day," Mr. Barnes said, according to a videoclip posted on the Internet this summer, "and I looked at the names of people who died in Vietnam and I became more ashamed of myself than I've ever been because the worst thing I did was get a lot of wealthy supporters and a lot of people who had family names of importance into the Guard and I'm very sorry about that and I apologize to you and the voters of Texas."

snip >>>

[joanne]

1. About time we got stories like this!!

:bounce:

[NMDemDist2]

2. and the Pentagon spy story will knock it off the front pages

:smoke:

[w4rma]

48. Even if it didn't the headline is written vaguely. If you were only

reading headlines, you'd have no idea of the content of this story and would probably skip right over it.

[iamjoy]

3. This Is Sad...

This whole Vietnam thing.
When we pick on the National Guard, we impugn the honor of all men who served in it (my Stepfather was one). I know, Bush pulled strings for his assignment, but still...

Don't get me started on the Purple Hearts...I am so upset and disillusioned...

[Erika]

8. Bush Decided to Refight Nam with The Swift Boaters

But Bush never had the guts to fight them in the first place.

[sandnsea]

17. Oh that's a big smelly horse turd

We do not impugn the honor of all men who served in the Guard. The majority of those who got into the Guard during Nam were from privileged families. They all pulled strings to get into the Guard then, and if your stepdad was one of them, then that's the way it was.

[iamjoy]

24. No, My StepDad Didn't Pull Strings

He wasn't from a priveledged family, he was from a working middle class family. But, what is wrong with serving in the Guard?
Do you see what I'm saying? We criticize Bush for using family connections to secure a place in the Guard as if there is something less than honorable about serving in the Guard. I know for most people the distinction is the lack of honor was pulling strings, but it comes across as a criticism of serving in the Guard.

[luaneryder]

25. Nothing wrong with Guard service at all

It is the reason behind choosing the Guard when the country is at war and using political influence to prevent threat to life and limb. I don't know your step father's situation, but from my knowledge of Vietnam days and KyAng was used to avoid the draft. All of my middle to lower class male freind either went to Nam or Canada.

[llmart]

43. No one's saying that there's something wrong with serving in the Guard...

but I will tell you younger people this - people joined the Guard during the VietNam war for one reason and one reason only - to avoid being sent to war. It was not for some altruistic/patriotic reason.

[JoFerret]

46. And there was nothing wrong with doing whatever it took

to avoid service. It is the hypocrisy of avoiding service and then remaining either supportive of the war fought by others or apolitical about the issues.
There is still a Vietnaqm war to fight. Those who went fall into two broad catagories - those who believed it was a good war and are still in denial about some of the atrocities that took place (whether they committed them or not) and those who went and either began as disillusioned or who became so when they realised the truth. The facts are that unspeakable things were done in the name of the United States by those who wore its uniform. The reasons that is so are complex and not easily parsed into simplistic catagories of hero and villain. And the ultimate responsibility lies with those who set the policy and designed the strategies.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040828/ap_on_el_pr/bush_national_guard_3

Vote to keep the story alive.

[okasha]

47. Pulling Strings

There was and is nothing dishonorable about serving in the National Guard. Quite the contrary.

What was dishonorable in Bush's case was using his family political connections to leapfrog a long waiting list of more qualified candidates. I wonder if any of the names on that list are also on the wall.

Okasha

[leesa]

49. Surely you understand that many of these people specifically went into

the guard to avoid Vietnam. If they did it fairly there is zero problem with it. If they cheated like Bush did, there is a big problem with it.

[MODemocrat]

57. I criticize bush because he treats the Vietnam Vets disrespectful

I'll always think he's nothing but a spoiled rich kid who has every one else fighting his battles and doing his dirty work for him as he sets back and acts as if he doesn't know anything about it. I think he had a cushy job because of his old man's connections, and by the way, who else could have gone AWOL and still receive Veteram status?
Not many, for sure. I'll be your StepDad didn't go AWOL!
:thumbsdown: George W. Bush

[Zynx]

59. Bush pulled strings to get in so he wouldn't be drafted.

He jumped the waiting list unlike your Stepfather.

[llmart]

41. I have to differ with you.

My husband was in the National Guard and I was married to him at the time and he doesn't come from a "privileged family" and no one pulled any strings to get him in. I'll be honest with you, though, I couldn't swear by the circumstances, but if I remember correctly he stopped in the local base and they just happened to have an opening which he got. We were surprised as all hell but we were relieved. He had been to other branches of the reserves and told there were long waiting lists. This was 1971.

[NNN0LHI]

22. What honor does one gain by sending someone else to war to die for them?

Just curious iamjoy.

Don

[iamjoy]

26. It's All In Perspective

It's just a way of looking at it.
Some say that by Clinton not going to Vietnam, others went to die in his place. What - because he got a Rhodes Scholarship and his draft number was never pulled he is somehow a draft dodger? We all know that's rididculous.

My point was not to defend Bush, but to defend others who served in the National Guard. For the most part, service in the National Guard is honorable. What is dishonorable is to fail to complete that service. What is also dishonorable is for some one who served in the National Guard (or got other deferrments) to approve of attacks on the record of some one who was in the heat of battle.

[NNN0LHI]

28. Your comparison is not valid

Clinton never dressed up in a flight suit for a televised landing on an aircraft carrier while strutting his stuff as though he was some kind of war hero like Bush did. Do you see the difference?

Don

[iamjoy]

29. Yes I Do

Good point.
I see the difference, but how many people do you think may not see the difference?

That is why Kerry & the Democratic leadership should be cautious before embracing this guy because people who don't see the difference may take it as an insult on the National Guard. It's so unfair because so few people took the Swift Boat b.s. as an insult to all who received Purple Hearts. It's a double standard which sucks, but that seems to be the way things are with media spin, etc.

[Isere]

36. You are so right!

This is absolutely the issue we should be seizing on...above everything else!
This retrospective niggling over an enlistees war wounds and medals is utterly defamatory and demeaning to the entire military. The underpinnings are 100% political, but the end result is to cast doubt on every veteran.

Shame on them!

[bobbyboucher]

56. Don't repeat Repube talking points, thanks.

Nobody is picking on the National Guard, that is pure Repube horseshit. The point is that the warmonger avoided combat by getting put to the front of the line. He didn't deserve his place in the TANG. Nobody, and I mean nobody except Repugnicants are disparaging the Guard.

[Rose Siding]

4. Wow, they didn't even use a byline

Is that to avoid retaliation or a usual practice? I've never noticed it, other than for editorials.

[despairing optimist]

5. A Headline for Thursday's NYT: GOP Delegates Wearing Hair Shirts

as they cast their ballots for Bush/Cheney, deeply regretting the absence of alternatives. They could have taken the high road and simply walked out of Madison Square Garden in disgust, but they felt comfortable with voting and apologizing for it afterward.

When asked about their future plans, some delegates volunteered that they expected to find their consciences by the time they reached Ninth Avenue. Beyond that, it was pointless to speculate, they said.

[Pirate Smile]

6. Will anyone in the media make a big deal out of this:

"President Bush is on record as denying that family influence got him into the Guard."

Everyone knew he was lying when he said it, everyone knows he is lying when he says almost everything he says and it is treated like -well, it's just what he does. Big deal.

[fishwax]

7. No, no, no ... it's GORE

who always played fast and loose with the facts, remember? He invented the Internet and all that ...
:eyes:
:puke:

[GoddessOfGuinness]

9. This is the kind of story we need Media Blaster for...

Spam it to all of them, so they know there's a substantial portion of the population that feels this is big news!

[PA Democrat]

33. Yes, it is Bush's denial of using family influence to get into the Guard

that is the real story.

The speaker, Ben Barnes, intervened on Bush's behalf sometime in late 1967 or early 1968 at the request of a good friend of Bush's father, then a Republican congressman from Houston, the sources said. The friend, Sidney A. Adger, was a prominent Houston business executive who died in 1996. The Guard official contacted at his behest, Brig. Gen. James M. Rose, died in 1993.

Both Bush, now governor of Texas and front-runner for the Republican presidential nomination, and his father, the former president, say they did not ask for any help with Guard officials and have no knowledge of any assistance from Adger or anyone else.

"Gov. Bush did not need and did not ask anybody for help," said a Bush campaign spokesman, Scott McClellan. "President Bush has said he did not seek any help for his son in getting into the National Guard."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/wh2000/stories/barnes092199.htm

Yes, people just independently decided that W should not be sent to Vietnam, and pulled strings without being asked.


:eyes:

[fearnobush]

10. I heard him today on AAR, he was sturring up air and he has backers

, but of course, you won't see him on the TV. So called Liberal media only wants to book liars who are profiting from the destruction of a hero. And, who ever trained these dogs, needs to realize that if your train the entire pack to always be calm and relaxed looking, it looks real fake.

[AlCzervik]

11. Here is an article from 2000

Looks like Barnes has decided to take the gloves off, good for him.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/wh2000/stories/bush072899.htm

[PurityOfEssence]

12. There's a lot of stifled morality that has had about enough...

Many have seen this country become a darker, meaner and woeful place, and with any luck, there may be many more who come forward like this. Of course, the coarse cynicism will dismiss lots of this as mere political maneuvering, but life is by degrees, and many people have "had enough".

Whether this can sway the tide in the next two months is a different issue, but it does bode well on a cold, dark night...

[mondo joe]

13. MOVEON needs to put this guy in a commercial NOW

When I see Bush/Rove's dirty tactics I'm reminded of the scene in the Untouchables in which the Connery character explains how the battle has to be fought.

I can see why Kerry wouldn't do it. But MOVEON or some other group really ought to put this guy in a SMEARBOAT type ad.

"You wanna know how you do it? Here's how, they pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send on of his to the morgue! That's the Chicago way, and that's how you get Capone! Now do you want to do that? Are you ready to do that? "

[lebkuchen]

19. It's our media's responsibility to report it--it's a big story

Who else besides the NYTs is covering it?

[Guaranteed]

20. Yup. nt

[struggle4progress]

14. kick

:kick:

[Voltaire99]

15. When pimps know shame!

This is nice stuff, but not merely for the paltry reason that people can take another opportunity to say, See what a hero our guy is and what a slack-off phoney their guy is!

No, this reminds us of what Vietnam really was...

A monument to shame. A meat-grinder where the poor were sent to slaughter millions of innocents and die in the thousands themselves.

People getting jiggy with the Reporting For Duty rhetoric need to think about that.

[fizzana]

16. I hope we do see this in ads somewhere down the road

the gloves are off and we need to put Bush back on the defensive.

[montana_hazeleyes]

18. kick

:kick:

[0007]

21. Republican Congressman Ron Paul

Knocked junior and his programs two days ago on c-span.

[Manix]

23. .....apparently Rove thugs have some dirt on this guy, ready to spread.

[greenman3610]

27. how do you know?

[mrbill]

34. texas history 101, there was a bank scandal once........

google ben barnes - sharpstown.

[wishlist]

30. His statement backs up the Move.On ad claim of Bush's special deal

This will certainly make the rounds in the media. I am glad it came out now because it proves the truth of the Move.on ad about Bush's connections getting him preferential treatment in the Guard. I am hoping that during the convention some of the Dem commentators will bring it up.

[rfkrocks]

31. The simple truth about Vietnam

the rich and middle class kids could stay home and go to college or if they had connections go to the Guard and all others fought-our guy VOLUNTEERED for war service and risked his life-Bush,Cheney and Ashcroft all hid and let other men do the dying and killing for them-the whole bloody war lasted so long because not everyone was put at risk-we lost our collective risk so support of the war could be a cols academic idea-just like today-3 kids die in truck crashes in Iraqnam and it is hardly mentioned-they were from Iowa and what did they die for ? Hell, we can't answer this question because the President can't even say why-thanks for putting up the article

[NashVegas]

32. dupe

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=782404

[muchacho]

35. Proud Texan

I actually got a little teary when he apologized to Texas voters.

Hey George, this is what a man of character looks like!

[Judi Lynn]

42. He's reclaiming his self-respect. It's never too late. Good for him. n/t

[radfringe]

37. affirmative action for the priviledged

or should we call this type of "special" treatment affluent action?

[GaryL]

38. Moveon.org!

Are you listening? Commercial time. Let the media fight this one out too damn it! I get so sick of our side saying we don't do non-issue ads like this. We don't have to lie like they do!

[psychopomp]

39. KICK

[wishlist]

40. Yahoo has picked it up too

"Lawmaker regrets helping Bush get into Guard"

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040828/ap_on_el_pr/bush_national_guard&cid=694&ncid=1963&sid=96378798

[Judi Lynn]

44. It's getting good reviews, too!

In case people want to vote, here's the current count:

Its current average rating is 4.35 with 157 vote(s).

Very unusual. It'll get freeped as soon as the politically challenged know it's there.

[Honor Where Are You]

52. Everybody vote on this

All of us need to click a 5. Keep the Freeps down.

[ruggerson]

45. kick

[nonkultur]

50. How did he do it?

"I got a young man named George W. Bush in the National Guard when I was Lt. Gov. of Texas"

In 1969, Barnes was elected lieutenant governor of Texas and served from 1969 to 1973.


http://www.klru.org/texasmonthlytalks/archives/barnes/bio.asp (fixed)
http://www.utexas.edu/opa/news/00newsreleases/nr_200003/nr_barnes000301.html

Bush enlisted on 5/27/68

[Honor Where Are You]

53. Texas Monthly Link Broken

[Honor Where Are You]

54. Deleted by poster

[dArKeR]

51. Ex-Honcho: I Got Bush Into Guard - CBSWhore

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/07/09/politics/main628437.shtml

[Honor Where Are You]

55. The video here

http://69.59.167.160/media/Barnes%20on%20Vietnam%20RAW%20FEED.wmv

[agincourt]

58. Didn't mr shrub

later on when he was governator of texas, do some favors for a firm,that was connected with getting him in the texas ANG? I'd thought I'd read that in Greg Palast's book a time back. Basically a firm was mishandling the texas lottery, but shrub got them to keep their contract because some of their board members were connected with getting him into the TANG.