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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 01:52 AM
Original message
Authenticity of memo to 'sugar coat' Bush record is further questioned
Authenticity of memo to 'sugar coat' Bush record is further questioned

12:11 AM CDT on Saturday, September 11, 2004

By PETE SLOVER / The Dallas Morning News


AUSTIN – The man named in a disputed memo as exerting pressure to "sugar coat" President Bush's military record left the Texas Air National Guard a year and a half before the memo was supposedly written, his own service record shows.

An order obtained by The Dallas Morning News shows that Col. Walter "Buck" Staudt was honorably discharged on March 1, 1972. CBS News reported this week that a memo in which Col. Staudt was described as interfering with officers' negative evaluations of Mr. Bush's service was dated Aug. 18, 1973.

That added to mounting questions about the authenticity of documents that seem to suggest Mr. Bush sought special favors and did not fulfill his service.

Col. Staudt, who lives in New Braunfels, did not return calls seeking comment. His discharge paper was among a packet of documents obtained by The News from official sources during 1999 research into Mr. Bush's Guard record.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/091104dnpolguard.117c8.html
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 01:53 AM
Response to Original message
1. Did Rove send an email blast to all of Texas? n/t
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Consider the following conspiracy theory
Let us assume that someone leaks to the media documents about Bush's TANG service that can easily be shown to be forgeries. What would the leaker gain out of this? Well, if you are a dirty trickster from the Bush campaign, you can use the debunking of the documents as a means to label as false all of the other stories about Bush's AWOL. The end result, CBS and Dan Rather lose credibility at a critical time in the campaign, the credible allegations about Bush get lumped together with the forgeries.

Meanwhile the media keeps talking about another Vietnam era story instead of focusing on the war in Iraq and other pressing issues the nation faces.
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alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 01:56 AM
Response to Original message
2. Why do we have to continue.....
.......you, selfish, cowardly piece of * .

My guy - EVERYTHING you are not.
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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 02:06 AM
Response to Original message
4. My God, these guys get away with MURDER!
The media is obviously our biggest enemy, even bigger than BushCo.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 02:09 AM
Response to Original message
5. And recently retired one stars have no bearing on the carreers
of young Liuteneant Colonels... aha... can somebody explain to the Dallas Mornng News the concept of Flagg Officer chain of contact?

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demoman123 Donating Member (565 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 03:27 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Your sarcasm is right on the money.
Staudt undoubtedly had pals in the Pentagon who could exercise all sorts of pressure on Killlian.
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City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #5
20. Exactly.
A certain retired cia head/ex-presidunce pops into my mind. Officially retired, but still undoubtly has pull.
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flordehinojos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 02:28 AM
Response to Original message
6. POPPY'S CUCARACHAS ARE WORKING HARD & FURIOUS TO GIVE POPPY'S BOY A
SHINING BRIGHT TANG RECORD.}(
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 02:53 AM
Response to Original message
7. aww, bullsh*t. just because someone retires doesn't mean he can't try
to exert influence.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 03:31 AM
Response to Original message
9. Have a look at these articles on Staudt,
Edited on Sat Sep-11-04 03:33 AM by BullGooseLoony
c/o Chili:

"...this is what Stuadt had to say THIS February in regards to questions about Bush:

‘‘I love the guy,” Staudt said of Bush. ‘‘I'm so tired of this negative crap about him that I'd like to volunteer to build a barn and take you press guys out behind it and kick your asses.”

From this article: http://www.spokesmanreview.com/breaking-news-story.asp?...

Good grief.

ETA: MORE...

"'Bush was sworn in as an airman the same day he applied. His commander, Col. Walter B. "Buck" Staudt, was apparently so pleased to have a VIP's son in his unit that he later staged a special ceremony so he could have his picture taken administering the oath, instead of the captain who actually had sworn Bush in. Later, when Bush was commissioned a second lieutenant by another subordinate, Staudt again staged a special ceremony for the cameras, this time with Bush's father the congressman – a supporter of the Vietnam War – standing proudly in the background.'

From another, older article from the WP: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns...

Oh, gag me. And THIS guy didn't clear the way for George every step of the way? Right."

-Chili http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=790151&mesg_id=790351&page=


Hee hee, swing and a miss by RoveCo.
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moondust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 03:37 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. And now he's not talking.
He's going to let it fester as long as possible before he says something/anything. Either way he is going to be exposed as a good ol' boy but not before the media have savaged Dan Rather and CBS.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. No, cuz we're gonna put these stories back out.
Edited on Sat Sep-11-04 03:40 AM by BullGooseLoony
Hell, they've already been written. Just turn 'em out again.
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #9
23. Staudt was friends with Bush Sr. and Sidney Adger before 1968
Staudt was not merely young Georgie's commanding officer. He knew both Bush Sr. and Sidney Adger through the Houston Chamber of Commerce Aviation Committee, going back to at least 1966, and had a continuing role in getting the sons of the rich and prominent into TANG.

Texas Speaker of the House Ben Barnes acknowledged that periodically distinguished residents of the state would contact his office requesting assistance in obtaining slots for their sons in the National Guard. Barnes denied that he ever received a call from the senior Bush or anyone else in the family, but he did acknowledge that Sidney Adger, an influential Houston oilman and long time friend of the Bushes, interceded on behalf of the young Bush. According to Barnes, Adger asked him to find a slot in the Air National Guard for Bush.

Another connection that the Bush family had was with Commander Walter "Buck" Staudt. He first met the senior Bush when he was a United States congressman and a member of the Houston Chamber of Commerce aviation committee. Staudt told the Washington Post that the young Bush was accepted immediately into the Air National Guard because there were "five or six openings for pilots." But later Staudt admitted to the Houston Chronicle that Bush's wealthy background helped him qualify for one of the slots.

<snip>

Staudt recommended Bush for a direct appointment which allowed him to become a second lieutenant right out of basic training without having to go through 23 weeks of training in the rigorous officer candidate school. The process also cleared the way for a slot in pilot training school. In July 1968, an examining board approved the direct appointment, finding that Bush's physical and moral characteristics were all "satisfactory." Staudt was a member of that board. But Staudt declined to estimate how many men received such special appointments. ... Air Force veteran Charles C. Shoemake, who later joined the Texas Air National Guard, said that direct appointments were rare and hard to get and that they required extensive credentials.


http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/jphuck/Book9.html


Now's it's not even clear that a George Bush didn't ask for help. When pressed, the former president's spokeswoman (Jean Becker) said he is "almost positive" that he and Mr. Adger never discussed the Guard matter. "He he is fairly certain - I mean he doesn't remember everything that happened in the 1960s..." In any case, Bush Sr. and Adger were very close. Ms. Becker acknowledged that "President Bush knew Sid Adger well. He loved him." Adger may have needed only a hint.

Furthermore, George Bush Jr. admits that he knew Adger socially at the time, and further admits that he lobbied Col. "Buck" Staudt, the commander of the VIP unit Bush joined. Staudt claims that he, not General Rose (who he later replaced), was the one who made the decision on admissions anyway. Bush Jr. admits that he met Staudt in late 1967, during Christmas vacation of his senior year, called him later, and -- in Bush's words -- "found out what it took to apply."

When asked how Bush came to call Staudt, his spokeswoman Karen Hughes said he "heard from friends while he was home over the Christmas break that ... Colonel Staudt was the person to contact." She says that Bush doesn't recall who those "friends" were. But we know that Sid Adger was also a friend of Staudt's, served with him on the Houston Chamber of Commerce's Aviation Committee, and in 1967 held a luncheon honoring Gen. Staudt and his unit for winning an Air Force commendation. In fact, both of Adger's sons also joined General Staudt's unit, in 1966 and 1968 respectively.


http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=004hoi
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qanda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
12. Ah, I don't think you have to be active duty to interfere...
Edited on Sat Sep-11-04 10:16 AM by pbl
Or pressure someone. They're grasping at straws.
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Demoiselle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. Exactly right, pbl
The "pressurers" are always passing the pressure along...not the source of it. Anybody can be a messenger, active or retired.
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GOPAgainstGW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
13. DUPE
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Onlooker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
14. Terrible headline, biased article
Edited on Sat Sep-11-04 09:53 AM by Onlooker
"The man named in a disputed memo as exerting pressure to "sugar coat" President Bush's military record left the Texas Air National Guard a year and a half before the memo was supposedly written."

So what? Are they saying that when you leave a job, you can't exert influence? That's ridiculous. The article is an embarrassment to journalism.
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pschoeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
15. Questions on Staudt's supposed retirement
Edited on Sat Sep-11-04 09:54 AM by pschoeb
When Bush joined up Staudt was a Colonel, at some time he is promoted to Brigadier General, when was this?

From my reading he was still a Colonel as late as 1970. In 1972 he would be 49, and just possibly recently promoted to General, why would he retire?

Is it possible he left TANG for regular AF? That is discharged from TANG in 1972, but not actually retired?

Notice the Dallas Morning News says he is a Colonel in his discharge, but I have read other stories that say he is a retired Brigadier General, is it possible he left TANG because he was offered a promotion to Brigadier General in regular AF?
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #15
22. Probably a retirement promotion
My husband says it happens as a regular practice that career officers get a bump in grade upon retirement so they can enjoy higher retirement pay. I assume this is the case with Staudt, though I haven't seen it stated explicitly.
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pschoeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. I don't think so, because he is supposed to be Head of TANG for awhil
Edited on Sat Sep-11-04 11:28 AM by pschoeb
There are some big issues here, Staudt is also supposed to be at some point Head of the whole Texas Air National Guard, this position is one which requires a Brigadier General rank. The title for the head of TANG is Assitant Adjutant General of the Texas National Guard

1968 Bush enters military
Brigadier General Rose is Assitant Adjutant General of TNG
Colonel Staudt is Commander of the 147th

Nov 1970 Bush Promoted to First Lieutenant
Brigadier General Rose still Assitant Adjutant General of TNG
Colonel Staudt is still Commander of the 147th


So from 1971-till mid 72 we have to believe Staudt becomes head of TANG and is promoted to Brigadier General and retires, all in a little over a year and half? Why would a 49 year old, who seems to love being well connected, retire when he reaches the pinnacle of his power as head of TANG.

I think the more likely scenario is that Staudt was promoted to head of TANG and made Brigadier General in 1972, and the papers the Dallas Morning News has pertain somehow to this.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
16. all these reckless charges
it's a mad rush to discredit Dan Rather, no matter how far they have to stretch. I guess they know there will be no consequences.

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emad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
18. Additional reporting from The Times:
Bush service papers denounced as hoax
From Roland Watson in Washington

THIRTY-YEAR-OLD memos questioning President Bush’s account of his Vietnam-era National Guard service were branded a crude hoax yesterday as the US presidential campaign became consumed by conspiracy theories. Experts in typography and typesetting lined up to question the documents’ authenticity, saying that they were the product of a modern computer rather than a 1970s typewriter. CBS News, which produced the documents and aired their claims that Mr Bush had skimped on his duties and refused orders to undergo a medical examination, was standing by its story last night.

Dan Rather, the network’s iconic anchor, who presented the story, insisted that the four memos were authentic and there had been no question of providing a retraction or apology. The family of the alleged author, Mr Bush’s squadron leader in the Texas Air National Guard in the early 1970s, said that they did not believe the memos were genuine. The dispute served to steer a backward-looking campaign even further into details of how Mr Bush and John Kerry, the Democratic challenger, spent the Vietnam war in Texas and the Mekong Delta, respectively. Barring the unlikely discovery that the disputed documents were produced on the orders of Mr Kerry or Karl Rove, Mr Bush’s chief strategist, the details of the affair are almost certainly not going to endure until polling day on November 2.

Time spent by the US media arguing over long-ago events does not, however, help Mr Kerry to try to claw his way back into the race. It is a given among many strategists that voters have made up their mind about Mr Bush’s character and past, both good and bad, and are unlikely to have their views changed by disclosures such as those in the memos, even if they are proved to be true. The Democrat candidate has tried to fire up his flagging campaign by pushing a more aggressive message on domestic issues such as the economy and healthcare. But a Washington Post poll yesterday underlined Mr Bush’s current primacy, giving him a nine-point lead over Mr Kerry. The surfacing of the documents, apparently signed by Lieutenant-Colonel Jerry Killian, raised awkward questions for the Bush campaign. They contradicted Mr Bush’s assertion that he won his coveted National Guard slot without his influential family pulling strings, and that he fulfilled all his responsibilities.

Colonel Killian, who died 20 years ago, wrote that Mr Bush had been trying to evade drills and had refused a medical exam. He said that he was under pressure from superiors to “sugar coat” Mr Bush’s record, and Mr Bush was “talking to someone upstairs” to engineer a move to Alabama. No sooner had the memos surfaced, however, than the internet was alive with questions. The letters in all four documents were spaced proportionately, which a computer does automatically, giving “i”s less space than “m”s or “w”s, rather than the monospacing used by typewriters. The font appeared to be Times New Roman, the default typeface in Microsoft Word and other word processing programs. Richard Polt, a professor from Xavier University in Cincinnati who runs a website dedicated to typewriters, said: “Either these are later transcriptions of earlier documents, or they are crude and amazingly foolish forgeries. I am 99 per cent sure that these documents were not produced in the early 1970s.” CBS said it had subjected the documents to authentication by outside experts. They also checked with Colonel Killian’s superior, Major-General Bobby Hodges. He said that the sentiments in the memos were the same as Colonel Killian had expressed to him. Marjorie Connell, Colonel Killian’s widow, said: “The wording in these documents is very suspect to me. I just cannot believe these are his words.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1256458,00.html





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amandabeech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Hodges has now backtracked.
In a brief article in its political notes section, ABC News reports that it has interviewed Hodges, and he says that he was mislead by CBS:

HODGES SAID HE WAS MISLEAD BY CBS

http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/Noted/Now/Noted_Now.html

Hodges said that CBS told him that they were reading to him from a handwritten document. Hodges reponse was that if Killian wrote it, then it's true, but did not state that he knew Killian's sentiments on the matter and that the memo reflected those sentiments.

Either someone got to him, or the Washington Post's story was based on inaccurate information.
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Catfight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
19. Roves same old tricks, try to get the opponent caught up in silly details.
CBS should follow up the story with Bush's ALLEGED cocaine use and keep it going. Also, it'd be nice if CBS kicked up the story about the torture and Bush signing orders to do it.
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