France sticks to headscarf law

[Nambe]

The Associated Press

FRANCE will not revoke a law banning Muslim headscarves in public schools despite demands by a militant Islamic group holding two French journalists hostage in Iraq, the government spokesman said today.

"The law will be applied," Jean-Francois Cope told Canal Plus television today, saying the nation would not compromise its national values in the pursuit of winning the hostages' release.

[SoCalDem]

1. France may just have to RE-validate their secular country stance

and ask those who choose not to abide...to leave..

Religion and politics is such a toxic combination, and a small place like France is in a precarious position...

I know it's "only a headscarf", but some her would say.."it's only a KKK hood" or a "swastika".. Objects REPRESENT things that can be very controversial..

If France forbade mosques, or Islamic teaching, that would be bad, but I can honestly see how separating kids into religious groups in PUBLIC school is dangerous in the world we live in..

As I have read, the Koran only states that women should dress modestly...it does NOT say they must cover their hair/heads/bodies..

Modesty evolves too..

The families who follow an extreme version, should have the optioon to either homeschool or send their girls to Islamic schools..

I must admit, I don't know much about the Muslims in France.. Did they mostly migrate from Algeria during/after the war???

[DrWeird]

2. How would you feel if you were forced to expose your breasts..

in public schools.

I only ask because in some more backwards, fundamentalist countries, there are laws forcing women to cover their breasts in public. Some people say that it's just part of their culture. But it's really a way for the men in these societies to keep their women oppressed. It should really be required that if girls want to get public education, they should not be allowed to wear traditional covering on their breasts, they should proudly expose themselves to everybody. Some of these girls may argue against it, but it's for they're own good. Usually it's just the girl's father who wants to keep them covered up anyways.

[SoCalDem]

3. Culture and religion.. thorny issues

I don't think there is a "solution" to religious intrusion in public life..

It would be nice to go back to the days when people were satisfied to practice their faiths without expecting everyone else to "notice" them..

There are people I have known my WHOLE life, and I couldn't tell you what faith they were.. I assume that they are of many faiths, but it's not something that any of us are interested in knowing about.. We know each other as friends...just people... not as catholics, jews,or whatever..

That recognition of people...as people FIRST..should be the goal.. Who they worship as a family is THEIR business..not MINE..

[DrWeird]

4. Well sure.

It would also be nice to go back to the days where liberals thought it should be OK for somebody to wear whatever they want, as long as it doesn't harm other peoples rights.

As opposed to, say, inacting legislation which when you honestly get down to it is about selective enforcement and the scape-goating of a religious minority because 19 out of one billion did something terrible that made you shit your pants.

[Spentastic]

5. Hmmm

Alternatively what happened to those on the left's ability to criticise practices that actually profoundly anti liberal?

The imposition of religious ideas / dress on a secular society is not something I would expect liberals to be jumping to the defence of. The idea that people would be willing to kill to ensure that a headscarf can be worn strikes me as utterly insane.

This ban on headscarves (which of course it actually isn't, it's all religious symbols) is an attempt by the French to ensure that those attending public institutions respect the secular nature of those institutions. Furthermore, it has the benefit of freeing certain groups from pressure to conform to rules that may be imposed upon them.

To conflate this legislation with 9/11 is utterly disingenuous. The French have identified an issue with the integration of immigrant populations. This was manifest way before 9/11. Maybe, just maybe the world does not revolve around the U.S.

The French have a long history where secularism in public life is a central principle. I support their attempts to ensure that public life remains free of such faith based interference.

[Vladimir]

9. The problem is that it isn't all symbols

I would agree with you, if this was a ban on all religious symbols full stop, then I would have no problem with it (I love France's secular tradition). But Christian symbols will still be allowed if they are inconspicuous... it seems wrong to me that Muslim symbols should be discriminated against just because they are more conspicuous than Christian ones.

[DrWeird]

18. But the hajib in not anti-liberal.

Not anymore than the brazzeire is.

To deny that this is anything less then anti-islamic bigotry is just plain ignorance.

[radwriter0555]

10. Religion has no place in public schools. Once again France sets the

example which we should follow.

If your religion is silly and arcane enough to be baring breasts, then keep your children at home where they won't offend or be offended.

[DrWeird]

17. Yes, but religious people should be in public schools.

Along with everybody else. They shouldn't be persecuted out of schools.

And way to miss the analogy, btw.

[Nambe]

6. Headscarfs asside, is this a good tactical move from Iraq.

What bennefit is it for them to alienate a country that has refused to comply with the US in the occupation. For that matter is this the time to drive a wedge between the arabs in france from those that oppose the headscarfs. It seem to be a very bad move at a very bad time. Not to mention the benefit bush will gain.

[Kellanved]

7. yup; meddling into internal affairs of other nations

is a strange move for people fighting against foreign meddling onto their country.

[Vladimir]

8. I don't think the Iraqi resistance and Mr Al-Sadr

have anything to do with this...

[Radius]

12. French Reporter

Was kidnapped, his ransom was the headscarf law. Which covers yammulkas(sp) and conspicous christian symbols. France has a long christian heritage. wearing a small cross is not un common.

My opinion is that when in rome..If you visit the Magic Kingdom you are forced to wear headcover, if you are a woman that is.

There has been concern in france with the muslim minorities failure to integrate into french society. Attacks on women, no not just jewish women, and jews are attributed to this.

lemonde has good articles if you care to translate. lemonde is center-left, simialr to salon.

[Vladimir]

13. Truth be told I am rather indifferent to the whole thing

being an atheist/secularist myself. Nontheless it seems to me a measure that does discriminate, by virtue of this conspicuous inconspicuous business. I would be much happier with a rule of no religious symbols, full stop, no exceptions.

As for this integration business, the same argument is often advanced in England. In my experience, talk of integration is just another expression by the government of their fear of 'an other'. No one cares that I live in England but don't support the national team at football, have a communist flag in my window, rave against the Empire and Christianity at every turn etc. No one cares because I am white, and a man, and thus a socially acceptable dissenter. If I was brown, I would be failing to integrate. That's the difference.

[Laughing Mirror]

15. I don't either, in fact, what do we know about the kidnappers

other than they call themselves the Islamic Army in Iraq? All the major Muslim organizations in France (even some who are opposed to the French law) have condemned the kidnapping.

Hmmm ...

[TahitiNut]

11. It also applies to Jewish yarmulkes and Sikh turbans.

Such attire is not theological. Such attire is designed to identify and pervasively segregate 'believers' from 'non-believers.' This is, for most of history, the secularization of religion - intended to exert a secular control by the in-place religious leadership.

It can be regarded as a "turf war" - an appropriate response by the duly-elected civil authority which, in effect, says "render unto Caesar" and "keep your bloody paws off secular sovereignty."

[Gin]

14. I agree with France on this issue.

g

[Flagg]

16. Beheading 2 Frenchmen on the RNC opening day

interesting....