Survey finds fault with 'don't ask, don't tell' for troops at war

[Khephra]

NEW HAVEN, Conn. -- Brian Hughes served four years with an Army Ranger unit, including assignments in Afghanistan and Iraq, while keeping a potentially career-ending secret.

He is gay.

Hughes, who left the military last month and is enrolled at Yale University, is one of 30 homosexual servicemen and servicewomen interviewed for a survey that criticized the way the U.S. military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy is working in Iraq and Afghanistan _ the first war since the policy was enacted 11 years ago.

The policy is seen as a meaningless and unenforceable, preventing gays and lesbians from bonding with their peers, according to the survey by the Center for the Study of Sexual Minorities in the Military at the University of California in Santa Barbara.

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/ny-bc-ct--dontask-donttel0915sep15,0,786675.story?coll=ny-ap-regional-wire

[bluestateguy]

1. Kerry will repeal the ban on gays in the military if he wins

And any homophobe in the military who doesn't like it can submit his resignation.

[polmaven]

7. What do you suppose will happen

if Bush is reappointed and brings back the draft? Will anyone who claims to be gay/lesbian be automatically disqualified? I can see it now. During the draft physical, the doctors asks if there is any known reason why he/she would be unable to serve in the military.....!

[bluestateguy]

13. Well

If * brings back the draft they will keep the gay ban on paper, but make people publicly embarass themselves if they claim to be gay. That is, they'll demand that gays seeking exemptions before the draft board "prove" they are gay, maybe even forcing them to get testimony from other men they have had romantic or sexual relationships with. That itself could be a major deterrent to people getting out of the draft for homosexuality. In conservative parts of the country, gay men will not want to face the social consequences of outing themselves. Others who make unpersuasive claims of being gay will simply be packed up and shipped out to boot camp. Then they will be dishonorably discharged once the military no longer has any use for them.

[JSJ]

2. the much more serious secret the troops (or the pols) aren't telling...

...is that 30% of them have pre-service criminal backgrounds. (LA Times, July 14th, 2004).

[delete_bush]

3. Is it too late for Rush

to join up? Just in case those male bonding rumors about him are true.

With his millions, I'm sure he could have that butt thing that kept him out of the Nam taken care of. No commies left to kill, but lots of terra-ists.

And as for that illusive love that has evaded him all his life....?

[ps1074]

4. The whole debate can be easily put to rest

There is no way all of the 1022 dead servicemen and women in Iraq are straight. If it is true that every 10th or 11th human being is gay, then we should expect at least 50 dead gay GIs.

All Kerry needs to do when he wins in November is identify several of them (ask the family first if he can out them) and ask the gay haters "Tell these people they shouldn't be in the military."

Touch down. Game over.

[malachibk]

5. You're assuming that gays sign up proportionally to their % in the pop.

That's a BIG assumption. It's quite possible that all the casualties are straight.

[arwalden]

6. Are You Suggesting That Queer Americans Are Less Patriotic...

... or LESS interested a rewarding military career, or LESS inclined to serve their country, or LESS likely to possess the skills required for combat, or not masculine enough, or ... what? I don't know.

I don't see any "BIG assumption" in ps1074's message (above)... but I do read a message that sounds awfully presumptuous. That's a very bigoted and ill-informed thing to say.

-- Allen

[One_Life_To_Give]

10. Truth is probably in the middle.

On the one hand how many want to join a organization that so clearly says "Your Kind" (GLBT) arn't welcome here?

And on the other may be the best way for a GLBT person to get out of Freeperville.

We will likely never know the real numbers. At least not fr some time yet, as to how many serve in silence.

[AtTheEndOfTheDay]

8. Or perhaps all the casualties are gay

[FreeState]

9. Nope more I would guess

Living in San Diego and knowing many many gay people in the service - having dated one of them - I would say Gay men and women are more likely to sign up.

Here is why:

They get out of the bad situation they are in at home. They can escape. THey get money for school- with out having to rely on homophobic parents etc. In addition GLBT persons love their country just as much as hetro americans.

[JoFerret]

15. That's a good point

It's a way out. Plus - a few may be trying to over-compensate and prove something. Those with the internalised homophobia.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

11. I'd venture to guess that proportionally gays make up MORE than

the straight population....per capita..this is based on my experiences ON BASES entertaining.

[struggle4progress]

12. It seems very unlikely that all casualties could be straight. First ...

.. the military must typically contain a good number of gays: nearly 10000 have been discharged since 1998 under "don't ask, don't tell." Second, with the Iraq war in full swing, "don't ask, don't tell" discharges have dropped sharply (Suggested poll question: "Are you such a homophobe that you would you rather be shot by an insurgent than trust a gay soldier to watch your back?")


SANTA BARBARA, CA, June 21, 2004 -- In the wake of last week's Senate vote authorizing the Army to add 20,000 new soldiers, newly-available data provide fresh details about many of the 9,682 service members discharged for homosexuality under the Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy. <snip>
http://www.gaymilitary.ucsb.edu/PressCenter/press_rel_2004_0621.htm


Study: Gay military discharges plummet
Advocates cite Iraq conflict, not change in policy for easing of 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell'
By Ethan Jacobs
Published: Thursday, April 1, 2004

<snip> The trend of fewer discharges is most likely not the result of a formal or informal policy shift in the Pentagon. Sharra Greer, SLDN's director of law and policy, said in prior conflicts, such as the Persian Gulf War in the early '90s, the military instituted stop-loss orders that suspended discharges under "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" and under the gay ban that existed prior to that policy. Branches of the service have instituted stop-loss orders during the current conflicts, but those orders do not apply to "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" proceedings. <snip>

"It is a command level, ship level, unit level sort of decision," said Greer. "... If your command needs you to go into combat, they keep you." <snip>

http://www.baywindows.com/news/2004/04/01/NationalNews/Study.Gay.Military.Discharges.Plummet-647622.shtml

[JoFerret]

14. Possible but VERY unlikely

Given the homophobia I would guess that the percentage of gay men in the miliatry is lower than in the general population. However - probably a higher than average number of the women are gay.