A US sniper's story: 'Everyone I shot deserved it. It doesn't bother me'

[Nambe]

The Observer

Specialist James Wilks, 25, from Fort Worth, Texas, sits in the searing sun outside his barrack block in Camp Eagle, smoking a menthol cigarette. Beyond the blast walls, sentry towers and barbed wire lies Sadr City, a Baghdad suburb where throughout the summer fighters loyal to a radical Shia Muslim cleric have fought running battles with the American troops based here. A day earlier, fighting had flared again in the narrow, rubbish-strewn alleyways that for months have been Wilks's hunting ground.

Wilks is a sniper and is proud of the three 'kills' he has notched up in the first six months of his year's tour of duty. The first came in early April, during an assault on a position held by Shia militiamen.

'It was night and low visibility,' Wilks said. 'But I saw a guy with an AK-47 lit up by the porch light in a doorway about 400 metres away. I watched him through the sights. He looked like just another Iraqi. I hit him low in the stomach and dropped him.' ..

Groombridge points out a mosque from where gunmen opened fire a few weeks earlier. Jesus Sales, a 21-year-old who joined the army to pay for college fees, is the unit's reserve sniper. He shot a man a few weeks earlier: 'I didn't feel anything weird. I just felt satisfied.'

Wilks is equally phlegmatic: 'Sometimes I feel like I should feel guilty, but I don't. Everyone I shot deserved it. It doesn't bother me.'

[candy331]

1. Will he be able to turn off that attitude when he arrives back home

or will he find killing is a sport now?

[Lucky Luciano]

3. Maybe you are right

Let's introduce him to the Predator since the Predator also plays for sport.

[Career Prole]

61. Well perhaps...but only if he determines they deserve it.

:wtf:

[Liberal Til I Die]

64. What do you mean by that?

I don't get it, are you trying to suggest that snipers and anyone with a "kill" in combat comes back psychotic?

[RapidCreek]

99. Nah they come back feeling real good about it.

Killing people is a very satisfying thing....great for ones self image....it really puts the value of human life in perspective for a guy.

RC
USNvet

[mrbassman03]

77. Every bitch I've smacked deserved it...

Or child I've beaten... wtf is wrong with stupid people in the military?

[sr_pacifica]

80. Let's face it

The military often attracts a certain type, people who aren't particularly sensitive about other people's pain and suffering, that is, if they are considered "the other." That's why I can completely believe the Abu Ghraib terrors were quite possibly American soldier "hi-jinks." From the experience of being an Air Force brat and what I'd hear from my father, the military has its share of assholes just like the rest of society and maybe even moreso.

Furthermore, these guys are young and sometimes it takes age and experience to appreciate your own life and the ones that are dear to you before you start empathizing with others' losses.

[wackywill]

88. My experience from 72-75

leads me to believe the Military not only attracts but strives to develop an insensitivity to killing in general....guess they have to. I remember a class on setting up ambushes where the instructor started the the class by screaming the word "KILL KILL KILL" over and over, that being the only purpose of an ambush.
More troubling is that our civilian police departments and other govt agencies use "dehumanizing" techniques to desensitize their officers. By using words like "smack, dick, dink, etc to describe members of the general public they separate themselves from the rest of society. Thus it becomes much easier to beat a smack then your fellow citizen.
I kind of know about this as I was an MP in an elite unit from 73 to 75 in the US Army. After getting out in 75 I came to my senses and chose to pursue another profession rather than being part of the govt'.

[saigon68]

91. Look at the Rodney King Phenomenon

Operation " Kick the shit out of the Black man"

[sr_pacifica]

94. I'm glad you came to your senses

Not every one has the courage to question their old ways of thinking.

[drdtroit]

115. Like (p)Resident Bush?

[RapidCreek]

98. Probably get a job as a cop.

RC

[DivinBreuvage]

2. Three in six months?

He'll do much better once he gets back home and decides to climb a bell-tower after he gets fired.

[Yupster]

21. Three in six months?

That was my reaction too.

You'd think Iraq qould be a sniper's dream battlefield with poorly trained opponents walking city streets armed.

I would think a rooftop sniper would be able to do some serious damage.

[Ohio rules]

34. They are not mass killers,they've trained to be selective

Only three means they are very selective in targets of opportunity.
good for them.
Sure, I would guess they chose not to shoot 100 times before pulling the trigger once.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

87. Sorry, but I'm sensing that something is out of whack here....

...or my old military training is out-of-date.

As a sniper, you're going to pull the trigger on a lot more than three targets in six months time. For instance, Carlos Hathcock was one of the best-known snipers to come out of the Vietnam War. From an article written after his death:
===================================
Washington Post
February 27, 1999
Pg. C1
The Sniper With A Steadfast Aim
<http://www.snipercentral.com/wpost.htm>

Excerpt:

"In two tours in the 1960s, he wandered through the big bad bush in the Republic of South Vietnam, and with a rifle made by Winchester, a heart made by God and a discipline made by the Marine Corps, he stalked and killed 93 of his country's enemies. And that was only the official count."
==================================

MY NOTE: Please forgive the "gung-ho" language, but I think the 93 confirmed kills in two years gets my message across. That's roughly 46 kills per year, or not quite 4 kills per month.

[RapidCreek]

100. Only three means they are scared shitless of being blown away

and are most likely hiding behind a pile of sand bags with their rifle held over the top while they pull the trigger repeatedly.

RC

[w4rma]

4. Thats his job. All nations need folks like this to help protect

the citizens of the nation. Unfortunately his skills are being wasted in Iraq.

[TacticalPeek]

8. There it is.

Send this guy to the Stans. That's where we have enemies that need destroying.

[EST]

27. Is there somewhere else you'd like to redeploy him?

on edit: rhetorical question-sorry I asked.

[donsu]

38. all nations need snipers??????

if murdering three people doesn't bother this guy, he is a sociopath.


all nations need peace keepers.


men who don't mind murdering people should be in locked mental institutions.

[Radius]

52. Every nation has them.

and had had them for 100 years. Canada is the current record holder for the longest kill, Afganastan, Taliban, 2300meteres.

Peace keepers carry guns, bosnian genocide took killing people to stop. Please doesn't always work.

This is not a comment on the war, only a narrow statement. The guy is doing his job, which was authorized by congress and therefore not comitting murder.

[mrbassman03]

78. Everyone should care about killing...

Like was said before, If you don't mind killing someone, there are serious problems.

[geek tragedy]

57. Thank you for insulting every soldier who has ever served this country.

[RapidCreek]

101. I know plenty of soldiers...I was one

and I would agree with the person you claim has insulted me. He has not. Any man who kills another and feels satisfied afterwards is a truly sick fuck.

RC

[ssimmons]

62. It's not murder if you kill those trying to kill you

These snipers are doing their job. It's an ugly job but it's not murder.

[mike_c]

71. he's occupying their country and they want him out....

That makes it murder. He's not defending anything but the imperialist intent of the neo-cons and Haliburton's right to war profits. Killing people for defending their country against an invader who's raping the resource base is murderous, IMO.

[RapidCreek]

102. Great to know that....

I wonder if you'll fell the same if China occupies the US and blows your daddy away. Hey it's an ugly job but it ain't murder, right?

RC

[geek tragedy]

103. If his daddy, or my daddy, is shooting at the Chinese, it ain't murder.

That's just a fact of war.

Blaming the soldiers is wrongheaded and counter-productive.

[RapidCreek]

106. We'll see how you feel when one is visited upon your town

Your town or country ever been invaded by corporate mercenaries paid by a foreign government chief?

You ever been compelled at the point of a gun to accept some son of a bitch as your ruler, boss or mayor who ran away from your country or got thrown out...some son of a bitch working to stuff money into the pockets of the fuckers who paid to put him in power?

Your house ever been blown up, your kid and wife killed because you didn't want to submit?

I'm guessing probably not.

Pretty easy to talk a bunch of tough guy bullshit when you're sitting comfortably on your ass in the most heavily armed country in the world ain't it?

RC

[geek tragedy]

107. Take your chickenhawk accusation and shove it.

I'm talking about the rules of war. Stupid, inflammatory rhetoric doesn't change the basic fact that our soldiers aren't murderers.

Try arguing from fact and logic instead.

If you have a coherent argument why our troops are murderers, besides the fact that you're cheering for them to get killed/cheering for the guys shooting at them, please let us know.

[RapidCreek]

113. Rules of war? According to you there are no rules of war....

that, or they only apply to everyone else.

In that you seem to be a big fan of coherent arguments explain this one...

If you have a coherent argument why our troops are murderers, besides the fact that you're cheering for them to get killed/cheering for the guys shooting at them, please let us know.

1. ...besides the fact that you're cheering for them to get killed/cheering for the guys shooting at them....

A.Where did I cheer for them to get killed?

B. Where did I cheer for the guys shooting at them

C. Who is us?

D. Are you suggesting that the above is a coherent argument? Because that is what your sentence states.

I would ask you to point out what exactly in my post was A. Stupid B. Inflamintory. Please elaborate.

RC

[MercutioATC]

5. I have a friend who was a Marine on guard duty in the Phillipines

at the U.S. Embassy when it was stormed in the 80's. He watched his friend get his throat slit and was overwhelmed by the insurgents (permanent damage to his knee). During the incident, he had 46 confirmed kills, mostly head shots, mostly after he had been knocked to the ground. It took him over six months to be released back to the states by the military because they were concerned when he told them "I don't feel bad...I did what I was trained to do".

I get the impression that it's not an uncommon response. It doesn't make somebody a monster (this guy has two kids and is, perhaps, the most accomplished "family man" I've ever known). It's a coping mechanism.

Regardless of this story, there's nobody I'd rather have at my side if I got into trouble.

[barb162]

6. I talked to a sniper who was in Nam

he had no problem with it...seemed like the most normal person in the world. Just like in World War 2 if your commanding officer tells you to hold a position, you do it. THe looked at it as the "enemy" and he was defending South Vietnam from the Viet COng/Communists. Anyway, this guy had no issues with sleeping, ethical problems with it, etc. To him it was my country sent me to do this, I did it, end of story. I think he killed several hundred if not a few thousand. I talked to him in the 1980s, so several years after Nam was over.

[daleo]

23. I doubt if he killed a few thousand through sniping

That would require killing 1 person a day for 6 or 7 years. That just doesn't seem possible. Perhaps if he manned some rapid fire gun from the air, this might be more within the realm of possibility, but that isn't what is meant by sniping.

In either case, anyone who could go through that and not feel bad about it seems inhuman to me.

[Bruce McAuley]

37. Aye, there's the rub...

These GUYS are typical men, by all accounts, whether it affects them outwardly as in delayed stress, or they just never talk about it and wall it up in a little corner of their mind successfully. Some do, some don't.
Men are enabled/disabled(?) by nature with being either deviod or able to contain strong emotions about death and killing/hunting that would cause a woman to step back and say, "Hey, maybe we better talk about this order to kill?".
Being a common man myself, I have killed animals for my food, and had to kill a few suffering dogs with a gun. Most men are able to do it, as the Army knows all too well.
Another reason we need women running things, to be asking the important questions rather than dancing a jig when you are about to execute Carla Faye Tucker, eh?

Bruce

[foo_bar]

40. it's very human

depression and self-examination hardly manifest in war zones. We're evolved to survive first, have nightmares later.

[sr_pacifica]

81. True

I wonder what these quoted snipers will have to say a few years down the road.

[barb162]

44. not quite, what he told me was that he would be sent

out into the jungle on some known road or large paths where they knew the Viet Cong travelled. He was to kill anyone who was on that road. He would do this for 1 to 2 weeks at a time by himself til his food ran out, and then he'd get picked up, take a few days off and go back. The numbers I mentioned are correct.

[FlemingsGhost]

7. He's lying, he's afraid.

Somewhere, an Iraqi militiaman is spouting off in a very similar fashion, and Wilks knows it.

I wonder who meets their destiny first ...

[Ms. Clio]

9. A Mehdi Army militiaman says, "Every American I shot, deserved it"

I wish I believed in hell, so I could rest easy knowing the Bushistas would burn there forever.

[EST]

28. Ditto-just plain fucking, bitter,sad ditto.

n/t

[The_Casual_Observer]

10. So, Saddam is gone, Who are we fighting and why?

The newest reason for being at war (other than 9/11) was to get rid of Saddam. Saddam is gone. It's time to leave.

[drdtroit]

11. First

we gotta figure out how to bring all of our oil home.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

13. Can't just up and leave Iraq a smoking ruin.

Even if it is a smoking ruin, it is now our smoking ruin.

There are native american tribes who have a tradition that if you save a person's life you are responsible for them from then on. Like it or not, we are responsible for Iraq. We broke it, so we bought it.

I think Kerry is more likely to actually help Iraqis and Afghanis than is Bush.

[The_Casual_Observer]

14. it is now our smoking ruin

I don't think that the Iraqis think it belongs to us. Has anybody asked the Iraqis what they think?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

17. Read what I wrote please.

I didn't imply that we owned it, as in possess (i.e. take the oil home for free). When I said we broke it so we bought it, I was thinking of the pottery store syndrome. Obviously we don't "own it" in the strict sense of possession. What I explicitly said was that we are "responsible" for Iraq. I think that is the clear thrust of what I wrote. I closed the post with the contention that Kerry is more likely to actually help Iraqis and Afghanis than Bush. Notice that I referred to the people, not the countries.

[The_Casual_Observer]

20. I know what you are saying

And there has been a big effort to fix it for them, but it has failed. They are unable to subdue the uprising to the extent necessary to get the projects done or even started. Contrary to what many in the media would like us to believe, the situation will worsen with time, not improve. A genie was released by bush and his people, and nobody really knows what to do about it.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

24. Much to agree with.

The_Casual_Observer wrote:

And there has been a big effort to fix it for them, but it has failed. They are unable to subdue the uprising to the extent necessary to get the projects done or even started. Contrary to what many in the media would like us to believe, the situation will worsen with time, not improve. A genie was released by bush and his people, and nobody really knows what to do about it.

I agree with these statements (they are well written too), except that I'm not convinced at this time that the situation will worsen. There is a high likelihood that it will worsen before it gets better, but it might ultimately get better. It might not. Of course the damage that Bush has done to the US reputation will take a generation or more to repair. He has negated all the good reputation that the US got from its efforts in WW2.

[FlemingsGhost]

16. Nonsense. We now have two simple choices:

Leave of our own free-will, or get our sorry asses thrown out.

The war is lost, friend. All that's left is to see how many more casualities the American people can stand before pulling stakes.
Sheesh ... after Vietnam, we ought to know better than to stick around someplace we are not wanted.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

18. Geo-politics is not simple. To think that it is simple is naive.

Geo-politics is not simple. To think that it is simple is naive.

There are many more than two choices.

In my opinion, the most likely scenario is that Iraq holds some kind of election, probably in January, and then the elected government asks the US to leave. After negotiations, the US leaves over a period of months and perhaps a year or two.

[FlemingsGhost]

19. Thirty-five words to summarize your scenario ...

That's pretty simple.

To think the "elected" government won't crumble and fall is naive.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

22. Duh.

Of course it is a summary. But it is not so simple-minded as to say that there are only two choices and that those two choices are simple.

The elected government may well crumble and fall after the US leaves or even as it is leaving. That scenario is already well beyond your "two simple choices".

[FlemingsGhost]

26. And how exactly is that doing right by the Iraqi people?

We break it, buy it, and then try and return it later as defective? (I'm guessing your not Native American.) And what of the 14 permanent military bases currently under construction?

Feel free to summarize your point further. I won't accuse you of being "simple-minded." Although, muttering "Duh" isn't helping your cause ...

(edited for punctuation)

[mike_c]

73. who's going to occupy the 14 permanent military bases...

...and the largest embassy in the world? The U.S. has no intention of willingly leaving Iraq.

[Aidoneus]

51. The continued presence is what makes it a "smoking ruin"

this "broke it/bought it" line is flawed. The proper version is you broke it, now there is the punishments..

Kerry may indeed be able to maintain a more "successful" occupation; damn him for it, if so.

[mike_c]

72. "...we bought it..."-- that is so arrogant....

The Iraqi's seem to think differently about our having "bought" their country.

[0007]

31. Bring the troops home now

[barb162]

46. some observers, reporters are saying the country

is in civil war now and Bush is doing everything he can to keep it quiet and of course the media is helping out on that. Who owns the media? There's whole areas of the cities and countryside we never enter. I suspect the mullahs will take over and impose sharia law except for the kurdish areas.

[CityDem]

12. Wait a few months

He may begin to realize the guy he shot was a father, brother and a son. He may begin to feel a little differently.

[Dr Fate]

15. I hope he makes it back in one piece...

...cuz this war is a huge mistake-he is just following orders...

[sleipnir]

25. "A US Sniper is killed, Iraqi says 'He deserved it'"

Same story different spin. Depends on what side you're on. Each American/Iraqi death, I'm sure you can find someone in Iraq/America who says they deserved it, and perhaps a few did, but that still doesn't make this war right.

No one should die from this folly by Bush and the worst part is the war crimes both sides are willing to commit and both sides are being punished by retribution. It's a vicious cycle and it should end now.

[EST]

29. The great nasty unstated, even ignored deception

of this whole beauty contest has to do with the constant hammering, from all sides, on 'exit strategy.' We say they didn't do a good job of formulating one and they say their hand was forced. The sad, bitter, ironic truth is also the biggest lie. These crazy bastards didn't have an effective exit strategy because they planned never to exit. This isn't and never was a program to "liberate" anybody. What a public sham! this was to be only the first step and the launching area for the next step in the pnac takeover. Those fuckers aren't going to leave, at least until our forces are expelled or killed. As hard as it is to take, IMO, al Sadr is, de facto, saving the world from pnac. What truly bitter irony.

[Swamp Rat]

30. This is tragic

:-(

[Disturbed]

32. Killing in war.

Many do not have pangs of guilt. It is the nature of war and the mind.
People have been doing this for many thousands of years. It doesn't seem right but it goes on and on.

An elected Iraqi Govt. is a cruel joke. It will be the same as the US Puppet one that is there now.

Full Sovereignty?

"Throughout the spring, as hundreds died in the spiraling conflict, as Regime bosses applied their hardcore "anti-terrorist" tortures to innocent bystanders raked up in their occupation nets, as Regime mouthpieces prated endlessly of "liberation" and "sovereignty," Bush viceroy Paul Bremer was quietly signing a series of edicts that will give the United States effective control over the military, ministries -- and money -- of any Iraqi government, for years to come, The Wall Street Journal reports.

Bremer has placed U.S.-appointed "commissions" made up of Americans and local puppets throughout Iraqi government agencies; the ministers supposedly in charge weren't even told of the edicts. These boards "will serve multiyear terms and have significant authority to run criminal investigations, award contracts, direct troops and subpoena citizens," the Journal reports. Any new Iraqi government "will have little control over its armed forces, lack the ability to make or change laws and be unable to make major decisions within specific ministries without tacit U.S. approval, say U.S. officials.


Earlier Bremer edicts laid the Iraqi economy wide open to ruthless exploitation by Bush-approved foreign "investors"; dominance of such key sectors as banking, communications -- and energy -- is already well advanced. The latest dictates aim to ensure that this organized looting goes on, no matter what kind of makeshift "interim government" the United Nations manage to piece together. Bush's plans to build a Saddamite fortress embassy in Baghdad and 14 permanent military bases around the country are designed to provide the knee-breaking "security" for these lucrative arrangements."


http://context.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2004/05/21/120.html

[DubyaSux]

33. This is why....

.....war should be the very, ver last resort. War is horrific and there's no other way around it.

Unfortunately, this guy is doing what he's been trained to do and appears to do his job very well, regardless of how fucked up we think it is.

If sniping saves American lives, it should be done. I don't want anybody over there, but I don't want any of them coming home in a body bag. It makes no sense to hamstring our troops because we think their tactics are abhorrent, and standby and watch as our enemies use that tactic successfully against us. And it's completely disingenuous to sit behind our computer screens in the comfort of our homes and dictate which tactics are effective.

I am against this war with every fiber in my body, but if we have to be there, I want our troops to fight to win.

[Radius]

35. Agree

Sniping is actually a very "clean" way to kill armed people. One shot from a high powered rifle is better than a missile or 500lb bomb, or even heavy machine gun fire.

http://www.snipercentral.com/m24.htm (Sniper Rifle)

Sniping is a very old tactic.

If we are there we should fight all out, if not we should leave. Guy is doing his job. Until (a) the President orders him out it is unfair to criticize him for doing it.

[mike_c]

75. of course it's "fair" to criticize him for doing his job if his job...

...is murdering civilian partisans resisting the occupation of their country. He and his buddies are doing their "job" in our names, for god's sake-- we give legitimacy to their job, which would otherwise be murder plain and simple. Our names are all that separates this sniper from John Allen Muhammad. I think it's quite fair to "criticize" him.

[geek tragedy]

90. Civilian partisans?

If a person has a gun and is resisting the US, they ain't a civilian.

There is a giant, humungous, undeniable difference between this guy and John Allen Muhammed.

[Malva Zebrina]

42. Our enemies?

These people were our "friends" as we entered into the war and I am not quoting Bush--when they started to get bombed by the thousands, their children, parents and all the innocents we so bravely bombed, is when they thought they would defend their country. The straw that broke the camel's back is when their newspaper was shut down. Seeing no difference, relatively between Saddam and Bush, they, bravely, I will add, are fighting, literally, for their freedom.

We are not fighting for "freedom" and never were in Iraq. A war that was waged on total lies, and now we have heart dead soldiers sniping and killing in fear and rage. I hate it when that word, freedom, is used in conjunction with our military occupation of Iraq and other places.

A helicopter fired into a crowd of civilians yesterday killing tens or more of them. Is this our way of being responsible for what "we broke"? It reminds me of someone, to use the pottery store analogy, goes into the store and deliberately breaks everything so the guy who wanted to close the failing store can claim insurance and close up shop--or deliberate arson

We, imo, deliberately broke Iraq so all those corpos could come to the rescue and fix what we so blithly, without a shred of concern for human life or for the rich history contained there, broke. No, it was done on purpose .

We should get out now--spraying a crowd of civilians, children included, with bullets from a helicopter, as a show of some kind of bravery or superior military might, is not acceptable to me.

Let the corpos stay and let them fix what we broke, and deal with the Iraqi people-let them use their mercenaries to protect them and not our troops-they have no intention of leaving before they make their war profit.

I don't buy the noble white man's burden thing.

[Radius]

43. There is an AP link

To this incident. We fired a missile at a disabled vehicle overrun by armed men. The vehicle carries ordinance that can be used to kill our people. The crew was injured and the guys who disabled it had a party around it and were hamming it up for al-jiz and got killed.

AP shows them as combatants.

In November this could become our war. We comitted a 4 year term. The sooner the iraqis start killing these people and we can leave the better.

BTW the insurgents killed a 7 year old trying to blow up a police station. Your enemy's enemy is not your friend. When kerry is elected how will you approach the war then?

[Malva Zebrina]

45. Of course they are combatants--little dancing children are the worst of

them all and that portrays exactly the disgust I feel at this slaughtering of human beings.

What else can they say? If they don't say they were combatants they will be accused of war crimes. That is the beauty of the utter insanity of pre-emptive attacks made solely on suspicions. Besides the leeway it gives to motives other than they were the enemy. We see it over and over--houses "suspected" of harboring insurgents, automobiles 'suspected" of being car bombs, killing all the inhabitants, including children or babies, in there only to find it full of vegetables instead of bombs.

[shadu]

48. We are the enemy. Let no more Iraqi blood be shed.

That seven-year-old died because of
our monstrous invasion of his country.
Under no conditions did he deserve to die.

We must work hard to extract the US from Iraq.

[Radius]

50. He died

Because someone used explosives rigged with a remote detonator and triggered an explosion to attempt to kill Iraqi police.

That person(s) could have used aimed fire but choose an indiscriminate tool.

I disagree with the war but will never consider US troops authorized by congress (who could un authorize if they wished) deployed abroad my enemy. Sorry. I consider myself lucky to live somewhere where your opinion expressed in public will not get you shot.

Both candidates support the war, it is a reality. However the sooner we get out the better.

[Malva Zebrina]

54. No way

He was just there looking at the wreckage and perhaps dancing as is the custom in those areas.

If the logic is that because someone fighting for their freedom over their country being occupied by a gigantic, invasive military force who has killed thousands of their kin, bombed or detonated an explosive that killed the enemy occupiers and their oppresive giant military machine, that he and innocent child was murdered, because Americans sprayed bullets over any and all civilians that were there, then it is totally corrupt and insensible logic.

Blame the victims--go right ahead. It is wrong and you know it.

[Radius]

55. Different incidents.

I'm takling about an incident where insurgents detonated a bomb trying to kill Iraqi police and killed a child. No americans were involved.

Not the Bradley incident, which appears to have killed civillians.

[mike_c]

76. keep deluding yourself....

It makes it easier to sleep at night.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Porcupine]

60. Combatants? That's Nuts....

nobody and none of the photos show any attempt by Iraqi's to put out the fire in the burning Bradley APC.

I doubt they were going to get much out of it while it was burning. It's likely that most of the ammunition had already cooked off or been offloaded.

But it's okay. America doesn't need allies or the good opinion of the rest of the world do we? We have become worse than the terror that we pretend to oppose in the eyes of the world. Don't doubt it.

[Paladin]

36. Oh Great. More Sniper Worship

Oh, well. I guess it's a little respite from the constant braying about how nice it is that the AWB is going away. Or from more spewing from our gun-loving "Democrats" about the supposed shortcomings of John Kerry. Or from announcements about this week's definition of an "Assault Weapon." Or from the latest "Hey, You Stupid Fucking Gun-Grabbers! What's This Little Round Piece Of Metal For?" posting. Or from another thread expressing glee about a dead law enforcement officer. Or from any number of other set pieces that the RKBA militants impose on us down in the Gun Dungeon......

[Radius]

41. You are aware

That the standard sniper rifle is bolt action. A 100 year old design. Not an AW by a long shot. More like a deer rifle. Semi automatic rifles are not accurate enough to do that work.

Democrats own guns and they also don't want our guys getting killed. So until a president withdraws from Iraq we are going to have to deal with it.

Both candidates have stated their intentions to stay in Iraq for at minimum 4 years.

[donsu]

39. bring the troops home NOW - put the bushgang in prison NOW

nt

[Comadreja]

47. Sounds like another style of sniper mentality

This is the result of declaring any boob that gets in a uniform and shoots people a "hero."

[Radius]

49. Where

is the pic of the pregnant lady and her kids shot by hamas "gunmen". Takes a real man to put an ak round in a kid in a car seat.

All they have is rocks right?
http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/album43/fbo874tlij

If they shoot this guy and hit the civis he is mixed in with is that a war crime?
http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/album43/is33

I'll spare you the pictures of a infant in a car seat dead and its (cant tell sex because of trauma) dead mother and siblings.

Left out europe, don't let the secret out though. Europe sells arms to the zionists too.

[Malva Zebrina]

56. I agree

the romanticizing of the military operation in Iraq, especially, is not in the best interest of anyone. Iraq-- no army, no air force, and no navy was easily invaded and bombed to bits on the lies of an insane man, killing thousands of civilians sleeping in their beds, and now a bunch of rag tag insurgents bent upon defending and fighting for their freedom and their country, wreaking havoc upon the invaders and the occupiers with homemade bombs and suicide bombs, whose casualties outnumber the invaders by at least ten to one. Still they fight as any resistance movement does and has done in the past. They are now the "enemy"--and are dubbed , unbelievably, "terrorists"

Oh what romantic stories can be brought home and told about this war to children at home.

[Demeter]

53. Shades of GROSSE POINTE BLANK

Sorry, kid, it's already been done, by John Cusak.

[Thurston Howe IV]

58. Didn't know Napoleon was giving everyone the finger

I like the new photo - good job!

[bvar22]

63. "I hit him low in the stomach ..."

This statement is especially troubling, since he says it with some pride. This was a standing target at 400 yards; our guy was a trained sniper. If he hit this man in the lower stomach it is because he wanted to hit him in the lower stomach. This is absolutely the most painful, slow, agonizing death one can imagine.

There is much more here (pathology) than someone dispassionately taking out a target in combat.

[w4rma]

66. If not treated. If treated it can be a survivable wound.

Maybe the tactic in that case was to decapacitate for a potential capture and interrogation?

[msmcghee]

65. Killing is easy enough, especially at . .

. . several hundred meters and never having to face the enemy directly. In the big scheme of things, a sniper killing is a rather cowardly act - not very sporting at all.

But, back to the real thread here. IMO it can be either cowardly or heroic - depending on the social setting. For example, the Vikings would cruise the shores of what is now the British Isles, come ashore at peaceful farming settlements, kill all the males and many of the rest, then haul off the best looking women of child bearing age and any valuables.

Then they made up songs and poems about their courage and lust and became great heroes.

Here, in the sixties, we had large numbers of people believing that killing Asians in Viet Nam was not heroic. The result was huge numbers of GIs returning with PTSD. Many of those guys were unable to deal with their guilt. Some of them are still on the streets today asking for a handout.

I bet that many of today's GIs will suffer the same fate. The guy on that front porch could have been protecting his home from looters.

Added on edit: I suggest that anyone who thinks killing for your country is so heroic, check out Schindler's List from the video store and watch it again. We have no right to be in Iraq killing people. The GI's there are racist criminals, killing Arab civilians, no matter how they try to justify it.

[geek tragedy]

92. The Free Republic thanks you for hating our troops, including our

neighbors, sons, daughters, friends, husbands, and wives.

Blame the thugs in charge, but don't you dare start hating on those betrayed by Bush. They are dying and suffering a hell of a lot more than you ever will because of this.

In short, take your hatred of the US troops and shove it.

[RapidCreek]

104. Yea....man all those Germans where just following orders

it was all Hitlers fault.

In short take you hatred of the Nazis and shove it.

RC

[geek tragedy]

109. Comparing our troops to Nazis now? You are a Freeper's fantasy.

Are you planning to spit on them when they get back from the airport with a "babykiller" sign?

I don't give a flying fuck how many people you killed in combat. Your hatred of our troops is offensive and stinks to high hell. Your idiotic, disgusting comments are a disgrace to DU.

And German army troops were not considered murderers, from a legal point of view. Not that facts have anything to do with your deep hatred for American troops.

[RapidCreek]

112. obviously you are a child

German combat troops were not considered murderers? Tell that to the Russian civilians who were systematically murdered in retaliation to the partisons Hitler was trying to demotivate. Study your history before you open your mouth sonny boy unless you enjoy sounding ignorant.

RC

[Surf Cowboy]

67. A Good Soldier. We don't need killers who are bothered by killing.

It kinda defeats the purpose. We train these guys to kill without emotion or consideration, because if orders aren't followed, the system breaks down, the wheels come off the plan, and more people get hurt. He'll be fine.

[msmcghee]

68. The system also breaks down when . .

. . wars are fought without the wholehearted approval of the people who sponsor them - that's us. At least this is true in a democracy.

That means there needs to be an imminent threat to our security. In this case there was not. And these GIs will suffer the consequences of that. Some already have.

That was the point of my previous post.

[Surf Cowboy]

70. I guess 55 posters missed it, as well. Sorry.

[msmcghee]

74. You say . .

The history of our race, and each individual's experience, are sown thick with evidence that a truth is not hard to kill and that a lie told well is immortal.

That's because People believe what feels good - they only use their brains to justify it.

[Surf Cowboy]

79. Again, I must've missed your point....

[hippywife]

84. The saddest fact of all...

"We train these guys to kill without emotion or consideration"

Glad you can so glibbly glide over this. No one should ever be trained to do this. It isn't just a crime against the people he will eventually kill but a crime against him, as well.

[RapidCreek]

105. People can't be trained to kill without emotion or consideration

One can follow an order and be bothered by it. One can also decline to follow a shitty order and pay the consequences, such behavior is that of a truly brave selfless sole.

Frankly if every soldier who was ordered to go to Iraq said "no" 1023 Americans would be alive, a few thousand would not be injured and my tax money wouldn't be being wasted to pay Haliburtons mercenary bills.

Would I be the first person to grab a gun and kill people who invaded my country? Yep I would. Would it bother me...yes it would. Would I refuse to go to Iraq? Yes I would. Would I be willing to pay the price? Uh huh.

I'm curious...have you ever killed anyone? In combat or otherwise? I'm guessing from you rather cavalier attitude concerning the isseu that you have not.

RC

[geek tragedy]

108. So, anyone who hasn't seen combat should just STFU?

Not quite.

[RapidCreek]

114. Yea that's pretty much what I'm saying...uh huh

at least in your case.

RC

[forgethell]

69. I worked for a guy

who was a DEA sniper in 'Nam. Nice enough guy, bad temper, but not violent. He later became President of the company. In my opinion, a sniper and a corporate executive should be a perfect match, personality-wise. This guy may go far in life.

[sr_pacifica]

82. I notice a lot of empathy for these soldiers

and explanations and justifications for their attitudes. But, you know, one of these days these guys might be the old veterans that, despite the death and destruction they've seen, still are gung-ho about sending young men and women to war, just like some of the old Korean and WWII vets have been. For some, the war experience seems to bring no enlightenment whatsoever, Bob Dole case in point. On the other end of the spectrum was George McGovern who was a bomber pilot during WWII and virulently against the Vietnam War. The army is made up of all types, and notwithstanding the war experience, some are just mean assholes, war or not.

[JSJ]

83. sniping, torture, infanticide- 30% of troops have pre-service criminal...

...records. Does the gov deliberately recruit from the criminal underclass? Sure it does. Boy, does it ever.

[geek tragedy]

93. Criminal underclass?

Wow, I don't hear that phrase from progressives too often.

[JSJ]

95. i dunno- is there a better term for a recruitment pool that delivers...

...criminals at the rate of 30% of the military's fighting force?

[saigon68]

96. Judges around here will vacate a sentence

If the young man signs up They think it will "straighten him out".

My experience is if you give someone who is troubled ,an M-16 and a batch of targets, Chaos ensues.

Especially if the Lads NCO is Sgt Graner of Abu Ghraib fame.

[JSJ]

97. absolutely, saigon, absolutely- called morals waivers...

...when the military gets them and they're handed out like candy to thugs and reprobates.

*edited for expansion

[NNN0LHI]

85. Doesn't this asshole realize the danger he is putting his family in?

Why does he give his name? Shit for brains, I tell you.

Don

[One_Life_To_Give]

110. Good Point

I thought we had a "News Blackout" on giving the names, family locations, of our Snipers going back to atleast Nam. when many of our snipers had bountys on their heads.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

86. It won't bother him until the dreams begin. You know, the dreams....

...you have when you're wide awake and you're powerless to stop them.

He's stil a young man. He'll learn.

[saigon68]

89. He'll get PTSD

DREAMS OF SMALL ANIMALS BITING AND TEARING AT HIS FLESH, THE GHOSTS OF THE CHILDREN HE KILLED HAUNTING HIM. THE MOAN OF THE WIND.

The VA turning him down for benefits after he is living on the streets as an incurable alcoholic with few teeth, except the ones with painful abscesses

[Tripmann]

111. I can't believe....

...the attitudes of some of the posters in this thread. Look at what this sniper has stated...

'It was night and low visibility,' Wilks said. 'But I saw a guy with an AK-47 lit up by the porch light in a doorway about 400 metres away. I watched him through the sights. He looked like just another Iraqi. I hit him low in the stomach and dropped him.' ..

Looked like just another Iraqi? Typical of the shoot first,ask questions later attitude that has brought the US military into disrepute during this illegal war. That sniper is part of an invasion force and is a murderer,plain and simple. Hiding behind a uniform is no different than hiding behind the tissue of lies that has led to the slaughter of so many innocents.

Disgusting,and reminds me of the part in F9/11 where the soldiers are talking about what music they listen to while killing, as if they were on a turkey shoot or something.

Scum

Tripmann

[Zerex71]

116. That's okay...

Some Iraqi feels the same way about him. He'll get his, no doubt.

Mike

[WinterStorm]

117. 5 years from now were going to hear about him shooting up a packed McD's

Who wants to bet me $5.00 dollars?