Laser Beam Injuries Delta Pilots Eye

[ElsewheresDaughter]

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,595094973,00.html


Federal transportation officials and FBI agents are trying to determine the source of a laser beam that illuminated the cockpit of a Delta Air Lines plane last week, damaging the eye of a pilot.
The incident occurred Sept. 22 as a Dallas-to-Salt Lake City Boeing 737 was about five miles from landing at the Salt Lake City International Airport. The pilot and first officer told officials of the Transportation Security Administration that the light was visible in the cockpit, with the first officer later reporting he felt a burning sensation in one eye. A doctor confirmed the man had suffered retinal damage.



and

http://newscenter.ninn.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=6283

Salt Lake City, UT -- A pilot flying a Delta Air Lines jet was injured by a laser that illuminated the cockpit of the aircraft as it approached Salt Lake City International Airport last week, U.S. officials said

The plane's two pilots reported that the Boeing 737 had been five miles from the airport when they saw a laser beam inside the cockpit, said officials familiar with government reports of the Sept. 22 incident. The flight, which originated in Dallas, landed without further incident at about 9:30 p.m. local time.


A short while later, however, the first officer felt a stinging sensation in one eye. A doctor who examined the pilot determined that he had suffered a burned retina from exposure to a laser device, the officials said.

more...

[clydefrand]

1. Little green men got to close to the plane???

[saigon68]

2. Ask the U.S. Military.

They might know the source-- But I seriously doubt they will say anything more than "No comment"

[goforit]

18. Yes....And I wonder who was on that plane that they wanted to knock out

[slojim240]

25. You know damn well it was our special ops. We are using laser guns

in Iraq right now. We are the world's most dangerous nation with the world's most dangerous weapons, with the world's most incompetent leader at the helm. How can any country trust us with WMDs. Afterall, we are the only nation to have ever used a nuclear weapon on a civilian population: TWICE!!! No nation on earth has ever done that. And we act as though it was a noble action and the rest of the world pretends it ended WWII which was over when the bomb was dropped.

[RivetJoint]

29. I KNOW you have the evidence to back

that up, correct?

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

31. Okay, so who has lasers powerful and accurate enough to

damage a retina on a plane in flight?

[lexicon089]

36. true story. this has happened before

I know for a fact that this same thing happened about 15 years ago by the canada/US border. at the time it was believed to be russian operatives but who knows what it is now. by the way this IS a legitimate story it was reported on fox and cnn both.

[Barrett808]

3. Lasers have been employed for years as anti-personnnel weapons

I remember years ago, when some US fighter pilots reporting their cockpit was illuminated by laser light from a Soviet spy ship.

[MADem]

15. And that poor bastard had to fight like hell for his benefits!

I remember that case--it was a helo pilot serving with the Canadians. First, USN tried to kick him out, then, when his congressman intervened, they put him on LIMDU but would not promote him, then, with more intervention, he got his promotion and eventually I think he retired. The source of the laser was determined to be one of those russkie "fishing boats" -- the guy has applied for a Purple Heart but they are still balking on that. For the life of me, I fail to understand how the USN can hand out "Cold War Certificates" like candy and not acknowledge that this guy was wounded in that very Cold War. They should be ashamed of themselves.

I'm new...flopping around, posting here and there, trying to get into the swing of things....and waiting for the debates to start. Hello, all!:hi:

[BlueJazz]

21. Hi MADem... It's great to have you here and Welcome !!

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

35. That is because there would be thousands and thousands

of PH's awarded for things they do still not want to admit happened.

That's why.

[lovuian]

4. I guess Pilots will have to wear glasses to protect their eyes

What a terrible thing to happen
How far can a Lazer travel....thats a powerful Lazer isn't it

[LifeDuringWartime]

5. as far as you want

provided you have enough juice

[ElsewheresDaughter]

6. laser beams can go on forever...5 years ago they were selling laser lights

real lasers to children on the jersey shore boardwalks for $20 a pop and i watched in horror as little kids shined them into other kids eyes...these were REAL lasers. i went to the boardwalk authority police and put a stop to it...the sellers of these lasers were israeli's

[livinbella]

7. they must have bought them wholesale - to sell them so cheap

i wonder what kind of power those lasers had

[ElsewheresDaughter]

8. Laser Pointers are cheap and should NOT be sold to children

The Safe Use of Common Laser Pointers

Despite their size, availability, and the fact that most pen size laser pointers are powered by small, widely obtainable batteries, these pointing devices can cause eye damage if used improperly. The potential hazard is limited to looking directly into the laser beam with unprotected eyes. No hazard to the skin exists. Users of laser pointers should never aim the pointer into the audience. When storing pointers, remove the power source or unscrew the case/housing enough to disable the power source.

Pen size laser pointers have become common presentation aids in recent years. These battery powered laser pointers that produce a narrow, bright red beam are convenient to carry and use, relatively inexpensive, and readily available through mail-order catalogs and magazines. http://www.eh.doe.gov/docs/sn/nsh9410.html

[Radius]

24. Power

Laser components are un regulated up to 500mw, and it would take much more than a laser pointer. A laser cutter could do that. You could build a laser that transmit in IR range that would do massive damage and is invisible.

Lasers pointers are .5mw or less(class3a). Even the green ones do not focus enough energy to destroy tissue. It would take a highly commentated (focused) beam from a multi miliwattwatt laser to damage your eye at miles distance.
This can only be done with 3b or 4 lasers. Class 4 can cut steel from cad designs. This would burn a hole through the backside of your head.

[sweetheart]

10. Those lasers don't go far enough

To go 5 miles to cause damage to a pilots eye would involve one
that is about a foot and a half long, and the thickness of your
fist... plugged in to mains power.

The diode lasers that are used in presentations are so weak that
you'd have to look in to one for a bit to get a retinal burn.

They did not say the colour of the laser, and likely it is a shorter
wavelength one like "green" so that it can transmit more energy...
However to hit a pilots eye, it would need to be at an angle to
hit the front of the airplane, so likely it would have to be fired
from near the runway, and from a very steady hand... 5 miles out..
in earth atmosphere...

I would not relate such an incedent to those crap pointers you
get for 20 bucks... they expand to a spot the size of a dime at
100 feet, and could not possibly be related to such an incedent.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

11. lasers that were sold to my son did not expand to dime size at 100 feet...

These pointers are not dangerous when used with care, but the brightness of laser light can damage the eyes of anyone who looks directly into the beam

Laser technology was first developed in the 1960s, and has grown to touch our lives in many ways. We use laser technology in space-age medical equipment, office printers and light shows at rock concerts.

A laser is the strongest source of light ever created by scientists. The beam that comes out of a simple hand-held laser pointer is at least a million times brighter than the average light bulb in your home.

The letters in "laser" stand for Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation

Laser Pointers
The Issue
Hand-held laser pointers are popular in Canada. Unfortunately, users are not knowledgeable about the intensity of the light and the effect it may have on the eye.

If you look directly into the beam from a laser pointer for more than a minute and a half in a very steady manner, or shine the beam into your eyes with binoculars, you could end up with permanent eye damage.

Background
Laser technology was first developed in the 1960s, and has grown to touch our lives in many ways. We use laser technology in space-age medical equipment, office printers and light shows at rock concerts.

A laser is the strongest source of light ever created by scientists. The beam that comes out of a simple hand-held laser pointer is at least a million times brighter than the average light bulb in your home.

The letters in "laser" stand for Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation



Concern about Laser Pointers
These pointers are not dangerous when used with care, but the brightness of laser light can damage the eyes of anyone who looks directly into the beam for more than a minute and a half.

A split-second look can result in a condition called flashblindness. This is similar to the effect you get during flash photography, where the image of the flash remains in your eyes for a few seconds, and then fades away.

Flashblindness is temporary. Your vision returns to normal after a few moments, and there are no long-term effects. However, a longer look can cause serious damage to your eyes. It's worse if the laser beam is being projected through a piece of optical equipment, such as a telescope or a pair of binoculars. In these situations, the laser beam could actually burn a tiny spot, or cut open a blood vessel, on the retina at the back of your eye. In a worst-case scenario, you could go blind.

www.hc-sc.gc.ca/english/iyh/products/laser.html

[sweetheart]

12. but it din't go 5 miles either

I've a little collection of those things, and i've tested them out.
If you want a beem to go 5 miles in atmosphere with the intensity
and accuracy to hit a pilot's eye, you need more than a little
keychain one.... and my point is that the two are not related...

I agree that any laser can be dangerous... just the inference you
made seems that the two are linked, and i'm quite skeptical.

Whomever was able to damage a pilots retina at 5 miles was using
lab equiptment.

[jmowreader]

13. Or a surveyor's laser

Hmmm...was there any surveying happening in the area?

[Conservativesux]

26. surveyor's laser......not

Not enough power to do that kind of damage

[ozone_man]

28. Right, they are not very powerful.

They use reflecting short pulsed lasers like speed detectors (LIDAR). Eye damage at 5 miles would have to be a powerful lab laser or a weapon.

[amber dog democrat]

9. You could project a spot on the moon

or beyond that. They're not toys.

[Gyre]

22. It's not a pointer, that's for sure.

You need serious power behind a laser that can damage an eye in the cockpit of a plane that's in flight.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

32. and accuracy... the bastards move pretty fast ya know.

[Conservativesux]

27. No, you cant

The beam can and would spread out to a degree at that distance.

[6th Borough]

33. At least to the moon and back. Literally.

IIRC. If my memory isn't failing me, I remember that a ground-based laser was once used to measure the precise distance between the Earth and our moon.

So...ehh...pretty damn far.

[Jack_DeLeon]

39. Yep...

on either the 1st Apollo mission, or maybe it was one of the later ones, they set up a reflector on the surface of the moon. That reflector is still there and scientists periodically laze it so they can see how fast the moon is moving away and whatnot.

[Ezlivin]

14. That pilot would not have survived a rock concert in the 70s.

I recall attending several concerts where powerful krypton lasers were fired directly into the audience. We thought nothing of it at the time; it was just a special effect.

It's very easy to purchase a laser strong enough to blind a pilot from five miles away.

Am I becoming paranoid if I start wondering what terrorists could do with a laser?

[lovuian]

16. Well all they have to do is get special glasses right

Delta is having major problems in bankruptcy

but it does show that Lazer technology is here and can possible wreak havoc ....I suggest all pilots wear lazer protected glasses and that will stop that idea

[Jack_DeLeon]

17. Green laser pointer maybe. :P

I like lasers and other nifty gadgets, a few years ago my girlfriend bought me a green laser pointer for Christmas.

Unlike red laser pointers green ones can be seen reflected off of stuff in the daylight. Additionally at night you can see the full beam without the use of fog or mist like you would need to see a red one.

They are great for stargazers because you can point out stuff and people around you can actually see the beam and where its pointing.

I remember when I first got it and tried it out one night I aimed it skyward, the skys at the time were a bit cloudy and I could see the laser light diffusing off one of the clouds.

[sweetheart]

23. Green one only goes a click

I've tested it with my telescope. The green ones are mega cool,
but 5 miles ... no.

BTW, if you've got an extra 200 bucks, a green laser pointer is one
of the coolest toys that the light sabre generation appreciates.

:-)

[mumon]

38. A terrorist wouldn't use a pointer.

Medical devices.

scientific devices

Much, much higher power.

[goforit]

19. Hmmmm.......And what about Wellstone?

Ya never know????

[TheCentepedeShoes]

20. I read a book (fiction)

by John Nance called "Blackout" that delt with a laser.

[loudsue]

30. This happened to me this week in northern California!!! It's real!!

I was driving slowly, and with the window down, on a side road off the 101 Highway, high on a mountaintop, looking out the driver's side window, and suddenly this VERY sharp beam of light hit my left eye. I had headaches the rest of the day, and my vision in that eye is still kind of blurry.

My first thought was "where in the hell did THAT come from??" It was real white light, a tiny beam, and didn't act like the sun's light reflected off a mirror or anything. It really freaked me out... still does!

I can't believe I'm reading about this happening to someone else this soon after my own experience.

:tinfoilhat: Whassup with THAT??? :tinfoilhat:

:kick::kick::kick:

[greyl]

34. Some laser facts, to balance with the rhetoric:

"You pick which retroreflector you want to aim at, then you focus the beam as tightly as you can. But even then, the atmosphere distorts the beam so that when it hits the moon it's 2 kilometers in diameter," Murphy said.

"Only one in 30 million of the photons that you launch to the moon will actually find the retroreflector. It's like winning the lottery -- very tall odds," he said. "And then for a photon to make it back to the telescope, the odds again are about one in 30 million." That's because once the light makes it back to Earth, it has expanded to about 15 kilometers -- or 9.3 miles -- in diameter.

The number of photons detected depends a lot on the technology and the size of the telescope. Current laser-ranging experiments detect just a single photon from every 100 laser pulses sent. But this will be the first time advanced measuring technology has been used in conjunction with a telescope as large as that at Apache Point, so Murphy hopes to detect five to 10 photons for each laser pulse."

http://unisci.com/stories/20021/0115024.htm

[mumon]

37. This is either an inside job (like the anthrax guy?) or al Qaeda...

This has the same pattern as the anthrax thing.

Government has inside sources to do this, like with anthrax.

OTOH, high powered lasers aren't exactly difficult to find and/or build.

And that "facts about lasers" post?

1. There's "billions and billions" of photons emitted by a laser.

2. It's the coherency of the light that makes the laser light so much more intense.

3. Planes on approach are closer than the moon.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

40. yes, they are closer than the moon, but take a good look at the

windows on a cockpit... you mean to tell me it is trivial to illuminate a specific window on the plane long enough to damage a pilot's eyes on a plane moving anywhere from 100-300kts?

Targeting is the main obstacle it seems to me. Getting a big enough laser can be done.