Jerusalem views 'spy' story as local US political fare

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1093674510956

Sources in Jerusalem vehemently denied any Israeli espionage in the US, terming as an "internal US political story" the reports that a mid-level Pentagon official is under investigation for allegedly passing classified material to AIPAC, which in turn passed it on to Israel.

"This is an American political story, an elections story, a pre-convention story to try and slander and criticize Bush, it has nothing to do with us," one source in Jerusalem said.

The sources said that the story, which broke on the eve of the Republican National Convention in New York, comes amid an attempt over the last few months to attack the neo-conservatives close to Bush, such as Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith and Elliot Abrams, and to create the impression that the neo-cons, many of whom are Jewish, led Bush into war in Iraq because it was good for Israel, and now are trying to do the same with Iran.

"This is part of the effort to find fault with Bush, and cast him as someone who is surrounded and controlled by Jewish Zionists," one official said.

<snip>

Let the spin begin.

[rawstory]

1. Once again, the conservative JPost

owned by, oh, hollinger? I don't believe it for a minute.

[brainshrub]

2. To be fair:

Why the heck would Israel NEED spies in the first place since they have the NeoCons spoon-feeding them all the info & influence they want?

[lapfog_1]

3. Uh,

those people(neocons) would be called SPIES.

So all you are stating is that it is conventional wisdom or
common knowledge that Israel / Neocons are working to a common
goal. BUT, it's one thing for policy makers to declare that we
are sharing intelligence and sensitive data with an ally, it's
another thing to do it without the official stamp of approval.

[aquart]

6. WHOSE official stamp of approval?

I'm trying to follow the roiled thinking here.

You are stating that the neocons are spies for a foreign nation. That IS what you are saying, right? That these people whom we at DU despise have sold out the interests of the American people to Israel.

I want to be absolutely plain. Is that what you're saying?

Now, assuming what you say to be true, WHO was the person or persons you insist is required to approve of this transfer of information in order for it not to be spying? Is that unclear? Who was in the dark who should have been informed? Of what should this person or persons been informed?

IF the person who needed to be informed was George, IF the person who needed to approve the transfer of sensitive info was George......do you get that the Jews have been jettisoned so that George can stand white, pure, and tall?

If it's an Israeli conspiracy BECAUSE George was in the dark, GEORGE IS FREE AND CLEAR.

Wake up; you're stepping in the whitewash.

[lapfog_1]

18. THAT is the key question

"whose official stamp of approval?"

IF the administration has a policy of sharing all policies,
intelligence and plans with a ME ally (Israel) THEN how can
anyone be accused of spying by simply carrying out the stated
policy. So the question is simply, WHAT is our policy with
regard to Israel? Are they the ultimate trusted ally, similar
to US and GB in WWII, or are their still state secrets? If
their are still state secrets (not shared with GB or Israel, for
example) then is what is alleged to have been shared fall into
the state secrets category? AND did the "spy" share this with
the knowledge of his superiors?

See, the real problem is, once you get high enough up in a
government, doing things like this is not really spying. It might
be treason, but it's not spying because the people who DETERMINE
what is secret and what is shared with others ARE the people
we are accusing of being spies. (Feith, for example, Wolfowitz
for sure)

[brainshrub]

8. Exactly.

Israel doesn't need a stamp of approval.

It's not that I'm into any big conspiracy; it's just that the Zionists know how to play our political system like a fiddle. Between the Fundamentalist Christian voting block, and Israel's unique position as attack-dog for the US in the middle-east, they have the political muscle to get away with pretty much anything.

Case in point:

http://www.ussliberty.org/

[henslee]

5. Because it is not enough. You want more. When you think you have

the morale high ground, you can justify anything. If this pans out and Israel is implicated, I wonder what it will do to Jewish American support for *. Strengthen it I bet, to compensate.

[aquart]

7. And you base your knowledge of American Jews on what, pray tell?

Did you have a kosher hot dog once?

[henslee]

23. No smarty pants but I have a kosher hot dog if you know what I mean

edited for anger.

[Malikshah]

17. True, but the Lavonne Affair, Pollard

Kind of throw a wrench into all of that.

Why does anyone need spies....we all do it to friends, allies, and enemies.

The point here is that if it deals with Iran and Iraq -- then that simply adds fuel to the fire.

The Arab world already views the US as Israel's water carrier.
European leaders and others will follow suit.

Sorry, but the old idea that sometimes the Mossad gets a little too exotic at times comes into play here.

The whacko anti-semitic types will use this to unjusifiably add to their list of bizarro bits

Those who are in the intel service will see it for what it is.

And anyone who makes too big a thing of it will be shot down as a conspiracy theorist or anti semite

Problem is-- if the allegations stick (espionage or mishandling of classified materials, etc)-- the point is that it IS a conspiracy and that it is a shitty thing to do on the part of the Likud government.

[Malva Zebrina]

4. the only thing to do is wait and see how it plays out.

If Bush is controlled by Jewish Zionists, we deserve to know it I would think. Much has been written by sober thoughtful analysts, about how Bush is surrounded by and controlled by Jewish Zionists. His actions are consistent with the thought of the PNAC. The office of the OSP was specifically set up so as to eliminate any other intelligence, except for those in Rumsfeld's inner Pentagon circle , the majority of whom seem to be Zionists.

This teaser is short on necessary information but we do know that there is evidence in the form of wire taps and videos and that should be plenty good enough for anybody to prove the case.

[aquart]

9. Yeah. Those people controlled Germany once, too.

They don't do it no more.

Jewish Zionists.

What is a Jewish NON-Zionist? One who rejoices at bus bombings?

Please define "Jewish Zionist." They seem to be despicable people and I want to know how to avoid them.

This slime usually doesn't show up till after midnight.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

11. Please take the chip from your shoulder.

All day long you have been viciously attacking anyone who says anything remotely critical of Israel.

It's like saying that anyone who says anything against The American Government du jour hates Christians.

Believe it or not, We are all pretty much on the same team here. We all have differing opinions. Vive la difference!

:grouphug:

[Joanne98]

12. You define Jewish Zionist

Are you saying there's no such thing. You act like we invented the term.

[Malva Zebrina]

16. I have read many many takes on this over the past weeks

and find that description in numerous, non bigoted articles, of those in Bush's government as the best there is. There is no, absolutely NOTHING derogatory about referring to Wolfowitz and Feith as Jewish Zionists. That is what they are and that is what they are described as, and correctly.

Lighten up.

[Malva Zebrina]

19. You are inflammatory and baiting.

your anger is misplaced and is being hurled at those of us who are posting in a reasonable manner.

If you are trying to stir up something , like a perceived anti-semitism, to pin on someone, I think you are overreacting and it is, to be honest, quite stale at this point.

There are numerous facts on the connections between the OSP,and those who work there, with Jewish Zionist thought. There are numerous facts about the PNAC and it's thought, with Jewish Zionism.

It is not in any conceivable way, anti-semitic to bring these facts into the conversation.

[Joanne98]

10. Bush is probably more controlled by Christian/Evangelical/Zionists

Who have aligned themselves with likud/settlements because they believe that all the Jews have to go back to Israel before fucking Jesus can come back.
Of course their plan includes damning Jews who don't convert to Hell. They're USING each other. One for land and the other for religious delusion.
The point is that we're all suffering for it and if you say anything people get offended.
So i guess I'll shut up. But i will say this. As far as I'm concerned Bush-loving Christians are a threat to our National Security. Because they're NUTS.

They're saying right now, "It's prophetized". Can't you hear them.

[Joanne98]

13. And yes there are Christian Zionist

they have signs that say that on their churches so i guess there is a zion word.

[MGKrebs]

14. I would like to know what kind of info was going the other way.

It's possible the real issue is fabricated intel being supplied to us from them. Rumors of Mossad forging the uranium documents. and check this out:

In the questioning of the picture painted by coalition intelligence, the third party in this intelligence failure, Israel, has remained in the shadows. And yet, Israeli intelligence was a full partner to the picture presented by American and British intelligence regarding Iraq's non-conventional capabilities. In addition to an exaggerated assessment of Iraqi capabilities, it was also assessed that the Iraqis were apt to use these capabilities against Israel.

Indeed, in the past Israel has been accused of disseminating false information that serves its own interests.

Moreover, a critical question to be answered is whether governmental bodies falsely manipulated the intelligence information in order to gain support for their decision to go to war in Iraq, while the real reasons for this decision were obfuscated or concealed.

Once the Bush administration decided to take action against Iraq, it was more difficult for Israel to maintain its position that dealing with Iraq was not the highest priority, especially when it was obvious that the war would serve Israel's interests. Considering the circumstances, it would therefore be difficult to expect the Israeli government to express its doubts - if any - about Iraq's capabilities.

http://www.tau.ac.il/jcss/sa/v6n3p3Bro.html

[Joanne98]

20. Dealing with Iraq might not have been Irsrael's highest interest BUT

Nobody can say it wasn't in their interest. One of the first things we did was open the Haifa oil pipeline that had been shut down for years. Israel had been forced to get most of it's oil from Russia. Geo-politics is really iffy. Everybody is out for themselves changing aliances when they have too. What I don't like about the US/Israeli relationship is GAWD. The "holy" crap has got to go.

[Democat]

15. The country accused of spying says it's not true?

Who would have expected that?

I wonder what Scott Peterson has to say about it? :)

[Joanne98]

21. And if there wasn't enough to hate the Likud for, there's this.....

THE COUNCIL FOR NATIONAL POLICY........

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/28/politics/campaign/28c...

August 28, 2004

Club of the Most Powerful Gathers in Strictest Privacy

By DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK

Three times a year for 23 years, a little-known club of a few hundred of the most powerful conservatives in the country have met behind closed doors at undisclosed locations for a confidential conference, the Council for National Policy, to strategize about how to turn the country to the right.

Details are closely guarded.

"The media should not know when or where we meet or who takes part in our programs, before of after a meeting," a list of rules obtained by The New York Times advises the attendees.

The membership list is "strictly confidential." Guests may attend "only with the unanimous approval of the executive committee." In e-mail messages to one another, members are instructed not to refer to the organization by name, to protect against leaks.

This week, before the Republican convention, the members quietly convened in New York, holding their latest meeting almost in plain sight, at the Plaza Hotel, for what a participant called "a pep rally" to re-elect President Bush.

The Neo-Cons are there, believe me.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

22. The link is to a "Page not found."

?

[illiteratepresident]

24. Israel, earth's little shop of policy horrors

THIS ADMINISTRATION HAS TO BE STOPPED. While the depths of Israeli infiltration into our governement trasnscend political party, this adminsitration and its neoconservative cabal http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/index.html
have raised the bar for accepting those who are "dually loyal." It is time for people to learn the TRUTH about Israel. http://www.ifamericansknew.org /

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A40004-20...
FBI Probe Targets Pentagon Official
Analyst Allegedly Gave Data to Israel

By Bradley Graham and Thomas E. Ricks
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, August 28, 2004; Page A01

The FBI is investigating a mid-level Pentagon official who specializes in Iranian affairs for allegedly passing classified information to Israel, and arrests in the case could come as early as next week, officials at the Pentagon and other government agencies said last night.

The name of the person under investigation was not officially released, but two sources identified him as Larry Franklin. He was described as a desk officer in the Pentagon's Near East and South Asia Bureau, one of six regional policy sections. Franklin worked at the Defense Intelligence Agency before moving to the Pentagon's policy branch three years ago and is nearing retirement, the officials said. Franklin could not be located for comment last night.
This guy just wasnt riding a desk, he was NEGOTIATING with Iranians per Sydney Morning Herald. How many of our problems are manufactured in Tel Aviv?? First, DUMP BUSH and his zionist-filled defense cable

http://www.antiwar.com/gancarski/?articleid=476
Sydney Morning Herald entitled "Arms Dealers in Talks with US Officials about Iran." The SMH dispatch reported the claim that "Administration officials said at least two Pentagon officials working for the Undersecretary of Defense for Policy, Douglas Feith, have held "several" meetings with Manucher Ghorbanifar, the Iranian middleman in United States arms-for-hostage shipments to Iran in the mid-1980s." Along the same lines, a "senior Administration official identified two of the Defense officials who met Mr Ghorbanifar as Harold Rhode, Mr Feith's top Middle East specialist, and Larry Franklin, a Defence Intelligence Agency analyst on loan to the undersecretary's office."

This BULLSH*T has been going on for years. All the while we PAY for it by giving Israel 2.5% of their GDP every year, fully 1/3 of our foreign aid budget. Then we sprinkle on top some UN vetoes for good flava and the enmity of the world and Osama Bin Laden:
http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/watch/Policywatch/po...

Israel

As al-Qaeda grew out of the Afghan mujahedin in the late 1980s, differences developed between bin Laden and Abdullah Azzam, the co-founder of Maktab al Khidmat (Afghan Services Bureau), an al-Qaeda precursor. Azzam, a Palestinian, favored focusing future operations against Israel, while bin Laden viewed Israel as a secondary enemy behind America, seeing the latter as the "head of the snake."
http://www.jewishsf.com/content/2-0-/module/displaystor...

Friday February 2, 1996

Pentagon lambasted by ADL for doubting Jews' U.S. loyalty

MATTHEW DORF
Jewish Telegraphic Agency

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Under fire from the Anti-Defamation League, the Department of Defense has repudiated a memo by its security agency warning government contractors that "strong ethnic ties" to American Jews allow Israel to steal military and industrial secrets "aggressively."

A low-level field official in upstate New York issued a confidential memo to defense contractors in October putting them on alert for Israeli espionage.

"The strong ethnic ties to Israel present in the U.S., coupled with aggressive and extremely competent intelligence personnel, has resulted in a very productive collection effort," the three-page memo states.

After the memo's existence was first reported in the February issue of the Jewish monthly magazine Moment, the Defense Department went public with its disdain for the memo.

"I want to stress that the content of this document does not reflect the official position of the Department of Defense," Assistant Secretary of Defense Emmett Paige Jr. wrote to Abraham Foxman, the ADL's national director.

"While we object to the document in general, singling out ethnicity as a matter of counterintelligence vulnerability is particularly repugnant to the department," he wrote.

The department stopped distribution of the memo in December and, as a result of the public outcry, has "canceled" the memo.

In a letter to the department, Foxman had chastised it for singling out Israel and its strong ethnic ties in the United States.

"This is a distressing charge which impugns American Jews and borders on anti-Semitism," Foxman wrote.

"In addition, we are disturbed by the general tenor of the memorandum considering the fact that Israel is America's longtime ally, considering the fact that only five years ago Israel refrained from taking military steps against Iraq despite Scud missile attacks because its U.S. ally asked for restraint."

Foxman called the department's response "the beginning, but not the answer."

"To issue a blip that the memo was canceled doesn't mean anything" unless there is a new memo sent detailing the department's policy, Foxman said.

_________________________________________________

AIPAC is on the Fortune 25 list as the 4th largest PAC. But in fact, it is not a politcal action comimitee at all. "PAC" stand for 'Public Affairs Commitee" and they have used legal strucutres to avoid transparency that is required of such institutions. It is an absolute travesty:
The late Barney Barnett had set up the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, or AIPAC, the highly effective pro-Israel lobby. Barnett advised setting up the Foundation's PAC and its lobbying arm as separate entities. Fortune lists AIPAC as the 4th largest and most influential PAC in the country, yet this group has crafted a way to keep all their finances and activities completely hidden from public view! How can that be acceptable?!
http://www.aipac.org/documents/Topner.html
http://www.inminds.co.uk/boycott-news-0010.html (Pardon the anti-semitic site, but the info is so hard to find, this is about the only source I can cite without a Litany of links)

LENGTHY THREAD ON Israeli SPIES:

http://news.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=&action=m&board=...

It's BEEN GOING ON

all but the reporting....

Then tell your congressman you are SICK OF IT - sick of the lying media, sick of the demonizing of the the occupied palestinains, sick of the label Terrorists, sick of the spying, sick of the expenditire of 1 in 3 of our foreign aid dollar sot a country that it earth's little shop of policy horrors...the teachers for torture at abu ghraib...http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3863235.stm
http://www.middleeast.org/mabarticles/5-05-04.html

Just the FACTS folks...

http://www.indybay.org/news/2003/06/1620694.php