Protesters Allege 9/11 was a Government Conspiracy

[Dancing_Dave]

Protesters Allege 9/11 Terror Attacks Were Government Conspiracy
By Marc Morano
CNSNews.com Senior Staff Writer
September 03, 2004

New York (CNSNews.com) - On the final day of the Republican National Convention, protesters gathered where the World Trade Center once stood to allege a massive government conspiracy and cover-up regarding the terror attacks of September 11, 2001.

The afternoon event, sponsored by 911truth.org, was called "Vigil For Truth at Ground Zero."

"<9/11> was an inside job, a fraud, a scam, equivalent of the of the Reichstag that led to a reign of terror across Nazi Europe. And it seems like that's what is happening now," protestor David Hylander told CNSNews.com.

The burning of the Reichstag, Germany's parliament building, in 1931 gave Adolph Hitler the opportunity to consolidate his power and suppress civil liberties.
</clip>
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=%5CNation%5Carchive%5C200409%5CNAT20040903a.html

I've said all along, when the 9/11 cover-up cracks in New York City, it will crack everywhere and the Bush-Cheney Regime's days will be numbered. This breaking news from an NY protest is one little sign among many others that this may really happen before the next election!

http://summeroftruth.org
http://911truth.org

[Dancing_Dave]

1. A little more to show how the cover-up is unraveling in New York

Another clip from the same piece shows the dynamics of how the 9/11 cover-up is unravelling in NYC:

<clip>
Lamming said that "50 percent of people in New York City don't believe" the official version of events surrounding 9/11.

Andrea Psoras, another protester at the World Trade Center site, said she was near Ground Zero on September 11 when the towers crashed down. Psoras believes that explosives aided the collapse of at least one of the towers.

"I knew I heard explosives," Psoras told CNSNews.com.

Psoras also singled out the "military industrial complex" and the GOP as the primary forces behind the terror attacks. "The Republicans have a propensity to do whatever they can get away with," she said.
</clip>

A lot of other things will be happening in the next few weaks to unravel the cover-up. http://summeroftruth.org

[MsUnderstood]

2. I just sent a letter to the editor about 9/11 (not published yet)

Although Kerry used his military service as a springboard when accepting his nomination and speaks about it when defending himself against “Switboater Veterans for truth”, the media has chosen to portray him as running only on his military record and ignore Kerry’s plan to help America recover. If the cliché “What is good for the candidate is good for the incumbent” rings true then this is what I expect to happen next month.

After Bush uses the 9/11 tragedy to springboard into his re-election campaign, the media will distort his campaign as being solely about his response to terror and ignore Bush’s other campaign goals. Next a non-profit organization by 9/11 victims will run a commercial in 3 states pointing out Bush’s failures before during and after 9/11: he gave Taliban $43 million in May 2001; he ignored terrorist warnings by his cabinet; he sat in a class room reading a book while the country was attacked; he lied to America about Iraq’s involvement in 9/11 (over 55 misleading statements made by Bush and over 200 by his administration); he has stated he does not care where Osama Bin Laden or whether or not he will be found.

Finally, the media will give this commercial life by replaying it over and over until everyone knows about the organization and the things they have said about Bush. The only difference will be that the Swiftboat Veterans lied and the 9/11 organization did not.

[Chelsea Patriot]

35. I agree completely with Ms. Psoras!

I was outside with my pug when the Towers fell.

I saw the black mushroom cloud.

My first thoughts, as we started to run, were, "Oh My God, they're using explosives, too!"

No one will ever convince me other wise.

[Rich Hunt]

47. uhhhh, I don't think so

Many, many people saw the towers. Do you think you're the only one?

:eyes:

BTW, welcome to DU!

[Skuk]

3. check it out

http://pixla.px.cz/pentagon.swf

[tridim]

4. I hadn't seen that, thanks

That flash animation is very well done.

[mrbassman03]

7. hahahaha! nice signature image!

Daily show rocks...

[CitizenWill]

12. Tridim is that a Frenchie? Or a Bull Terrier?

[LunaC]

5. Take up the cause and spread the word

Check out the link in my sig line!

EVERYBODY needs to know this stuff and "Dropaganda" is fun!

[Skuk]

8. i have been

reading more and more about it and it is really scary. good job clueing people in on this

[Sterling]

6. Kick

Hells ya!

[Dancing_Dave]

9. Criminal investigator Ruppert names Cheney as director of 9/11

Mike Ruppert, formerly a Criminal Investigator for the Los Angelas Police Department, is about to release an explosive book he has been researching for over 2 years. Describing "Crossing the Rubicon: Decline of the American Empire at the End of the Age of Oil", he says
<clip>
"In my new book I will be making several key points:

1. I will name Richard Cheney as the prime suspect in the mass
murders of 9/11 and will establish that, not only was he a planner in
the attacks, but also that on the day of the attacks he was running a
completely separate Command, Control and Communications system which was superceding any orders being issued by the NMCC Military Command Center], or the White House Situation Room.

2. I will establish conclusively that in May of 2001, by
presidential order, Richard Cheney was put in direct command and
control of all wargame and field exercise training and scheduling
through several agencies, especially FEMA. This also extended to all
of the conflicting and overlapping NORAD drills on that day.

3. I will also demonstrate that the TRIPOD II exercise being set up
on Sept. 10th in Manhattan was directly connected to Cheney's role.

4. I will also prove conclusively that a number of public officials,
at the national and New York City levels, including then Mayor
Rudolph Giuliani, were aware that Flight 175 was en route to lower
Manhattan for 20 minutes and did nothing to order the evacuation of
or warn the occupants of the South Tower. One military officer was
forced to leave his post in the middle of the attacks and place a
private call to his brother -- who worked at the WTC -- warning him
to get out. That was because no other part of the system was taking
action.

5. I will also show that the Israeli and British governments acted
as partners with the highest levels of the American government to
help in the preparation and, very possibly, the actual execution of
the attacks."

"There is more reason to be afraid of not facing the evidence in this
book than of facing what is in it."

http://www.indybay.org/news/2004/09/1694003.php
</clip>

Mike will soon be in New York to participate in the Summer of Truth events which are now unraveling the cover-up in New York City.
http://summeroftruth.org

Numerous experts and witnesses to the events of 9/11 will be involved public inquiry. New York is the best possible place to do this, because thousands of New Yorkers have experiences which aren't really consistant with the official version of events, a major storm is brewing as they put their heads together and figure out what the Bush-Cheney gang has really done to them!

Background relevent to the unravelling 9/11 cover-up in New York City:

ZOGBY POLL Half of New Yorkers think Bush deliberately let 9/11 happen, most want more investigation:
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20040830120349841

Juan Gonzalez on 9/11 Environmental/Public Health cover-up:
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/08/19/1354251

Joel Kupferman (New York Environmental Law and Justice Project) on 9/11 pollution cover-up
http://www.nyenvirolaw.org/PDF/Kupferman-Chapter-in-LOST-LIBERTIES.pdf

9/11 Research
http://911research.wtc7.net/index.html

Jeff King on the WTC disaster and subsequent cover-ups:
http://home.comcast.net/~jeffrey.king2/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html

INN World Report
http://inn.globalfreepress.com/modules/news/

http://911truth.org
http://ny911truth.org

[Sterling]

10. I can't wait for Mike's book!!!

I hope it's as good as I think it will be.

[leesa]

11. Bout time the government complicity in 9-11 gets some mainstream

print. It's pretty damn obvious they were involved.

[Disturbed]

13. MIHOP vs LIHOP

LIHOP is definetly gaining support.

[goforit]

16. No.....the article was a Mihop realization.

[AFSCME girl]

75. What do...

MIHOP and LIHOP stand for? Thank you, in advance, for clearing this up for me :hi:

[pretzel4gore]

14. it requires studied indifference to not see

the obvious...cnn/foxnews etc are working on it

[goforit]

15. Bada Bing!!!........Mihop is now being thoroughly brought to light!

"Bush-Cheney Regime's days will be numbered."

And so is every one of their followers!!!

[graphixtech]

17. Blast the Zogby poll to the media!

Please contact your local paper and ask them to cover the Zogby poll here:
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=855

(A new video of Ruppert in Toronto available):
"Mike Ruppert speaks about the
air failures and events
of 9/11. 8:48
(from 911Visibility.org)

http://www.septembereleventh.org/kc/multimedia/

Here is a recent letter from Dr. Robert Bowman:
(Credentials: Lieutenant Colonel, retired USAF;
President, Institute for Space & Security Studies;
Presiding Archbishop, United Catholic Church;
author, “Some Dare Call It Treason")

"Dear Fellow Patriot,

I urge each of you to get involved with the
International 9/11 Truth movement as requested by Ed Asner in his recent letter to the anti-war community. Mr. Asner has stated in an eloquent, yet low-key way the case for all of us
to stand and work together until the truth about this “New Pearl Harbor” is seen and understood by all Americans.

"We simply cannot ignore the fact that elements of the US government at the highest levels may have committed treason and mass murder by purposely allowing 9/11 to happen. The scores of lies and contradictions that riddle
the official story have long been obvious, as have the thousands of lives and profiteered billions their 9/11-justified wars have cost.

Dr. Robert M. Bowman
Lieutenant Colonel, retired USAF;
President, Institute for Space & Security Studies;
Presiding Archbishop, United Catholic Church;
author, “Some Dare Call It Treason"


http://www.911truth.org/

[telamachus]

18. some questions: MIHOP LIHOP

Has anyone brought a lawsuit so that the case can be heard?

Aside from circumstantial evidence, is there any hard evidence that LIHOP or MIHOP is true? and I don't mean people who think they heard explosions or theories about explosives or engineering. I mean physical evidence. If explosives were used then there would be residue over hundres of blocks and someone would have looked.

I have seen quite a bit of circumstantial evidence but no real hard proved facts to support the claims.

I lean toward LIHOP in the sense that they were negligent to the point of letting it happen but in the sense that there is a difference between second and first degree murder. I think that 9/11 is more like second degree murder.

[jmcgowanjm]

19. SS does nothing while Bush sits for 7 minutes

SS does nothing while Bush stays in Booker for at
least another 20 minutes.

SS takes Bush back to Airport by original route.

Pentagon/911

Note that the area in question had not yet collapsed.

http://www.thepowerhour.com/911_analysis/report.htm

Andrews AF Base 10 miles from Pentagon.

And who told Giuliani to evacuate WTC7?
And why did he listen to him/her, and why doesn't
he remember who it was.

When firefighters on 78th floor of WTC are saying
fires manageable, beginning triage.

Notice how all the principle culprits careers are
blooming?

Zero evidence has been presented that OBL
was involved. No convictions. Zero.

[telamachus]

20. Answering a question with a question is not what I was looking for

The secret service has a job to stay with the president at all times.

None of the evidence you presented prove at all that Bush made 911 happen.

I will answer you questions:

SS takes Bush back to Airport by original route.

The most secure route..prearranged back atcha: remember how disorganized Bush's movements were after the attacks?

Andrews AF Base 10 miles from Pentagon.

Ok so what

And who told Giuliani to evacuate WTC7?

Well if I saw 100 stary buildin gfall down next to a 30 story buiding and land partly on the building I would tell them to get out!

And why did he listen to him/her, and why doesn't
he remember who it was.

????? ghosts maybe

When firefighters on 78th floor of WTC are saying
fires manageable, beginning triage.

How the hell would they know the extent of the problem outside of their area?

Notice how all the principle culprits careers are
blooming?

Questions based on assumptions...won't go there!

Zero evidence has been presented that OBL
was involved.

lots of circumstantial

No convictions. Zero.

No trial.

[jmcgowanjm]

21. The job of the SS:protect POTUS/whose local was public info

This supercedes everything.

With CritLinks, the
SS knew exactly what was going on.

Even down to NORAD steering VA jets out into the Atlantic.

Remember the story of the SS frog marching Cheney to
the WH basement.

[telamachus]

22. The numbers of people that must

be involved in the cover up is very nearly impossible.. Would you like to buy this nice bridge or perhaps some nice swamp land...:)

Sorry but I just can't buy into the idea that hundreds if not thousands of people are in on it.

[Malva Zebrina]

24. So you believe Bin Laden did it?

As much evidence that Bin Laden did it exists as any other theory.

We have never been given any evidence at all that this was the result of an attack by Al Quaida by our government. None. There were a couple of video tapes that certainly were altered--there were audio tapes that were proven to be altered tapes also.

So to believe that Bin Laden did it one must take the word of George Bush. Do you take his word for it? I wouldn't take his lying word for anything. Knowing how he operates, Bin Laden was a convienent enemy to dredge up to take the place of the evil "communists" and I believe that Bush and Cheney (Rove) saw that immediately and worked to make Bin Laden the culprit.

It is indeed a tragedy that after all this time all we have is silliness and propaganda when it comes to understanding who did it. The Antrax killers? Who did that? How does that tie in?

Something sure is wrong.

[telamachus]

25. I believe that

19 or so Saudis flew hijacked the airplanes on 9/11. I base this on what I have read from french german russian american saudi etc... sources.

OBL may or may not have "ordered" the attack but I see NO evidence that 100's or 1000's of US government officers and employees committed the crime.

Again I ask for direct evidence...If even just one of the many involved come forward I would begin to believe it.

If any one came forward with ONE piece of hard evidence not circumstantial evidence I would begin to believe.

No one has direct evidence so I must conclude that that this is all fantasy.

[jmcgowanjm]

31. At least 7 of the hijackers were alive on 9/12/01

And the majority of Germans and French think it
was at least LIHOP. So name those foreign mags
would you?

Our DoD has a budget over $400B/yr
And it can't account for at least $2.3 Trillion.

http://www.house.gov/defazio/UpPentagon.shtml

OBL's on dialysis in a cave in Afghanistan.

We have no clue that 9/11's about to happen
but hours after the attack we know who did it.

No one is harder to convince than someone who is paid not
to be convinced.

[telamachus]

32. debunked

myth that the hijackers were alive...lots of bob smiths out there or mohamed smiths as it was...

[Art_from_Ark]

44. The BBC and others have said alleged hijackers are still alive

"Hijack 'suspects' alive and well"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm

"Many of the 9-11 hijackers are still alive"
http://thunderbay.indymedia.org/news/2002/12/2373_comment.php

So who has debunked this information? Rush Limbaugh?

[telamachus]

55. First of all

It is likely that two facts are missing in the 'hijacker alive' theories. A: Names are forged quite often in criminal cases. B: Identity based on a name not proof in any case how many people are running around with the same name?

Second of all, there is a falsehood that exists regarding the idea that 'Indy' media is any more unbiased or accurate than the 'mainstream press' I tend to discount internet hearsay from 'Indy media' web sites.

The thunderbay web site claims that their article is aplagerised version of a article on aserver that can't be found ( browser seems to work fine for others)

Can't stomach limpballs sorry.

Actually PBS Frontline did a good job of showing Mohamad Atta and his role including how international criminal investigators followed thes hijackers.

[Art_from_Ark]

65. Um, BBC is about as "mainstream" as you can get

Second, there are not only names, but FACES to go with them.

Third, how is it that all of the "hijackers'" pictures-- complete with profiles-- were released within a couple of days, when the FBI has taken weeks, months, or even years to gather evidence in other high-profile cases? A few that come to mind-- Unabomber (discovered after 17 years only after he was identified by his brother), the Anthrax mailer (3 years, and still no leads), the Atlanta Olympics bomber (took them years to identify, track and nail Eric Rudolph, after they had spent much effort pursuing another guy), the Yosemite killer (questioned and released after murdering three women, because agents were SURE that the perp was in Modesto because the wallet of a victim was found there), and the Jon Benet Ramsey case, to name a few. Yet somehow they get all the names and profiles of all the hijackers in only a day or two? Yeah, right. And that's around the same time that Ashcroft goes rounding up people just because they have Arabic-sounding names, and holding them incognito (many are still in custody), quite contrary to US law.

[telamachus]

66. The BBC Article is an early source..

check out later dates. Manifests contain names and security tapes have faces. Not rocket science to figure it out. Aslo why is it that there is so much dissagreement between various conspiracy theories? Paul Thompson (mr timeline) believes that the hijackers were who they were and flew the planes.

The dueling conspiracy theories are quite entertaining but I am leaning to alien powers. Osama is an evil alien and so is cheney...see how much fun the game is when we get really creative. :)

What Asscrack did was not right (pretty fucked up to say the least) but it was not much different than what was done in ww2.

[Art_from_Ark]

69. "Security tapes have faces..."

Have you SEEN any of these security tapes, especially clear enough to identify the people on them? And to identify the exact date and time and location? Most security tapes are blurred at best, making it hard to discern features unless the person is looking directly into the camera.

Now why would Ashcroft be in such a hurry to round up people with Arab names, and keep their identities secret, which is against everything the US is supposed to stand for? Could it be that they got the "hijackers'" names and photos from among the scruffiest-looking of these detainees? It is just too convenient that the FBI was able to get so many names and profiles in such a hurry, considering their past track record.

And finally, did the BBC ever retract its story about "hijackers" being alive? Sorry, I just can't take your word for it. I need to see the proof, from the BBC itself.

[telamachus]

72. Answers

yes yes assumption we let him fantasy knows no bounds not no(very few papers retract many later stories) google it

and finally: I will never waver from my belief that space aliens are to blame and thats that! :)

[Malva Zebrina]

36. that is what I said--one theory is as good as another

there is no hard evidence on either side and from anywhere else, but there is a whole lot of unanswered questions.

So the problem remains--How do you get the hard evidence or answers to those questions that we as Americans are entitled to?--By questioning and seeking the answers which Bush apparently fails or refuses to do.The 911 panel was nothing but a bowl of chocolate mousse topped with whipped cream. And, we are still not privvy to more than half the report which has been convienently shelved away from our prying eyes until after the election. Why?


We are at the same point as we were after the JFK assassination. Wild theories abounded then and continue to do so. There have been thousands of books written, each with it's own theory, some of them even CIA psyops it has been said. All the investigators/researchers that sensed things were not adding up in the beginning were labeled conspiracy nuts. The Warren commission was a bowl of vanilla mousse topped with whipped cream . To this day, no one really knows what happened in the JFK and you can also take your pick on that one.

Americans who died in the WTC, and their families, deserve better than that. All Americans deserve better than that. How are we to protect ourselves and our families if this information is not available to us? We are operating solely on the word of a known liar.

The hard questions are not being answered. Why? It begs the question if there is , perhaps, something to hide.

[telamachus]

38. The hard questions are not being answered. Why?

perhaps they are and people want to belive someting else they may (most likely) ignore data that conflict wiht their bias

[leesa]

49. But why do you believe that without any evidence? 7 of them

are alive and well.

We don't have a clue who was on those planes, or if ANYONE was piloting them. Dov Zakheim, recent comptroller with the DOD (who apparently stole trillions of dollars), was ceo of a company that made the software that allowed up to five airliners to be taken over from the ground electronically in the event of a hijacking.

What if this neocon used his product to hijack the planes?

It would explain why they did not allow jets to intercept even to simply visualize the cockpit. What if nobody was IN the cockpit? Far to many unanswered questions, many of which could easily be answered by looking at existing records.

[telamachus]

53. I belive that the

photos of and video of those and testimony from those who saw the hijackers etc.etc.. are real.

My bias leads me to the simplest and IMO the most obvious answer to the perps in the 911 hijacking.

Sorry that I can't play the fantasy conspiracy game anymore :(

But then again it might have been space aliens. One theory is just as good as the next :)

[jmcgowanjm]

30. Manhattan Project was much larger

And we're just now getting info on the Shadow Gov't
complex North of Camp David:
Mount Weather

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/mountweather.html

"Sorry but I just can't buy into the idea." Great. Go
somewhere else. But don't try to dis what I just posted
w/ that bridge/swampland BS.

[telamachus]

34. well the Manhattan project

was not a criminal conspiracy. And BS is a story that can't be backed up by hard evidence not a fantasy connect the dots game...

Look.. there are some people who believe things without direct evidence and I am not one of them...

[Eloriel]

43. You apparently believe bin Laden did it without direct evidence

That's the "official story," of course.

In fact, I'm sure there are a LOT of things in this world you believe without direct evidence.

I'd suggest that you start a thorough review of the literature out there on 9-11. Well, make that initial review, because a thorough review would take you many weeks.

One of the best places to start IMO is at CooperativeResearch, where Paul Thompson's magnificent work (some of which is coming out in book form soon) is compiled:

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/project.jsp?project=911_project

Once you thoroughly digest all this, ALL of it sourced in the mainstream press, you may have more doubts than you have now and a better appreciation for "circumstantial evidence."

And oh, btw, circumstantial evidence gets a lot of people convicted. I guess you're against that too?

[telamachus]

48. Well I never said it was Bin Laden

"in fact, I'm sure there are a LOT of things in this world you believe without direct evidence"

that would be wrong (nice assumption though)

"I'd suggest that you start a thorough review of the literature out there on 9-11. Well, make that initial review, because a thorough review would take you many weeks."

I have visited about 125 sites regarding 911. But thanks for assuming I have not read about it.

Thanks for the link been there seen that.

"Once you thoroughly digest all this, ALL of it sourced in the mainstream press, you may have more doubts than you have now and a better appreciation for "circumstantial evidence.""

not all circumstantial evidence is created equal...quite a subjective area..lots of bias involved


"And oh, btw, circumstantial evidence gets a lot of people convicted. I guess you're against that too?"

Like I said before, not all circumstantial evidence is equal in pointing to the truth. I am very much against using only circumstantial evidence to convict people or ideas. Living in a world where actions are taken on purely subjective evidence is quite frightening to me. I prefer to live closer to a reality based on correlations of factually based evidence.

Do not get me wrong,I love flights of fancy and have spent many an entertaining hour dissecting conspiracy, identifying fnords, spreading chaos, and otherwise having a swell time of it all....

[Eloriel]

42. about conspiracies --

It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it. -- Upton Sinclair

It's even more difficult to get people who were involved and DO understand or have knowledge of something untoward to do the right thing when the whole weight of a rogue administration can be brought to bear on them, AND even more so when the media supports "the official story" anyway so that the truth can't be exposed. Look what's been done to people like Sibel Edmonds. Or even more telling, look at people like Danny Casolaro, James Hatfield, Cliff Baxter and a good number of others, some of them Senators over the years who have been inconveninet for the Bushes and have conveniently died in airplane crashes.

You need to rethink your idea of conspiracies. Here are some starting points for you:


CONSPIRACIES
Conspiracies: Self-interest, fear, inertia, values
http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=5535&forum=DCForumID70&archive=yes

Also see Information Architecture of Evil (read down) at http://www.zpluspartners.com/zblog/

Paranoid Shift
http://www.onlinejournal.com/Commentary/011004Hasty/011004hasty.html

Can huge conspiracies work? Or would someone talk?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1695698#1695780

The Magic Bullshit http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2300021#2302016

[jmcgowanjm]

23. Giuliani left WTC7 before the towers fell

And you can find the famous Giuliani racing down the street for yourself.

When firefighters on 78th floor of WTC are saying
fires manageable, beginning triage.
From Port Authority tapes, which same PA has done their
best to deny existence and then stonewall release.

And Command Post in WTC7 was networked w/ PA

http://www.cosmicpenguin.com/911/Eastman/m18h05.html

You're saying so what to a 24/7 combat ready 2 fighter
squadrons 10 miles away

waiting an 1hr 20 min while Flt 77 is being tracked into DC.

Doing nothing.

No trial.

Oh yes there have been trials. How's
Moussaui doin.
No convictions 'cause US can't, won't produce
enemy combatants (US only recognizes this term)
it says it has.

[maryallen]

26. Guess who "investigated" the backgrounds of the hijackers?

The SAUDIS.

According to Zelikow, one of the authors of the 911 Commission Report, the Saudis were asked to investigate the backgrounds of the 15 Saudi hijackers (around page 200 of the report).

Read the information. Superficial ... perfunctory ...
One graduated from college, another from high school in a rural community; some were religious fanatics, others were not ... and THAT'S IT!! More in depth reporting about Khalid Sheik Mohammed, but regarding the actual participants in the coup, very damm little.

[telamachus]

28. The information provided

by german authorities and the data on the movements of the hijackers is very detailed.

Many agencies investigated the terrorists. Not just the sauidis as you imply and if you did not imply that then who cares because many countries investigated.

[maryallen]

33. Quote ("911 Commission Report"): PAGE 231

"Saudi authorities interviewed the relatives of these men and have briefed us on what they found."

The above quote can be found in Chapter 7, "The Attack Looms," under the heading, "Assembling the Teams," and the sub-heading, "Recruitment and Selection for 9-11."

The "bountiful" source of information that concludes the above paragraph:

"The muscle hijackers came from a variety of educational and societal backgrounds. All were between 20 and 28 years old; most were unemployed with no more than a high school education and were unmarried."

Regarding telamachus's remark:

I am certain that the Germans HAVE investigated the hijackers, as have the intelligence services of numerous other countries. However, that was NOT MY POINT. Rather, my point was, that for the final report released to the American people, the information that was used to verify the identities and the recruitment of the majority of the 911 hijackers was provided by SAUDI ARABIA.

[telamachus]

37. So What ?

like I said before so what if Saudia Arabia did provide information..what is it that you want to know about them?

I am not sure what your point is. Are you saying that the people who bought the tickets and boarded the planes and brought them down were not Saudis? If not them who were they? And just who would commit murder and suicide if not dissaffected uneducated morans who are brainwashed?

[pretzel4gore]

58. there were no hijackers you damn fool

believe what you will, but mathematically it's been proven the pentagon jet could not have been flown by a human being. period. the whole thing is a gigglefest for the nazipoos. being a devils' advocate is good, but go back to the coup d'etat, the corruption of the press and the mortal danger the real usurpers of power are in if ever caught for the excercise....and put aside 911 for now. 1000's of people do know what happened, many before the event.....and one day it'll be accepted conventional wisdom that there was a plot etc.

[telamachus]

59. Proof?

OK like I said before I am willing to look at the evidence...if you have it.... or are you the foolish one who has bought into silly fantasy?

I have a mathematician friend who would be glad to see your 'proof' as well as a few engineers that I know. Bring it on ! :)

"and one day it'll be accepted conventional wisdom that there was a plot etc."

you mean like: JFK plot, no moon landing, aliens, Bigfoot, crop circles, homeopathy, prophecy, ghosts, astrology, etc.... yep I am sure that that the fact that no one piloted the planes on 911 will be 'conventional wisdom' someday.

In regards to a coup: I really do not believe that anyone really believes that there was a coup in 2000. If so why in the hell are all the believers sitting on their asses and not doing anything about it?

Was the election stolen: the supreme had no right to make a decision to stop a count of the votes. Is it a coup? Not in my book Was it stolen: to the best of my knowledge bush won by 500+ votes. Did I want Bush in office: FUCK NO

[Minstrel Boy]

61. how interesting you say this:

"I really do not believe that anyone really believes that there was a coup in 2000.... Was it stolen: to the best of my knowledge bush won by 500+ votes."

Presuming you're merely uninformed rather than disingenuous, why don't you read this and tell us then the best of your knowledge:
http://www.gregpalast.com/bestdemocracymoneycanbuychapter1.pdf

[telamachus]

67. I have read This great book!

And I have met and spoken with Mr Palast. I agree that florida was part of a long history of vote fraud and dissinfranchisment.

There is no consensus as to who won florida but the numbers I quoted reflect the last result of vote counts before the Supreme Court stepped in.

Like I said before no one really belives that it was a coup because no one has done anything about it...If bush is not legitimate then why did you let him stay?

Our system of elections is not perfect but it continues to improve through the hard work of people who care.

[pretzel4gore]

73. petty criminals control society

liars (under oath, geeb vowed to uphold constitution when the plan was, see 'up from conservativism' or 'blinded by the right' to neutralise/debase it asap) thieves (for example the $700million illegally and covertly transferred from afghanistan rebuild to iraq destruction!) and perverts (you and i know that bush cheney rumsvelt asscrack are sexual and moral perverts of the grossest kind) and conmen....
the question is: why defend them at all? you could in effect go to any coffee chop in country and replace the bush admin with better quality, higher skilled individuals who at worst may bankrupt the country (which bushinc planned to do from getgo, having a hatred for USA liberal democracy beyond belief) though they probably wouldn't sabatoge its future, like bushinc intentionally is doing...
why waste your energy on common thieves and cowards anyway tela?

[telamachus]

27. Hmmm planes hit towers next to building you are in and you

don't go out to see??????

Give me a break.


And for you it would have been sooo easy to order the downing of a passenger jet?? ( oh wait don't some say that it was a cargo jet and that all the passeges that are missing were abducted LOL)

Again hard evidence to support the fantasy ....proof facts...wait..there are none..

Isn't it enough that Bush fucked up so badly that the attacks happened in the first place.

IMO this conspiracy crap discredits any attempt to get people to see that Bush is a fuckup and should be removed for his failure to prevent the attacks in the first place.

[jmcgowanjm]

39. The adventures of Giuliani

"The second plane hit when I was about a mile away and in
my van, rushing toward the site of the World Trade
Center."

And... WTF is this?:

"And I have to tell you we assumed that there would
be
multiple attacks that day. And not only did we assume
that,
the White House told us that there were seven planes
that
were unaccounted for. So we knew about two, then we
found
out about the Pentagon and the one over Pennsylvania.
But
that left three planes -- and at various times four and
five --
that we thought were unaccounted for that might
hit us."


WE ASSUMED THERE WOULD BE MULTIPLE ATTACKS
THAT DAY!

THE WH TOLD US THAT THERE WERE 7 PLANES
UNACCOUNTED FOR!

So right here, G is waiting for attacks?
SS knows 7 planes unaccounted.
Let's Bush alone in school for at least
27 minutes.

"We(Giuliani) had been through building collapses."

Never before has a bldg collapsed due to fire.
And G had no idea there would be collapses now.

"from the very moment that the first plane hit, 7 World Trade Center was evacuated"-WHY? See previous

Again, Giuliani is getting PA network feeds.
They're saying situation is manageable, send
engine companies.

Giuliani decides to run instead.

http://www.achievement.org/autodoc/page/giu0int-7

Breitweiser is resolute in her assertions. Airport
security
officials, she believes, could have done much more
to
prevent the hijackings. Beyond that, however, she
wonders
what September 11 would have been like had
the
government made the public aware of the threats.
How
many people, she asks, would have chosen to board
planes
that morning? And how many of those in World Trade
Center
2 would have remained in their offices, watching the
inferno
of Tower 1, had they known of the possibility of an
air
attack?

How about a timeline, telemachus. One with
at
least seven time points
of what happened on 911.

And Bush has given at least 7 different versions
of
911.

[jmcgowanjm]

41. Here's fantasy/Saudis fake passports pointing to Saudis

let's take a look at the idea of Saudi Arabia as the perpetrator
of 9-11. Why would they do it? What would they
gain? Immediately after the attacks, former Israeli Prime
Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was asked what the attack
would mean for US-Israeli relations. His quick reply was:
“It's very good…… Well, it's not good, but it will
generate immediate sympathy (for Israel)”. The months
since 9-11 have borne that out. US support for Israel's
agenda grew stronger as Israel committed more
atrocities against the Palestinians. More money flowed from
the US to Israel. World opinion, which had been growing
against Israel's treatment of the Palestinians,
temporarily abated. World hostility towards Arabs in
general grew. Forgotten was the fact that Israel was actually
in defiance of more UN Resolutions than Saddam had
ever been. And, it was assumed at the start of the war that
direct access to Iraq's oil would reduce American demand
for Saudi oil, and likely force prices down as Iraq's oil came
to market. So, where was the motive? Do you really think
Saudi Arabia would commit an act that would
strengthen US-Israeli ties? Do you really think Saudi
Arabia would commit an act that would undercut their own
oil revenues? Do you really think Saudi Arabia would commit
an act that would anger the world against Arabs? Do you
really think Saudi Arabia would commit an act that could result
in their almost one trillion dollars invested in the United States
to be legally frozen and confiscated? Me neither. If Saudi
Arabia wanted to hurt the United States, all they would have to
do is withdraw their investment cash all at once. The
move would be perfectly legal, and cause greater
economic damage than the 9-11 attacks.

[telamachus]

45. Hmm now it is Saudi Arabia

I only think it was persons from saudi arabia.

[jmcgowanjm]

71. Tell me when the CIA lost touch with Al Qaeda, Telemachus

And give me a link, source to back up what
you put down.

Thanks

PS On 2nd thought, if you think that the Bush Regime
2000 wasn't a coup, that -16,000 votes didn't
come out of Volusia County, that the final
recount done by a Media Consortium, delayed
release by 911, which showed that Bush could not
have won Florida, and that this has nothing to do
with oil, then nevermind. We'll see.

The only thing separating us from the animal
kingdom is self deception.

[telamachus]

74. Dont' know I am not

a CIA agent..or am I?

Everything we know is false. :)

[struggle4progress]

54. Many standard sources have thought this possibility at least ...

... deserved consideration:

New Saudi ambassador summonsed over Sept 11
By David Wastell, Diplomatic Correspondent
(Filed: 01/12/2002)

An American court has issued a summons against the next Saudi Ambassador to Britain alleging that in his previous job he helped to fund Afghanistan's Taliban regime while it was sheltering Osama bin Laden, lawyers said yesterday. <snip>

The previous Saudi ambassador to Britain, Dr Ghazi Algosaibi, was recalled to Riyadh in September after widespread fury at poems and public comments by him apparently sympathising with Palestinian suicide bombers.

Prince Turki, who courted bin Laden during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan and maintained close contacts with the Taliban regime, was replaced as the Saudis' head of intelligence two weeks before the September 11 attacks, after almost 25 years in the post. <snip>

http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/12/01/wsaud01.xml


Bush invites Saudi ambassador to Texas
Published: Wednesday, August 28, 2002


President George W. Bush meets with Saudi Arabian ambassador Prince Bandar bin Sultan at the Bush Ranch in Crawford, Texas, Tuesday.

<snip> Bush used the meeting to try to quell Saudi concerns over escalating anti-Saudi rhetoric in the United States. In July a policy analyst from the RAND Corp. told an influential advisory panel at the Pentagon that the U.S. should confront Saudi Arabia over its ties to terrorist organizations.

"The Saudis are active at every level of the terror chain, from planners to financiers, from cadre to foot soldier, from ideologist to cheerleader," the analyst said. "Saudi Arabia supports our enemies and attacks our allies." <snip>

http://www.dailylobo.com/news/2002/08/28/News/Bush-Invites.Saudi.Ambassador.To.Texas-263600.shtml


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
November 26, 2002
... Published reports this week have indicated that the Saudi Arabian Embassy, diplomatic personnel and possibly even Princess Haifa bint Faisal may have provided financial support to Nawaf Alhzami and Khalid Almidhar, who helped hijack American Airlines Flight 77 and crash it into the Pentagon. According to these reports, in early 2001, the Princess began sending monthly payments of $2,000 to a woman named Majeda Ibrahin Dweikat, who signed the cashier's checks over to the wife of Omar al-Bayoumi, a Saudi Arabian native who befriended and provided financial support to Alhzami and Almidhar upon their arrival in the United States ...
http://www.house.gov/fossella/pr021126.htm

November 29, 2002
EXCLUSIVE
The road to Riyadh
A stillborn FBI inquiry and a money trail from the Saudi Embassy to two of the 9/11 hijackers
By Gloria Borger, Edward T. Pound, and Linda Robinson

<snip> Even before investigators began tracing the cashier's checks from Princess Haifa, government officials told U.S. News, FBI and treasury investigators had begun formal inquiries into the flow of funds through the Saudi Embassy in Washington. Bank accounts of the embassy and embassy personnel enjoy diplomatic immunity. But the government officials say investigators have taken a number of steps–not including electronic surveillance–to attempt to monitor money flows through the embassy. Of particular concern, several officials said, is cash that may have been transported under diplomatic seal from Riyadh to Washington.

Separately, U.S. government officials say, FBI and treasury investigators believe that as much as $100 million has flowed from Saudi Arabia to terrorist organizations in recent years. "We're talking about major-league businessmen who have ties to the royal family,'' says a senior treasury official. "Over the years, they've put funds into a lot of different mechanisms–business charities, moneymaking ventures–and routed them through offshore havens. They distance themselves from the money–it gets washed again and finally disbursed to the bad guys.'' <snip>

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/features/saudi_021129.htm


SHOW: FOX ON THE RECORD WITH GRETA VAN SUSTEREN (22:11)
May 20, 2003 Tuesday
Transcript # 052002cb.260
<snip> BURTON: <snip> According to a Royal Canadian Mounted Police report, the Saudi government is giving, through intermediaries, between $1 million and $2 million a month to al Qaeda terrorists. <snip> We know that the Saudi ambassador's wife gave $130,000 to a Virginia woman, who gave it to one of the terrorists of 9/11 -- part of that group. <snip> And you add all these things together -- there was a woman who was married to a terrorist, and we wanted to have her before a federal grand jury, and the Saudi ambassador in here, Prince Bandar, gave her a passport and sent her and her five children back to Saudi Arabia so she wouldn't have to testify. <snip>
http://www.house.gov/burton/transcript52003.htm
Report traces ties of Saudi ambassador's wife to hijackers
James Risen NYT
Monday, July 28, 2003

Payments from the wife of the Saudi ambassador to the United States to the wife of a Saudi man living in San Diego sharply increased after a close associate of the San Diego man began to aid two of the September 11 hijackers, a classified congressional report has found, according to people who have read it. <snip>

http://www.iht.com/articles/104264.html


Saudi Spy Link To Al Qaeda Or 911?
WASHINGTON, August 2, 2003

<snip> FBI officials are seeking to question, anew, Saudi businessman Omar al-Bayoumi, who during his time in San Diego threw a welcoming party for eventual hijackers Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi and who put down money for their deposit and first month's rent. <snip>

For instance, Prince Bandar, the U.S. ambassador to the United States, and his wife, Princess Haifa al-Faisal, wrote tens of thousands of dollars of checks to a Saudi named Osama Basnan and his wife, Magda Ibrahim Dweikat, who were in San Diego around the time of the hijackers stay.

Al-Jubeir said Bandar gave charitable donations to Basnan to help cover his wife's medical bills starting in 1998 and that al-Faisal separately gave regular monthly payments to Dweikat, who used her maiden name that did not call attention to her marriage to Basnan.

Al-Jubeir said Saudi investigators traced every payment - which totaled more than $100,000 - and found evidence two or three of the princess' checks to Dweikat were signed over to al-Bayoumi's wife. Saudi officials found no evidence that money was transferred to the hijackers or even used by al-Bayoumi when he assisted the hijackers, he said. <snip>

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/08/03/world/main566412.shtml


August 27, 2003, 8:45 a.m.
Send Bandar Home
The U.S. can change the face of Saudi Arabia.
By Stephen Schwartz

<snip. Yet notwithstanding continuing revelations about Saudi funding of terror, Bandar remains untouchable in Washington, along with his wife, Princess Haifa. Although her convoluted financial links to Nawaf al-Hazmi and Khalid al-Mihdhar, the two lead hijackers among the 15 Saudis out of the 19 9/11 terrorists, attracted widespread attention late last year, she somehow fell through the cracks when the congressional report on the terror conspiracy was recently released. <snip>

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-schwartz082703.asp


Bank with close ties to Bush administration engulfed in scandal
By Joseph Kay
24 August 2004

The Justice Department announced on Friday that it is launching a criminal investigation into Riggs Bank. <snip>

The Newsweek article states: “About two months after al-Bayoumi began aiding Alhazmi and Almihdhar, Newsweek has learned, al-Bayoumi’s wife began receiving regular stipends, often monthly and usually around $2,000 and totaling tens of thousands of dollars. The money came in the form of cashier’s checks, purchased from Washington’s Riggs Bank by Princess Haifa bin Faisal, the daughter of the late King Faisal and wife of Prince Bandar, the Saudi envoy who is a prominent Washington figure and personal friend of the Bush family. The checks were sent to a woman named Majeda Ibrahin Dweikat, who in turn signed over many of them to al-Bayoumi’s wife...” <snip>

The bank was eventually fined $25 million in May 2004 for violating these regulations. However, the FBI has issued a statement saying it found no evidence of terrorist financing. The Bush administration has refused to release the intelligence behind the investigation, citing “national security concerns.” <snip>

Even after the FBI’s accusations in July 2003, the bank continued to allow massive cash transfers by the Saudi ambassador. Under pressure, the bank announced this past March that it was closing all Saudi accounts. <snip>

http://wsws.org/articles/2004/aug2004/rigg-a24.shtml

Funding Terror
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x71845

[JohnyCanuck]

29. Ruppert interview (MP3) just prior to latest Commonwealth speech

He brings up the Manhattan project and stealth fighter project as large government run projects that were successful in maintaining secrecy and says he will describe in his forthcoming book "Crossing the Rubicon" how there did not have to be large numbers of people in on this project. He believes about 20 to 30 people (IIRC)and not all of them would have had the full picture of what was going down.

Here's the link to the interview. It runs approx. 30min.

Ruppert Interview

[Gregorian]

40. That says it all.

This article has me thinking that we are still sitting here being too soft on Bush. Right now we should be actively removing him from office. Not waiting and hoping and wishing he losses in November. If the wind blows the wrong way, we have four more disasterous years. And probably many more generations of hell to pay. This is so serious, I cannot believe he made it this far with so little resistance. We need to tie this administration up with litigation. Right now. It's already too late.

It's so good to see this, even if it is one millionth of one percent of the American population that's saying it.

[roseBudd]

46. Guerilla marketing techniques can be used by all

Create an issue that brings the media to us using viral and guerilla marketing techniques.

please help me get the word out:

most people have not read the 8/6/2001 PDB. I created a postcard size version.




Please print and distribute the image above. High res version for printing available below. Put them on car winshields. Hand them out on street corners. drop them in driveways in the suburbs.

We don't need TV buys to get some attention on this issue. We have to undermine Bush's perceived strength. We all are potential disseminators of printed media. We do not need a newspapers permission or lots of money for TV commercials. We need viral grass roots marketing. We need to create a buzz. If we create a buzz with massive distribution of printed ads we will get media coverage. If these start miraculously appearing and no one knows where they are coming from it will start to get media attention. We must also go after and mock Rice, Cheney and Ashcroft. It is the whole package.


Bush admin. INCOMPETENCE is key to undermining his strength.

high resolution version for printing here:
http://somnamblst.tripod.com /

[Gregorian]

50. This is exactly the way to run our Democracy. We are the media.

I've been saying the same thing. We are the media. We will always have the right to speak, or it won't be America. The problem is that there are so many who don't know, and don't care.
Unless I travel, I can't help out with this, though. I live in the most democrat filled county in the country. I would be passing these all over the place if it weren't for that.
One big problem I see is the resistance to not just pay attention, but to even entertain other thoughts. Most of the republicans I've met are unwilling to even give the slightest amount of effort to think at all. I really think it's genetic. I was repulsed by conservatives since I was a young child. It just went against all I believed it.
Well, enough of me and my blabbing. It's nice to know you are out there. Thank you so much for your concern and effort. It's not easy going up against ignorance.

[roseBudd]

51. But you can help create buzz that will force the national media

to cover the story.

Guerilla marketing is promotion that doesn't cost any money. It just takes your time to implement.

It does cost paper and ink but those costs are negibible and can be bourne by many.

Guerilla marketing means mystery is your friend and will help create buzz. Creating buzz allows you to use viral marketing.

Kerry is our product and we must help market him by mocking his opponent.

This election IS about whether Bush deserves another 4 years. I would argue his utter incompetence in the first 9 months says he does not. The print piece I created presents the 8/6/01 PDB as evidence that he does not deserve 4 more years and mocks him in the process.

Other should argue that the war in Iraq indicates that he does not and create a print piece that reveals his flaws and mocks him in the process.

[Gregorian]

57. I see! I'll get the printer out, and start printing, then.

I think you should post this in the main forum. If we all start putting these on windshields, there will be media coverage.

[Catfight]

52. It's fact Bush had a PDB that informed him that "Al Queda

was Determined...not maybe, not possibly, DETER MINDED to attack within the United States," possibly using airplanes as weapons and fly them into buildings. Bush's lack of alertness, his inability to connect the dots on 9/11 and instead ignoring and forgetting the warnings makes him culpable and negligent and unfit to be a leader of ANY thing.

9/11 Families should be pouring money toward John Kerry, endorsing John Kerry and DEMANDING Bush go under oath and publicly answer his contradictory actions and in-actions on that fatal morning.

BUSH FAILED 9/11!

[Nordic]

56. half of New Yorkers believe Bushco let it happen on purpose

And the media isn't TOUCHING this story.

Even though said fact is a big fucking story.

[Guaranteed]

60. This makes us look nuts.

We don't need this.

Bush was incompetent, yes. He covered up the investigation because of his Saudi ties, yes. He invaded a country that never attacked or threatened us, yes.

But in making the assertion that he had something to do with the attacks themselves we're only destroying our own credibility, even it's true- which I don't think it is.

[pretzel4gore]

62. ahhaah! you starting to see it!

'they' havent even got a face, address or definition, but we know they are the rightwing element of the military industrial complex, which includes hollywood and the media. reagan and geebush both are patently unfit to run a modern mega state, especially one which is humankind's biggest fukin investment....the USA; which is almost certainly why reagan and geeb got the office. The wildcard in any political situation, most pol sci students acknowlege, is a 'free' electorate, and in the US case, fairly well armed, acting out of panic or uncontrolled info. BGS, somewhere there are groups of old white men discussing precisely what you posted, and they are backed by trillions of $ and nuklear forces, yet they shit themselves at very thought the truth could, by accident or design, slip out.
They could have very easily killed president kennedy w/out all that hollywood stunt stuff at dealey plaza, but did it the way they did cuz john mccain type, congress, the UN etc need to be told: you're powerless ....
the fix is in, but 'they' don't trust it completely. also, the truth that our political system is spiked maybe too godawful to think about...

[Minstrel Boy]

64. You've seen the Zogby poll, right?

50% of New Yorkers.

"Look nuts"

The White House called Howard Dean "bizarre conspiracy theorist" for telling the truth about terror alerts.

"we're only destroying our own credibility, even if it's true"

If it's true, and you do nothing, what's your credibility worth?

[lovuian]

63. bingo

:argh:

[graphixtech]

68. NEW photo album showing NYC protest and 911Truth images

http://media.digitalstyledesigns.com/

[ElsewheresDaughter]

70. i'm a chiorgirl