Memos Show Bush Suspended From Flying (WH releases new docs)

[RamboLiberal]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=2&u=/ap/20040909/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_national_guard

The White House released memos Wednesday night saying that George W. Bush was suspended from flying fighter jets for failing to meet standards of the Texas Air National Guard.

The Vietnam-era memos add new dimensions to the bare-bones explanation of Bush's aides over the years that he was suspended simply because he decided to skip his annual physical exam. The exam was scheduled during a year in which Bush left Texas, where he had been flying fighter jets, to work on a U.S. Senate campaign in Alabama.

<snip>

A third Killian memo makes clear that Killian was concerned from the outset over Bush's plan to go to Alabama because the military had spent a substantial sum of money turning Bush into a pilot and that his National Guard duties might suffer if he went elsewhere.

"Phone call from Bush," Killian wrote in a May 19, 1972, memo. "Discussed options of how Bush can get out of coming to drill from now through November. ... Says that he is working on another campaign for his dad. ... We talked about him getting his flight physical situation fixed ... Says he will do that in Alabama if he stays in a flight status."

The memo added that Bush "has this campaign to do and other things that will follow and may not have the time. I advised him of our investment in him and his commitment."

Don't forget to rate the story.

CBS has docs up.

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/BushGuardmay4.pdf

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/BushGuardmay19.pdf

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/BushGuardaugust1.pdf

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/BushGuardaugust18.pdf

[RobertSeattle]

1. The White House released...?

For month we've heard Rush/Hannity/et al say "All the Bush Military Records have been released" - don't tell me they've been lying!

/sarcasm

[Cha]

2. And Why would the WH

release damaging records on their little georgiepoo?

[liveoaktx]

5. Because Sixty Minutes already had them?

I find that curious. If they had THOSE records, what else do they have?

[Cinic]

63. Apparently...

...the White House released the memos after receiving them from CBS. Links to the WH release show the fax header atop the page.

I'm not saying that they don't have them, but now we'll never know.

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Realityhack]

70. Not a mabey

They are definately fake. Check out the PO# and Zip code. When everything is added together there is virtualy 0 chance these are real.

RH

[Seabiscuit]

75. Oh, come on.

Unlike you, apparently, I was an adult in the 70's. And yes, I can confirm that expressions like "sugar coat", "run interference", and "CYA" were alive and well in the early 70's.

Sounds like you're "running interference" for Matt Drudge to "sugar coat" his "CYA" lying BS story.

[Seabiscuit]

73. But of course.

And the really funny thing is how some right-wingers are now trying to pretend (e.g. see the interview with Dan Rather asking him if CBS is going to retract them) that the documents are forgeries.

Well, if they're forgeries, the WH just released forgeries as well!

And isn't it funny how after all these months of pretending these documents were lost somewhere in the Pentagon, the WH suddenly releases them 2 minutes after CBS does?

:wtf:

[lady lib]

78. Okay, you're probably right...

I stand corrected about the language (sorry!!) and I sincerely hope -for our side that the documents are entirely real. (I asked to have my original message removed.)

[oldhat]

11. They're sitting on something big

release damaging records on their little georgiepo

Wow. If they're releasing these documents, they're sitting on something else!

How does that Clapton song go?

[Virginian]

48. What's happening with the Plame investigation?

Haven't heard anything about it in a few weeks. Is it still breathing?

[Seabiscuit]

74. The WH is doing its damndest,

through its media whores, to bury that investigation and keep the public focused on the Swift Boat Liars, Jacko, etc.

[sam sarrha]

77. I bet on.'he was working for the CIA and the evidence is still classified'

end of story. :shrug:

[Cha]

3. It was a 2.96..

[alittlelark]

7. It was 2.96 after I voted too

so was the 'Navy said b*sh lied.." Yahoo story - 2.96

Rather Odd.....

[fob]

15. Still 2.96 - I gave itt a 5 with 1551st vote and went back to copy rating

Thu, Sep 09, 2004
Search for Advanced
You have given the news article Memos Show Bush Suspended From Flying a rating of 5.
Its current average rating is 2.96 with 1564 vote(s).

[Virginian]

47. 2.96 after I voted -- nearly 12 hours later.

[TacticalPeek]

4. Kick.

:kick:

Bwaaahahahahahahah!

:evilgrin:

[Demonaut]

6. if this had been known in 2000 he would not have been selected pres

he wouldnt even had been on the ballot

[punpirate]

8. Hmmm... White House releases memos???

Gee--they said they made a complete release of records months ago. There was nothing left to release, they said.

"... if he stays in a flight status." Since when was it up to Bush to decide that? No matter--he didn't take the physical.

"I advised him of... his commitment." And yet, this commander signed off on a discharge that very likely was illegal under existing ANG regulations.

There's one standard for the politically influential, and another for the rest of us. No wonder so many people are put off by politics and politicians. They see people like Bush gaming the system for their own advantage too frequently to believe that the system is ultimately fair. If there's to be one legacy for Bush and his cronies, it should be that they always felt that the system never in their lives applied to them.

[noamnety]

33. one standard for Bush

another for the rest of us.

I can see that being a good catch phrase.

[RamboLiberal]

9. Get the lawyers on this

Note this little paragraph buried in an AP story tonight:
"After the <60 Minutes> broadcast, the White House, without comment, released to the news media two of the memos , one ordering Bush to report for his physical exam and the other suspending him from flight status."
Yeah, you better not have a comment until you talk to your lawyers because it looks like you just got caught in a conspiracy to withhold documents that you were legally bound to have already released under the Associated Press' earlier FOIA request.

The White House claimed they had released ALL the documents, now tonight, conveniently after 60 Minutes shows the NEW documents on TV, the White House somehow releases the very documents it said it never had? Where did the documents come from, and why didn't the White House release them BEFORE 60 Minutes exposed their existence? And finally, what else is the White House hiding?

http://americablog.blogspot.com/archives/2004_09_05_americablog_archive.html

[oldhat]

10. LMAO! Kick! Kick! KICK THE HABIT GEORGE!

[Crachet2004]

12. It is the Cocaine, for certain. The year at project PULL, at the MLK cntr

And the fact he was issued an entirely new DL number...SS number too? Anyway, they take your DL if you are busted for drugs, NOT just for dui's.

Bush was in a LOT of trouble back then, and it was Cocaine. Bath was in on it...he got a new DL, too.

Somewhere, somebody knows the whole story, and evidently Dan Rather was on the trail, these past couple of weeks he has been missing. Dan is from Texas too, I guess.

If they pin a Cocaine conviction on Bush, it would be so SWEET!

Already they having him dodging alert status, and basically being AWOL.

But that isn't the real story.

The real story is Cocaine...I just KNOW it!

[Catfight]

52. I think you're right, it's COCAINE that is the most embarrassing. I

wonder why Rove decided to make Bush his student to be President with such a bad background of drug abuse, alcohol abuse, skipping out on his duties, failing every endeavor and going bankrupt with all his ventures? I guess Rove loves a real challenge, to make the impossible possible, because this is a great example of how with the right marketing you can make Mother Teresa the devil.
I'd love to know what Rove's childhood was like because he has to be the most successful psychopath to ever get as far as he has without being put into a mental institution. He's brilliantly mad.

[midnight armadillo]

55. He found a ruthless candidate!

Bush has no apparent scruples or morals and is willing to do and say
anything to achieve and hold office. He's the perfect Rove candidate, and in turn Rove spun a new public persona for Bush that swept away all the old sins.

Bush may be born-again, but it's a political spin fostered by Rove, not religious !!

[Jackpine Radical]

66. A technicality--they don't generally put psychopaths into

mental institutions. They put thim in prison.

[TahitiNut]

13. (Sheesh!!) That 18 August 1972 Memo to File is DAMNING!

SUBJECT: CYA

1. Staudt has obviously pressured Hodges more about Bush. I'm having trouble running
interference and doing my job. Harris gave me a message today from Grp regarding
Bush's OETR and Staudt is pushing to sugar coat it. Bush wasn't here during rating
period and I don't have any feedback from 187th in Alabama. I will not rate. Austin is
not happy today either.

2. Harris took the call from Grp today. I'll backdate but won't rate. Harris agrees.

---

This is a smoking gun. This describes political pressure to falsify military records. Even backdating a form is a fraud. Signatures are dated.

This is criminal.

I'm willing to bet that the Alabama "campaign" was a total falsehood, with the cooperation of a political crony. (Alabama politics in those days was as crooked as it got.)

Letters to DimSon are addressed to Houston ... where it's "speculated" he was doing 6 months of mandatory community service as a plea bargain for a drug bust.

The White House is using this fraud to cover up yet another fraud.

Peel the onion!

[crickets]

23. Chopper,

sic balls!

[ruggerson]

14. This is bigtime, guys

Coverup. The press can't ignore this now. This is deliberate obstruction of a FOIA request.

[FightingIrish]

16. Is there something else here?

The phrase "failure to perform to USAF/TexANG standards" refers to something separate from missing his flight physical. That could cover a multitude of sins. He must have really screwed the pooch. The records that were purged while he was governor probably told quite a story that we may never hear.

[lumpy]

28. Failure to perform to USAF/TexANG standards

could mean anything from disorderly conduct unbecoming to an officer to criminal behavior.

[indypaul]

53. How about

he either refused to pee in the bottle or did so
and flunked. Which is it? No further questions.

[burrowowl]

17. Does this mean he was more than AWOL

Does this mean desertion?

[crickets]

24. AWOL for more than 30 days

is desertion. That's been a given for some time now, as much as Bush would love to deny it. Desertion during wartime is a capital offense, and there is no statute of limitations for court martial.

...hmm. Wasn't someone recently asking about *'s habit of sweating profusely in public?

[burrowowl]

26. Thanks for the answer

It does seem he wasn't around for a year.
Ain't this a great country or what, even a deserter can become pResident in a coup d'etat.

[Virginian]

45. Can he even be court marshaled after receiving an "Honorable" discharge?

[crickets]

59. Good question

I don't know.

[Seabiscuit]

76. Exactly. I'm tired of hearing of Bush as AWOL.

Bush was a DESERTER! He should have been imprisoned!

[wadestock]

50. All it means is....

He got an "honorable discharge"....and I know a number of friends from Nam that did all sorts of crap...but then got these honorable discharges. One was so bad he couldn't even make it through basic, but he got an early out and honorable discharge. W also most probably got the honorable discharge through his father's influence (and family whatever).

In comparison, the Swiftboad Vets Against Kerry have argued all sorts of pathetic weak arguments in terms of Kerry exploiting the "system". On a scale of 1 to 100 , 100 being worse exploitation.....W is a 100. Kerry is a 3.

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

18. why isn't the fact that he was discharged from a colorado

unit being mentioned. wasn't this supposed to be a disciplinary unit?

[benfranklin1776]

58. Yes the Colorado Unit he was discharged from was a disciplinary unit.

According to CalPundit who has thoroughly investigated the matter back in February of this year:

"ARF is the reserves, and among other things it's where members of the guard are sent for disciplinary reasons. As we all know, Bush failed to show up for his annual physical in July 1972, he was suspended in August, and the suspension was recorded on September 29. He was apparently transferred to ARF at that time and began accumulating ARF points in October.

ARF is a "paper unit" based in Denver that requires no drills and no attendance. For active guard members it is disciplinary because ARF members can theoretically be called up for active duty in the regular military, although this obviously never happened to George Bush.

To make a long story short, Bush apparently blew off drills beginning in May 1972, failed to show up for his physical, and was then grounded and transferred to ARF as a disciplinary measure. He didn't return to his original Texas Guard unit and cram in 36 days of active duty in 1973 — as Time magazine and others continue to assert based on a mistaken interpretation of Bush's 1973-74 ARF record — but rather accumulated only ARF points during that period. In fact, it's unclear even what the points on the ARF record are for, but what is clear is that Bush's official records from Texas show no actual duty after May 1972, as his Form 712 Master Personnel Record from the Texas Air National Guard clearly indicates:

Bush's record shows three years of intense service, followed by a fourth year in which his enthusiasm apparently waned, followed by no service at all in his fifth and sixth years. This is because ARF duty isn't counted as official duty by the Texas guard."

http://www.calpundit.com/archives/003220.html

[DemBones DemBones]

19. Everyone who reads this needs to rate the story at Yahoo

because the yahoos at FR are giving it low ratings.

Other good Yahoo stories to read and rate:


Sen. Graham says White House witheld 9/11 info

http://tinyurl.com/5jyxr

Records show Bush* balked at order (disobeyed direct order to get flight physical)

http://tinyurl.com/5ks6p


The Yahoo URLs on those stories were long, one 70 charactersm one 364 characters, so I converted them at

http://tinyurl.com

which is a very handy thing to know about. :hi: to new DUers!

[TahitiNut]

20. It's now #1 in "Most Viewed"

Freepers shoot themselves in the foot.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=index&cid=1776


It should probably be noted that "burying" a Yahoo! story also includes rating obscure stories with a '5' to drive down the embarassing one. Patriots? Yeah. Right.

[Only Me]

21. Done. n/t

[Whoa_Nelly]

22. IMO Media Whore News

This is more media whore news. In a backhanded way, this article works to discredit Bush, yet also diligently works to give Bush credit.

From the article:

Asked about Killian's memo which gives two reasons for Bush's suspension, Bartlett told CBS, "That might be official language." Bartlett said "the records have been clear for years that President Bush (news - web sites) did not take a physical because he did not need to take a physical because, obviously, the choice was that he was going to be performing in a different capacity."
(So, working on a Rebulican's campaign is working in the same capacity as serving one's country? The hidden analogy floors me here.)

Asked about Killian's statement in a memo about the military's investment in Bush, Bartlett told CBS: "For anybody to try to interpret or presume they know what somebody who is now dead was thinking in any of these memos, I think is very difficult to do."

On Tuesday, the Defense Department released more than two dozen pages of records about Bush and his former Texas unit. They showed Bush flew for 336 hours in military jets after his flight training and ranked in the middle of his class.
(Gee...ya think this is or isn't appealing to the general sheeple attention...? This paragraph alone makes Georgie an OK middle class guy.)

[MO_Dem]

62. I think it's kinda funny that

they report that Duhbya was in the "middle of his class". No. 22 out of 53 seems to be the BOTTOM HALF to me. Spin, spin, spin!

[LeftCoast]

25. 2.96 with 1792 vote(s). at 11:23 PST

Strange how that 2.96 number keeps hanging around....

[AnnitaR]

27. "the officer has made no attempt to meet his training certification..."

Holy crap that is one very bad sentence for AWOL!

Check out this link for additional info on all this:
WHITE HOUSE CAUGHT IN COVER UP
http://americablog.blogspot.com/archives/2004_09_05_americablog_archive.html

[Supersedeas]

35. NO ATTEMPT---Very courageous, very virtuous...lots of integrity

[JDPriestly]

29. Proposal to reservists serving in Iraq

Let's suggest that Democratic reservists in Iraq request transfers to units in swing states so that they can work on the Kerry campaign. Surely Bush would understand and order Rumsfeld to allow them to do that. How could he refuse considering his own experience?

[dbt]

30. Kick!

The roof,
The roof,
The roof is on fi-yah!

:evilgrin:
dbt

[doc03]

31. Voted still at 2.96 with 2933 votes hmmmm! 8:15am est

[msmcghee]

32. And at 5:48 AM Pacific it's still . .

. . Its current average rating is 2.96 with 3326 vote(s).

[lazarus]

37. fascinating

2.96 with 3881 votes right now.

[wadestock]

34. Has anyone SEEN Bush fly an airplane?

I've asked this question before. I know a number of pilots, some who started from Nam service. Every single one of them has a pilot's licence and continues to fly. They are all AVID flyers....and actually go out of their way to be in the air.

Has anyone seen Bush pilot an airplane since his alleged fighter pilot training?

[RamboLiberal]

38. Anyone have that story about AWOL

taking someone up in a (Cessna?) and scaring the crap out of them? I know some DU'ers have posted before.

[Zech Marquis]

36. and only one question remains to be asked by CBS

why did * skip out on his medical exam, if nothing was wrong with him? especially when pilots are retrained for different jets all the time (the F-14 is being retired, so the navy has begun traiing 14 drivers to the Hornet)

no wonder he had such a good time wearing that flightsuit--probably the closest he got to actually fulfil his obligation! :argh:

[patcox2]

43. There are two possibilities, drugs, or deliberate effort to shirk.

Okay, its a nice soundbite, its easily understandable for the average clod, to say he would have failed because he was a cokehead.

But its actually pretty clear he was trying to finagle an early out of his commitment. On his request for transfer to Alabama, he put down that he was certified in a plane that had already been phased out, when this was obviously not true, and for god's sake, a fighter pilot certainly knows what plane he flies. And he also deliberately skipped his physical. From the information surfacing, it appears that he would not have been approved for a transfer to a unit that didn't have his kind of plane, so he lied to make it look like he wouldn't be flying anyway. It was all to make sure his request to transfer to Alabama would be approved, all part of a plan to make the TANG think they wouldn't miss him if he didn't drill because he was obsolete anyway.

[alarcojon]

39. Kick

:kick:

[goodboy]

40. Rating is being Freeped!!! 2.96??? BUllshit! Rate it! eom

[goodboy]

64. kick

:kick:

[Bread and Circus]

41. Wow, now this is juicy.

[molly]

42. It is 2.96 with 4332 votes

hey-hey-hey - this is just the tip of the iceberg!

[Vogon_Glory]

44. Our Poor Little Connie Friends Never Thought That...

Our poor little "conservative" friends doubtlessly never thought that they'd be reaping this whirlwind of acute embarassment concerning Gee Dubya Bush's military service records back when they were gleefully sowing the wind by shouting "Bill Clinton draft dodger," by trashing former vice president Al Gore's military service in Vietnam and then reviving the spurious Swift Boat claims. What goes around comes around...

Now if you'll excuse me, I've got a cyclone to watch, so I'm going to sit down, relax, and enjoy it...

:evilgrin:

[Ratty]

46. Freeper creepers crack me up!

They're ringing their hands trying to imagine ways the documents can be faked, spouting off conspiracy after conspiracy. They simply won't let themselves even consider the truth. They really really REALLY think Bush wasn't accepted into the National Guard due to family connections and behind the scenes string pulling? It's absurd to think how their arguments are stretched so thin and tenuously. An intelligent Republican, were such a thing to exist, would at least acknowledge the truth and spin the whole thing as if it didn't matter, wasn't relevant to the campaign, could be attributed to youthful largesse, etc.

Bush was a privileged, pampered son in a powerful, rich, political family. He felt himself to be above ordinary people, too good to follow mundane orders such as showing up for duty or soiling his hands in Southeast Asia. Such things were for the little people. Poppy would take care of all of it for him. That anybody could refuse to see this--whether or not they felt it important for the office of the presidency--boggles the mind.

[GOPAgainstGW]

49. FREE REPUBLIC IS HITLER AND STALIN WORSHIPPERS

AND TOTAL FLAKES!

THEY ARE REAL PROUD OF THIS TOTAL LOSER'S SUV, and people like "Unfit for Command" co-author KKK lover JEROME CORSI:

[MGKrebs]

51. 2.96 with 5633 votes

Either somebody has figured out an automated way to counter ratings, or yahoo's counter is broken, or we are in one of those wrinkles in the spacetime continuum.

[Az_lefty]

54. Rated 2.96 with 5878 votes?

This story's been freeped.

[Gregorian]

56. Here's another document I just found.

Actually, I stole it from someone. Manic, at b3ta. And I didn't even ask him. SO SUE ME! :)

Everything's fine. George is such a good boy.

[Zorra]

57. kick

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SoCalDem]

61. Yahoo customer service phone #... [phone]

They need to be "asked" about why the rating has not moved ..

[goodboy]

65. kick

:kick:

[Dr Fate]

68. SVBFT flack= 100% NEUTRALIZED.

n/t

[Realityhack]

69. Fakes

Check the PO# and Zip on the docs. For the un-initiated turn the zip upsidown on a calculator screen.
No way these are legit.
Sombody has a sense of humor though.

RH

[truthisfreedom]

71. 91 posts and you become the resident expert.

thanks but no thanks for your opinion.

[The_Casual_Observer]

72. So you missed. hEoLL not hello

34567 I guess I'm suppose to laugh.

BTW, Paul McCartney is dead, there are clues all over the album jackets! pass it on!

[DrWeird]

79. Denial's not just a river in Egypt.

Bush is a coward. Just like the people who vote for him.

Get over it.