Heavy fighting in central Baghdad

[dArKeR]

US helicopters fired off missiles and insurgents danced around a burning tank as the US military and gunmen battled for nearly three hours in central Baghdad.

The fighting climaxed shortly after 8 am, when an angry mob pelted a burning US tank with stones and danced around the armoured vehicle, an eyewitness said.

A pair of US helicopters then swooped down over the neighborhood and fired off missiles and heavy machine-gun fire at the mob, causing the crowd to run, an AFP reporter witnessed.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/iraq_unrest

So the American pilots were machine gunning these children throwing stones?
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/040912/photos_wl_me_afp/040912045208_yngyv6yc_photo0

[rumguy]

1. The angry mob thing

that doesn't sound good...

[Flubadubya]

28. It's just training for crowd control at home...

They're honing their skills on the Iraqi "insurgents" for when they come back and are needed by Homeland Security to help with the American "subversives".

[LisaL]

32. YEP.

First Iraqis, and then Americans who dare to disagree?

[fearnobush]

2. Nice!!! we have indeed liberated Iraq, they never felt so free to kill us

then ever before.

[The_Casual_Observer]

3. All the while they are pretending

that they are going to have an election. Who ever they "elect" wouldn't last 5 minutes on the streets of Baghdad.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Hold it, they took out a tank

Ok, them flowers and candy are becoming more capable by the day

Ok, ok an APC (Bradley) this should have some DoD types a tad worried...

[RamboLiberal]

7. They took out 3 tanks one day last week

reported as heavy fighting, 3 tanks disabled like it was no biggie.

I think taking out 3 US tanks is a very big thing and shows how we have lost control!

[dArKeR]

9. Without any joking, if the Iraqis had something to pierce the Bradley

this war would be over and the Iraqis would have won and killed 10,000 or more US soldiers. If Iraq was forested we'd have 30,000 dead and 100,000 wounded. I realize the FOX Media Whores want you to have a Terminator mind set and wrap yourself in an American flag without ever using your brain to think objectively but the above are the facts. What's happened to our troops proves this. I just hope the Iraqis don't figure out how to make something which can pierce the Bradley. I hope the Communist Chinese or Halliburton doesn't sell them some kind of uranium tipped RPG!

[nadinbrzezinski]

11. Remember before the war some in the

Iraqi leadership said this would be a second Nam... the jungles are urban

By the way, they just may have found something that does it, hence why if I were a DoD type I would be worried

Now terminator style... I have to say this, been under fire, I am as far from terminator mode as you can get

[madrchsod]

13. they do have a limited amount of

new Russian rpg`s that will go thru our tanks if aimed below the tank tread cover..early in the war a tank was hit with a rpg round that burned a small hole thru the plate then bounced around inside just missing the crew and the ammo..the bradley is a pretty soft target. sounds like it`s Mogadishu all over again

[slor]

22. I remember that story...

experts believe it was a Russian weapon.

[BrotherBuzz]

15. No joking, they already got something!

http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292236-2336437.php

SomethingÕ felled an M1A1 Abrams tank in Iraq Ð but what?

Mystery behind Aug. 28 (2003) incident puzzles Army officials

By John Roos
Special to the Times

Shortly before dawn on Aug. 28, an M1A1 Abrams tank on routine patrol in
Baghdad Òwas hit by somethingÓ that crippled the 69-ton behemoth.

Army officials still are puzzling over what that ÒsomethingÓ was.

According to an unclassified Army report, the mystery projectile punched
through the vehicleÕs skirt and drilled a pencil-sized hole through the hull. The
hole was so small that Òmy little finger will not go into it,Ó the reportÕs author
noted.

The ÒsomethingÓ continued into the crew compartment, where it passed through
the gunnerÕs seatback, grazed the kidney area of the gunnerÕs flak jacket and
finally came to rest after boring a hole 1* to 2 inches deep in the hull on the far
side of the tank.
<more>

[Bo]

37. Condi says were alright though....

The Token shill was on repeating mantras of the rovellian truth squad.
Why do Americans believs these people?

[BrotherBuzz]

40. Is we learning?

There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee -- that says, fool me once, shame on -- shame on you. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again. - Bush*, 17 Sept, 2002

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/09/20020917-7.html

[Strelnikov_]

19. They Do, It's Called The RPG-7

"A Weapon For All Seasons: The Old But Effective RPG-7 Promises to Haunt the Battlefields of Tomorrow"

http://fmso.leavenworth.army.mil/fmsopubs/issues/weapon.htm

"Tanks and other ground combat vehicles need to be protected against the RPG. Sandbagging and mounting reactive armor were reasonable solutions until the introduction of the anti-reactive armor PG-7VR tandem round. The best short-term solution appears to be fitting combat vehicles with a light-weight stand-off screen."

Here's my favorite part.

"When practical, the best way to protect ground vehicles from the RPG is to put infantry well forward of the vehicles to find and destroy the RPG gunners. Combat vehicles should stay out of urban areas or areas dominated by overwatching terrain and tall trees until the infantry has cleared and posted the area. "

[Aidoneus]

20. armoured vehicles in an urban setting..

are practically just fancy coffins. That is regularly shown in Grozny for years, among other places, and being slowly mastered by the Iraqi Moqawama as well. Armoured convoys and patrols do not enter most of the cities of Iraq's central front for fear of being destroyed by weapons almost any Iraqi could posses.

The RPG-7 (or the Chinese RPG-16) is a great equalizer on the ground--the most expensive militaries in the world can mangle most official State militaries and cowardly bomb & destroy whole cities from miles up, sure, but their occupations can be resisted by anybody and always will.

[Strelnikov_]

34. I Agree, Any Military Occupation Today Will Probably Be Difficult

As you say, the RPG-7, and the AK-47, are the great equalizers, when combat enters close quarters.

I laugh every time I hear about the "Land Warrior" concept, or how the military is adopting for the "urban battlefield" of the 21st century.

[ogradda]

5. flowers!

no no iraqies!! you throw flowers not stones! listen to the president!

[Ms. Clio]

16. They got the memo, but said it was forged n/t

[daleo]

6. It sounds like some U.S. troops must have been killed

Between a burning tank, and shooting rockets at a crowd from a helicopter, it sounds like a retribution response. The full news won't come out for a few days, probably.

[grasswire]

8. God help all those young men and women...

...who must be terrified. And their loved ones at home ... my heart is breaking for everyone who has a family member in Iraq.

[dArKeR]

10. One would hope that the fire was set by the children after our kids

evacuated!!

[lostnfound]

According to AlJaz, the tank occupants survived.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/9BE69E7B-058D-404F-81CB-43816BA7A5F0.htm
"The US military said the Bradley's crew of four were slightly wounded by the bomb and had been evacuated from the scene."

[lostnfound]

36. According to AlJaz, the tank occupants survived.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/9BE69E7B-058D-404F-81CB-43816BA7A5F0.htm
"The US military said the Bradley's crew of four were slightly wounded by the bomb and had been evacuated from the scene."

[expatriot]

12. when you see the burning tanks, it seems there'd be casualties but

but it is likely that what happens is these tanks are disabled, their crews rescued with other vehicles and heavy cover fire and then the disabled vehicles are left on the street to be demolished by the Iraqi crowds.

I mean that is the only logical reason how burning tanks don't equal KIA's.

[Ms. Clio]

14. Hey, look--more positive news from Iraq!

Nothing like a pair of US helicopters to help those liberated people really feel the love.

[Voltaire99]

17. Er, hello?! What's wrong with this picture?

From the AFP story:

The fighting climaxed shortly after 8 am, when an angry mob pelted a burning US tank with stones and danced around the armoured vehicle, an eyewitness said.

A pair of US helicopters then swooped down over the neighborhood and fired off missiles and heavy machine-gun fire at the mob, causing the crowd to run, an AFP reporter witnessed.

One of the mob was waving a black flag, emblazoned with the name Tawhid wal Jihad (Unity and Holy War), the organisation of suspected Al-Qaeda operative Abu Mussab al-Zarqawi.

To summarize:

-- Civilians throw rocks at a destroyed tank.

-- In response, a copter comes and fires bullets and rockets at them.

Is this Baghdad or the West Bank? Can we tell the difference any more?

[The_Casual_Observer]

21. This was a horrible scene

The US military has lost the fight. The Iraqis have won. What good are tanks against the will of a pissed off populace?

[IndianaGreen]

26. Not even Israel will open fire indiscriminately on a crowd

like the story describes. This is a blood feud on both sides. We kill one them. They avenge the death. We then avenge their avenging, and they in turn avenge our avenging of their avenging. This will go on and on until the US leaves Iraq as we did South Vietnam.

[lostnfound]

35. Good point. AlJaz headline "Witnesses: Apache fired on crowd"

And targeting reporters again, possibly. http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/9BE69E7B-058D-404F-81CB-43816BA7A5F0.htm

Most of the young Iraqi men and boys mingling around the burning wreckage of a US armoured car in Baghdad were unfazed by the clattering of an American helicopter gunship overhead. Moments later they were under fire.

Some had pointed to the Apache helicopter. Others jogged slowly from the burning Bradley fighting vehicle, which the US military said had been set ablaze by a bomb. None expected it would shoot at them.

Standing next to him, Fuad's colleague and friend Mazin Tumaizi, a producer for Dubai-based al-Arabiya, was killed as he prepared to give a stand-up piece to camera.

[Union Thug]

18. Mission Accomplished!

[Disturbed]

23. Support the troops

Send them back home.

Iraqis firing on their own unarmed protesters. US Army helicopter firing missles into unarmed crowds. The writing is on the bloody wall.

There will never be a "democracy" in Iraq. It has been a farce from the start of the illegal invasion. Does any soldier want to be the last on that dies for a Neo Fascist mistake?

[leftchick]

24. AP: Troops Battle Militants in Iraq; 13 Dead

Nothing about this on my TV this morning... :eyes:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040912/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq&cid=540&ncid=716

<snip>
BAGHDAD, Iraq - Militants pounded central Baghdad on Sunday with one of their most intense mortar barrages ever, targeting the Green Zone and destroying a U.S. vehicle along a major street. At least 13 people were killed and 55 wounded when a U.S. helicopter fired at crowds around the vehicle, Iraqi officials said.

<snip>
Rockets and mortars began raining down before dawn on the Green Zone, which houses Iraqi and U.S. offices, and other parts of central Baghdad. As the shelling continued after sunrise, U.S. troops backed by armored vehicles moved into the streets searching for the attackers.


Insurgents opened fire on the Americans, destroying a Bradley fighting vehicle on Haifa street, a major avenue in the center of the capital. The four U.S. crewmen escaped with minor injuries, U.S. officials said.


As the Americans withdrew, jubilant fighters and young boys swarmed around the burning vehicle, dancing and cheering. Several young men placed a black banner of al-Qaida-backed Tawhid and Jihad, led by terror mastermind Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, in the barrel of the Bradley's main gun.








A man hoists a flag of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi on a burning U.S. Bradley Fighting Vehicle at Haifa street in Baghdad, Iraq (news - web sites), Sunday Sept. 12, 2004. Fighting broke out early in the morning between U.S troops and insurgents and lasted for nearly 90 minutes as U.S. soldiers fired from positions behind walls and trees along Haifa Street. (AP Photo/Hussein Malla)

[msanthrope]

27. WTF!!!! "Bradley fighting vehicle "??????

Is that a Bradley tank???

Is that what we are calling a tank now? Because it sounds so much better for us to have lost something that sounds like a Humvee rather than a TANK.

God forbid the american public figure out that the Iraqis now can pierce our TANKS.....

Control the language, control the news.....

[Ohio rules]

29. Is it spin or just an ignorant reporter ?

Our own soldier bloggers mentioned they do not think the Bradley is the fighting vehicle of the future.

If that is the tank..then yes, it was intended to be neg spin.
You think reporters ( being the professionals they are )would know better by now.

Control the words and you control only the article.

but with multiple news sources and media's to choose from, the truth can be exposed.

Mainstream media is going down the tubes.

[Pepperbelly]

30. the Bradley is not a tank ... never has been ...

it is lighter and not as heavily armored. It can stop small arms fire but is vulnerable to some shoulder-fired weapons. It is basically an armored personnel carrier.

[saigon68]

38. We are winning all across asia

A supporter of hard-line Islamic alliance Mutahidda Majlis-e-Amal chants slogans during a rally in Lahore September 11, 2004. The rally was part of the countrywide protests against U.S. actions in Afghanistan (news - web sites) and Iraq (news - web sites) following the 9/11 attacks in America. REUTERS/Mohsin Raza

[leftchick]

25. US Genocide... More Dead Kids and Families....

Women gather to mourn the death of Saad Muchawet and his three sons, Haider, Ali and Karar, at Sadr City, Baghdad, Iraq (news - web sites), Sunday Sept. 12, 2004. Locals said the family was shot by U.S. soldiers while travelling in a car early in the morning as fighting from overnight continued into the morning in many parts of Baghdad. (AP Photo/Karim Kadim)




A family grieves for relatives killed when a missile struck the house overnight in a residential area of Baghdad September 12, 2004. More than a dozen explosions shook central Baghdad at dawn on Sunday and heavy gunfire erupted in a street at the heart of the city, leaving a U.S. armored vehicle on fire, witnesses said. In an earlier barrage on Saturday evening, rockets hit houses in southern Baghdad, killing five Iraqis, relatives said. REUTERS/Aladin Abdel Naby



An injured man is carried away after US helicopters fired rockets at a crowd of people cheering near a burning U.S. Bradley Fighting Vehicle at Haifa street in Baghdad, Iraq (news - web sites), Sunday Sept. 12, 2004. Ten people were reported to have died and over 35 injured in the incident. (AP Photo/Hussein Malla)

[jmcgowanjm]

31. Problem for US on Hayfa St/the Bradley is still intact

And the US cannot retrieve it.
This less than 3 miles from the Green Zone
which I'm sure has been targeted by Grad rockets.

In 3 days or so, Resistance will report US KIA.

We control nothing in Iraq.

[jmcgowanjm]

33. Reason Bradley targeted/Reuters/others doing live reports

in front of vehicle.

"We were standing near the destroyed vehicle when
the helicopter started firing, so we rushed to safety in a
nearby building," Alaa Hassan, 24, said from his hospital bed.
"I went back to the scene to help the wounded people when
the helicopter fired again and I was hit in the
chest."

Some Agit Prop guy started looking at more and more
feeds coming in and said we've got to stop this. "This'
being reporting of what's actually happening.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5949556/

Oh, and BTW you can forget the Zarqawi BS in the
above piece. Cause the Battle on Hayfa is the Iraqi
Resistance in action.

"In Ramadi a humvee was ablaze." That would be
at least 3 US KIA right there.

[suegeo]

39. Mission accomplished

After bravely piloting a jet onto the deck of the USS Lincoln, our elected president declared the end of major combat operations in Iraq.

So, these reports must be fiction. Our CiC would never go AWOL and he would never lie to us. Major combat is over.

(Sarcasm)

[ilovenicepeople]

41. another day

another piece of my hope lost to reality.my soul is sick today.:cry: