Chechen Warlord Threatens More Attacks After Beslan

[bemildred]

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Chechen warlord Shamil Basayev
claimed responsibility on Friday for the Russian school siege
in which more than 320 hostages were killed, half of them
children, and threatened further attacks by any means he
saw fit.

Basayev, Russia's most wanted man, expressed regret for the
bloody outcome in Beslan, which he blamed on the Kremlin.
But he made clear there would be no let-up in rebel attacks
in the future in the campaign for an independent Chechnya.

"We are not bound by any circumstances, or to anybody, and
we will continue to fight as is convenient and advantageous
to us, and by our rules," he said in an unrepentant statement
published on a rebel Web site.

Basayev's statement appeared on www.kavkazcenter.com a
day after Russian President Vladimir Putin ruled out
negotiations with Chechen rebels.

Reuters

[dolo amber]

1. I heard on the BBC

Some Russians were protesting outside of the police station there...one man said "Why do they keep saying it was 350 killed when it was closer to 600? Why do they lie still??" (quotes mine, but that's damn close)...

I can't seem to find anything else anywhere about it. Has anyone heard anything similar?

[HuckleB]

4. We'll never know how many died for certain.

There is simply no way to trust Putin and the Russian authorities on this -- or anything else, for that matter.

[HuckleB]

7. Russians lose faith in media after Beslan

http://media.guardian.co.uk/presspublishing/story/0,7495,1299201,00.html

[sui generis]

2. isn't it a funny world

where we still have "warlords". Almost always "warlords" are tribal, or very highly regionalized versions of paleolithic chieftains fighting to keep their power base in a world that is largely leaving them in the stone age.

It seems they, like Bush, ultimately have to resort to enforcing stricter social codes, fundamentalism, and rule by fear to keep their positions (and heads), and whenever things are looking bad, declare war on a neighbor for a made-up offense.

Hmm m m . .. George Bush, the Warlord President

[chelsea0011]

3. Nice guy. And Bush wants Putin to have a sit-down with him?

I'd like to see the press question Bush about Chetnya and how Bush views what is terrorism and what are freedom fighters. The slaughter of children can never be condoned but why is their no outcry in this country when Iraqi children and citizens are slaughtered. I'm sure Bush would be completely lost trying to make any sense of Chetnya.

[Roland99]

10. Well...Bush did say never to negotiate with terrorists

hmmm....wonder what he meant by that since he negotiated with the Taliban to give up bin Laden.


At least until Bush declared bin Laden no longer a priority.

[bemildred]

6. I like it: "President Bush, US warlord, said today ..." nt

[Aidoneus]

5. When I'm wrong, I'm really, really wrong...(collected dense thoughts)

that often happens when I take a stand on a shaky tree-limb made out of quicksand.. It is difficult, and indeed that is inevitable, when there exists equally likely, almost watertight in themselves, and of course contradicting, sets of possibilities.

I read Basayev's full statement earlier this morning (I'm not sure when it is that I sleep..), when KC's server was still breathing. It was only in Russian at the time, as neither BBC Monitoring, Kavkaz itself, or Mariuslab2002 had made a translation by then (or now, to be the best of my knowledge), so some parts didn't make any sense to me. Some of the parts that did technically make grammatical sense to me, still didn't make sense to me. Since then Marius has a few of the important segments translated that most of the wire services are ignoring, that helped confirm some of my own (badly) translated parts. That can be read here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chechnya-sl/message/40385
First, there is too much 'internal evidence' within the whole statement to suggest any fraud, and much in it to consider. The openness is at once greatly unsettling and somewhat refreshing (then perhaps unsettling again), but at least solidly establishes clearly and completely the majority of the facts as they exist on the matter.

My general response: it is remarkable, really, but the branch mentioned facetiously above wasn't the only thing in me that was broken by it. The feel of it, with proper consideration, endears one complex response and its exact opposite, and both at the same time--something he has a knack for that few else ever have--, but this time with a more stronger pull towards that which cannot be spun into the 'bright side' that there would be before. For this, the Lithuanians have apparently decided to pull the plug on KC--a terrible time for them to do so.. The complete and proper Englished version should be of interest, wherever and however it appears.

A handful of the points from the bits I understood and have considered:
The ending, as it was to this "Nord-West", he considers a tragic catastrophe (as I had suspected at the time). The idea was to force a mutually beneficial ending to the whole issue. In order to do so, of course grabbing them by the shorthairs, but not to rip these out--the balls would've been hairless immediately if only that was the idea (while the first part obviously deserves the common reaction--a confused horror--, I think also the second fact deserves more attention than it gets).
That in itself may sound fine until, of course, one considers who the 'shorthairs' really were when the conception goes back to being something real in the actual world. Of course that is awful, but then there are worse matters that it could have brought and end to in an alternate universe where the ending was not as it was.
The offer that was made as the main point is remarkable, for him:--he offered essentially an end to everything, and a positive guarantee on the future. That is something Putin, nor his predecessor or successor, cannot provide by any means, and practically only Shamil can.. but that will of course not be so, now. Interestingly, by way of one of his negotiators apparently going off-script (or not?), Putin was ready to negotiate with them right near the very end, but that was dashed by the ending sequence that took apparently everybody by surprise. A 'likely story', I'd believe it as truth or bullshit just as easily, but I don't know if I dismiss it.

Another interesting item that is missing from this piece is that he confirms the makeup of the party: 12 Chechens, 2 'Black Widows', 9 Ingushes, 3 Russians, 2 Ossetians, 2 Arabs, 1 Kabardian, 1 Tatarstani, and 1 Guran--a Siberian from the Lake Baykal region!

Putin's threats to him may mean nothing.. his own friends will do him in for this, if anybody is to.

Knowing much about this--it all still doesn't make practically any sense to me. But I suppose that's a good thing?

The strangest bit was the compliment he gave to Queen Elizabeth II, with Blair as "this mollusk"... Shamil's strange sense of humour pops up in the strangest of ways.

[Aidoneus]

11. What appears to be a complete translation of it now

thanks to Marius & BBC Monitoring Service:
BBC Monitoring: Excerpts: Basayev claims Beslan
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chechnya-sl/message/40408

--snip--

What happened in Beslan is a terrible tragedy: the bloodsucker from
the Kremlin killed or wounded 1,000 children and adults by ordering
the storming of the school to satisfy his imperial ambitions and to
keep his job. In the most impudent manner Putin is now trying to
blame us for that, accusing us also of international terrorism and
appealing to the world for help.

The battalion of Shakhid, Riyad us-Saliheen, thinks that Putin and
leaders of the world community, who blessed the slaughter, are fully
responsible for what happened. We demand a public investigation into
the Beslan events from the United Nations, the European Union and
everyone who has one-sidedly condemned our actions.

We are prepared to help them in every possible way in the inquiry
into the incident and provide them with virtually any kind of
information. We insist that the storming was carried out by the
Russian special services, which had planned that from the very start.

--snip--

I also sent a personal message to Putin...

Vladimir Putin, you were not the one to start the war, but you could
be the one to end it, that is if you find the courage and resolve to
act like {French statesman Charles} de Gaulle {who pulled France out
of Algeria}.

The Chechen nation is not fighting to humiliate Russia or destroy it.

We are offering you peace on a mutually beneficial basis in line with
the principle "independence for security".

We can guarantee that if you withdraw the troops and recognise
Chechen independence, then:

<goes on to list out offered terms>

--snip--

I have not met bin Laden. I received no money from him, but I would
not have declined the offer...

I have not planned any attempt on the life of Blair, I have nothing
to do with that slug, but I do respect Elizabeth II. We regret what
happened in Beslan. This is simply a war declared by Putin five years
ago, which has killed more than 40,000 Chechen children and crippled
more than 5,000...

We ask the whole world: All right, we are bad guys and one could kill
us, the 7,000 bad guys. But why kill the other 250,000 civilians and
the killing is still going on? They are fighting us without any rules
with the direct connivance of the whole world, we are not bound by
any commitments and we will fight as we know how and in accordance
with our rules...

There is all that shouting and outrage. Various words are being said,
but there is one magic word which needs to be said to stop all wars
and evil on this planet. This word is Justice.

--snip--

etc...

Most of the claim-cliplets(TM) that will appear in butchered form in various hack wire reports will be from these segments.

[Aidoneus]

12. And while I'm thumbing through a few things,

Maskhadov's recent words.. very long.

Aslan Maskhadov: "30 minutes are sufficient to stop the war in Chechnya"

Norbert Strade's translation:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chechnya-sl/message/40425
originally from Chechen Press:
http://chechenpress.com/news/2004/09/16/18.shtml

--snip--

(Two interviews with the President of the ChRI Aslan Maskhadov by Radio
"Liberty")

Bismillah Ar-Rahman Ar-Rakhim

I'll use the opportunity to answer the questions asked by the
correspondents of Radio "Liberty".

I. "Putin is finishing off Russia"

The first question is about the latest terrorist acts on the territory
of Russia, especially the terrorist act of taking children hostages in
the town of Beslan.

To answer this question, I would say the following, especially with
respect to the tragedy in the town of Beslan. Yes, this is a tragedy, it
is blasphemy. Such methods have nothing in common with the struggle of
the Chechen people and the Chechen mujahedeen, because there is no
justification for them.

I and the mujahedeen, who are fighting against the occupation troops
with arms in our hands, are all deeply agitated by this. We express our
sincere condolences to the relatives of the killed children and their
loved ones, and we also declare our apologies to the Ossetian people -
regardless of who took or will take responsibility for this tragedy,
regardless if there were Chechens or not.

We consider that there is one main reason why terrorist acts with
hostage-takings of living people are committed: the continuing war in
Chechnya, which has already lasted for 13 years. Without taking the
responsibility from the people who took children hostages in schol in
Beslan, and without justifying them, I want to tell the truth - the
truth, which everyone is afraid of expressing openly today, too.

Where are the reasons, the roots of such tragedies? I'll try to
enumerate them.

The first, and in my opinion, the main reason, is Russia's extremely
anti-human, barbarous policy in the Caucasus with respect to all
Caucasian peoples, which is still continuing.

The second reason is the change of power in Russia and the appearance in
the Kremlin of a new president of the Russian Federation, who assumed
his power over the blood of his own people and the blood of the Chechen
people.

The third reason is the still continuing war in Chechnya. A war which
doesn't have any analogy with regard to its cruelty - in form of the
planned genocide of the Chechen people. During the last 5 years, the
entire people of Chechnya and all Chechen children have been hostages,
and they are undergoing state terror from the side of Russia.

The fourth reason is President Putin's unhealthy ambitiousness, which
has led to irresponsibility. Those who have once seen Putin's face when
he is asked questions concerning Chechnya, about the Chechens, wouldn't
think that I am leading them astray. His games with the ratings have
gone so far that not only the blood of the Chechens was shed, but also
that of the babies in North Ossetia.

--snip--

Johar Dudayev said before the first war: Give me 30 minutes of time to
talk with Yeltsin, and there won't be any war, we will agree. He would
have known how to convince Yeltsin, but they didn't let him. The war
began, and Chechnya's first president, Johar Dudayev was killed. But
after the first war, these 30 minutes were sufficient for me to convince
the President of the RF Yeltsin to sign a historical document - the
Agreement on Peace and the Principles of Interrelations between Russia
and Chechnya.

--snip--

At the beginning of this war, in Nazran, in the office of the former
president of Ingushetia, Ruslan Aushev, we proposed to meet with then
Russian Prime Minister Putin. And I am confident that 30 minutes would
have been sufficient for me to convince this man not to begin a new war,
to convince him of the fact that this would be useless and end in
disgrace for Russia. And I would have been able to convince Putin that
those who went to Daghestan weren't happy about the fact that nobody
justified their act, including those who had fought against Russia with
arms in their hands. But Putin needed the war, and he got this war.

And now we repeat: 30 minutes of time would be sufficient for a meeting
between the two presidents and to stop this bloodshed, to stop this
terrible war, and to come to an agreement, i.e. to stop the terrorism,
the blood and suffering of the people. But talking about this has been
useless so far. My arguments, my ambitions, if you want, consist of one
thing only: an appropriate security guarantee for the Chechen people -
nothing more. For all the rest I am ready to give way in favour of
Russia. But I will never in life step back from the first mentioned. Let
me repeat: There is no international terrorism, there is no outside
influence whatsoever, there is no intervention whatsoever. These are all
fabrications, lies and fraud.

In the Chechen Resistance movement, there's a radical part of the
people, who believe that in a war with Russia, the usual, i.e. civilized
methods are useless. Because it is the only army, the only state which
doesn't care about the corpses of its soldiers and officers, who are
daily exported by the dozens from the territory of Chechnya. And they,
these radical people in the Resistance movement, believe that by blowing
up the metro, electric railways, airplanes, by the seizure of schools,
they can force Putin to stop this slaughter, this war, the bloodshed and
the genocide of a nation.

The main argument of the people who seize theatres and schools consists
in the fact that, allegedly, Putin, his generals and special services,
wouldn't give orders to shoot at the young children, or to poison their
own citizens with the chemical agents "sarin" and "saman". But they are
wrong about this. These people are wrong, because they don't know the
true face of their enemy and the state with which they are at war. And
here, in Beslan - I repeat: I'm not justifying these people - they
probably didn't believe that there would be an assault, they couldn't
imagine that the order would be given in the Kremlin to shoot at the
children. And I am sure that these "terrorists" didn't shoot the
children in the back.

One child from this school confirmed that there were two explosions from
the outside which crushed the wall, then the roof, and the "terrorists"
didn't fire at them, they changed their clothes and left. I think that
the main fault of these "terrorists" and those who take living people
hostages lies in one single thing: that they want to force the
government of Russia to make specific concessions by risking the lives
of these people. I am sure that they can't do this. Let me repeat: they
don't know the beastly face of their enemy and the Russian leader.

I know the president of North Ossetia, Dzasokhov well, I know him
personally. He is a respected and honest person, a sober-minded
politician. He would never have given order to begin an assault on the
school. Under no circumstances. And I am sure that he didn't give this
order and didn't agree with those who began the assault.

On the third, on the morning of the day of the assault, my envoy in
Great Britain Zakayev spoke with Dzasokhov on the phone. We were assured
that negotiations would start, that we would be able to act as
mediators. Knowing well Russia, the Russian leaders, the methods of the
Russian special services, we, including myself, were ready to risk our
lives and to go there as mediators and to save all the children. And we
were sure that we would be able to do this, even to the disadvantage of
the demands of the "terrorists".

When they poisoned Anna Politkovskaya on the airplane and arrested
Babitsky in Moscow, it could already be understood that there would be
an assault, that there would be a military solution to the crisis in
Beslan. And now the main word to the president of North Ossetia,
Dzasokhov. He must tell the truth and open the eyes of his people, of
the relatives of the killed: Who gave the order to start the assault,
who was guilty of the loss of hundreds of children? In my opinion he has
enough courage and reason.

--snip--

etc..

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/chechnya-sl/message/40425

[Moderator]

13. Aidoneus

Per DU copyright rules
please post only four
paragraphs from the
copyrighted news source.
Both sites are copyrighted.


Thank you.

DU Moderator

[slojim240]

8. Basayev is saying something like: "You're either with us or against us!"

Isn't that what all the great leaders of our time are saying? Doesn't that make them heros of the moment, great warriors?

[bemildred]

9. Basayev is saying "Bring it on!" nt