Bob Dole Joins Vietnam POWs to Unveil Documentary

[Nambe]

© 2004 U.S. Newswire

.. When John Kerry appeared before the U. S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee in the spring of 1971, his anti-war testimony accusing American soldiers of barbaric acts in Vietnam sent shock waves throughout America and the world. In a new documentary 'STOLEN HONOR: WOUNDS THAT NEVER HEAL', former POWs tell their compelling and chilling stories of their brutal life as prisoners of war in North Vietnam and the additional suffering and extended captivity they endured after their North Vietnamese captors read to them John Kerry's testimony accusing American soldiers of atrocities and demanded they confess to Kerry's "war crimes" allegations.

The surviving men and their families, who felt betrayed by Kerry, speak out through STOLEN HONOR against the lies, false testimony and distortions made by young Kerry in the early 1970's. Funding for the documentary was made possible by Pennsylvania Veterans. ..

[Wickerman]

1. Someone should tell that senile old f*ck Dole that he wasn't in 'Nam

I know, I know - he still should stay out of this crap - his scoring points against Kerry on this bogus issue does nothing to help in his already shabby legacy. There really are few issues left that he contribute to, shame to see him flame out on this.

[Leilani]

5. After Dole lost his race to Clinton,

he showed he had a good sense of humor, worked with Clinton on several projects that were non-partisan, raised money for WWII memorial, & had just about erased his reputation as a hatchet man.

With his crusade against Kerry, he becomes just another partisan hack.

[Wickerman]

7. precisely

that is what I intended to say, thanks for saying it better.

[KC21304]

21. Yea, right. As if they had CNN and C-Span. They just switched

on the ol tv and there he was. What a bunch of bullshit. Mc Cain said he never heard a word about Kerry all the while he was there.

[2Design]

2. Does this mean the new barbaric treatment we are doing to the

middle east should be condoned??????

What is their message here? That it was ok.

Yes it is horrible the POWs were treated badly....but why were we mutilating vietnam people.....excuse me ...justifying torture doesn't excuse these atrocities.

[wtmusic]

24. I don't get it either

Is the message that:

a) The war crimes never happened;

b) They actually happened but it's OK because we're the US of A;

c) The war crimes happened but don't bring it up because it shames us.

Would someone please 'nlighten me?

[Career Prole]

33. The message I'm getting is that the story of shrub's desertion

is hurting them. I couldn't be happier, because bush's desertion will remain after this new attack rightfully flames out.
McCain will also have to break loose of shrub's embrace to reiterate that he never heard shit about JK's testimony here while he was a prisoner there. :thumbsup:

[Ohio rules]

3. from the link;

STOLEN HONOR is produced by Red White and Blue Productions, Inc., an independent film producer based in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. The 45-minute documentary includes testimony from highly decorated POWs and their wives revealing the truth about North Vietnamese prison camps and the ongoing negative portrayal and treatment of Vietnam veterans resulting directly from John Kerry's testimony and anti-war activities more than 30 years ago.

Is this 45 minute film actually going to be on real TV?

[KansDem]

13. "ongoing negative portrayal and treatment of Vietnam veterans"

How will we know if we are watching this particular work or just the latest "news" release from the Bush Campaign?

[daleo]

26. Maybe Fox will run it

It wouldn't be a surprise if they did.

[Tempest]

4. Sent shockwaves throughout America and the world?

How much more dramatic can they get?

Really now, it barely caused a ripple.

[noahmijo]

6. And I suppose since these people are all about the truth and all that

A. They will state that Kerry's testimony "Winter Soldier" was based on the testimony of 150 other honorably discharged soldiers from interviews in Detriot.

B. Kerry spoke out very harsly against a government that was spitting on the soldiers as they got home, that was sending our boys off to die for a lie, that Kerry demanded the govt do something about those who were coming home to no jobs and poverty.

They will mention this right?

[The_Casual_Observer]

8. The move to rewrite the history of Viet Nam is now in full swing

1. We could have won the war if it hadn't of been for John Kerry
2. POW's suffered because of John Kerry's testimony
3. Kerry's testimony was treasonous.

This is the latest from these shitballs, as they will stop at nothing. The cheney remark yesterday was just the warm up. God help this planet if bush gets 4 more years.

[G_j]

9. So they really want to complain about war crimes accusations?

They are documented.
Keep bringing this up and those documented atrocities will be brought into the public light because of the interest generated.
Bring it on..

[The empressof all]

10. Here they go again----

Jeeze they must be promising Liddy a vp slot next go around for poor old Bob Dole to be acting so stupid and getting himself involved with this swill

[progressivebydesign]

19. Or perhaps that story about the 8k a week from Riggs Bank is related..

Whatever happened to that? It was reported last week. Riggs Bank? Bush family? Hmmmm...

[Bugaboo]

11. betrayed my ass...

100% misplaced blame.

I'm sorry anyone had to live through such a heinous experience, but it was not made worse because John Kerry was courageous enough to tell the truth.

If our soldiers hadn't committed war crimes in the first place, their captors would have had to read them The Very Hungry Caterpillar.

If the good ol' US of A hadn't been there to start with, there would have been ZERO prisoners of war.

geez. This is a culture war that's all about destroying the historical power of the anti-war movement.

[Disturbed]

12. War Crimes.

The N. Vietnamese were correct. The US Govt. did commit War Crimes and so did a portion of the troops. Do these Veterans deny this truth?

[struggle4progress]

37. Much of Kerry's testimony was about how the Vets were mistreated ...

... by the system upon their return home. His testimony clearly showed that he really cared.

[sofa king]

38. And they'll support a lying war starting deserter to win that culture war.

By trashing Kerry and supporting Bush, these people are indirectly endorsing the Gulf of Tonkin and WMD lies. They're supporting a man who walked away from duty while these very people were suffering in the Hanoi Hilton.

They're supporting an administration which obviously condoned treatment of prisoners very similar to the treatment they themselves received. And they support that administration's attempt to focus the fallout from that illegal act upon the soldiers who were following administration policy.

They've cashed in their honor for power, and that's a one-way transaction. John Kerry has very little to do with their suffering, and they have everything to do with their own dishonor and disgrace.

[blm]

14. They wanted to STAY in Vietnam and have their little brothers join them?

Their cousins? Their nephews?

Has any journalist bothered to ask them if their point is that they did NOT want the war to end?

[UpInArms]

15. Winter Soldier Investigation

http://lists.village.virginia.edu/sixties/HTML_docs/Resources/Primary/Winter_Soldier/WS_entry.html

Testimony given in Detroit, Michigan, on January 31, 1971, February 1 and 2, 1971

Table of Contents

Need for Investigation. Remarks by the Hon. Mark O. Hatfield of Oregon In the Senate of the United States, Monday, April 5, 1971.

Opening Statement of William Crandell
1st Marine Division
!st Air Cavalry Division
Weapons Panel
3d Marine Division
Racism Panel
"What Are We Doing To Ourselves?"
Prisoners of War Panel
Miscellaneous Panel
Third World Panel
"What Are We Doing to Vietnam?"
25th Infantry Division and Public Information Office
82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions and 173rd Airborne Brigade
1st, 4th, and 9th Infantry Divisions
Americal Division
Medical Panel
Closing Statement of Don Duncan



Updated Thursday, January 28, 1999

excerpt from "WHAT ARE WE DOING TO OURSELVES?"
Part I

Many vets feel that they are ready to murder the first person who crosses them when they come back into society. This has partly to do with the course of the reflex of violence. It's a very simple and direct way to solve all problems. It renders them simple, and it's the way one is taught to solve them in Vietnam. But it also has to do with residual rage over having been victimized in the way I've described by the society in being asked to fight this immoral, tainted, and unnecessary war; therefore the sense of being betrayed. Perhaps the greatest violence, or some of the most violent impulses that vets feel, are towards those who don't respond, who won't believe what happened over there, who, as the vets say, just don't give a damn. Because those people who resist the information or the truths of American atrocities and the details of the war, who resist knowing what the war is all about, are preventing the veteran himself from reaffirming or confirming the truth that he has learned and sharing it with a larger society. In other words, they are impairing his renewal, his return, as the vets themselves put it, to becoming a human being. They carry also a burden of numbing, desensitization, sometimes called dehumanization. When we talk about the issue of numbing or desensitization, some vets resent, and quite understandably, the term "dehumanization." What they really want to convey is the idea that what they went through in Vietnam was a temporary, desensitized state, where they could then commit or witness or not stop these atrocities, and that the desensitization is reversible; that there are ways to become human again.

[slojim240]

16. Someone has to prove that Kerry and the others were lying.

They just can't say it without proof. There were too many soldiers returning from Nam who confirmed and said many of the same things that the group Kerry was representing were saying.

[terrya]

17. This is the same miserable fuckface who referred to "Democrat Wars"

in his VP debate with Walter Mondale in 1976. Bob Dole hasn't changed one goddammned bit. He's a slimy piece of shit.

Fuck Bob Dole.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

18. Dole and those particular Vietnam vets can kiss my rosey red butt....

...and if they go too far, somebody is going to start showing the footage of the aftermath of My Lai and hundreds of other documented Vietnam atrocities.

And while we're at it, let's roll out the gory details of Operation Phoenix, the CIA-backed assassination program aimed at killing those Vietnamese leaders...AND their families...who supported the Viet Cong. A tactic used by the Phoenix teams was to steal into an enemy-influenced village under the cover of darkness while everyone was asleep, and slit the throats of the village chief and his entire family to include women and children. Sometimes they would behead the unfortunate victims and leave their heads on poles in the center of the village to be found in the morning. Nice, huh? Think any of those acts may qualify as an atrocity?

The North Vietnamese captors of our POWs didn't turn up the heat just because of Kerry's testimony before Congress. IMHO, Kerry's testimony had very little bearing on the treatment of the POWs. They turned up the heat in response to the massive and indiscriminate U. S. bombing campaign over North Vietnam, a bombing campaign that cost the North Vietnamese hundreds of thousands of lives.

Is this a direction where Dole and his new buddies really want to go? The Vietnam War was too well documented for them to get away with yet another attempt to smear John Kerry.

I also find it surprising that Dole, a man that fought and was wounded in WWII, would back up a cowardly slimeball like FratBoy.

[BootinUp]

20. Well, its just depressing because

we can't win this argument, nobody can win it. Its like the abortion issue. More divisive politics. *sigh*

[PROGRESSIVE1]

22. Bob Dole is Satan!

:Puke:

[Catfight]

23. Did Dole reiterate how Kerry didn't bleed enough for any medals? nt

[riverwalker]

25. Kerry was trying to prevent more POW's

Why isn't the anger of these guys directed at the policies that sent them there in the first place? What is wrong with these guys? There are hundreds of books written about the Vietnam War, and all of them describe atrocities. They want us to think Kerry was the ONLY one talking about it?

[Career Prole]

30. Exactly. And Kerry did help greatly in stopping the carnage.

I'm glad he did it

[leesa]

27. Hey, if they did the crime...

[DeepModem Mom]

28. kick

[Supersedeas]

29. Is TWEETY still concerned about issues--did Dole drop a Viagra too late

[July]

31. Maybe this is an obvious question, but

if Kerry's testimony was used this way (which I doubt), why didn't we hear about it during the primaries, or during his Senate campaigns?

[Career Prole]

32. Red White and Blue Productions? Oh, my achin' Balzac. Can't these

people sell anything on the merits?
Time to round up the guys who were ahead of the Deserter in Chief on the TANG waiting list and were bypassed for their lack of political connections. We need to ask them how their Vietnam experience enriched their lives.

[malachi]

34. Gen Tommy Franks agrees with Kerry on Hannity

From The Daily Howler. Scroll down toward the end of the article for the transcript of the show. Franks fucks up every lame premise about VN atrocities that hannity can come spew forward. But we all know that Franks is a flaming liberal.

http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh080504.shtml

[wildflower]

35. To my view, the argument made by this documentary is exactly the same as

the one expressed earlier this year by the RW about prison torture in Iraq: that the media's exposure of it would cause the U.S. troops over there to be treated worse. Then the RW held up various events as evidence of this cause-effect relationship.

Maybe they are right in some instances; maybe not. BUT while they decry the _coverage_ of the atrocities, the _real_ problem is avoided: that the atrocities occurred in the first place.

It also occurs to me that the parallel above will be highlighted if the Kerry documentary comes out at roughly the same time as Sy Hersch's recent work.

-wildflower

[struggle4progress]

36. I bet it's mostly the same old urban legends. eom