'Che' a longtime national hero

[seemslikeadream]

Anita Snow
Associated Press Writer
Sept. 24, 2004 12:00 AM


HAVANA - The luminous gaze of revolutionary icon Ernesto "Che" Guevara is almost a constant presence in communist Cuba, his dark eyes staring out from beneath a black beret on office walls and pro-government billboards.

....

"It will be very interesting for Americans," said Camilo Guevara, the 42-year-old son of the late revolutionary and a project director at Havana's Che Guevara Studies Center.

The film is based on the personal writings of Guevara and fellow Argentine Alberto Granado about their travels across Latin America on a Norton motorbike in 1952.

"The film appears to be very faithful to the documents, respectful to the subjects and esthetically beautiful," the younger Guevara said this week. "I liked it very much."

Producer Robert Redford traveled to Cuba in January to privately screen the film for Guevara's widow, Aleida March, and other close relatives.
more
http://www.azcentral.com/ent/movies/articles/0924che24.html

[David Zephyr]

1. The Greatest and Most Beloved Political Figure in the 20th Century.

Hands down.

[Mika]

3. You could not walk in Miami w/a Che shirt w/o getting assaulted

You wouldn't make it for 10 minutes.

Cops would not help you.

I'm not kidding.

[David Zephyr]

4. And Then There's the Rest of the World.

Says a lot about Miami, doesn't it?

[PermanentRevolution]

91. That's odd...

I wear my Che shirt all around Miami and I've never had any problems. There's not anywhere near the negative association that Castro has.

[Raiden]

172. In my very humble opinion

Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi was the greatest and most beloved political figure in the 20th Century, but that's just me...

[Judi Lynn]

173. We've seen a lot of people claiming deep reverence and respect

for both Martin Luther King and Mahatma Gandhi, etc. We also remember when many of the same people or their parents used to call Martin Luther King, Jr., "Martin Luther Nigger," and tell stupid, obnoxious jokes about him.

There are various right-wing Cuban "exile" terrorists in Miami who also have recently started claiming a deep spiritual kinship with Mahatma Gandhi. Damned if I can explain this.

Right-wing redneck attitudes seem to come from environments in which the person was a big fish in a very tiny pond. A lot of the original wave of Cuban right-wingnut "exiles" fall into this category. They felt lost arriving in a huge country where no one had to do their bidding.

Forty + years later, these terrorists are realizing no one outside their lunatic fringe gives a hang what they think, so they've attempted to get attention by claiming awareness of the great outer world which includes "furriners." Makes them seem so evolved, don't you know! Both Jose Basulto and Ramon Saul Sanchez come to mind quickly as newly converted devotees of the thoughts expressed by Gandhi.

People who know rightwingers well enough can sense them miles away. Their very language betrays them. They are not as safely concealed as they would imagine.

You're damned straight to admire Mahatma Gandhi. Let me be the first to commend you.

'If my faith burns bright, as I hope it will even if I stand alone, I shall be alive in the grave, and what is more, speaking from it.'
Mahatma Gandhi

[catzies]

2. I can't wait to see that movie and I'm going to read the book.

Looking forward to both.

[Minstrel Boy]

5. A GREAT movie about Che is "The Bolivian Diary"

A documentary recounting, often using Che's own words, his ill-fated campaign in Bolivia.



What a man.

Recognize this piece of shit on his right, who's soon to participate in his murder?



He's wearing a Bolivian uniform, but he's not Bolivian. He's CIA. He's Felix Rodriguez (aka "Max Gomez" from Ollie North's Iran/Contra drugs and guns operation), longtime friend of Poppy and an important goon of the Octopus.

He kept Che's watch as a trophy of his kill.

From Webster Tarpley's interview with Celerino Castillo, former DEA special agent and author of Powderburns:

TARPLEY: Now, you've mentioned Felix Rodriguez, Max Gomez... Certainly, Felix Rodriguez has been with George Bush for a very, very long time, and what you can see in that book is, he's got a signed photograph from George Bush telling him what a great patriot he is. Would you agree with that judgement on Felix Rodriguez/Max Gomez?

CASTILLO: No, sir. If you go back to the Vietnam War, we have intelligence where the CIA and those individuals were heavily involved in trafficking heroin into the U.S. in bodybags and so forth.

So, Felix Rodriguez was documented, in our DEA files, as a trafficker. He was a retired CIA agent, and they brought all these people who were heavily involved. If you go back, most of these Bay of Pigs operatives were all documented traffickers, who all served time for narcotics trafficking, for gun-running. They were all criminals; yet, they were being hired by the Oliver North Contra operation to run the illegal narcotics trafficking out of Ilopango.


Could a piece of shit like that really kill Che? Not fucking likely.

[David Zephyr]

6. Well, Minstrel Boy and David Zephyr Actually Agree on Something At Last.

I have this film. It's terrific.

I have a very large private library/collection on Che.

Now, if I can get you see my point about the British artifice of Iraq without you insinuating I'm a PNAC'er, we would have come a long way. ;-)

Happy to see you have high regards for Che, too. Indeed, "what a man."

[Minstrel Boy]

7. Well, in that case,

you're definitely not a closet PNAC'er.


I suppose. ;)

[Mika]

8. Did you know that Felix Rodriguez is a Fla Bush elector

A murderer and terrorist as a Bush (s)elector. Go figure. :puke:

I posted a thread on this about 6-8 months ago.

[Minstrel Boy]

10. No, I didn't know that.

Sorry I missed your thread.

It doesn't surprise me. But what a freakin' world... :puke:

[seemslikeadream]

13. MB that "Che" beret

[seemslikeadream]

14. Tamara Bunke Bider

Carlos Ernesto Chaviano Hernández

CIENFUEGOS.— 40 years ago Tamara Bunke Bider traveled through the streets of the city of Cienfuegos. The objective of its stay in the Southern Pearl for nothing had to see with a trip of distraction despite it a lot that it to have desired. Special circumstances brought it to here, therefore the intentions of the one that then was extraordinary guerrilla were impregnated of that characteristic secret of the large missions.

Several decades later, still touched by the memory of the Argentine-German youth, they met in the afamado Hotel Jagua, friends and companions of fight.

They could not lack al encounter Ulysses Road Lescaille and José Gómez Abbot, important witnesses of the preparation of Tamara with a view to future and risky plans.
more
http://www.jrebelde.cubaweb.cu/2004/enero-marzo/mar-3/tania.html

[Judi Lynn]

107. Oh, NOOOO, Mika! Jeez, I missed seeing your thread on this, also.

Sure glad I caught your comment this time.

Well, that just about rips it, doesn't it? Felix Rodriguez, a Florida elector.

Well, this WOULD happen in a state in which the Miami City Commissioners voted to create a special Dr. Orlando Bosch Day, to commemorate the Cuban "exile" terrorist/murderer/bomber, Orlando Bosch.

Miami would be a much better town without thse particular people sucking up all the air there.

[Judi Lynn]

9. Here the P.O.S. is sitting with George H. W. Bush at home.

George and Felix, chillin' at the VP office.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The date was December 23, 1988. Bush penned a brief, congenial Christmas note to a controversial figure, former CIA operative Felix Rodriguez. "Good luck," said part of Bush's message. "May 1989 by calmer than 1988."

It had indeed been a tumultuous year, for both Bush and Rodriguez. During 1988 many of the facts about the Iran-Contra scandal had come to light, even as Bush managed an electoral victory for the office of President of the United States. Both men had been mired in allegations that they participated in illegal operations run by the CIA and National Security Council aide Oliver North.

Rodriguez, like Bush, had deep connections in the intelligence community. A Cuban exile who participated in several CIA anti-Castro projects, Rodriguez was a self-proclaimed "Shadow Warrior" (the title of his autobiography). When the CIA's secret war against Cuba died down, Rodriguez would go on to serve in U.S. paramilitary operations in Vietnam and elsewhere. His most famous CIA assignment came in 1967, when he witnessed the capture and execution of Che Guevara, the Argentine Communist who helped lead the Cuban revolution.

During the early 1980s, Rodriguez was stationed in El Salvador, where he played an instrumental role in a supply network set up by Reagan administration officials to aid the Nicaraguan contras, a rebel force backed by the CIA. A congressional investigation led by Senator John Kerry turned up evidence that some contra groups who used this network were also transporting significant quantities of cocaine.

Neither Bush nor Rodriguez was directly implicated in the contra cocaine trade. However, both men were intimately involved with the policies that made such scandalous activity possible. Bush may or may not want to include his letter to Rodriguez in the official Bush correspondence collection. But if that collection is to include the truly revealing letters from Bush's career, this one should be a prime candidate.
(snip/...)

http://www.parascope.com/ds/papertrail/papertrail0498.htm#bush

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

_Bush's cheery Christmas note to _{Felix Rodgriguez:}

[Mika]

11. F-ing GREAT post, JudiLyn

:hi:

:party:

:dem:

:kick:


I love the xmas note. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[JimmyJazz]

113. excellen post - thanks for the info n/t

[JimmyJazz]

112. my post was a dupe so here's this:

[Minstrel Boy]

12. "After the Revolution"

Thinking about Che makes me think about how different the world could be, and that made me think of this song.

After the Revolution by David Rovics
Free mp3 available on this page

It was a time I'll always remember
Because I could never forget
How reality fell down around us
Like some Western movie set
And once the dust all settled
The sun shone so bright
And a great calm took over us
Like it was all gonna be alright
That's how it felt to be alive
After the revolution

From Groton to Tacoma
On many a factory floor
The workers talked of solidarity
And refused to build weapons of war
No more will we make missiles
We're gonna do something different
And for the first time
Their children were proud of their parents
And somewhere in Gaza a little boy smiled and cried
After the revolution

Prison doors swung open
And mothers hugged their sons
The Liberty Bell was ringing
When the cops put down their guns
A million innocent people
Lit up in the springtime air
And Mumia and Leonard and Sarah Jane Olson
Took a walk in Tompkins Square
And they talked about what they'd do now
After the revolution

The debts were all forgiven
In all the neo-colonies
And the soldiers left their bases
Went back to their families
And a non-aggression treaty
Was signed with every sovereign state
And all the terrorist groups disbanded
With no empire left to hate
And they all started planting olive trees
After the revolution

George Bush and Henry Kissinger
Were sent off to the World Court
Their plans for global domination
Were pre-emptively cut short
Their weapons of mass destruction
Were inspected and destroyed
The battleships were dismantled
Never again to be deployed
And the world breathed a sigh of relief
After the revolution

Solar panels were on the rooftops
Trains upon the tracks
Organic food was in the markets
No GMO's upon the racks
And all the billionaires
Had to learn how to share
And Bill Gates was told to quit his whining
When he said it wasn't fair
And his mansion became a collective farm
After the revolution

And all the political poets
Couldn't think of what to say
So they all decided
To live life for today
I spent a few years catching up
With all my friends and lovers
Sleeping til eleven
Home beneath the covers
And I learned how to play the banjo
After the revolution

[H2O Man]

15. Two good books

"Che Guevara: A Revolutionary Life" by Jon Lee Anderson, 1997, and "Companero:The Life and Death of Che Guevara" by Jorge Castaneda, also 1997. I saw a new book on Irish history with a piece on Che, as his father was a Lynch; this, as all our Irish DUers should know, puts Ernesto smack-dab in the Tribes of Galloways, which certainly isamong the most honorable of warriors in human history.

[0007]

109. "Companero" was indeed a very good account of Che's life.

Guevara Also Known as Che" by Paco Ignacio Taibo is another worth while read.

The film "Che" with Omar Sharif & Jack Palance, I've yet to see, because I can't find it. I may have to buy it!

[Matilda]

16. Kick - for Che, and for Redford.

n/t

[FirstDoNoHarm]

17. How many innocents did che kill?

Or was he so very careful that the only people he killed were guilty? How good was che exactly?

[Kathy in Cambridge]

18. Hmmm

:boring:

transparent as hell...

[FirstDoNoHarm]

20. I say it right now - I don't like che or ANY guerrilla killer

Can you answer the question? Did che kill innocents? Yes or no?

[FlemingsGhost]

25. "Sons of Liberty" were guerillas.

"Terrorists," in fact, according to today's standard.

Care to revisit your position?

(edited for grammar)

[Swamp Rat]

161. So, you don't like us here in New Orleans?

We, along with Andrew Jackson, Jean Lafitte, Choctaw Indians, free men of color defeated the British using guerrilla warfare tactics. We were attacked by invaders who were professional soldiers with superior firepower. Do you dislike us because we defended ourselves with this new battlefield tactic?

[study_war_no_more]

162. how about guerrilla killer killers?

as far as i know no. but the CIA did kill him.

[Misunderestimator]

21. LOL.... You are some funny person.

:eyes:

[FirstDoNoHarm]

24. There is NOTHING funny about killing people

Why do YOU support the killing that che performed? :eyes:

[Misunderestimator]

27. Why are you here?

[FirstDoNoHarm]

28. I'm not here to support murderers like che

I'm here to support decent Democratic people like Kerry and Edwards. Why are you supporting extremists like che here and giving decent Democrats a bad name with that support?

[Misunderestimator]

37. LMAO....

Um... You're putting words in my mouth. My opinion of you has been formed by reading your recent posts on more than just this thread. ;)

[study_war_no_more]

163. che was not a murderer

John kerry also fought in a war and killed so by your standard he is also a murderer? Go see the movie or read the books you obviously dont know any thing about che and it is hard to discuss this with you>

[Liberal Dude]

102. Oh my God! A differing opinion! Try not to pee yourself!

Democrats are allowed to have different opinions. Just because someone doesn't worship some communist icon doesn't make them a bad person.

Why is DU so threatened by a range of opinions being voiced?

[FlemingsGhost]

105. It is the stench of distruption we abhor

Sometimes the putrid odor is too much to ignore. Some here are simply not interested in debate, just childish chicanery ... all at the expense of other's time and patience.

If one is here with motives other than to contribute in a civil, worthwhile manner, they are spotted a mile away. In fact, it is too damned easy. To engage them is mildly amusing for a while, but in the end, it's not much of a challenge to outwit them. Soon or later, they don't need anyone else but themselves to make them look foolish.

The nose always knows ... sniff, sniff.

(on edit: typo)

[Misunderestimator]

111. Why thank you DemsUnite. Couldn't have said it better myself.

Like arguing with a three-year-old.

[Piperay]

156. Check out the freak republic

and then you will see which side is repressive.

[Swamp Rat]

160. Don't vote for Bush! He's an alien lizard!

"Why is DU so threatened by a range of opinions being voiced?" - you have 3 posts and yet you judge 50,000 members?

[FlemingsGhost]

22. Good question. Great topic to research, in fact.

Bust the myth, DoNoHarm. Take your time, and show us what you got.

(Google is a nice place to start.)

What are you waiting for? Scoot ...

[FirstDoNoHarm]

26. You won't like the answer

I suspect that many here that are praising che know quite well what his killing record is. But if you want his morbid killing record posted here I'll post the links to his murderous ways.

[FlemingsGhost]

29. By all means ... please.

Thanks, in advance, for the legwork you are about to do to bolster your position.

[FirstDoNoHarm]

32. It's not MY position

The murderous way of che are quite well known by his victims. Your support of his killing is quite telling.

[FlemingsGhost]

33. Where are the links?

Thanks.

[FirstDoNoHarm]

35. Here are the links...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=%22Che++Guevara%22+%2Binnocent+%2Bmurderer&btnG=Search

Enjoy seeing the facts about the murderer che.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

40. all from right-wing Cuban sources

I guess we can put a fork in you, 'cause you're pretty much done.

[FlemingsGhost]

43. So what have we learned here?

"FirstDoNoHarm" can type "Che + murderer" into a search engine.

Bravo!

(Can I rebut by typing "Che + hero?")

LOL ... are you even trying?

[Kathy in Cambridge]

34. Your lack of knowledge and historical perspective is quite telling

you can post those links anytime...

[FirstDoNoHarm]

46. Your turning a blind eye to the che murders is very telling

Links have been posted.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

31. And remember, research from right-wing sources is not credible

just saving you some effort here...

[FirstDoNoHarm]

36. No shit

Do you think I am that stupid?

[Kathy in Cambridge]

38. Do you really want me to answer that question?

:eyes:

[FirstDoNoHarm]

42. I could not care less

Anyone that praises a murderer like che has problems beyond my help as a Doctor.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

47. Where have I praised Che on this thread? I haven't.

But you obviously don't understand nuance, and you seemed crippled by the typical black and white thinking of the Right.

[FlemingsGhost]

52. What field?

Psychology, I'll assume. Well then ... Let's talk shop.

(I think the hole is getting deeper, FDNH.)

on edit: typo

[FirstDoNoHarm]

53. Medical

Surgery to be exact.

[FlemingsGhost]

58. I'm curious. Why would a surgeon say such a thing?

Of course you wouldn't be able to help the poster. You insinuated a potential psychological affliction. Why mention it at all?

Just asking.

[HuckleB]

68. What's your focus?

Where'dya do your residency?

[FirstDoNoHarm]

72. Do I know you?

The answers to your questions are way too revealing for a blog board. Ask me in private if you have a need to know.

[HuckleB]

75. Huh?

Are you kidding? What's your bloody specialty? Where'dya do your residency? That's not revealing crap. Or don't you remember the answers?

[HuckleB]

97. Hey, I bet you could use a little "Che-iloplasty."

What with all the "Che-ilophagia" you've been doing at DU today.

:)

[bicentennial_baby]

117. Did you know Che was also a doctor?

I bet not.

[Minstrel Boy]

41. Well...

the google'd links you posted above does include Newsmax.

But then, you didn't really read the links, did you?

[Kathy in Cambridge]

49. Our visitor is certainly subtle

:eyes:

[FirstDoNoHarm]

73. I prefer honest

Honesty is always best.

[FlemingsGhost]

77. Your not a surgeon, are you?

Be honest.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

101. well the info you provided on your google page would indicate you are

And the fact that you post in one liners without providing a shred of evidence to back up your positions isn't the kind of IQ demonstration I would expect from a rocket scientist...so...yeah

[TahitiNut]

155. Yes.

:shrug:

[Grown2Hate]

19. I hate to expose myself for the political newbie that I am...

but who IS Che Guevara? I'd really like to learn his story. I recognize the picture of him (huge RATM fan), but I really know NOTHING about him. Any help is appreciated (I apologize if this is a repeat post, as the first time I tried to post it my internet connection failed, so I really don't know if it made it through).

[FirstDoNoHarm]

23. He was a killer first and a left leaning second

His politics were OK but he killed too many innocent people in his heyday. Killing people for politics is ALWAYS WRONG!

[Minstrel Boy]

30. "Shoot coward, you are only killing one man"

Go ahead, take your best shot. Che's seen worse.

[FirstDoNoHarm]

39. Worship your killers and I'll praise real Democrats like JFK

che is dead and it didn't happen soon enough to save thousands of innocent people. How you can support a murderer like him I can't understand.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

44. What does Che have to do with the Democratic Party?

That you would draw that comparison is a pretty good indication that you get your 'knowledge' from Fox News and Rush Limbaugh.

[bobthedrummer]

50. The School of the Americas trained death squads have killed far more.

Are you a Batista lover by any chance?

[Kathy in Cambridge]

51. Just a fascist-lover I believe

:eyes:

[FirstDoNoHarm]

che was a facist

People that kill innocents deserve nothing but scorn.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

56. He was not a fascist

you obviously didn't read your own links.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

62. FirstDoNoHarm, I'm off to bed. Have a pizza on me!

[Minstrel Boy]

63. Can you share one incident of Che killing non-combatants?

That is who you mean by "innocents," right, and not Batista's soldiers?

[JimmyJazz]

116. Actually, I believe the first man Che killed was

not technically a combatant, but someone on his side who he considered to be a deserter. The callousness with which he described the killing in his diary is actually quite chilling.

That information comes from Che: A Revolutionary Life by Jon Anderson (as opposed to a google search)

[Minstrel Boy]

119. I don't consider a deserter to be an innocent.

And I don't think most armies, revolutionary and otherwise, would.

on edit: nor, in a meaningful sense of the term, a non-combatant.

[JimmyJazz]

124. where did I say innocent? I said he wasn't

a combatant. In other words, he didn't kill the guy during a battle. That's all. I don't believe he was quite the hero some are making him out to be, but I haven't formed an opinion yet. I think he was a passionate person, but I think he could be cold and cruel.

He was deeply motivated by what he saw happen in Chile (with the U.S. owning the copper mines) and in Guatamala (the CIA led coup). He hated the imperialistic tendencies of the U.S. Therefore, I suppose, good or bad, he's someone the US created.

[HuckleB]

64. Do you know what a fascist is?

It doesn't appear so.

[FlemingsGhost]

65. They don't teach those things in medical school.

:eyes:

[HuckleB]

66. ?

[FlemingsGhost]

69. See post #42

There is a "tell" in that post.

It is highly unlikely he/she is a surgeon.

[HuckleB]

71. Got it.

And, yeah, it would be quite shocking to find out if he or she had even spent a day in an undergrad A&P course, much less med school.

[FlemingsGhost]

74. Since FDNH has probably run off I'll tell you why ...

I'm so sure he/she is full of shit:

Surgeons never simply refer to themselves as "doctor." It is beneath them. They are a "surgeon." Period.

edited for grammar

[HuckleB]

76. Yes.

Nor would he or she have referred to his or her "field" as "medical."

[Mika]

78. What about DDS?

I'm a doctor of dental surgery. :hi:


My friends call me 'doc', which I do hate, but no one (including me) refers to me as a surgeon (except at professional study groups and seminars). I'm "a dentist".

Dr Mika :hi:

[FlemingsGhost]

79. Dentists aren't even real doctors.

I'm kidding.

:evilgrin:

Actually, dentists are by and large a fun lot. The informality does not surprise me. There is no prevailing "God complex" in dentistry.

[HuckleB]

80. Another toothpuller.

Just what this world needs.

;)

:hi:

Hmm. I bet you know where the hyoid bone is.

I suspect our surgeon friend would have to search high and low to find it.

[Mika]

86. It hurts me as much as it hurts you

One of the most dreaded jobs in dentistry.. extracting impacted and site infected molars. Ugh.

I did four at one sitting on one victim.. er.. patient a couple of months ago, it took every bit of my will power and strength to finish up. Believe me, if I feel as sore as I do afterwards, I really sympathize with my patient.

There is not enough money for that to be "worth it" (unless one is an insensitive butcher).

[HuckleB]

88. Now where have I heard that before?

;)

I just hope your kind when it comes to pain relief.

[seemslikeadream]

81. Could you take a look at this?

I need a second opinion

[Mika]

90. How old is that horse?

}(

Just kidding.



I really can't do a diagnosis online, or w/o actually seeing you. Patient privacy laws and all.. Sorry. :(

[foo_bar]

95. malocclusion from degenerative arrow-shaped periodontitis

edited for topical relevance: Che's an icon, Fidel's an iconoclast. You don't put Castro on T-shirts, you just don't.

[Mika]

98. There's no statues of Mr Castro or buldings named after him in Cuba

Not one.

Been there, seen none.

[0007]

137. Could be a bum doctor

[FirstDoNoHarm]

54. I don't support anyone that kills innocents

Please don't ask me ignorant questions.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

55. The faux indignation is really charming

:eyes:

[Minstrel Boy]

61. I'm wondering, is this a universal doctrine of yours,

or is it limited only to leftist guerrillas?

What are your thoughts on that killer of innocents, Dwight Eisenhower?

[cprise]

59. Some prefer killers to have that institutional, impersonal touch

I guess Che is not for them.

[mrbill]

110. jfk thought fidel and che were cool................

18 November 1963:

Kennedy sends an unofficial emissary, friend and journalist Jean Daniel- who’s interviewing Castro for France’s L’Express magazine- to carry this message to Castro: “I accept responsibility for the ill treatment of Cuba by the US, and understand that the economic colonization, humiliation, and exploitation visited upon Cuba were at least in part due to policies of the US during the Batista regime…I will go even further: to some extent it is as though Batista was the incarnation of a number of sins on the part of the United States. Now we shall have to pay for those sins. I am in agreement with those first Cuban revolutionaries. That is perfectly clear.” JFK adds, “The US can co-exist with a nation in the hemisphere that espouses a different economic system, the Monroe Doctrine notwithstanding.”

http://www.winterboy.com/dejavu9.html

Wasn't Che a doctor? Yep, Che's dead, the CIA killed him, was that in Bolivia? Wonder if Poppy Bush was lurking anywhere nearby?

[Minstrel Boy]

114. Great post, mrbill

thanks!

[Grown2Hate]

45. Can some one give me a more clear answer than that?

Perhaps a book I can read to learn about him... I don't know the FIRST THING about him, and I'd like to learn.

[Minstrel Boy]

48. Here's not a bad little summary,

with links to further reading:

http://www.popsubculture.com/pop/bio_project/ernesto_che_guevara.html

[samtob]

153. Encyclopedia link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che_Guevara

The most neutral link I could find.

[JohnLocke]

70. Read this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che_Guevara

[Mika]

57. DUers, be careful. Skinner doesn't like Cuba threads like these

"And the reason Cuba threads usually end up locked, is because they are usually pointless flaming." -Skinner

----

"I will admit to a certain bias against threads which argue that Cuba is a bastion of freedom and democracy."
-Skinner ADMIN (1000+ posts) Sun Jan-11-04 01:05 PM

[Pallas180]

158. Hmm, that raises the question of those of us who pay to post

here vs. Skinner's likes and dislikes.

[Mika]

167. After having many of my threads "disappeared"..

.. and locked you know why I don't contribute money. Some DUers challenged Skinner to show us some threads that claim the Cuba is a "bastion" of democracy as he accused - he has nothing to show to back up the claim.

Oh, well. :shrug:

[HuckleB]

60. Motorcycle Diaries is a wonderful read.

And I've got fair hopes for the film.

It's too bad that the book wasn't available earlier than it was, as it's a great place to start reading Che's writings as one studies that era in Cuban and South American history.

[HuckleB]

67. Even our man in Havana was charmed by Ché

http://www.guardian.co.uk/cuba/story/0,11983,1286934,00.html

[Judi Lynn]

170. Thanks for the Guardian article! Missed it the first time.

IT is amusing to read the British chargé d'affaires referred to his magnetic personality as being "Irish" in nature!

So as someone here has mentioned somewhere else at D.U., and it was emphasized in your article, we are close to the anniversary of his murder: October 9, 1967.

Interesting to remember how close it is to the other horrendous violence done against Cubans, when Cuban "exiles" Orlando Bosch, Luis Posada Carriles, helped by others, including Ricardo "Monkey" Morales arranged to explode the world's first airliner bombed in flight, bearing the young Cuban fencing team, as well as six students from Guyana. That was October 6, 1976, nine years later. 73 people killed.

Orlando Bosch, Luis Posada Carriles were in prison not so long in Venezuela for this, then Posada was helped to "escape," and Bosch was let out really early.

Concerning the other murder, Felix Rodriguez is "pals" with _{George H. W. Bush} who also gave an administrative pardon to Orlando Bosch to allow him to come back into the country, after the acting Attorney General Joe D. Whitley acted to refuse him entry here.
See: http://cuban-exile.com/doc_051-075/doc0054.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Have you seen this? It's the Declassified look at personal notes taken by Richard Goodwin concerning his secret meeting with Che Guevara, when he was asked to meet him by John F. Kennedy:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/bayofpigs/19610822.pdf
(Give it time to load. PDF)

These notes were part of a large group of documents released not too long ago as part of an exchange of information between Cuba and representatives from the U.S., including, I think, John McNamarra, can be found here:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB103/index.htm

[brentspeak]

82. I thought this was the DEMOCRATic Underground

not the COMMUNIST GUERRILLA Underground.

A lot of these fawning posts about Che Guevera make me sick.

[FlemingsGhost]

83. See a doctor.

"FirstDoNoHarm" might be on call ...

:eyes:

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FlemingsGhost]

93. I was kidding. In fact, I thought you were, too.

You're not?

[seemslikeadream]

84. I don't see these fawning posts

you're talking about.

[HuckleB]

87. Good point.

Although, you know, he was quite handsome when he shaved.

;)

[seemslikeadream]

94. Be still my heart

move over Tania

[HuckleB]

85. So you won't see the movie then?

[Mika]

92. Fawning posts?

Links please

Or cast your line elsewhere.

[muriel_volestrangler]

108. I can see some fawning here

The Greatest and Most Beloved Political Figure in the 20th Century

What a man

Kick - for Che, and for Redford

Motorcycle Diaries is a wonderful read

[Minstrel Boy]

122. spooky....

[Judi Lynn]

129. This is so sad.

It's like housecleaning. It never really is permanently finished!

Looks like it's deja all over again.

[Judi Lynn]

96. It really takes attention away from the truly IMPORTANT fawning

for Chrissakes. What must they be thinking? Thank goodness we've got you to get them back in line.

Now here's a MIGHTY man!



Just yukking it up with the other aces! Ooooh, what a man!



Here's lookin' at you, kid! Wow! Whatta guy!

[HuckleB]

99. Death of a legend

http://www.guardian.co.uk/cuba/story/0,11983,1285268,00.html

[Minstrel Boy]

100. interesting new piece here on Felix Rodriguez,

(see posts 5 and 8 for more on how Rodriguez figures in Che's - and the Bush family's - stories).

John Kerry and Felix Rodriguez
Sept 23

The life of Felix I. Rodriguez provides a tour through the dark heart of America. From the Bay of Pigs fiasco to Vietnam to the El Salvador death squads to the Iran-contra scandal, the Cuban exile and self-described "CIA hero" was there. His most famous assassination mission came in 1967, when he led the Bolivian army group that captured and summarily executed leftist revolutionary Ernesto "Che" Guevara. He's worked closely with right-wing terrorists, and some of his associates were involved in the Watergate break-in. Given his background, it's not surprising his name has surfaced in numerous JFK conspiracy theories as well.

Now retired in North Miami-Dade near Barry University, Rodriguez, who says his CIA career was always fueled by a hope to unseat Fidel Castro, also has special relationships with both of this year's presidential candidates. George W. Bush sends him a White House Christmas card each year. The president's father counts Rodriguez as an old friend; Bush Sr. worked with him during the mid-Eighties, when Rodriguez ran the operation to arm the Nicaraguan contras for the Reagan administration.

Democratic nominee John Kerry, though, isn't so cozy with Rodriguez. In 1986 the then-rookie senator formed a committee to investigate Iran-contra. The so-called Kerry Committee alleged that Rodriguez had helped steer $10 million from the notorious Medellín cocaine cartel to the contras. The committee concluded that trafficking was rampant in the rebels' effort.

...

While Bush Sr. avoided the truth about Iran-contra, Castillo has worked for years to expose it and, in so doing, has researched Rodriguez's life -- from Cuba to Vietnam to El Salvador. He's come to the conclusion that the Cuban exile is no hero. "He's always been a terrorist, just like Osama bin Laden and all the terrorists we've made in the past," he says.
http://www.cubadebate.cu/index.php?tpl=especiales-show¬iciaid=3377¬iciafecha=2004-09-23

[Judi Lynn]

106. Had no idea John Kerry has a history with this Cuban "exile" clown!

This is one fascinating article. Felix Rodriguez (AKA "Max Gomez") is actually actively trying to harm Kerry's campaign as we post at D.U.!

I've heard a bit about John Kerry's work concerning Iran-Contra. Felix Rodriguez, bless his nasty, shrivelled heart, is trying to tell Americans there wasn't any dope changing hands by the plane load. It's all made up, claims the genius.

A slightly different look at Rodriguez:

After the failure of the invasion, Rodriguez escaped to Cuba and underwent further training in the US alongside Jorge Mas Canosa, founder and leader of the Cuban American National Foundation (CANF). Rodriguez was sent to Nicaragua where he was part of an operation that blew up a Spanish ship in reprisal for Spain's relations with Cuba. In 1967 Rodriguez acted as CIA link man in Bolivia, leading the hunt for Che Guevara. He interrogated Che and, despite CIA insistence that Che be captured alive, passed an order for Che's execution, saying it must appear as though Che had died in combat. Rodriguez celebrated over Che's body and stole Che's watch as a 'souvenir'.

In 1969 Rodriguez, by now a US citizen, was sent to Viet Nam. As part of the Phoenix programme he organised low-flying helicopters to machine-gun villages, a technique he was later to use against El Salvadorean guerrillas. Rodriguez also tortured and interrogated Vietnamese prisoners. In the Radio 4 programme, Rodriguez said he enjoyed his tour of duty in Viet Nam.

By 1970 Rodriguez was trafficking heroin from Laos to the US drugs network of former Havana gangster Santos Traficante as part of a CIA operation among isolated communities in Laos.
(snip/...)

http://www.ratb.org.uk/vc/vc_24_mafia.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Felix Rodriguez: Coca Contra Airport Manager
Felix Rodriguez, aka "Max Gomez," is a career CIA employee who was born in Cuba and became a senior police official under Batista. His father was minister of public works. He fled to the US and went through army officer training with Luis Posada Carriles, who he later recruited as his number 2 man for the the Contra resupply operation's major staging area.at Ilopango Air Force Base in El Salvador. This was a nerve center and transit point for the shipment of large quantities of cocaine to the US in return for weapons and supplies to the Contras.

Felix Rodriguez had an outstanding career with CIA, including acting as liaison officer with the Bolivian forces who captured and executed Che Guevera. From this he retains Che's Rolex watch and a transcript of his interrogation, which he likes to read on occasion to assembled friends at his home in Miami.

As Granma aptly puts it, he learned his trade in Laos:

"In 1970, Bush stood as a Senate candidate. He failed to get elected.

That same year, Félix Rodríguez joined Air America, another CIA front company, trafficking heroin from Laos to the U.S. drugs network of former Havana godfather Santos Traficante. The purpose of the smuggling was to influence the Laotian conflict by winning the support of isolated communities. The operation was led by Donald Gregg, who took his orders from Theodore Shackley.

It was on this job that George’s buddy learnt the trade he was to practice years later in Central America."
George and Félix: the tale of two old friends, 7/24/02

http://www.afrocubaweb.com/felixrodriguez.htm




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Che Guevara's daughter is a professor in Cuba now. I think Felix Rodriguez should make arrangements to give her back the watch he stole from her murdered father, don't you?

[Minstrel Boy]

118. Amazing to see this old school BFEE turd still in business.

Instead of a lengthy prison term for at least his crime of drug trafficking, he gets Christmas cards from Poppy and Dubya. But hey, why not? His crimes were crimes of the state.

Gee, I wonder what Frank Sturgis, aka Frank Angelo Fiorino, is doing these days?

[Judi Lynn]

133. He used nine different names. They were all connected to a jackass.

Found this item:

Frank Sturgis Resume 1976

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2515 N.W. 12nd Street
Miami, Florida 33167
7 May 1976

Mr. Gene Wilson
Information and Privacy Coordinator
Central Intelligence Agency
Washington, D.C. 20205

Re: Pre-freedom of information request notice of charges.

Dear Mr. Wilson:

Before exercising my right to a freedom of information request for copies of any and all available (in accordance with the declassification processes stipulated in Executive Order 11652 and its amendment of January 1974) files of records and documents, both computerized and manual apposite of me and my activities under my present and former names and pseudonyms, I hereby request the complete and final estimate of charges for search and duplication services.

As regards the charges for these services, two matters may be worthy of consideration. The first of them, is that, given the proper access codes, the execution of a computer search is neither difficult nor costly. And the second is that in light of the controversial nature of my past, a waiver or reduction of charges may conduce to the furtherance of the public interest. I therefore respectfully request that these factors be considered in the making of a decision as to the cost of services.

In compliance with your request for identity verification (pursuant to provisions of the 1974 Privacy Act, section 552, subsections b and d) I hereby swear before a notary public as to my name and former names, my present address, my date as well as place of birth, and my citizenship. Thanking you for your cooperation, I am

Yours truly,

Frank Sturgis

a.k.a. Frank Angelo Fiorino
Frank Angelo Fiorini
Frank A. Fiorini
Frank Anthony Sturgis
Frank A. Sturgis
Frank Sturgis
Frank Bonnelli
Frank Campbell

code names:
Federini
Barbarossa
Samson

(snip)

http://cuban-exile.com/doc_276-300/doc0286.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The chronology says he was in Cuba BEFORE the revolution, apparently working IN Cuba as a CIA agent.

[Mika]

131. Note that both Che's and Fidel's children are in the education field

The Guevara and Castro families are polar opposites of the B/C clans.



__________




Bushcrime's Pinkertons at Work

[Judi Lynn]

140. Neil Bush, however, works to cheapen and trivialize education!

From the WaPo:

Ignite! is designed, Bush said, to make learning fun for "hunter-warrior" kids who don't like reading. It's a computer curriculum that uses music, graphics and animation to teach middle school kids.

The program's first course -- eighth-grade American history -- was tested over the last two years in schools in a dozen states. Available commercially for the first time this year, it is being used by about 40,000 students in 120 school districts, mostly in Texas, at a cost of about $30 per pupil.
(snip)

However, Ignite! has been attacked by other educators for dumbing down history. Among its controversial aspects is a lesson that depicts the Seminole Wars in a cartoon football game -- "the Jacksons vs. the Seminoles" -- the animated Indians smashing helmets with animated white settlers. The Constitutional Convention is taught in a rap song:

It was 55 delegates from 12 states

Took one hot Philadelphia summer to create

A perfect document for their imperfect times

Franklin, Madison, Washington -- a lot of the cats

Who used to be in the Continental Congress way back.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A35297-2003Dec27?language=printer

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Isn't that precious? Using the country's children as a scam. He fleeced the previous generation through his Silverado opportunism.

[Judi Lynn]

145. Has it been publicized when Aleida Guevara March has visited Miami?

I've read about another visit there, and just found this press release I wondered if you had seen:

Pour publication immédiate: 20 mars 2003



Che Guevara's daughter condemns unjust trial in Miami

by Kristine Greenaway*

The daughter of Ernesto "Che" Guevara, Dr Aleida Guevara March, speaking yesterday at the Ecumenical Centre in Geneva at the invitation of the World Council of Churches (WCC), condemned as "deeply flawed" the trial of five Cubans in Miami, Florida, USA. The five were charged with accessory to murder and spying after infiltrating an anti-Cuban terrorist group based in Miami. In her presentation, Dr Guevara March, a pediatrician practising in Cuba, said the trial proceedings had flaunted the basic legal rights and norms due to accused people under American law.

Dr Guevara March's trip to Geneva is part of a wave of protests against the irregularities of the trial and the harsh sentences ranging from 15 years to life. She was accompanied in her visit to the Ecumenical Centre by Cuba's ambassador to Switzerland and a delegation of Cuban officials. "We ask the World Council of Churches to be in solidarity with us, to ask for clemency for the five Cubans under arrest in Miami", Dr Guevara March said. Her visit follows that of the president of the Cuban Council of Churches, Rev. Dr Reineiro Arce, who had made the same plea to staff of the WCC.

"The World Council of Churches", said Dr Guillermo Kerber of the International Relations staff "is concerned that justice be done and all legalities be taken into account in the legal proceedings against these five people."

In her wide-ranging presentation, Dr Guevara March talked about the impact of the US blockade on the health of Cuba's children. "Doctors cannot get basic medication for children suffering from leukemia," she said. Noting current concerns for the situation in Iraq, Dr Guevara March pointed to the impact of a similar blockade on the children of Iraq, and urged the WCC to continue being part of worldwide calls to prevent war in Iraq.

In her closing remarks, she shared stories of her early memories of her father, the Argentinian revolutionary who fought with Cuba's leader, Fidel Castro, in the revolution of 1959. "We, his family, fight against use of the term "myth" to describe him. My father was a man with virtues ... and with some flaws," she said to a round of laughter. "If we turn him into a myth, he is not a man. We want him to be known as a man. A man who loved a woman with whom he had four children in five years. A man who went to work for people other than his own people, who loved those people and fought for them."
(snip/)

http://www2.wcc-coe.org/pressreleasesfr.nsf/index/Feat-03-03.html?OpenDocument&Click=

[burrowowl]

103. Viva! Viva! Che!

and VIVA CHE!

[Nebraska_Liberal]

104. Che

I bought my Che t-shirt from a real communist in Mexico City not urban outfitters, which che would absolutely despise! Trendy bastards!

[burrowowl]

159. Welcome to DU!

Did you go see Trotsky's house in Colonia Coyocan?

[6th Borough]

115. Has anyone seen "Viva Zapata!" featuring Marlon Brando?

If so, is that film any good? I know Brando's performance has been critically acclaimed, but haven't heard much about that film overall.

[6th Borough]

120. Opps...early morning brainfart...

Mixing up my Latin American revolutionaries...

need...more...coffee...

[Minstrel Boy]

121. I haven't seen that. But oddly enough, I've seen "Che!"

starring Omar Shariff in the title role, Jack Palance (!) as Fidel.

That was...interesting.

Welcome to DU, 6th Borough! :hi:

[fedsron2us]

123. I know Che was killed by the CIA

but had there not been some ideological split between Guevara and Castro prior to his death about how the revolutionary struggle should be conducted ? He did did not enjoy the support from Havana and Moscow for his mission to Bolivia that might have been expected. It seems that dead Che, the martyr, was more useful to Castro and the Kremlin than live Che, the revolutionary.

edit for spelling

[seemslikeadream]

125. Tamara Bunke Bider

a Russian spy?

[Judi Lynn]

126. Maybe you could elucidate. It would be helpful. Thanks. n/t

[fedsron2us]

149. Here is a link

http://www.fifthinternational.org/LFIfiles/che.html

It mentions that the Communist Party in a number of Eastern European states expressed hostility to Che's expedition to Bolivia

This is from a Trotskyist web site so I do not suppose it is particularly sympathetic to the Soviet position.

[Judi Lynn]

151. Thanks for the link.

Found myself resisting reading it, broke off. I believed a lot of it was sheer speculation, and I wouldn't have the base to disprove it, actually. I've not really rumaged around too much in writing like this.

Thanks, anyway.

[fedsron2us]

152. Sorry you found the article hard work

The facts seem to be taken from Anderson's biography which by all accounts is a fair and accurate rendering of Che's life. The Trotskyist interpretation of the evidence is only of interest to those who find the doctrinal hair splitting of Marxist theorist exciting. Most of the time it just sends me to sleep.

[Bridget Burke]

127. Che was a true revolutionary....

And was not useful as a bureaucrat, helping set up a government in Cuba. He really wanted to start a revolution in his homeland, Argentina, but would have died even sooner if he'd tried that. In Bolivia, there was a lack of support from the local "revolutionaries"; they were mostly in the cities, not the rural area where Che tried to fight & was eventually captured. (I believe the locals came to appreciate him after he died.)

Fidel, Che, et al., were able to beat Batista because they had great support in the cities & the countryside.

Check out one (or more) of the fairly recent Che biographies. Jon Lee Anderson, Jorge Castaneda & Paco Ignacio Taibo, II, all wrote good ones.

[Minstrel Boy]

128. "I believe the locals came to appreciate him after he died"

Here's an interesting recent story concerning the regard with which Che is held in the region of Bolivia where he was killed:

Detroit Free Press, Aug 20

LA HIGUERA, Bolivia -- Revolutionary Ernesto (Che) Guevara, an atheist, has almost been reborn a saint in the desolate Bolivian village where he was captured and executed nearly 37 years ago. Like many a saint, he's also a tourist draw.

...

Today his handsome mug appears on the walls of homes and in market stalls in remote La Higuera, where he died, and in Vallegrande, where he was secretly buried. In many homes, his face competes for wall space with Jesus, the Virgin Mary and a host of Catholic saints.


"They say he brings miracles," said Susana Osinaga, 70, who was a young nurse on Oct. 9, 1967, when she washed the blood off Guevara's corpse in Vallegrande's small hospital.

...

"It's like he is alive and with us, like a friend. He is kind of like a Virgin for us. We say, 'Che, help us with our work or with this planting,' and it always goes well," said Manuel Cortez, a poor La Higuera farmer who lived next door to the schoolhouse where Guevara was executed.

[Judi Lynn]

130. Glad to read this article. Isn't it interesting that the very town where

he was killed still doesn't have electricity?

It's not important enough to attract wealthy homeowners, so screw'em, evidently.

[Mika]

132. In my travels around central and south Americas, Che is loved universally

The poorer the district (and I've see destitute as places can get) the greater the love for the Cuban revolutionaries.


Viva Cuba!

Abajo Bush!


________________

[JimmyJazz]

134. Yes, Fidel and Che definitely split following the

revolution. Fidel wasn't the Marxist Che wanted him to be. There were other reasons, but that was one of the main ones. I would try reading Jon Anderson's Che: A Revolutionary Life. It has been mentioned in other posts above. It doesn't glorify Che nor does it villify him. The book is long (starting with childhood), but does give insight as to Che's motivation for some of the things he did.

Also, I have to agree with some of the posters who don't necessarily see Che as an icon. This was a man who admired the teachings of Mao and in fact referred to his first born daughter as "my little mao."

[Judi Lynn]

136. Could you give any links to your information?

As you visit longer, you'll see DU'ers tend to provide links to historical material in their posts.

Gives credibility.

[JimmyJazz]

138. No, not this time. I got the information the old fashioned way.

It's one thing to get snippets of information from a google search, but those articles can be skewed to the right or left. As you can see from the heated conversation above, google searches aren't necessarily deemed reliable sources. Many posters have read and recommend Jon Anderson, Che: A Revolutionary Life (me included). That is where I got my information.

Sorry for the long answer to a short question

[Bridget Burke]

139. You mean--you still read books?

So do I.

I've got a bookshelf half full of books by or about Che.

[JimmyJazz]

142. Yes! I still read books - it's very difficult to curl up in front

of the fireplace with a glass of wine and a good monitor! Sometimes I even remember what I read! :7

[Judi Lynn]

143. "My little Mao" was so distinctive I was certain I would find a reference,

perhaps an anecdote presenting a view of Che Guevara's addressing his daughter, Dr Aleida Guevara March, affectionately, using China's leader's name. Got nada.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=%22My+little+Mao%22

Very slim pickings, indeed. Sounds interesting, however.

[JimmyJazz]

148. I tried to scan the photo from the book with the caption, but

I couldn't get it to come out. Oh, you have the wrong child, too. It was Hilda's child with Che and her real name was Hilda Beatriz. That might help in your search. I'll try, too.

[JimmyJazz]

154. here it is via google

En esta época cambia con frecuencia de residencia. "Mi profesión actual es la de saltarín, hoy aquí, mañana allí". Pero al pasar el tiempo sin que haya controles policiales, regresa a la capital para hablar con los hermanos Castro, ver a su hija, a la que llama "mi pequeña india" o "mi pequeña Mao".

The link is: http://216.239.39.104/translate_c?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://usuarios.lycos.es/jacace/fidel.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhilda%2Bbeatriz%2Bche%2Bmao%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26sa%3DG

It was a tough search as you can see!

[fedsron2us]

146. Thanks for the reply

I am far from being a Che expert but a friend of mine who was big on Marxist politics did mention that Guevara and Castro had ideological differences at the end. Che's expedition to Bolivia and his final murder seem like a bit of a Calvary road. This may explain some of his enduring appeal to people. The mixture of Catholic and Marxist iconography is quite compelling.

[Judi Lynn]

135. Found some photos I haven't seen before:

(The guy with the hat on the right is his travel companion, /Alberto Granado.) Che is with his mother, Celia de la Serna.


Here's the lil' fella who was the other half of Los
Dos Amigos who made the long, life-transforming trip:
Alberto Granado. He helped make the film,lives in Cuba.

[JimmyJazz]

141. you are the best with the photos! n/t

[Judi Lynn]

144. Not really, 101er, just deeply interested in what faces reveal.

I really believe you see character or lack thereof every time. EVERY TIME. Goodness, honesty, openness, kindness, intelligence are all there on a face.


OR NOT!

[JimmyJazz]

147. that photo just proves my point!

[study_war_no_more]

164. Beware of tshirts from fashion something another

They stopped stores in Minnesota from selling che's image they bought the copywrite it seems, there t shirts are made in Honduras. The ones i Got online read not bad for a fucking commie pinko and i love them

[Judi Lynn]

150. Unbelievable photo I just found. Holy moly!

His daughter Hilda he had with Hildea Gadea, his first wife. His first child, "Hildita."

For anyone who can either read Spanish well, or remembers some words from taking it in school, here's a letter he wrote to his children to be read if he got bumped off, evidently. I remember only enough words to see they undoubtedly cried their eyes out:

Carta entregada por Fidel Castro a Hildita, tras la muerte del Che

Queridos Hildita, Aleidita, Camilo, Celia y Ernesto:

Si alguna vez tienen que leer esta carta, será porque yo no este entre Uds. Casi no se acordaran de mí y los más chiquitos no recordarán nada.


Su padre ha sido un hombre que actúa como piensa y, seguro ha sido leal a sus convicciones.

Crezcan como buenos revolucionarlos. Estudien mucho para poder dominar la técnica que permite dominar la naturaleza. Acuérdense que la Revolución es lo importante y que cada uno de nosotros, solo, no vale nada.

Sobre todo, sean siempre capaces de sentir en lo más hondo cualquier injusticia cometida contra cualquiera en cualquier parte del mundo. Es la cualidad mas linda de un revolucionario.

Hasta siempre hijitos, espero verlos todavía.

Un beso grandote y un abrazo de papá
(snip/)
http://www.inicia.es/de/VictorArrogante/carpetahistoria/Che/Che_guevara.htm

[Octafish]

157. Here's a try...

Letter delivered by Fidel Castro to Hildita, upon the death of Che

Dear Hildita, Aleidita, Camilo, Celia and Ernesto:

If you should have to read this letter, it is because I am no longer among you. You may almost not remember me and the youngest among you probably will remember nothing of me.

You father has been a man who acts the way he thinks, certainly he has been loyal to his convictions.

Grow up like good revolutionaries. Study a lot in order to master the technology that permits man to dominate nature. Remember that the Revolution is what's important and that each of us, alone, is worth nothing.

Above all, always be capable of feeling at the deepest level any injustice committed against any person in any part of the world. It is the most beautiful quality of a revolutionary.

(idiom -- literally: "Until forever") children, hoping to see you again.

A gigantic kiss and a hug from dad

(Translated by Octafish)

[Judi Lynn]

165. Thanks so much for unlocking this message for us, Octafish.

It leaves one with a horrible lump in one's throat, and eyes filling with tears.

I'll bet those children absorbed this letter immediately and have been carrying it around with them in their hearts all this time.

"Hasta siempre" seems beautiful, and hopeful.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So Fidel Castro delivered it to Hildita, who was his first child. I found a photo of her, her dad, and Fidel Castro:



What a cute kid. She would have been 10 or more when her father was murdered and Fidel Castro brought her the letter Che Guevara wrote in case he was killed.

Octafish, you did such a favor for DU'ers who wanted to know what the man wrote preparing for his own death. It was moving. Thank you many times.

[Octafish]

166. You're welcome, JudiLyn. I admire Che's philosophy of Revolution...

... as I see it he meant working to make the world a better place for ALL people. One can't ask for more than that from any person or ideology or cause.

What I don't agree with are the means the Revolution employs in Cuba and around the world. They are the same as those employed by the Reactionaries, the contras of the world and the neo-Cons of home. Both kill innocents and enemies for the sake of their cause.

Both sides of this spectrum believe the ends justify the means and thus terror continues decade after decade. In Bolivia, Felix Rodriguez murdered a captured Che in cold blood. In America, Poppy Bush covered up the murder of Orlando Letelier and Ronni Morrit in cold blood. In Havana, Castro put friends of my family up against the wall.

I think of my friend's uncle. His crime was speaking out in public against the Revolution going commie. A physician, he was not armed. He just disagreed. And he had to di for having dangerous ideas -- to the Revolution or the Reaction -- ideas are more dangerous than bullets.

Which brings me to the most important idea -- one that Mao who believed "Power comes from the barrel of a gun" would never agree with. It is this: "Violence is never the answer."

As we have seen in our own lives, it only begets more violence and hatred and enmity. As Jesus and Gandhi and all the great philosophers taught: It is only through non-violent change can true peace emerge.

And that's why DU is such a powerful place. There are many great ideas here, generated by great thinkers and do-ers like you. And they will change the world -- for the better.

[fedsron2us]

168. You would have to possess a very hard heart ........

not to be moved by that letter.

[David Zephyr]

169. Great Photo Of Che.

[Judi Lynn]

171. Interesting. Tiny dog resting in his arm. Really nice one.

I just found this new one, too. I've never seen it, either.



Their leaders really got right out there and got things done themselves, didn't they? Amazing.