Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

More challenges about whether Bush documents are authentic

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU
 
TexasDem4life Donating Member (29 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 10:35 AM
Original message
More challenges about whether Bush documents are authentic
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationalpolitics/2002032742_bushguard11.html

AUSTIN, Texas — The man named in a disputed memo as exerting pressure to "sugarcoat" George W. Bush's military record left the Texas Air National Guard a year and a half before the memo supposedly was written, his service record shows.
An order obtained by The Dallas Morning News shows that Col. Walter "Buck" Staudt was honorably discharged March 1, 1972. CBS News reported this week that a memo in which Staudt was described as interfering with officers' negative evaluations of the future president's service was dated Aug. 18, 1973.

That added to mounting questions about the authenticity of documents that seem to suggest Bush sought special treatment as a pilot, failed to carry out a superior's order to undergo a physical exam and was suspended from flying for failing to meet Air National Guard standards.

Staudt, who lives in New Braunfels, Texas, did not return calls seeking comment. His discharge paper was among documents obtained by The Morning News from official sources during 1999 research into Bush's Guard record.

A CBS staffer stood by the story, suggesting Staudt could have continued to exert influence over Guard officials. But a former high-ranking Guard official disputed that, saying retirement would have left Staudt powerless.

Authenticity of the memo and three others included in Wednesday's "60 Minutes" report came in for heavy criticism yesterday, prompting an unusual, on-air defense of the original work. Experts on typography said the memos appeared to have been computer-drafted on equipment not available at the time.

And the widow and son of the officer who supposedly wrote them, Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, who died in 1984, have said it wasn't his nature to keep detailed personal notes.

In its news broadcast yesterday, CBS said the documents were supported by both unnamed witnesses and others, including document examiners.

CBS anchor Dan Rather earlier told The Dallas Morning News that he had heard nothing to make him question the legitimacy of the memos. He attributed the backlash to partisan politics and competitive journalism.

"This story is true. The questions we raised about then-Lieutenant Bush's National Guard service are serious and legitimate," he said. "Until and unless someone shows me definitive proof that they are not, I don't see any reason to carry on a conversation with the professional rumor mill."

The Washington Post quoted Rather as saying CBS had talked to two people who worked with Killian — his superior, retired Maj. Gen. Bobby Hodges, and his administrative assistant Robert Strong — and both described the memos as consistent with what they knew of Killian. Hodges, who told CBS he was "familiar" with the documents, is an avid Bush supporter and "it took a lot for him to speak the truth," the Post quoted Rather as saying.




The Los Angeles Times, however, later quoted Hodges as saying that he believed the memos from Killian were not real. A CBS news executive confirmed that Hodges had changed his story.

Rather's interview with The Morning News concluded before the newspaper determined the date of Staudt's departure, but a CBS staffer with extensive knowledge of the story said later that the departure doesn't derail the story. "From what we've learned, Staudt remained very active after he retired," the staffer said, speaking on condition of anonymity. "He was a very bullying type, and that could have continued."

In the "60 Minutes" report, Rather said of the memo's contents: "Killian says Col. Buck Staudt, the man in charge of the Texas Air National Guard, is putting on pressure to 'sugarcoat' an evaluation of Lt. Bush."

Staudt was the person Bush initially contacted about Guard service, and he was the group commander at Ellington Air Force Base in Houston when Bush arrived there to fly an F-102 jet. He transferred later to Austin, where he served as chief of staff for the Air National Guard.

In the disputed memo, Killian supposedly wrote "(another officer) gave me a message today from group regarding Bush's (evaluation) and Staudt is pushing to sugarcoat it."

It continues: "Austin is not happy either."

The CBS staffer said the memo appears to recognize that Staudt has retired, since it differentiates between his displeasure and that of Austin, where he served his final Guard stint.

But another Texas Air National Guard official who served in that period said the memo appears to wrongly associate Staudt with his group command in Houston, and — based on that mistake — the memo distinguishes his views from that of the Austin Guard.

Retired Col. Earl Lively, director of Air National Guard operations for the state headquarters during 1972 and 1973, said Staudt "wasn't on the scene" after retirement, and that CBS' remote-bullying thesis makes no sense.

"He couldn't bully them. He wasn't in the Guard," Lively said. "He couldn't affect their promotions. Once you're gone from the Guard, you don't have any authority."

Bush has not commented publicly about the CBS report, and aides say his honorable discharge proves he fulfilled his obligations.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
1. His honorary discharge doesn't mean he fulfilled his obligations
it means he used his power and influence to get what he wanted. If you look at Shrub's history, this is exactly what he has done all his life.

As to these recent memos-whether they are authentic or not, they do not disprove the facts that Bush was given preferential treatment to get into the Guard and that he didn't fulfill his obligations(at the very least, he didn't take his flight physical). These are facts that are not in dispute. One good thing about all this is that these facts are repeated over and over by the media in explaining the memo story.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
2. Still here?
:freak:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. TexasDemTilTombstone
:-)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Gonna have to buy more land...
... for the new cemetary.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DulceDecorum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #4
16. Nah, it's the same three guys
with an account at Kinkos.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
5. Why doesn't Bush simply answer the questions?
Edited on Sat Sep-11-04 10:47 AM by htuttle
Was he ordered to take a physical, and did he take it? If not, why not?
Was he suspended from flight status for not taking a physical? If so, why?
Did he show up in Boston and Alabama? If not, why not?

Simple questions. If the documents represent nothing but scurrilous charges, Bush has nothing to worry about, does he?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
snippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Evidently, Bush acknowledges the content of the memos as true. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
My Pet Goat Donating Member (268 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
6. Freeper desperation?
So former military officials don't have any influence? Riiiight. That's what goes on today too, when high ranking military officials leave the military, their influence is over. :eyes:

Wonder why the "former high-ranking Guard official" who said that "retirement would have left Staudt powerless" never identified himself? Could it be that it was too stupid for words and he wanted to remain anonymous?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
indie_voter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
8. Like it or not, CBS is going to have to come out swinging
I hope they have tapes of their conversation with this guy. I also hope their source has the original memo.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
9. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
TexasDem4life Donating Member (29 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. I am NOT!!! N/T
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Onlooker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Then establish your legitimacy by ...
(1) Posting some positive stories (about other subjects)
(2) Telling us where you are getting your info, particularly the claim of the memo matching "perfectly" overlays of MS word typefaces
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
K. F. Gibbons Donating Member (141 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
10. The Bush Campaign loves this. This is more than enough then is needed
for them to discredit Rather.
Rather needs new and better info.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
alcuno Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
11. Who cares? Is there anyone who actually thinks * served in Alabama?
Joe Scarborough and Pat Buchanan were laughing it up the other night saying that * probably doesn't even know what he was doing in Alabama.

His honorable discharge proves that he got an honorable discharge. I don't think anyone thinks he got it because he did his duty.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
14. The documents are authentic
Deal with it! The truth is out about the vile POS in the White House, and no matter how much his vermin supporters rant, scream or stand on their pointy little heads, the truth will stand. Hopefully more truths about the criminal will follow.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
15. ZZZZZzzzzzzz......
Wake me when aWol* says why he did not take the physical.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
17. Excuse please
Edited on Sat Sep-11-04 11:30 AM by LynnTheDem
You rightwingnut shill...

GET LOST.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-11-04 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
18. locking
copyright violation.

And anyone who thinks that a retired General has no influence has no clue what's going on in the military. Oh, wait, that'd be the Bushies and most freepers, wouldn't it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 19th 2024, 07:22 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Latest Breaking News Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC