John McCain: The liberation of Iraq was necessary and noble

[Nambe]

Independent Digital (UK) Ltd

.. President Bush made the difficult decision to liberate Iraq. Those who criticise that would have us believe the choice was between a status quo that was well enough left alone and war. But there was no status quo to be left alone. Our choice wasn't between a benign status quo and the bloodshed of war. It was between war and a graver threat. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. We couldn't afford the risk posed by an unconstrained Saddam in these dangerous times.

I believe as strongly today as ever, the mission was necessary, achievable and noble. For his determination to undertake it, and for his resolve to see it through to a just end, President Bush deserves not only our support, but our admiration.

[Dickie Flatt]

1. Whoa! Didn't see that coming!

:eyes:

[truthisfreedom]

2. unconstrained saddam. hmm. i thought the weasel was contained and had

no WMDs? what about the weasels who are uncontained, crazy, and have nukes? like that N.Korean dude, mr. mccain?

[Inland]

9. And inspectors, and no fly zones, and an embargo and ind/ Kurds

If Saddam was so unrestrained, how come it took as much time to defeat him as it would to drive from Kuwait to Bagdad with a stop for lunch at Denny's?

We didn't attack Saddam because he was dangerous. Really dangerous countries are like North Korea. We attacked him because he was weak and available.

[Art_from_Ark]

40. North Korea is practically as overblown as Iraq was

The countries to REALLY keep an eye on include China, Russia, and that wheeler-dealer in nuclear weapons technology, Pakistan

[Parche]

3. mc ain

I always admire F-Wads that illegaly invaded other countries
without being attacked themselves

[AP]

4. In the abstract, liberation is always noble. However, when I look at Iraq

today, I don't see much liberation.

This is like saying "air helps you breathe" in a closed room filling with carbon monoxide. McCain is saying something obviously true, but it's describing what people in Iraq need and not what they're getting.

They live in an American protectorate, do not have their own elected government, couldn't ask the US to leave if they wanted to, and have no jobs and lots of misery.

Thanks John for telling us that air helps you breathe.

[amber dog democrat]

6. If this is nobility i would hate to see what ignmany looks like.

I am certain it is far less pretty.

[AP]

5. By the way, how long after the US liberated Europe from Nazis did Euro-

peans continue fighting the US? How long after the US show up did France have a country run by themselves rather than run miserably by Americans?

[Lisa]

10. according to Biddiscombe's "Werwolf!" (1998)

... which looks at Nazi resistance to the Allies, 1944-1946 --
curfews and travel regulations in most of Germany ended by late 1945. At that time, the Americans had a ratio of 90 soldiers per 10,000 German civilians. (In British-controlled areas it was 66, while the French had 118.) I don't know how this compares to the present deployment in Iraq.

Resistance activity peaked in the spring of 1945. At the end of that year, there were still scattered incidents of sabotage, though mostly this involved things like cutting communication lines or leaving obstructions in roads. Arson and sniping (directed at Allied troops or Germans working with the new government) were much less common. In the summer of 1945, a police chief and a Berlin banker were murdered by Nazi "Werwolves", and in Bavaria there were several political assassinations through 1946. In the Soviet zone of Berlin, there was a bombing in 1946 (no fatalities). As a matter of interest, from Feb-July 1945 almost 190 US troops were killed by liquor which had been contaminated (e.g. with methyl alcohol), though not all of these incidents were deliberate poisonings.

But even though the Nazis kept up vandalism for several years after the war, it doesn't sound like they inflicted anything near the number of casualties we're seeing in Iraq, 16 months after "Mission Accomplished".

[AP]

14. Well, that's pretty revealing. I guess people like to be liberated FROM

fascism a lot more than they like being liberated INTO fascism.

[LynnTheDem]

33. More bullshit

NOT ONE SINGLE SOLDIER was killed by enemy resistance after WWII ended.

NOT ONE.

Coulter loves to spout on about the "werewolves" too; it's all total bullshit.

[Lisa]

43. I can't imagine Coulter and Co. referencing that book ...

The situations it describes only seem to underscore how different the occupation of Europe was, from what's going on in Iraq right now. The historian who wrote it teaches in the building next door from me -- he researched French, English, and Soviet military records meticulously. (The book's put out by the University of Toronto Press, which isn't exactly a hotbed of neo-conservatism.) The resistance in Iraq is sure lasting a lot longer than the Werwolf organization did, and I bet Coulter isn't keen on advertising that! Yes, there were documented incidents of Americans being killed after VE Day -- the book lists some of them. In Bremen, a police station was blown up on June 4th 1945, resulting in 5 US fatalities. A soldier from the 4th Armored Division was abducted on June 12th and his garrotted body was recovered later. But the point Biddiscombe makes is that these were isolated incidents, and the much-vaunted German resistance simply collapsed.

[Lisa]

12. "Operation Nursery"

(edited to remove a duplicate post)

Biddiscombe notes that the Nazi resistance tried to use the Hitler Youth organization -- instead of hiding in the hills and doing hit-and-run raids as they'd been trained in the months before, many of the kids just surrendered to the Allies after the Hitler regime collapsed.

"By the end of 1945, the Allies had obtained lists of members and sympathizers -- a compilation of 1000 names associated with the southern group, and 1500 with the northern" ... "a series of raids in 1945-6 netted almost the whole HJ-Werwolf leadership" ... "a large-scale raid was conducted in late March, whereby 800 lesser lights were also corralled, occasionally after gun battles between Allied troops and desperate Werwolves" ... "A few nebulous offshoots of the movement survived" (e.g. The Blue Falcons) "but within several months, these too were rolled up by the occupation authorities"


In this case, Eisenhower actually overestimated how much resistance there might be (a marked contrast with Bush and Co.!).

"From the beginning, General Eisenhower considered the Germans a warlike race who would never surrender, and he suggested that the German Army would break down into individual centres of resistance, possibly anchored in an Alpine Redoubt, rather than capitulate."

In fact, the scenario he worried about ("the situation chaotic, probably guerilla fighting and possibly even civil war in certain districts .... If conditions in Germany turn out to be as described it will be utterly impossible to control or save the economic structure of the country") -- it sounds, um, really familiar.

[Old and In the Way]

7. Did he mention Iraq has the 2nd largest oil reserve?

NO? I'm shocked.

[cthrumatrix]

38. a sellout forgets the facts

[Art_from_Ark]

41. Me, too

Shocked, I tell you

To the victors belong the spOILs

[wiggs]

8. From Truthout

A snip from Will Pitt:

*

Documented comments by Bush's National Security Advisor, Condi Rice, and Secretary of State, Colin Powell, that Iraq had "a decimated military, no significant capabilities regarding WMD, and was so feeble that it couldn't even threaten the countries around it with conventional military power." See the following for documentation and even video clips:

2001: Powell & Rice - Iraq Not a Threat
http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/powell-no-wmd.htm

February 2001: Powell Declares Iraq Has No WMD
http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/powell-no-wmd-original...

November 2001: WMDs Easiest Justification to Invade Iraq
http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=a...

*

Seems like years ago:

"..Kerry responded, “Oh yeah, don’t worry man. We’re going to keep pounding, let me tell you — we’re just beginning to fight here. These guys are the most crooked, you know, lying group of people I’ve ever seen.”"

[BeFree]

11. DejaVu, all over again

This is a repeat of what was said about Viet Nam.

I guess since there ain't no WMD, no Peace, no nothing good, this is all they can come up with....

And Mc said he was concerned only about what's good for America... seems he wants a place at the feast as this war eats us alive. Mc, yer done as far as I'm concerned, you went all the way over to the dark side, man. You ain't saying anything that is good for America.

[warrior1]

13. Fuck you mccain

say that to all the dead American's and Iraq people...

It ain't fucking noble to lie about the reasons over and over again you jerk.

[yardwork]

15. Noble. That's been a common Republican mantra on Iraq.

It's meant to remind people of God and the Rapture and End Times. McCain was obviously given a speech to read.

[Aidoneus]

16. Let this crowd then feel the same "liberation"

I should like to hear their general thoughts on the subject then. I suspect they would change somewhere in between the Class Photo and Rambunctious Cuddling sessions. Or perhaps during and/or after the part where their families and neighborhoods disappear, or as the tanks rolling down their street start picking off kids, streetlights, and random apartment buildings. So heroicy and nobility would perhaps bring these ridiculous thoughts into proper perspective.

[slojim240]

17. Except, Iraq is NOT liberated. They are now an occupied nation.

They were "liberated" when Saddam was in charge. They could at least walk down their streets, live in their homes, work, go to school, practice medicine and receive health care. WTF have they had since Desert Storm?

[librechik]

18. I love Big Brother! I love Big Brother! I love Big Brother! n/t

[leesa]

19. Complete bald-faced lie. McCain is garbage.

He has betrayed our country.

[saigon68]

20. John McCain has sold his soul

Esau sold his birthright for a mess of pottage. Judas sold his Savior for thirty pieces of silver. Benedict Arnold sold his country for a promise of a commission in the British army." McCain sells his birthright, country, his wife, his children and his fellowmen for an unfulfilled promise from his employer.

On Edit:-- with apologies to Jack London

[Zorra]

21. Hey, Hitler said the "liberation" of Poland was necessary and noble too!

But that didn't make it right.


BTW, Mr. McCain, why did Bu$h and the neocons have to lie to Congress and us to get us into their "noble" war which has been a disaster for our country?

[tuvor]

22. What?? Iraq is FREE????

Stop the presses, I think this story got missed!

[ilovenicepeople]

26. HOWDY tuvor

Welcome to DU from a fellow islander,:hi:

[tuvor]

35. Thanks, and hello from Courtenay, nicepeople!

The city, not the lady :)

[Bo]

23. McCain sticks head up * ass

Thinks he sees heaven

[Jaybird]

24. here is how i see it..

the righties were just jealous of saddam and the power he had

[Disturbed]

25. Speaking of noble.

[NickB79]

28. And 5 seconds later

McCain drops to his knees and "services" his new master to cheers and applause from the crowd.

That picture makes me sick, because I once considered McCain a halfway intelligent, moderate Republican. I wonder how much much his price was?

[jayfish]

27. He Should Say That Shit While He Watches The Video...

of the twelve executed Nepalese hostages. I'm sure they would have been enjoying a "benign status quo" right this minute.

Jay

[Disturbed]

29. Theories

The Neo Fascists have something on him that he can't afford to be revealed.

They paid him a lot of money.

He is a whipped dog that licks the person that beat on him.

He snapped.

He was promised something that we don't know about...yet.

?

[jayfish]

31. I Think He Just Drank The Cool-Aid.

Seems to me that anything else would just elicit a "fvck off" from him. Maybe someday we will find out.

Jay

[Just Me]

30. TO "ACHIEVE" WHAT????

FOR WHAT "NOBLE" ENDEAVORS? TO WHAT "ENDS"?

Bullshit!

The minute anyone "believes" him/herself of greater value,...is the moment of destructive behavior.

These people,...these "rulers",...are worse than a disease like AIDS or SARS,..they are willing to consume even those who try to protect themselves.

[LynnTheDem]

32. Total bullshit

The Iraqi people DID NOT ASK US to "liberate" them.

The Iraqi people DID NOT WANT US in Iraq and they STILL don't.

The Iraqi people were FREE TO COME AND GO from Iraq as they pleased; there was no wall around Iraq.

This was NEVER about any "liberation" and only the retarded or the incredibly ignorant think otherwise.

BUSH HIMSELF said Saddam Hussein COULD REMAIN IN POWER IF HE DISARMED.

As bush "likes to call it", it's REVISIONIST HISTORY.

McCain; just another bushboot-licking brownshirt liar and a traitor to all soldiers.

[jayfish]

34. Excellent Point. -NT=

Jay

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

36. Lie, let me introduce you to the truth.

BUSH HIMSELF said Saddam Hussein COULD REMAIN IN POWER IF HE DISARMED.

[dbt]

37. Wrong. And-------------------------WRONG!

This is the Great War To Make Dick Cheney Rich(er). There is nothing noble or necessary about it. I don't see any great amount of Liberty in Iraq, either.

Fuck McCain.
Deeply.
Severely.
Repeatedly.

:grr:
dbt

[jmcgowanjm]

39. And McCain must know the US is being destroyed in Iraq

Al-Jazeera satellite TV reported Monday that a series of
Iraqi
Resistance attacks on the oil pipeline network in southern
Iraq had
shut down all exports of Iraqi oil through the port of al-
Basrah
starting Sunday night and that no pumping likely for at least
one
week. Wasid Khadduri of the Middle East Economic
Survey reported
that the shut down of Iraqi petroleum exports from the south
for one
day cost the US occupation $60
million.

In an effort to prevent the US occupation from deriving
benefit from
the resources of their country, the Iraqi Resistance
have maintained
a constant offensive against the oil pipeline networks in the
north
and south of the country. Exports to the north have been
virtually shut down for months.

In its virtually daily attacks on US fuel convoys, the Resistance
is
seeking to cut off the supply of the "life blood" to the
occupation forces – their fuel.

It's all about oil, isn't it John?

PS late reports: even
the anonymous spokesman who proclaimed the resumption
of work out of
al-Basrah asserted that 75,000 barrels of oil were
pumped through in
the last hours of Monday – far below the already depressed
daily
reported average of 1.8 million barrels per
day.

[Strawman]

42. Spinning lies around shreds of truth, leaving contradictory evidence out

Sure, Iraq was not an oasis of peace before the war. Saddam was awful. But another factor that never gets mentioned that caused daily suffering for the Iraqi's were the heavy handed sanctions that killed 500,000 children over the 10+ years they were in effect. If anyone really wanted to help the Iraqi people they would have engaged them, limited the sanctions to military and dual use technologies, continued the weapons inspections and worked to topple a regime that in many areas was collapsing on it's own. As always, McCain and the Republicans present us with false choices, between war and a Saddam armed with WMD he never had and never would have had if inspections had continued. Between the continued suffering of the Iraqi people and a war of liberation that was supposed to magically end all suffering there (now we're told hey it's not so easy but "worth it" - to whom?) Any counter-terrorist response that is not a ham-handed military response is falsely presented as "weak" and if we kill some innocent Arabs who had nothing to do with 9/11, well that's just what needs to be done to let the others know we "mean business." Life is indeed cheap to these "pro-lifers." I'm not a pacifist, but I think war should always be the last option, and I certainly don't think it's appropriate to sacrifice tens of thousands of lives to prove that we "mean what we say." Not to mention that the war is counter-productive. That Hosni Mubarak doesn't understand the Arab people like George Bush when he said Bush had created 1000 Bin Ladens. What would he know? Nope that's just "upside down logic" (and maybe a little bit of fuzzy math - who knows). How ironic that the Republicans have now become the "if it feels good do it" party when it comes to "kickin ass." It never ceases to depress and amaze me that my neighbors, co-workers and otherwise decent people can be whipped into a "patriotic" frenzy in support of senseless killing. How ironic that the Republican party that supposedly disdains elitists who think they know what's good for you, can tell the Iraqis they know what is best for them.