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Peanut Gallery Donating Member (325 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 05:45 PM
Original message
Observers Foresee Snags in U.S. Election
Edited on Tue Sep-28-04 05:47 PM by Ravenswood
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040928/ap_on_el_pr/election_observers

WASHINGTON - Problems loom for the presidential election including voting equipment changes that could delay the outcome past Nov. 2, a group of international observers said Tuesday in a report.

(snip)

Many of the new touch-screen machines that will be used by up to 50 million voters on Nov. 2 do not produce the paper ballots needed for a manual recount of votes, the report said.

This "may cause postelection disputes and litigation, potentially delaying the announcement of final results," it said.
(more)

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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. No surprises here. Democrats just have to be on hand to monitor
the recounts.
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5thGenDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. But without a paper trail
You can't DO recounts. There will be much litigation, which will eventually wind up in the (fixed) US "Supreme" Court, which will put Emperor Dopey right back on the throne.
Then we hit the streets, I hope. More likely, the American booboisie will simply get distracted by trinkets and shiny metal objects (again).
John
Who already has his Canadian flag ready to go beginning Nov. 3. I make it a habit to "fly the flag," but that doesn't mean I have to fly an American one.
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arwalden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 05:33 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. I Fully Expect Massive Civil Unrest And Violence If Bush* "Wins"
this country will never be what it once was. Not because of terrorism, but because of Bush*.

-- Allen
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reprobate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. I fully expect that you are prescient. Maybe aven a civil war?

After all, he started one in iraq, why not here?

Actually, Allen, I'm beginning to believe that this country really NEEDS a civil insurrection that will change the paradym that this country operates under. The corporation has become both the political director of the country and the economic bain of the people of the world. And I think that enough people here have seen this to be the truth that we will not see a civil war as such, but rather a movement that targets the corporations and their management. This kind of action will bring the system down with a crunch. What corporation could survive when it's management leaves out of fear of snipers, sappers, and other anti-corporate types.

There will be no return to democracy until the corporation is just a footnote in history.
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Az_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. Could easily happen...
I'm in the Nat'l Guard and we're been told that we're going to be on alert during the election.....Four years after the last fiasco and we have to go through this again? There's no excuse for this, Kerry should bring this up during the debates.

:mad:
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. WHAT Recounts? -- They Won't Let it Be Close Enough for Recounts
Edited on Wed Sep-29-04 04:54 PM by AndyTiedye
In 2000, they didn't steal enough votes.
It was close enough to need a recount,
despite last-minute efforts with extra memory cards (NEGATIVE 16000 Gore votes)
and bogus absentee ballots (without postmarks),
and punching extra holes in Gore votes to disqualify them,

They won't make that mistake again.
They'll just upload the results they want into the tabulators.
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Dimsdale Donating Member (466 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. Banana republic...
Love that term. Also, what was the quote attributed to Uncle Joe Stalin about those who count the votes?
So we're a paragon of democracy, the envy of the planet, eh? What a fucking joke.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-28-04 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
4. wtf? No paper ballot? Like BBV.org and other have been ....
SCREAMING for almost two years???

Well how about....

A PEN, PAPER AND A DAY TO COUNT THE BALLOTS?!?
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VegasWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. Exactly! and the state registrar of California! Long live Diebold! Not!
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 05:13 AM
Response to Original message
5. biggest problem....Where the data is consolidated??
MY question is this. Where are the BIG tabulations done? When do the absentee, electronic, paper, punch-card etc all get added together?

On whose machines......and who will be watching THERE?
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Surf Cowboy Donating Member (500 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. AnnaBanana Republic!!!!
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 05:21 AM
Response to Original message
6. Please email asking this group to help us NOW: office@odihr.pl
nt
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anarchy1999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 05:37 AM
Response to Original message
8. Let's Act in the the Democratic Emergency, by Ronnie Dugger 7/30/04
Ronnie Dugger is a long time activist from Texas. This is a must read for everyone and has some really good suggestions. We don't have much time left to get prepared. The 2004 Election Hurricane is out in the Atlantic and bearing down on us.

Ronnie Dugger (rdugger123@aol.com) was the founding editor of the Texas Observer, co-founder of the Alliance for Democracy, and a reporter and writer, author of biographies of Lyndon Johnson and Ronald Reagan. This article is an excerpt from a speech the author gave at Fanueil Hall, Boston, Tuesday, July 27 in an event sponsored by Alliance for Democracy, American Friends Service Committee, United for Justice and Peace.

Published on Friday, July 30, 2004 by CommonDreams.org
Let's Act in the the Democratic Emergency
by Ronnie Dugger


We are in an American emergency. It is the emergency of all our American emergencies. Along with the Civil War, this is our second crisis of legitimacy, but more, it is the culminative crisis of our identity. Are we a democracy, or have we irreversibly degenerated into a Presidential-corporate-military dictatorship? Are we still a good country, or are we becoming a bad country? Can we understand and act in the emergency well and fast enough, or will we lose the United States as we know it?

snip:
Suppose we were ready to judge the election returns with high-quality exit polls reported to us by midnight election night? Suppose, to cope with this democratic emergency, leaders of the people's movement and organizations assemble now, say, a Committee of the Democratic Emergency, or the Committee of November 3rd, which will be prepared to call for the nonviolent occupation of Washington in the event of a stolen presidential election. Only planning by such a broad-based representative of the entire people's movement could possibly fund and master the million organizing details for Nov. 2, 3, and after, that would be required. Arranging in advance for bedding down thousands in the D.C. area. And coming up with a step by step plan, of daily bulletins, websites, demonstrations and marches, public hearings conducted by willing members of Congress and leading citizens, on such subjects as national health insurance, the public funding and public conducting of public elections, a constitutional amendment to guarantee the right to vote and have your vote counted and manually recounted.

"The odds are that this election the window of opportunity will be 24 hours," as Jonathan Simon, a specialist in exzit polling, says. If it comes to that, such a committee might call for the occupation of Washington in the memory and honor of, say, Frederick Douglass, Susan B. Anthony, Mahatma Gandhi, Cesar Chavez, and Martin Luther King. Might bring back to life the leading spirit of Reverend King by finally enacting the peaceful occupation of Washington he was actively planning when he was murdered 36 years ago.



snip:
......We have to act. As another advocate of planning for November 3rd says, "We need a whole suite of approaches." If you want to do this please tell Dr. Peter Mott of Rochester, New York, who, under the rubric "Save the Election," is collecting the names of organizations and individuals that want to do this, or something like it, before, when, and if worst comes to worst on November 2nd. Peter Mott's telephone number is 585-381-5606, and his email is interconnect-mott@juno.com .

We the American people are on trial at the bar of history. If we let the Presidency be stolen with invisibly counted votes we're both stupid and supine. If we do not act now against the theft of the election, we may be complicitous in the confirmed incarnation of the first privately controlled dictatorship of the mass mind in history.

No. Consider, instead, that we, and all our good and strong organizations, might decide to form--say--the Committee of the Democratic Emergency, and through it take upon ourselves, if we come to deem it necessary, to declare--say,--a State of Gandhian Noncooperation and Nonviolent Civil Resistance, to declare-say--that the stolen Presidency, and the White House occupied four more years by the usurper, we will Never Accept.


http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0730-10.htm
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kayell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 05:48 AM
Response to Original message
9. Could we have even imagined such a headline 5 years ago?
Another measure of how much we have lost.
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 05:51 AM
Response to Original message
10. Thanks for posting, Ravenswood -- and welcome to DU --
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
11. kick
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
14. A Florida judge just ruled that the suit against Florida can go on
The suit filed with the help of Congressman Wexler to have a paper trail so ballots could be recounted as Florida Law specifies. I found that a bit of good news. Now if they can only win their suit.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
17. Monkey Business at the Vote Tabulators
Edited on Wed Sep-29-04 04:48 PM by AndyTiedye
If a chimpanzee can monkey with the vote totals, surely the Repubs can manage it.

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/baxter/baxterVPR.mov

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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-29-04 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
19. Is that a threat or a promise?
Or, is it that, if Bush* were to somehow win legitimately, they would shout it from every rooftop on Nov. 2, BUT if, and only if, Kerry wins, they are prepared to use every sleazy delaying (DeLaying? :-) ) tactic in the book to ensure the continuity of Bush* dynastic rule?

:scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared:
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