McCain Says Kerry's Anti-War Protests Open for Debate (Face The Nation)

[Khephra]

Aug. 29 (Bloomberg) -- Republican U.S. Senator John McCain said Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry's anti-war activities after he returned from Vietnam are an appropriate subject for political debate.

McCain, 68, of Arizona, said on the CBS News program ``Face the Nation,'' that he disagreed with Kerry throwing his ribbons from his medals on the steps of the U.S. Capitol when he returned from the war.

``Every American is entitled to protest,'' McCain said. ``Whether he did that appropriately'' is a legitimate subject for debate, he said.

snip...

Kerry's service in combat shouldn't be questioned, McCain said. ``I know for a fact that when combat takes place, it's the most confusing and controversial situation,'' he said. ``Nobody ever remembers exactly what happens in combat.''

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=a7sbD2UoL6r8&refer=top_world_news

[question everything]

1. He also expressed his support for the "sanctity of heterosexual marriage"

You mean, like Reagan's, Dole's, Gramm's - all presidential candidates - Pete Wilson's Gingrich's and others'? Not to mention all the Wall Street bankers who are big contributors to the GOP and reward themselves with trophy wives?

[oly]

2. Not hard to figure out the next smear wave, is it?

[rocktivity]

3. It's not OK to debate his service, but it IS OK to debate his protests?

That must mean that it's okay to debate the way Bush slimed McCain four years ago. Kerry, START RUNNING THAT COMMERCIAL AGAIN!!!

:headbang:
rocknation

[lottie244]

36. The entire Viet Nam war is open for debate and I think the opposition

was correct! A needless, useless, costly war. We deal with the government of Viet Nam every day now and their being communists makes no difference just as it makes no difference in dealing with China. The only place where any socio-economic system seems to make a difference is in Cuba and they are not even communists...they are socialists!! How screwed up can we get?

[glarius]

4. McCain has NO guts or credibility

He and his family were disgustingly smeared by the Bush people during the 2000 election, and yet he is now actually saying that Bush is an honourable man and is working hard for Bush's re-election.....I think that is appalling.

[EST]

9. Whatever his ethical condition is,

McCain has been weak on strategy, medium on tactics. Repeatedly, he's allowed himself to be finessed by both sides, and now, in order to retain his seat and be in any position to affect future policy, he has to come out strong enough to get the folks back home to reelect him. If Bush gets back in, mcC has a good chance, otherwise, his chances go further down. IMO he has no chance of a presidential bid in '08--too much baggage and no big fingerprints on large issues. If anything else happens, he's back to tending his window planters. I can't see anything salvageable four years from now; of course, he'll have KKKarl as a pet then, so, who knows...?

[July]

5. So we're never going to talk about Iraq, the economy, Abu Ghraib, etc.?

How long is this going to go on?

[oly]

6. BTW, McCain said last week that he spent the last

30 years healing the wounds of Viet Nam. I guess that all the so-called Repug character that McCain is supposed too have rubs right off when one is desperate to be president. He realizes that he has but one chance left in '08 and keeping as many Bush crazies in the fold might be the best way to get there. Selling out a friend is aceptable is such a case. About the saddest character I come accross in a long time.

[TahitiNut]

7. "Nobody ever remembers exactly what happens in combat.''

This is VERY true. From relatively limited experience, I can say that, for me, it's a bizarre collection of images (snapshots) and short memory 'clips.' I don't remember remembering much more, but I remember deliberately forgetting and trying to emotionally 'process' the nightmares for years after coming back - nightmares in which the experiences in 'Nam were commingled with the experiences of 'coming home.' I can only vaguely imagine what it's like for those for whom such experiences were far more frequent. Even the lower-key ordinary experiences of being awakened at night and scrambling to take cover in the bunkers, or spending interminable hours at night on perimeter guard, seem to lose definition and become a hodge-podge of mental vignettes.

I think I'm glad this is so. Dunno. :shrug:

[schultzee]

8. McCain wants the 527s banned because we are using them too

and he made that remark about Soros. What are we going to do if ***** is in the white house for 4 more years. What?

[expatriot]

10. OMG! McCain is leaving a crack open for SBVT credibility...

by saying... 'Nobody ever remembers exactly what happens in combat'

he is leaving the door open as to whose side the 'truth' is on.

[iamjoy]

17. I Thought The Exact Same Thing

Except, Kerry's records are posted on his website.
Look at it this way, McCain is also giving Kerry a smooth exit for being caught in an inconsistency about the whole mission Nixon sent him on to Cambodia. He is trying to heal and move past the whole medal controversy which only tears open old wounds for veterans.

[Toots]

43. No I think he is closing the door

The reports were written at the time when memories were a fresh as they could get. What he is saying IMO is that after a period of time things are a bit hazy and can't be relied upon. The official reports and records are the very best account of events and they all back Kerry.

[Fridays Child]

11. It's amazing how the national recollection of Vietnam is now filtered...

...through the pseudo-patriotism of 9-11. We all knew that our involvement in Vietnam was wrong, and John Kerry was one of the very few who had truly earned the right and the credibility to protest it.

But, if they really want to go down that road, Bush himself has called Kerry heroic. And Cheney, as we all know, gave not one second of service to his country, in the Vietnam era, because he had "other priorities."

And to the argument that, by his anti-war activities, Kerry endangered the soldiers still in Vietnam: those brave men were placed in harm's way by their own government--not by John Kerry.

[liberalpragmatist]

12. I dunno, I actually kind of agree with him

I'd be less outraged if the SBVFT were merely attacking Kerry's antiwar record. I'd strongly disagree with them - the Vietnam War was immoral and wrong, cost tens of thousands of American lives, millions of Vietnamese lives (all needlessly), and came with tremendous amounts of well-documented atrocities.

If that's the debate we were actually having, whether the war was immoral or not and if it was right to protest it, that'd be a very nasty but important debate about the limits of US power and the appropriateness of US actions. And frankly, I think we would come out of it better than the Cons b/c our claims are well-documented and the fact is that the Conservatives seem mostly to be against protesting the war not saying that no atrocities actually happened. That's a debate that would be useful.

[loyalsister]

14. You bet

--- According to the choir. Things don't always follow logic, however. That's why people believe Iraq was a legitimate target after 9\11. There is no way the public is ready to rethink Vietnam after they have bought into that BS. I have had conversations with some very liberal people who will justify our going into Iraq because of the public's disposition regarding Vietnam.
It won't work. McCain knows all about it.

[CrazyAtheist]

16. It would be a good debate

If Kerry can steer it to whether the Vietnam war was a mistake, he will have the vast majority of the nation agreeing with him.

[goclark]

13. Casper is getting his VP candidate ready

He is the biggest turn coat I have seen in a while!
I'll put him up there with Dole.

I never trusted him for one minute.

No Democrat should trust him.
Not Clinton
Not Kerry
NONE

[oly]

19. I hope you are wrong. My 3 October surprises that Bush might

try -- Red alert the afternoon of election day on the West coast to get CA electoral votes, bomb Iran and McCain as VP -- I think are all somewhat remote. McCain as VP still makes little sense to me as I've posted before, but in the back of my mind, I think -- would Bush screw over Jeb in '08? Maybe he would. Maybe that was the deal Bush made with McCain. I'm getting paranoid or am I paranoid?

[goclark]

27. I believe they will put McCain in this week

I know,I know, I'm crazy but I feel it in my bones.

Check it out...
McCain tries to be nicey nicey to Kerry.
Kerry believes that McCain s his friend.
Then McCain comes out and supports Kerry's military service.
Most liberals start thinking McCain is a good,moderate Republican.

Then McCain hugs Bush close.
It was so disgusting.
But,that made Rethugs think that McCain was in their back pocket.

Then McCain plays match maker between Bush and Kerry to get them to stop with the Ads bashing.

Kerry comes into line and so does Bush almost.

Now McCain thinks that he holds a lot of power. That makes Casper happy. He wants to be President so much that he can taste it.

Now, Cheney is fading into the back world quickly. They don't really need him anymore because Bush Sr. has already trained other neocons to pull Chimp's strings.

So--- Cheney comes out with the outing support for his daughter. That makes the Religious Right uneasy. He starts to look really pale.
And, remember that his plane came really close to another plane a few weeks ago.

He sees the handwriting on the wall. He is toast

Bye, Bye FU, bye bye

Even off of the ticket, he can be a "Senior Adviser."

This is the only way the GOP can win this election. They have got to make a positive move to show they are getting rid of a neocon.

[oly]

30. I think you may be right. McCain wants to be president.

He would certainly support Bush actively in '04. He would certainly want to be VP. He would not want to run against a Dem incumbent in '08. Maybe Bush thinks, win or lose, Jeb can push McCain out -- Jeb can always re-point out that McCain is insane from POW days, he ratted on his buds in POW days, he's a liberal, he fathered a black child, he has wife with a drug problem. SOP for the F'ing Bush family.

[Dr Fate]

15. The subject being: "what candiates did when they were not in Vietnam..."

Cool, we can talk about AWOL then.

[Democat]

18. Will Kerry stop kissing McCain's ass now?

Does anyone get the feeling that the Republicans are playing our side for suckers, again?

[PROGRESSIVE1]

22. Yes and Kerry needs to tell McKKKain to Cheney himself!

McCain is our enemy!!!

[delete_bush]

20. I think Kerry is missing the Swift Boat by not

talking more about his activities after leaving Vietnam. The repukes have once again done one of the few things they're actually good at, which is to lump the sum of a person or a group together, then attack one aspect of the person or group. As the fundy type of "thinking" is only black and white they succeed in their attempt (with some) to discredit their target.

Kerry has stated within the last several months that the language he used describing atrocities in Vietnam was a little over the top. IMHO he should mention that he left the Vietnam Veterans group because of their increasing radicalism but was still convinced that OUR government was lying about the war and that we needed to get out.

He could say that he realizes now that what he said then was hurtful to many veterans and to the extent they were offended he apologizes. His goal was to ensure that the draft-age friends and relatives of those who were fighting be spared the horrors of war, which certainly would have been the case had the war progressed.

He would then be free to mention that Dick Cheney should be grateful for those who opposed and put pressure on the government to end the war. If not for their efforts, Cheney might not have been able to get a 6th deferment, at which time he would have had to put his fat ass on the line, along with the rest of the chickenhawks.

Rush in combat? Instead of his golden EIB mic, Oxy would have a permanent golden wet spot running down his leg, and a pair of undies that match his brownshirt.

[amandabeech]

42. Very well said, Delete_Bush n/t

[bluedog]

21. I'll say it again

McCain is a self centered little scum bag who uses both sides for his advantage..he always has and always will.....I.was wondering why he wasn't on the past few weeks on the talk shows...hes buttering his ass for bush..........talks out of both sides of his mouth.nothing but a weasel

[dennis4868]

35. when McCain...

was attacked in 2000 for letting his country down while in Vietnam, Kerry and other congressional vets came to his defense without any caveats....they all, including Kerry, blasted Bush and his pig vomet campaign team for ewhat they did to McCain....now we all know the true McCain...a selfish scumbag!

[SammyWinstonJack]

38. a selfish scumbag

Perfect description of most if not all republicans...imo

[Cha]

40. somebody should point this out to mccain...

he seems to have forgotten.

[CookieD]

23. What an amazing hypocrite! Remember in April 2004 ...

... NJ Sen. Frank Lautenberg called Bush and Cheney chickenhawks because they didn't serve in Vietnam? McCain stepped forward to defend Bush and Cheney and said we should put the Vietnam issue to rest. Once and for all, you CANNOT trust McCain!


Defending Kerry, senator blasts 'chickenhawks'
Lautenberg criticizes Cheney for questioning record
Wednesday, April 28, 2004 Posted: 4:25 PM EDT (2025 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- U.S. Sen. Frank Lautenberg on Wednesday called Vice President Dick Cheney "the lead chickenhawk" against Sen. John Kerry and criticized other Republicans for questioning the Democratic presidential contender's military credentials.

But Sen. John McCain, a decorated war hero and former prisoner of war, scolded Lautenberg for attacking the Bush administration during the Iraq conflict and said it was time to "declare that the Vietnam War is over."

Rest of the story:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/28/lautenberg.kerry/

[bluedog]

24. Moveon.....please pick up the McCain ad

this shows that McCain also thought bush was behind his smear campaigns........Kerry thought he was being "NICE" to a friend.....but this friend is going to come back and bite him in the ass.......RUN THE AD

[Democat]

25. McCain: Vietnam war is over, unless you want to attack Kerry, then it's ok

Hypocritical McCain.

[young_at_heart]

26. Kerry's protests were a GOOD thing

He and others caused the horrible war to end earlier than it would have. What exactly is an "appropriate" protest for a war that should have never been in the first place? I suppose McCain would approve of letters to the editor.......but would that have brought it to a close as fast as testimony?

[Kimber Scott]

28. Who decides what is an "appropriate" protest?

nt

[The_Casual_Observer]

29. Kerry probably saved the bastards life

by helping end the war and get him freed. I don't understand the belief that the Viet Nam war was somehow just and sanctioned by god.

[Disturbed]

31. Disgusting, pitiful and pathetic

Add your own caption to this photo.

[EST]

33. How 'bout-

Mmmm you smell nice...remember last night?

Or Bush is saying,"Really folks, his is about this long."

[flaminbats]

32. so is the question of whether McCain should have been left in Vietnam..

after all who needs a backstabbing POW who doesn't give a shit about others left in Vietnam?

At least Kerry helped bring the war to an end, but McCain clearly wanted more American prisoners to be captured and tortured in Vietnam. And now he and shrub hope this happens to our soldiers in Iraq!

[dennis4868]

34. Hey McCain...

what about your boy George's military record? Does it concern you that when you were in harms way in nam your boy Georgie was snorting away?

[Karenina]

37. Kerry WENT

and came back anti-war. He, as so many of the kids who come back and tell you they are being sacrificed NOW-TODAY to protect *big-biz interests, is telling the TRUTH. He needn't apologize for not wanting ANY of his contemporaries to be the last man to die for a LIE.

And *WHERE WAS THE DAUPHIN??? Posing for a photographer to show off ribbons he didn't EARN? What has this *pos EVER EARNED in his miserable failure of a life?

[Cha]

39. Kerry Should put the mccain/stupid ad

up again..fuck mccain.

[Supersedeas]

41. Would McCain also say how Bush managed entry into TANG open

for National Debate.

Nah, don't think so. Let's get back to how National Fiscal Policy can be further eroded--180 McCain.

Integrity dismissed.