New York Post - Roger Stone source of forged memos?

[EarlG]

IF YOU CLICK THE LINK, SCROLL DOWN TO THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=106&ncid=742&e=1&u=/nypost/20040920/cm_nypost/thetruthaboutriflestatistics

The hot rumor in New York political circles has Roger Stone, the longtime GOP activist, as the source for Dan Rather's dubious Texas Air National Guard "memos."

The irony would be delicious, since Rather became famous confronting President Nixon, in whose service a very young Stone became associated with political "dirty tricks."

Reached at his Florida home, Stone had no comment.

[Catch22Dem]

1. Get the "F" outta here!!!

Oh, it would be "delicious" indeed, would it not?!?!

[NewYorkerfromMass]

2. Could this be bait and switch?

another plant to throw people off the right trail?

[ender]

3. nah... we got the goods...

and, we're going to roast these fsckers for dinner...

i think that kerry knows exactly how deep the rabbit hold goes, and how to prove it....

[NewYorkerfromMass]

5. But this first appeared in the RW rag NYPost

so color me skeptical. and the DNC issued the statement NOT Kerry.

[JoFerret]

6. True its a total Murdoch rag but it did front page Poppy

and his affair with Jennifer Fitzgerald when few others mentioned it.

[txindy]

10. Gotta agree

The Post would like to stick it to just about anyone given half a chance. Maybe they've seen the writing on the wall about election day and want to give Rove a farewell gift. :nopity:

[GeorgeBushytail]

45. Think Dan Rather might look into this?

[HereSince1628]

4. Before taking the bait lets check this out carefully...

Everyone is desperately wanting Rove and the Minions of Malificence to be caught red handed, lets probe this one a bit before we swallow, riping out that last hook really hurt.

[DoYouEverWonder]

7. Roger Stone and his wife are major players in this whole thing

There are a bunch of threads and links all over the place about this guy. He has been involved in anything and everything since back in college when he met Rove.

If this guy is connected to the memos, it's a major deal. And it is very, very likely that he is.

[warrens]

12. Rove dirty tricks

But lately, they haven't been working so great. If Stone is involved, this will blow up in their faces. I have no idea what they were thinking; no one seriously thinks the documents aren't ACCURATE, just not the real thing. They are replacing stuff that was tossed in the shredder back in the 80s.

[Sequoia]

32. Welcome warrens

nice to have you here with us.

I sure hope the turth comes out. Dan Rather is a wonderful journalist and would never lie to us on purpose. Stay the course Dan!

[calimary]

49. Welcome to DU!

[rocktivity]

68. Welcome to DU, Warrens!

:headbang:
rocknation

[SineOfNothing]

36. Can you share some evidence that points at this Stone guy?

Any little bit would help to heat this up.

[yardwork]

46. I object to that metaphor!

DU was not fooled by those CBS memos. All many of us said was that they could have been typed. We didn't insist that they were genuine - just that the "reasons" that Buckhead gave for being suspicious were not credible.

It's too bad that CBS didn't haul out an old typewriter and prove that the memos could have been typed. They were wussy about that angle.

[MikeG]

8. Is Frederic U. Dicker any relation to Hugh G. Rection?

[TahitiNut]

9. Sheesh! He's "F. U. Dicker" ... what parents would do that?

They must've been drunk.

[Spiffarino]

74. Or maybe Dick Hertz?

Mike Hunt?

Homer Sexual?

Haywood Jablomey?

Craven Bush?

Rolando Wetspot?

[Emillereid]

11. The link took me to a story about rifles. Can you check the link.

[EarlG]

13. Scroll down

It's at the bottom of the page.

[Emillereid]

14. Thanks. Now she tells me the problem is with my attached articles.

[woo me with science]

19. it doesn't really say anything....what's the evidence? nt

[young_at_heart]

15. Was he involved in Fox's false statement about Dubya in 2000?

I remember someone at Fox, out of the blue and without real numbers, announced that Bush was the winner. Without taking the time to check (they didn't want to be left out), the others announced it also. Too bad no one bothered to double-check such an important blunder.

[Cocoa]

17. that was John Ellis, I think

Bush's first cousin, an executive at Fox.

[UpInArms]

18. no, that was Bush's cousin - John Ellis

http://mediastudy.com/articles/jellis.html

Bush Cousin Calls Presidential Election

excerpt:

The genesis of this call, and in particular the chronology of the ensuing echos are telling. The story began on election night at 2:16 AM. Fox News projected George W. Bush as winner of the Florida primary and the Presidential election. In a classic case of pack journalism that college professors will no doubt cite for years to come, ABC, CBS, NBC and CNN all followed Fox’s lead during the next four minutes, calling the election for Bush.

The telling part of this story is that the call was made by John Ellis, a freelance political advisor contracted by Fox News to head their election night "decision desk." Ellis is also first cousin to George W. Bush and Florida governor John Ellis "Jeb" Bush.

...more...

[Zen Democrat]

66. That was DimSon's First Cousin -- John Ellis ....

Which is also Jeb's real name: John Ellis Bush.

[UpInArms]

16. background on Roger Stone

http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Roger_J._Stone,_Jr.

Roger J. Stone, Jr. is a long-time Republican dirty-tricks operative who led the mob that shut down the Miami-Dade County recount and helped make George W. Bush president in 2000. He was also a campaign strategist during the presidential campaigns of Presidents Nixon, Reagan and George Herbert Walker Bush. He is the chairman of the Fort Hill Group, a Washington, D.C.-based public affairs firm.

Stone was also a strategist for the 1981 and 1985 campaigns for governor of New Jersey by Thomas H. Kean, who was later appointed by President Bush to chair the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States (also known as the 9-11 Commission). <1>

During the 2004 presidential primary, Stone served as a behind-the-scenes consultant to black firebrand Al Sharpton's campaign to win the Democratic Party nomination, prompting speculation that Sharpton's campaign was actually a stealth operation to weaken the party's chances of winning in the general election. Writing in the Village Voice, Wayne Barrett noted that Stone was "financing, staffing, and orchestrating the presidential campaign of Reverend Al Sharpton. ... Sharpton has a little- noticed history of Republican machinations inconsistent with his fiery rhetoric. ... ny Sharpton- connected outrage against the party could either lower black turnout in several key close states, or move votes to Bush." <2>

...more...

http://www.berkeleydailyplanet.com/article.cfm?archiveDate=08-20-04&storyID=19452

excerpt:

Stone’s history as a Republican operative goes back to the Nixon era, when as a teenager he infiltrated the campaign of Democratic presidential candidate George McGovern on behalf of the Committee to Re-Elect the President, according to the Jan. 25 edition of the New York Times.

...more...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A40156-2003Jul10¬Found=true

excerpt:

But the committee's real organizer, the election commission said, was veteran GOP political consultant Roger Stone, who has been involved in major campaigns dating to Richard M. Nixon's administration. The election commission wanted to question Stone, who owns a home in Florida, but it couldn't locate him to serve a subpoena.

In a recent report on the matter, the commission says Stone persuaded McCarty to head the committee and that he supplied $150,000 from undisclosed sources. The group mailed letters to 350,000 Republican voters asking for money to send "a clear message to the Florida Supreme Court that we will not tolerate their efforts to highjack the presidential election for Al Gore."

The Florida Elections Commission concluded that McCarty violated several state election laws, including accepting contributions exceeding the $500 state limit and filing an inaccurate disclosure report. McCarty has sued in federal court, seeking to block the commission proceedings. She told the Associated Press: "I didn't do any of this except sign my name. . . . This was basically some sort of a scam that was set up that I was used in. I was duped."

...more...

[leftchick]

24. he was a "teenager" ?

WTF was his draft number?...:grr:

[RobinA]

62. If He Really Is 47

he was too young to be drafted to Vietnam. I'm 46, and no one my age or a few years older made the draft.

[Surf Cowboy]

80. Wait--if you are 46, then you were born @ 1958

which would have made you too young to be drafted, would it not? I mean, you would have only been 15 in 1973, when we pulled out.

Did you misspeak?

[UpInArms]

81. the draft registration was still going on in 1975

and any males that turned 18 that year were required to register with the local draft board.

Although they were not actively "drafting" in 1975, those were still the rules.

[Surf Cowboy]

82. Gotcha. Wasn't born till 1973 myself, so I didn't understand...

[leQ]

25. that disinfofedia link doesn't work as you say (n/t)

n/t

[UpInArms]

28. I don't know what happened

but here's a "shorterlink"

http://makeashorterlink.com/?X3C752759

[seemslikeadream]

20. Karl and Roger

Career: In the years of the Watergage scandal, Rove's career as a big-time political handler began with a motley crew of friends and associates. He was chairman of the College Republicans when George Herbert Walker Bush was chairman of the state Republican Party in 1973. He won the presidency of the College Republicans in a race against Terry Dolan. The late Lee Atwater, who later became famous as the political attack dog for the Reagan-Bush team, managed Rove's campaign. Dolan went on to become a Soft Money pioneer by helping form the National Conservative Political Action Committee, then died of AIDS in 1986 at age 36. Dolan's advisers in his loss to Rove were Charlie Black, Paul Manafort and Roger Stone. Those three were later instrumental in the success of Ronald Reagan's 1984 campaign.
http://www.famoustexans.com/karlrove.htm

GOP Front Group Exposed

During the 2000 presidential recount battle in Florida, a group called Committee to Take Back Our Judiciary spent $150,000 attacking three pro-Democratic state Supreme Court justices who they felt threatened George W. Bush's hopes for victory. The group was a front for Bush donors trying to ensure his victory in Florida, in yet another example of Republican chicanery in the 2000 election. The Florida Elections Commission announced July 2003 that it will consider a $450,000 fine against the committee's chairwoman, Republican Mary McCarty, a Palm Beach County commissioner. The Florida Elections Commission concluded that McCarty violated several state election laws, including accepting contributions exceeding the $500 state limit and filing an inaccurate disclosure report. GOP political consultant Roger Stone persuaded McCarty to head the committee and that he supplied $150,000 from undisclosed sources.
http://www.literalpolitics.com/Florida/corruptionrev.htm

Then, with the recount underway, the Bush junta sprang into action. Using $13.8 million in campaign funds, they recuited an A-list of Republican fixers, tough guys and lawyers. Roger Stone, the former Republican fixer and body builder of Reagan time who fled to Florida following a DC sex scandal, was summoned to orchestrate gangs of rightwing Cubans to harass election officials in Dade and Palm Beach counties. Marc Racicot, later to be elevated by Bush to chair of the RNC, staged similar white-collar riots, all designed to impede the counting of ballots. Jeb and the haughty Harris did their parts as institutional monkeywrenchers.
http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:rE2BhirarGMJ:www.fuckfrance.com/read.html%3Fpostid%3D780782%26replies%3D12%26page%3D1+Roger+Stone+rove&hl=en

AT AGE 47, Roger Stone is already one of the great characters of Washington-a man who embodied the liberals' "decade of greed" talk in the 1980s, when his extensive Reagan-administration contacts helped him become one of the flashiest lobbyists in town. He was like a character in a Tom Wolfe novel, a D.C. master of the universe, who bragged about how much his suits cost and bopped around in a Jaguar (when he wasn't in his chauffeur-driven Mercedes). In 1985, The New Republic tagged him a "state-of-the-art sleazeball."
http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:DtwQnPNxe9gJ:www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_25_51/ai_58326762+%22Roger+Stone%22+reagan&hl=en

Governor’s San Pablo Casino Deal Fulfills Hopes of GOP Operatives By RICHARD BRENNEMAN
By RICHARD BRENNEMAN (08-20-04)

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger’s award of exclusive Bay Area casino gaming rights to Casino San Pablo gives a multi-million-dollar plum to a project launched by a three-time GOP contender for the Philadelphia mayoralty and backed by the GOP operative who stage-managed the “Brooks Brothers Riot” during the 2000 Florida presidential recount.
The Republican governor’s move lobbed a political grenade at the hopes of the would-be developers of two East Bay tribal casinos, while handing the plum to Casino San Pablo.

The deal gives the Bay Area casino monopoly to the Lytton Pomo Indian band, whose plans were backed by Republican financier Samuel P. Katz, a three-time failed candidate for mayor of Philadelphia, and Roger Stone, a tribal casino lobbyist identified by the Florida Election Commission as the GOP “dirty tricks” operative who stage-managed the irate Republican mobs during the 2000 ballot recount in Florida.
http://www.berkeleydaily.org/text/article.cfm?issue=08-20-04&storyID=19452

Furthermore, under guidance of veteran Republican political operative Roger Stone, Golisano for the first time plans to campaign as a conservative. That was not envisioned as Pataki's shrewdly conceived strategy moved him steadily leftward the last two years. Having made himself indistinguishable from Democrats while neutralizing any threat from the Conservative Party, Pataki now faces a well-financed threat from the right.
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/robertnovak/rn20020620.shtml

Despite the fact that Al Gore invented the Internet, and that would-be politicians are accustomed to spending gobs of money on TV and radio advertising every couple of years, political campaigns are only beginning to put two and two together and recognize the power of advertising online.

Undoubtedly, though, they are "getting it," as events in this year's presidential race indicate. And those in the know suggest this is only the beginning of a lucrative, albeit seasonal, revenue stream for ad industry types.

"This will be seen as the year the revolution hit electoral politics," says Roger Stone, director of the Juno Advocacy Network.
http://www.clickz.com/news/article.php/299331

[Lady_Liberty]

22. Karl indeed

This whole thing stunk of GOP tricks from the beginning.

[Judi Lynn]

73. The Cuban right-wing group involved in the vote recount riot

is Vigilia Mambisa, which assisted the Republican thugs. Their president is Miguel Saavedra, and they are simply nasty folks. A search will tell you they tear around all over South Florida raising hell against people they don't like politically.

Have Bullhorn, Will Travel
Most anti-Castro groups shun partisan presidential politics, but not Miguel Saavedra and his merry band of protesters
BY JACOB BERNSTEIN
[e-mail]


Steve Satterwhite


Laura Vianello and Miguel Saavedra: Vigilia Mambisa ringleaders



From the issue of December 7, 2000



The call came over the airwaves as it had so many times before. On Wednesday, November 22, Radio Mambí (WAQI-AM 710) and La Poderosa (WWFE-AM 670) reverberated with the cries of political advocates, among them U.S. Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen and state Sen. Mario Diaz-Balart, urging people to descend on the Stephen P. Clark Government Center in downtown Miami.
Enraged Republican operatives imported from dozens of states needed help. The Republicans, mainly congressional staffers, already had filled the county-election department reception area, banging on doors and shouting in protest of a decision to count ballots away from public view. A number of them even had accosted a local Democratic Party stalwart, chasing after him in the false belief he had stolen a ballot.

It was no secret which political party the majority of local Cuban Americans supported. Stung by Elian Gonzalez's violent removal in April, a popular slogan in Little Havana this past summer was "Mr. Clinton, we will remember in November."

But this time few heeded the call. In fact only one anti-Castro exile organization of the scores that operate in South Florida reinforced the Republicans. Vigilia Mambisa mustered about 25 people for a demonstration outside the county hall, where they gamely shouted, "We want Bush! No more Gore!" Leading them in the chants through his bullhorn was Mambisa president Miguel Saavedra. He and some of the others, encouraged by GOP officials, would continue to follow the Republicans throughout the week as the demonstrations moved from Miami-Dade to Broward and then on to Palm Beach.

The Republicans' new friends, however, are viewed with wariness by many of their fellow Cuban exiles. Some disapprove of Mambisa's street-theater tactics, labeling them emotional rather than practical. (Saavedra claims to have he led more than 400 rallies in 21 years.) Other critics allege he and his band are paid provocateurs, a charge Saavedra denies. " is nothing but a group of professional protesters," jeers a prominent exile leader who asked that his name not be used because "I don't want them in front of my house."
(snip/...)

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/issues/2000-12-07/metro.html

[ikojo]

21. Isn't this the same Stone who allowed Al Sharpton

to use his credit card to fund Al's primary presidential campaign this winter? I do think it is the same man....

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0405/barrett.php

Roger Stone, the longtime Republican dirty-tricks operative who led the mob that shut down the Miami-Dade County recount and helped make George W. Bush president in 2000, is financing, staffing, and orchestrating the presidential campaign of Reverend Al Sharpton

[DoYouEverWonder]

26. Funny how everyone seems like they end up with his credit card?

Same thing happened with the sex scandal.

[Pallas180]

29. the thugs pounding on the doors in Fl were from DeLay's office -what

connection does Stone have to DeLay?

[Pallas180]

30. & look for a connection to Mellon-Scaiffe who has recently moved his oper-

operation to Boca Raton, Florida.

When I read about it, I thought, what dirty trick is he getting ready
for the vote in Flordia?

[DoYouEverWonder]

31. Supposedly Jim Baker asked Stone personally

to organize the CANF and other operatives to storm the Board of Election offices.

DeLay must have worked with Stone to coordinate the troops.

One more tidbit, Roger Stone ended up on BUSH'S TRANSITION TEAM and make a fortune for his 'gaming' interests, with his work and connections to the Interior Dept during the transition.


http://www.politicsnj.com/stone042204.htm

Thursday, April 22, 2004 [phone]

STONE RELEASES DOCUMENTS ON INDIAN GAMING
GOP consultant blasts accuracy of Village Voice report

(MIAMI, FLORIDA) Veteran Republican consultant Roger Stone, who has worked with Indian Tribes in California and other states, released documents today outlining his efforts to assist tribes with economic development and land issues. Stone said the documents demonstrated the ?reckless inaccuracy? of an April 20th Village Voice article about Indian gaming.

Stone posted the documents on a Web site (www.thetruthaboutstone.com) to refute what he said were ?gross and willful errors? in the article by conspiracy theorist and ?investigative journalist? Wayne Barrett. Barrett works for the Village Voice, a counter-culture newspaper circulated free-of-charge in New York City.

Barrett criticized Stone?s successful efforts to help the Lytton Band of Pomo Indians get and keep trust land through Congressional action. Barrett also disparaged Stone?s successful strategy to pass legislation to give tribes increased authority over their own Constitutions, which will end a Bureau of Indian Affairs power-grab to unseat the legitimate chairperson of the Buena Vista Rancheria.

?Wayne Barrett, in the tradition of Jayson Blair and USA Today?s Jack Kelley, violated the ?off-the-record? rule, used partial quotations to create false impressions, misled interviewees as to the substance of my interview,? Stone said. ?He also ignored documents which disproved his wacky conspiracy theories.?

[Zen Democrat]

67. Not only DeLay's Office -- staffers from at least 4 or 5 Repuke Reps

were in the same mob at the Miami office. (See "Outfoxed").

[cal04]

23. Even if Rather's report isn't accurate, Greg Palast says look

at the Barnes sworn affidavit that Bush did NOT challenge and a statement from a man who made the call to get Bush into the guard.

Is Rather's report accurate? Is George W. Bush a war hero or a privileged little Shirker-in-Chief? Today I saw a goofy two page spread in the Washington Post about a typewriter used to write a memo with no significance to the draft-dodge story. What I haven't read about in my own country's media is about two crucial documents supporting the BBC/CBS story. The first is Barnes' signed and sworn affidavit to a Texas Court, from 1999, in which he testifies to the Texas Air National Guard fix—which Texas Governor George W. Bush, given the opportunity, declined to challenge.

And there is a second document, from the files of US Justice Department, again confirming the story of the fix to keep George's white bottom out of Vietnam. That document, shown last year in the BBC television documentary, "Bush Family Fortunes," correctly identifies Barnes as the bag man even before his 1999 confession.

At BBC, we also obtained a statement from the man who made the call to the Texas Air National Guard general on behalf of Bush at Barnes' request. Want to see the document? I've posted it at: gregpalast.com/ulf/documents/draftdodgeblanked.jpg

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Media/092104Palast/092104palast.html

[timefordrinking.com]

27. I really hope...

...some mainstream media follows up on this. I can't seem to find any stories about this, outside of the "rumor" in the NY Post.

[GeorgeBushytail]

33. Somehow Drudge has overlooked this breaking story

[Flubadubya]

79. Somebody needs to send it to Drudge...

Bwahahaha....

[Pallas180]

34. send it to Matthews and Olbermann at Msnbc - they are both

possibilities -

oops - a guy on Hardball just mentioned Ramirez.

[0007]

58. What about Bill Moyers at PBS?

[SineOfNothing]

35. Whose words are these? The reporter FREDRIC U. DICKER?

And is there anymore evidence to back it up?

[truthisfreedom]

37. yeah, yeah, probably another diversion to waste time before the election,

and someone else is really responsible but they're trying to embarass yet another member of the press.

[David Zephyr]

38. Rate This Yahoo Story A Five. Thanks EarlG.

Yahoo currently has this at a high 4.0.

Help make it a sizzling story. Rate it 5.0

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=106&ncid=742&e=1&u=/nypost/20040920/cm_nypost/thetruthaboutriflestatistics

[creeksneakers2]

39. Please don't push this story anywhere

The whole controversy hurts Kerry. I suspect the Post ran this rumor to try to trick leftists into wanting to keep the story alive.

Burkett forged the memos. The evidence is overwhelming. There is no Lucy Ramirez. Burkett made up that excuse, just like he made up the story about getting the memos from Cobb. If anybody doubts me I can make the case.

I didn't want to spoil the fun but I'm worried that pushing this story might hurt us.

[Mountainman]

42. It is hard for me to accept your position.

If this story leads to the truth and the truth is that this is a Republican dirty trick than it can't hurt Kerry. It isn't hurting Kerry now because he had nothing to do with it. Only Repubs could be hurt by this story.

[creeksneakers2]

47. The vast right wing conspiracy is trying very hard

to keep this story alive because CBS News brokered a phone call between Burkett and Kerry spokesman Joe Lockhart. The VRWC want to smear Lockhart as part of the forgery, and Max Cleland too.

As long as this story stay in the public eye, its distracting attention from issues that can really hurt Bush, like losing the war in Iraq.

Bush got his ass kicked on that one today. I watched two news programs, and fortunately, the Burkett/Lockhart story didn't run.

Burkett forged the documents. I know this is all great fun but it is never going to lead to Roger Stone. I'm sorry.

[David Zephyr]

50. You Are Right, Mountainman.

Already the White House is getting VERY QUIET about the entire CBS shit because it is turning back on them.

[yardwork]

48. The Truth will set us free

It's important to find out the truth. The election is of secondary importance to finding the truth.

[Flammable Materials]

63. So if we spend our time & effort getting "the truth" and Bush is elected

... then what?

[greg_in_wa]

65. There have been enough twists and turns...

... that I no longer trust any version of events. Burkett as the forger has as much credence as any theory I've heard.

But the idea that Roger Stone's wife or girlfriend is "Lucy Ramirez" is not out of the question.

What this new side story does though, is muddy the water. It is a classic Rove trick. 'When a story is hurting you, confuse the voters.'

It works.

Instead of hunting Joe Lockhart, the cable whores will be looking for Lucy Stone.

[seemslikeadream]

40. Other DU Threads on Roger Stone

Kerry Press release On TANG/CBS Documents
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x853182

Burkett Got The Docs From "LUCY RAMIREZ". Who Is She???
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x850509

Calling Brain Trust -- Help me Follow This (re: CBS Documents)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x850630

GOP Activist may be behind CBS National Guard memos
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x849699

CBS backs off Guard story (read further for Burkett source)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x842421

[cal04]

41. Did Buchanan say anything about this. Just wondering

after I dug this up at Village Voice

Pat Buchanan is on the tube again, co-hosting a Crossfire facsimile on MSNBC. Just a celebrity commentator now, he changed the face of American politics in 2000—unnoticed by a recount-focused media. First, he seized control of the most successful third party in half a century, the Reform Party, whose founder, Ross Perot, cost Bush I the presidency in 1992.

Once Buchanan became the party's presidential nominee, he mysteriously disappeared, getting 2.4 million votes less than Ralph Nader, 80,000 less in Florida alone. The Buchanan saga remains important not only because it reveals the seamy underside of Bush II's ascent to power, but because it shows how the GOP virtually eliminated a national centrist party that could've altered the 2004 race.

Alive now in only seven states, the party's remnants just offered their ballot line to Nader, which could also wind up benefiting Bush. The saga begins with a baby, allegedly born more than four decades ago. Incredibly, just as Bush backers in 2000 used an illegitimate-child scandal in South Carolina to smear John McCain, longtime Republican dirty-tricks operative Roger Stone was simultaneously using just such a scandal to undermine Buchanan


http://villagevoice.com/issues/0420/barrett.php

[bklyncowgirl]

78. Buchanan says it's a Democrat dirty trick

Says people on our side should go to jail.

[Pallas180]

43. hmm - roger stone seems to be going off the reservation-this quote:

""The premise for coming to New York is no longer valid," said Roger Stone, a longtime Republican political strategist who supports President Bush but is also known as a maverick who at times has opposed Republican candidates. "Karl Rove's master stroke idea may turn out to be an unmitigated disaster. It has the potential to highlight an issue that may be a negative by the time he gets to the convention."

so who was paying back who with these documents?

[DoYouEverWonder]

59. Pat Robertson does this sort of thing every now and then too

I think they just spout off these sound bites just to try to pretend that aren't rabid right wingers?

[VOX]

44. More on Stone: Apprenticed with Chuck Colson. Threw Dirt for Nixon...

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_25_51/ai_58326762
Trump's Top Op - Donald Trump's political adviser Roger Stone
National Review, Dec 31, 1999 by John J. Miller
AT AGE 47, Roger Stone is already one of the great characters of Washington-a man who embodied the liberals' "decade of greed" talk in the 1980s, when his extensive Reagan-administration contacts helped him become one of the flashiest lobbyists in town. He was like a character in a Tom Wolfe novel, a D.C. master of the universe, who bragged about how much his suits cost and bopped around in a Jaguar (when he wasn't in his chauffeur-driven Mercedes). In 1985, The New Republic tagged him a "state-of-the-art sleazeball."
<snip>
After high school, Stone enrolled at George Washington University and took an apprenticeship with Chuck Colson at the Nixon outfit, the Committee to Re-Elect the President (later known, not so affectionately, as CREEP). There, Stone adopted a pseudonym and wrote a check to Pete McCloskey, a Republican congressman from California who had been spending time in New Hampshire, thinking of challenging President Nixon. The check came from a group calling itself the Young Socialists Alliance. When it cleared the bank, Stone ran to the press to embarrass his target. "I did some things, in retrospect, which were in terribly poor judgment," he told the Washington Post in 1986. In 1974, he lost a job in Bob Dole's Senate office after Jack Anderson wrote a column pinning Stone as a "dirty trickster."

[Lady_Liberty]

51. EXCELLENT FIND!!

rezmutt!

[cureautismnow]

54. C.R.E.E.P. Redux

The damn lazy (or biased) media needs to talk about the dirty tricks perpetrated by these GOP Creepsters during the '72 campaign. America needs to be reminded what these evil-doers will do to stay in power, i.e., paying people to pose as Democrats and defecate in the streets. The outrageous "pranks" are all documented in ATPM. History repeats, while 45+% of Americans (who should know better) sleep.
:argh:

"There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee -- that says, fool me once -- shame on -- shame on you. You fool me, you can't get fooled again. - GWB, Nashville, Tennessee, Sep. 17, 2002

"Wanna bet?" 45+% Americans rhetorically affirmed in their mindless stupor, Nov. 2, 2004. :eyes:

[Flammable Materials]

64. Someone needs to buy you a beer, rezmutt.

Scratch that. Someone needs to buy you a beer TRUCK.

[robbedvoter]

52. We've got steamy juicy sex scandal - the swinging Stones

as per Atrios:
http://www.atrios.blogspot.com/
I think I understand why BFEE is avoiding the press. their victory over Rather seems Pyrric now!

[dave29]

53. Careful

The Post also said Kerry chose Gephardt

[eduardito]

55. Riddle me this

IF the whole thing is a republican dirty trick initiated by Rove, or whoever, how do you explain CBS falling for the false memos? Without CBS ignoring the forgeries and ignoring the questionable character of Burkett as thier source there would have been no story. For the dirty trick theory to hold water, they would have been convinced that CBS would violate all relevant journalistic standards in oder to advance the story.

Any ideas??

[annxburns]

57. CBS was not supposed to fall for the story. Kerry's campaign was ...

Lucy or whoever she is, wanted Kerry and the DNC to trumpet this - not CBS.

Then they could say Kerry's campaign forged the documents.

[ewagner]

69. We have a winner!

CBS was not the intended target. The Kerry Campaign was the target.


The story is too weird not to have been a setup but it's not something I can readily prove. So I won't go off the deep end with my asssertion and keep it labeled as just a hunch.

There is a woeful lack of evidence in the article linking Stone to those papers....

I won't jump on the bandwagon until there's some proof that Stone was involved.

[RobinA]

61. I'm Skeptical

of conspiracy theorizing, and this is no exception, but I can imagine an general explanation to this valid point. Who knows how many dirty tricks are out there that never see the light of day. All dirty tricks kinda depend on a predetermined schedule of events happening just so. So you plant a bunch of dirty tricks in the hopes that a few come to fruition. I seriously doubt that EVERY dirty trick breaks the way it's supposed to, and if it doesn't, it's just a fizzle that no one notices.

[merci_me]

56. A history question, circa 2000

I don't have the info in front of me, but I'm wondering about the bug that was supposedly planted in Rove's office during the 2000 election. Aren't we pretty sure that Rove was himself behind that and who took the fall? Wasn't it a gal whose name is very similar to the name Lucy Ramirez?


Evidently no one knows who Lucy Ramirez is other than a voice on the phone. I'm not saying it's the same gal, but I'm betting it's the same guy, Rove!! And, it's just a little inside joke for him, to have his posse get some gal to call using a name, that as I'm remembering is very similar to the 2000 Rove bug gal's name.

[merci_me]

60. To answer my own question...........

When Rove bugged his own office, the woman who was used to run "documents" and finally, ended up the one who paid the price, was Yvette Lorenzo. I guess when I heard the name "Lucy Ramirez" today, there was a familiar ring. I finally found, the name Lorenzo.

Link to the Sept 29, 2000 story in the Austin Chronicle.

http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/dispatch/2000-09-29/pols_naked3.html

[Justice]

70. One Thing Lockhart Said,

he talked about how many calls he gets, how many calls reporters get at this point in any campaign.

Seems to me there is a possibility that Burkett was set up and whoever did it didn't know where it would go - or whether it would go anywhere. Perhaps that tells us this is just one of many "calls" made at this point in a campaign to try to share inside information.

[DoYouEverWonder]

71. Yes, they were trying to get the Kerry Campaign

to grab the bait, which they didn't, so they are trying to connect it to the Kerry Campaign anyway.

If you don't get the story you want, then just make one up. The media will go with whatever you tell them anyway, as long as it makes Kerry look bad and Dimson look good.

[jefferson_dem]

72. I saw Stone provided commentary on THIS issue in the past couple days.

I forget if it was on CNN or FauxNews. It was mid-day on one of those quickie debate type things with him (standing in front of palm trees, looked like) against some female Dem operative (name i don't recall). Anyone else see this? Would be nice to find a transcript.

He was looking kind of ragged, by the way. All that swingin' 'round may be catching up with him.

[Carolab]

75. What about Nader

Can Stone be tied to any group/person supporting Nader? To the judge who okayed his name on the ballot in Florida?

Bush/Nader supporters include physician Peter Blitzer ($1000 to Nader, investor Wiley Buchanan III ($500 to Nader), real estate executive Donald Burns ($2000 to Nader), Stoneham, Massachusetts resident Gary Hutchins ($500 to Nader), oil company CEO Terrence Jacobs ($500 to Nader), business theorist Robert A. G. Monks ($2000 to Nader), philantropist Millicent Monks ($2000 to Nader), University of South Carolina law professor William Quirk ($500 to Nader), shampoo company ceo Frank Shami ($2000 to Nader), and actor/writer Ben Stein ($500 to Nader).

[vetwife]

83. Nader is mentioned as being backed by Stone on some of those articles

NAder and Sharpton was mention in the same article.

[illuminaughty]

76. To borrow a line from Dylan

"Just like a repug clone, like a Rove and Stone"

But you won't hear the mainstream media singing this tune, unfortunately.

Stone financed Sharpton's little stay at the Four Seasons for a little less than ten grand and another at the Mansion on Turtle Creek. A little sleepover just under $4000! Meanwhile, Kucinich is on a cot at the Econolodge!

[Swamp Rat]

77. Hope springs eternal!

I rated it 5.

:kick:

[vetwife]

84. Stone was on CNN

What a slime he is. Worked on both Bush campaigns the scoll line said. Family values. Now after 96 did W not know about the swinging Stone? hypocrites

[DoYouEverWonder]

85. When was this

Tonight or in the past?

[vetwife]

86. Just now..Blaming Terry and the DNC ...Wolf kissed him up

after he tried to pin him down and the dude does still live in Miami. Said he didn't want to answer anyone on Sunday.HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA !
Does he have religion now? Between the swinging and the lying ?

[DoYouEverWonder]

87. He's also got a joint

on Central Park South. All that gaming money, I suppose?

[AnIndependentTexan]

88. paid GOP activists were flown in to shut down an ongoing recount

http://www.offthekuff.com/mt/archives/002266.html

Roger Stone update
My faithful correspondent Alfredo Garcia has been mailing me regular updates on the case of Mary McCarty and Roger Stone. McCarty is a Republican County Commissioner from Palm Beach who was cited for election law violations as chair of a PAC called the Committee to Take Back Our Judiciary, which was formed in the aftermath of the Florida election circus of 2000 with the intent of unelecting three state Supreme Court judges who had had made a favorable ruling to Al Gore in his effort to get a statewide recount. Stone is the man who allegedly financed the PAC; McCarty claims she did nothing knowingly wrong but merely followed Stone's bidding. You can read some background here, here, here, here, and here.

All along, Stone has refused to give up any information about the source of the $150,000 that was used to fund Take Back Our Judiciary, and the state laws are essentially toothless to compel him to do so. Now comes the kicker: Stone was personally recruited by James Baker to "help the Bush-Cheney post-election campaign in Florida".



“Shortly after Election Day, Stone received a call from Baker aide Margaret Tutwiler, who said, “Mr. Baker would like you to go to Florida,” Toobin wrote in “Too Close to Call,” his 2001 book on the presidential election meltdown.

Toobin also reported that on Nov. 22, 2000, Stone was a leader at a noisy protest outside the Miami-Dade County election division’s offices in the Stephen P. Clark Center in downtown Miami. The protesters were upset about the recount that was ordered to continue the day before by a unanimous Florida Supreme Court. The protest disrupted the recount.

“From a building across the street, Roger Stone communicated with his people on the ground by walkie-talkie,” wrote Toobin, who interviewed Stone for the book.



I do believe he's referring to the so-called bourgeois riot, in which paid GOP activists were flown in to shut down an ongoing recount. Amazing how cozy these working relationships can be, isn't it?

This is yet another piece in a larger pattern of grabbing power by the national Republican Party. I can joke all I want to about tinfoil hats, but at some point one has to wonder if it's crazier to believe or not to believe. Teresa's words, first spoken here, ring more and more true: "I deeply resent the way this administration makes me feel like a nutbar conspiracy theorist."

[AnIndependentTexan]

89. motive maybe?

http://www.polstate.com/archives/005265.html
Monday, April 12, 2004
NY: (Convention) Buyer's Remorse?
by Peter Levinson

Whether New Yorkers feel they need a reminder that the war on terror can be fought in New York City, the reporter doesn't say. Roger Stone gets the last word in the Times story.
"I think the decision to go to New York was predicated on the fact that this war effort was as successful as the gulf war effort under President George H. W. Bush," he said. But, he added, "While the conduct of the war was probably a plus for the president, it now has the potential to be a negative and therefore the party's presence in New York becomes problematic."

[0007]

93. Way to fire AIT

[Geek_Girl]

90. Lucy Ramirez? Lucia Ramirez?

I posted this on the other thread but then found this thread so I decided to post in both places. I'm new to this forum and wasn't sure the best place to post this info.


http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=...

It looks like a court case involving bank fraud in south Florida. With someone by the name of Lucia Ramirez. The reason why I think there maybe a connection is because I know stone and bunch of these others are in south Florida. I know it seems like a long shot but just though I'd put it out their.

In February of 1995, BankAtlantic acquired MegaBank, a Dade County commercial bank, in order to create an international division. MegaBank's international division was headed by Piedad Ortiz, and after the acquisition, she became Vice President of BankAtlantic's international division. Ortiz had overseen approximately 1100 accounts at MegaBank, and she continued this supervision at BankAtlantic. Shortly after acquiring MegaBank, BankAtlantic conducted an internal audit of its new international division, and this audit revealed suspicious practices. A private pouch service made regular deliveries addressed to "BankAtlantic, International Division, Attention Ms. Piedad Ortiz." These pouches, which were uninsured, contained large amounts of checks, money orders and negotiable instruments along with deposit and transfer instructions. The pouches originated from a private courier service-discretely located in the back of another business-in Bogota, Columbia, and the checks and other instruments transported in the pouches were from various locations in the United States, including New York and New Jersey. BankAtlantic discovered that Ortiz and her assistant, Lucia Ramirez (who had also joined BankAtlantic as part of the MegaBank acquisition), were responsible for initiating and maintaining this pouch service.

[vetwife]

91. Sounds like her..Dade county = Miami...What are the

chances that those two names with tht much dirt in that location?
with Bush Borther's MO of swindling?

[trueblew]

92. President Kerry...

is the only candidate running in this race who is willing to find out who forged the Iraq/Nigeria documents.