Iraqi PM: 'Terrorists pouring in'

[SHRED]

LONDON, England (CNN) -- Iraq's interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi has warned that "terrorists" are flooding into his country from across the Muslim world.

His comments on Monday echoed those of UK Prime Minister Tony Blair who said the day before that Iraq was now the "crucible" in which the future of global terrorism would be determined.

Allawi, who is visiting London, told GMTV at the end of one of the bloodiest weeks since the end of major conflict in Iraq: "It's not a second conflict per se, it's really an international conflict.

"Terrorists are coming and pouring in from various countries into Iraq to try and undermine the situation in Iraq. They're coming from Afghanistan, Pakistan, from Europe, from Morocco, from Syria and so on.

"Iraq is on the front line of fighting these terrorists. And, God forbid, if Iraq is broken or the will of Iraq is broken, then London would be a target, Washington will be a target, Paris will be a target, Cairo will be a target, as we have seen in the past."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/09/20/britain.allawi/index.html

[skooooo]

1. Wow, who'd a thunk this would happen?

[rooboy]

2. If Bush can't seal the borders of Iraq...

what makes Republicans think he can protect the borders of the USA? You'd have to think that at least 20,000 Al Qaeda have crossed into America in the last 3 years.

[whistle]

3. Phony Tony Blair's WMD yellow cake memo had no credibility, now...

...he is claiming multinational muslim terrorists are flooding over the Iraqi borders, does this sound like chicken little? How are they arriving, Iraqi Airlines? Sorry, both Blair and Bush have lost credibility, Allawi is a puppet two bit opportunist, it really is time to pull up stakes there and for our troops ti return home, or else we will be stuck in Iraq for the next 100 years

[izzie]

4. I have been reading the blogs and it does not sound like all these-----

people came from someplace else. Also the reporters from over seas papers seem to think they are local people or many of them. We are being feed that they are from out side and I do not think this is all true.

[shockingelk]

5. WAIT

"And, God forbid, if Iraq is broken or the will of Iraq is broken, then London would be a target, Washington will be a target, Paris will be a target, Cairo will be a target, as we have seen in the past."

Am I to understand DC and London are not targets? Why are we wasting all this money on Homeland Security?

Tha world is full of loons.

[Veggie Meathead]

6. This one reminds me of a statement that Bremer made after

he descended on Baghdad:"All foreigners should leave Baghdad now".
Who says irony is dead?

[sam sarrha]

7. "Bring em on"..we got you where we want you.. DRAFT THE TWINS !!

[GliderGuider]

8. Not according to Scott Taylor

Based on what he saw when he was in captivity, he feels that the involvement of foreign fighters is being overstated for political purposes:

"And the worst thing for the U.S. is that their heavy-handed tactics have radicalized the population, so that local Turkmen guys who previously had no strong religious fervor are now willing to die as martyrs. Unlike what the Pentagon is saying, I saw no foreign fighters there. When we were imprisoned, we were housed by local people, in their own homes. Their mothers and wives were doing the cooking and exhorting their sons to go out and die as martyrs. It's hopeless for the U.S."

I suspect that if the US could find some way to disengage from Iraq the insurgency there would probably not pose an enormous international risk. Their main motivation seems to be just getting the US out of their country. Imagine that.

Interview with Scott Taylor

[Eloriel]

23. And I also recommend Scott's own blog entry which is

linked to in that interview. Between the two, you get the kind of "view" of what's going on over there you don't get many other places.

[Doug Decker]

42. Scott's account from his blog is gripping reading...

what a story. I am just amazed he made it out alive.

[SOS]

31. The named nations are also political

They always mention Iran and Syria. Iran and Syria are mentioned only because they are the next neocon targets.
In the real world, thousands have indeed crossed the border into Iraq to fight the US.
Most are coming from Saudi Arabia.
But since Bush has no plans to attack his business partners, we'll never hear about it.

From the Economist:

"What is clear is that many more jihadis did pour in after the conventional phase of the war. One early decree of the (now departed) American proconsul, Paul Bremer, abolished Iraq's border guard. Even today, only three of 36 former checkpoints on the long and porous border with Saudi Arabia are manned."

From the BBC:

"Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari told the same programme earlier that foreign fighters were entering from Iran, Syria, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Jordan, every country with a border with Iraq."

Every country, but only future targets are mentioned by Bush!

[BeyondGeography]

9. The scale of this blunder grows every day

Sadaam Hussein was a boxed-in, secular dictator who was almost as despised as the United States by al Qaeda. Instead of a one-front war in Afghanistan, we've opened up a second, much more dangerous front in Iraq, which not only serves as a magnet for terrorists, but also figures to destabilize the entire Middle East!

I only hope to live long enough to read the history books on this one.

[Blue_Roses]

12. very well said!

and I agree!

[Roland99]

10. Why...I'm utterly shocked! I'm in total disbelief

However could this have happened?

I mean, we sent 125,000 troops to take over an entire country. Certainly the borders were properly protected to prevent just such an occurrence.








yeah....right.

[Inland]

11. Nobody could ever have predicted this could happen, inconceivable,

unthinkable, who'd would have guessed.

[Barrett808]

13. Sounds like Allawi is less than enthusiastic about the "flypaper strategy"

He should just buck up and add his body to the nation of human shields...

[Nile]

14. Iraq, the terrorist magnet.

If we attract and kill them there we do not have to look for them elsewhere.

[MacDo]

15. Careful

I suggested this same thing the other day and was really ripped for it. I for one believe, if you support the war or not, fight them there and not here.

[roseBudd]

16. Flyer about Iraq debacle for printing

This one quotes the Army War College report on Iraq.

Go to http://somnamblst.tripod.com to download high resolution TIF or PDF file to print and distribute.

[KeepItReal]

18. Fight them there? Where *is* there exactly?

There were no Al Qaeda training camps in Iraq *BEFORE* we invaded (as if there are any right now). Bin Laden *HATED* Saddam and said Saddam was a secular ruler and not a true Muslim. Bin Laden's guys and camps were in Afghanistan and Pakistan and other places (not Iraq).

We sent in a small force into Afghanistan and accomplished nothing more than overthrowing the Taliban and scattering the Al Qaeda-types. When we pulled out the Army Rangers from Afghanistan, I knew Bush & Co. were not serious about capturing Bin Laden back then. The Rangers were just the type of highly-mobile, substantal force that could be used (along with Special Forces) there to capture or kill Bin Laden in a raid.

It doesn't take a "Terrorist" or "Foreign Fighter" to pick up one of the thousands of weapons from Iraqi arms depots the U.S. could not secure (not enough troops for security) and point it at a U.S. trooper. The Iraqis can point and shoot for themselves.

Check this out:

"BAGHDAD, Iraq, Nov. 18 — The commanding general of the United States Army division that patrols much of Iraq's western borders with Syria, Jordan and Saudi Arabia said Tuesday that his men had encountered only a handful of foreign fighters trying to sneak into the country to attack American and allied forces.

"I want to underscore that most of the attacks on our forces are by former regime loyalists and other Iraqis, not foreign forces," said the officer, Maj. Gen. Charles H. Swannack Jr., commander of the 82nd Airborne Division.

...

During a briefing on Monday for a member of the Iraqi Governing Council, he said that since May, his men had captured perhaps 20 foreign fighters trying to slip into the country from those three countries.

During a period in which border patrols have been intensified and new technology is being used, that number suggests only modest foreign incursions into Iraq, in contrast to estimates by the Bush administration.

In Washington late last month, officials estimated the number of foreign fighters in Iraq at 1,000 to 3,000, and the White House has been suggesting that foreign fighters are continuing to enter the country and are behind many of the attacks, linking the war in Iraq to the global campaign against terror. "

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1119-12.htm

If more folks are infiltrating into Iraq to fight our forces now, then it is another problem that Bush & Co. has created thanks to it's lack of planning.

[never cry wolf]

19. To believe that you must assume a finite number of terrorists

There are 1.7 billion muslims and before Iraq the vast majority did not hate us. Our brilliant strategy has changed that, Iraq is but one front they will hit us at and the longer there is strife and death there the more that will be against us on all fronts. For every insurgent, outside terrorist and innocent bystander killed or maimed in Iraq, 5 more line up to take their place and look for ways to hit us harder on ALL fronts.

[drdtroit]

20. Have another glass

of Kool-aid.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

37. Terrorists want to kill Americans. Civilian Americans

Not a lot of them there in Iraq so this is not a reasonable claim or expectation by any stretch.

[NickB79]

40. We're creating NEW terrorists by fighting there!

The entire Iraqi population of 25 million, who before this war didn't engage on terrorist attacks on US assets outside their country, are now entering the ranks of the Taliban and other INTERNATIONAL terrorist organizations. Even if I give you the benefit of the doubt and believe that 50,000 foreign fighters have now entered Iraq to attack US troops, that is nothing compared to the MILLIONS of Iraqis who are now willing to attack and kill US troops. If you want to play the numbers game, your strategy is a poor one, because we're making more terrorists than we can kill.

[drscm]

51. "Fight them there and not here." What arrogance!

We invade a sovereign nation and put their people in danger. I bet they thank everyone who believes in this strategy every night.

[Eloriel]

24. Flawed premise

For this to be the least bit viable as a "strategy" (and I do use that term loosely here), all the Al Qaeda terrorists in the world would have to go to Iraq. Ain't gonna happen -- there are Al Qaeda in Great Britain, Germany, France, Phillipines, U.S. (probably), and who knows where else -- and more coming all the time, thanks to this misadventure. They're NOT all going to travel to Iraq to get their heads bashed in. Sorry. It's a lousy idea, but a great rightwing talking point for those who can't think past the simplistic rhetoric.

[Nile]

30. It is still better to fight them there.

It is still better to fight them there than here in the U.S.

[llmart]

39. Maybe if you keep repeating that line...

you can convince yourself that you're right. I guess that's easier than actually doing any thinking for yourself. Here at DU we have a lot of independent, educated, knowledgeable thinkers who don't drink the administration's Kool-Aid.

[Nile]

43. As it stands now, as crappy as it is.

Would you rather the fighting and bombing be done in the cities of the U.S. or in the cities of Iraq? You seem to be saying that you would rather have it all happening in the cities of the U.S.

[llmart]

47. For your information....

the Iraqis didn't have the capability to "fight a war with us in the US." You seem to have bought the lie that Bush dished out they they were an "imminent threat." Yeah, right. But, I'm not going to debate anything with an obvious freeper who just drinks of the mass media Kool-Aid and doesn't read anything deeper than the headlines or the CNN crawl. Why don't you go over to the freeper site? They like your type over there.

[NickB79]

41. See my reply #40 for your answer

In short, your strategy is severely flawed because you don't consider the millions of new potential terrorists we've created to fight a few thousand Al Queda terrorists that existed before we invaded Iraq.

[Nile]

44. I do not have a strategy.

I am just commenting on what is happening now.

[louis-t]

46. Was that what * said?

when attacking Iraq, did he say "People of Iraq, we want to use your country to stage a War on Terra"? You're assuming that terrorists are faced with a choice: "Hmmm, should I go to Iraq to kill Americans, or should I go to the US to kill Americans? I think I'll go to Iraq because it's closer." This is shallow, shallow thinking. It is especially disturbing to hear anyone make the claim that 'we're better off fighting them over there.' That is NOT an excuse for attacking a country that was no threat to us, creating more terrorism, and turning it into GWB's private battleground. And, since we don't seem to be getting any closer to ending terrorism, your statement is also futile rationalization.

[not systems]

28. Right. Not! Your theory worked so well in Afghanistan and Cambodia.

Fighting wars that creates harden cores of resistance leads
to regimes like the Taliban and the Kumar Rouge.

Just remember when the chickens come home to roost that the
blood is on your hands.

[Nile]

I did not say that I was for the war in Iraq.

But seeing that the terrorists are now flocking into Iraq instead of flocking into the U.S. is still better.

[not systems]

34. Da Nile ain't just a river in Egypt.

[tlcandie]

17. It's what they've wanted all along to for them to all be drawn to

Iraq and then just throw a little "shock and awe" on em! And no they don't care about innocents dying in the process. They are brown-skinned and a disposable commodity.

Two for the price of one errr maybe that's three for the price of one:
1) Shock and awe the terrorists once all stuck to fly paper while killing off large part of Iraqi population

2) Get to keep all that oil for themselves once noone left to argue over it

3) Bases, bases, bases.. ME strategy!!!

[0007]

21. U.S. troops poured into Iraq on lies and misinformation of WMD

and I'm not counting the allies that came pouring in from various parts of the world to aid the big bully.

[shadu]

22. This sounds like bs to me

These 'terrorists' pouring in are almost certainly not
the 'terrorists' the US was looking for.
I would guess that those folks are watching and waiting.
There are plenty of Iraqi regular Joes with a legitimate motive
to light up US soldiers without looking to outsiders
for the upsurge in anti-US activity or blaming 'al-Qaida.'

[skip fox]

25. Think of the historical timing.

We invade a year-and-a-half ago. How long does it take to recruit and train a terrorist? Probably about 9-12 months on average. The recruiting goes on to this day throughout the Muslim world.

So we're probably seeing the second wave, which is exponentially larger than the first. Think of the third another 6-8 months down the path?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

26. Funny, but all of those "international terrorists" appear to be Iraqis...

...has anyone been trotted out and undeniably indentified as coming from another country to fight American troops?

Not that I've seen so far. Try again, Allawi.

[skip fox]

27. Good question.

I wonder what nationalities the kidnappers were who were just captured?

I'm not arguing against you, just wondering. I think the PM might be right, however, for the reason given above. That our presence in Iraq has been a Allah-send for recruitment and the first trainees should have been reaching the borders over the last few months.

[JoFerret]

29. How hard is it to explain

to the electorate that most of these are newly minted "terrorists"/terrorists created BY BushCo. And furthermore this delusion that it is better to fight them in Iraq than in the streets of the USA is just that - a delusion.

[Parche]

32. allawi

He was on ABC this week with George Stephanopuolous
and he sounded just like GW Bush , said the same things
he always says
Its better to get them over there instead of here etc...
all of that war on terror crap

[skip fox]

33. What are the assessments of such analysts as Peter Bergman of CNN???

Just because it's the administration and Allawi's party line (thereby saying Iraq's difficulties have a significant course in the Islamic jihadish movement throughout the Muslim world, therefore it's more difficult than originally imagined, etc. . . . basically blaming their failure not on Iraqi resistence but on exterior forces), doesn't mean it's wrong.

It also doesn't mean that if a significant portion of our difficulties in Iraq has to do with foreign-born jihadists, that's not the result of our invasion and occupation, and therefore this administration is not at fault.

This administration is directly at fault no matter which side one takes.

But it's important to know the facts. Especially from good minds like Bergman's.

[Emillereid]

35. Just what Ledeen and the other neo-cons dreamed for before the war!!!

[Kolesar]

36. Give Tony Blair a carbine and a flak jacket and let him go to Iraq & fight

What torques me is that they call anybody involved in fighting the Bush conquest a "terrorist". Are they hijacking airliners?

[AlCzervik]

38. What i think is that there are probably some foreign element in Iraq

but i think Allawi is trying to use the some as cover for the full scale insurrection that is taking place.

[amandabeech]

45. So why is Blair cutting back the number of British troops in Iraq?

Just when all the terrorists are there for the shooting?

This whole thing is disgusting beyond belief.

[RainDog]

48. Any eligible man or woman who supported this invasion

Any eligible man or woman who supported this invasion...

...if they have any decency at all, will sign up and put his or her ass on the line RIGHT NOW.

If ANYONE who is fit to serve who supported this war does not immediately sign up, they are lower than dog shit.

If you supported this war, put your life where your big fat words were, and don't expect the poor in this country to fight your battles for you.

Those of us who did not support this war, for the very reasons Richard Clarke and others, who could not get heard in the U.S. media over all the screaming from assholes like Bill O'Reilly, find it hard to believe that those of you who did support don't have the courage of your convictions now that all isn't a walk in the park.

But maybe some of you will think twice before you think it's so simple to invade another country now that Iraq is looking more and more like THE WORST decision Bush (Mr. I Got My Daddy to Get Me in the Guard) could have made, but how true to form that he's all for a war he doesn't have to fight.

[drscm]

49. Gee, I bet our boy king and his serfs are happy.

"Better to fight them there than in our own neighborhood."

I bet the Iraqi people can't thank him enough for inviting them into their neighborhood. And, with his failed and antagonistic policies, we can only bet that there a lot more of them.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

50. George Bush IS the education President after all

in creating in Iraq the largest classroom for the training of Islamic extremists. No more monkey bars or crawling under barbed wire in obstacle courses in Afghanistan. Now they have real targets to practice on with their AK-47s, real armored personnel carriers to test out their homemade roadside bombs, and an ideal landscape in which to attract new recruits.

[LSK]

52. how does he know? does he check their passports?

[Disturbed]

53. al Q.

Their operations are spread out into years. I do not believe that they couldn't have attacked in the US if they wanted to in the past three years. Their attack has brought about the desired result, so far. Get the US Forces out of Saudi Arabia and cause a lot of problems for the US. GW Bush is their best recruiter so they don't need to strike in America at this time.

Their aims are not to destroy America, Israel or Saudi Arabia. Al Q. are not insane terrorists that "hate us for our freedoms" or fear freedom. The invasion of Iraq has done more good for al Q. than any other action by the US.

Do some research and find out what al Q. goals are.

btw I do not endorse al Q. nor any group that espouses fundamentalist Islam.