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45th Med Donating Member (559 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-17-04 07:00 AM
Original message
Apache killing video becomes viral news
Posted: 14 January 2004 By: Jemima Kiss
Email: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX.co.uk

A graphic US military video showing the killing of three Iraqi people is being circulated via the web after appearing on US TV news channel ABC News.

Apache killing video becomes viral news
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IHOP Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-17-04 07:16 AM
Response to Original message
1. Splash!
Edited on Sat Jan-17-04 07:17 AM by IHOP
Musta been some bad guys. When I think of "people", I think of "people" coming out of houses, not holes in the ground in what looked like a hideaway.
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rooboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-17-04 07:30 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yeeehaw!!!!
No wonder people hate Americans.
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prolesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-17-04 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Hmm...
Couldn't have possibly been driven into a hole because of our invasion of their country. You might crawl in a hole for safety as well if tanks and gunfire filled your neighborhood.

They were in a hole therefore they deserve to die. Based on your logic, I certainly hope you don't own a gun.
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pinkpops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-17-04 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Must have - you mean COULD have
In any case it doesn't appear that they were threatening anybody directly, so you could see how the average Iraqi might think these guys were massacred by cowards way out of the line of fire. And the way the gunners allowed themselves to be used as robots for those up the command chain makes you wonder if they wouldn't do the same thing to you or me without even stopping to consider.
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RBitt Donating Member (76 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-17-04 07:33 AM
Response to Original message
3. wow.
speachless
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-17-04 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
4. Well...
that's what war is about. People get killed.

"Suspected" insurgents popped off like some video game. Seen only by infrared enhancement, so they might as well be space invaders.

In war, you don't have to prove they are insurgents before executing them. If it wasn't war, it would be called murder.

Good ol' war. None of those nasty complications there.





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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-17-04 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
6. a video that reveals war crimes
it is against the geneva convention to kill a wounded opponent. This is really awful. It's little wonder that much of the world hates/fears the US. :-(

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pfitz59 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-18-04 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. Ditto "War Crimes"....
"He's woundeed. Get him." Enough to convict....
http://www.journalism.co.uk/imagesn/apache.mpeg
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-17-04 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
8. Found this observation posted on another board
For what it's worth a reader emailed the following to the Readers' Letters section at www.whatreallyhappened.com/letters/

(11th letter down from the top of todays letters. This might change as the letters section might be updated during the day).

I watched this (edited) "snipit" of tape and read the "explanation" for this atrocity which was given. Although the quality of the image left much to be desired, I believe it is reasonably safe to say that the official story regarding this slaughter from the air is far murkier than the video! Having worked on a farm for two years in my younger days I was able to discern that these people were in the process of TILLING A FIELD or possibly RAKING HAY! If one looks at the right-hand side of the screen as this butchery transpires, one can easily recognize the rows which have already been turned. To the left of the tractor the ground shows no sign of having yet been disturbed. On the rear of the tractor there is either a disc for breaking the soil or perhaps a hay-raking attachment which moves the hay to the right, thus making those HIGHLY VISIBLE ridges which appear on the right-hand side of the screen (there would also be the heat differential in freshly turned hay which would make it stand out if the image is based on infra-red imaging). It is difficult to determine due the lack of photographic quality. In any case, it appears obvious that these people were engaged in an AGRICUTURAL pusuit.

If one watches closely it is plain to see that the person who had just relieved the original tractor driver began to frantically wave some manner of cloth as he mounted the tractor and realized that the man he had just relieved had been blown to pieces as he walked toward the truck which ferried the relief shift (himself) to the field. In spite of this obvious signal to the helicopter crew he is still shredded by cannon fire! As I stated at the outset, I have worked on a farm and know whereof I speak. This "incident", as I am certain it will be called if anyone objects, was nothing short of cold-blooded murder! I can now actually say without ANY reservation that I am truly ASHAMED to be an American as of this day!


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pinkpops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-17-04 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. possible defense
"I had to shoot. He pulled a rake on me"
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IHOP Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-17-04 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. RPG was seen
That was only part of the tape the story is here and there was more tape and monitoring devices with clearer views..

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/WNT/US/apache_video_040109-2.html

Apparently this happened right as hostilities started near Baghdad and the truck was followed there where the pilot viewed a RPG being removed from the truck. I guess this is what happens when you mix agriculture with RPG`s while a war is going on.
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pinkpops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-17-04 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. clarify for me
Was there someone on the ground who saw an RPG, or did they infer this from the same video I saw?
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-17-04 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Tubular object turns into an RPG
Edited on Sat Jan-17-04 10:54 PM by JohnyCanuck
From the ABC news article

The pickup driver looks around, then reaches into his vehicle, takes out a tube-shaped object that appears to be about 4 or 5 feet long, and runs away from the road into a field. He drops the object in the field and heads back to the trucks.

"I got a guy running throwing a weapon," one of the pilots says. Retired Gen. Jack Keane, an ABCNEWS consultant who viewed the tape, said the object looked like a rocket-propelled grenade launcher, "or something larger than a rifle."

The pilots check in with their operational commander, who is monitoring the situation. When they tell him they are sure the man was carrying a weapon, he tells them: "Engage. Smoke him."


http://abcnews.go.com/sections/WNT/US/apache_video_040109-1.html


Notice how at first it's identified just as a tube-shaped object which could be an RPG (or a piece of irrigation pipe for all we know), and it's not like the US military hasn't made mistakes before, e.g. blowing away a Reuters cameraman because his camera supposedly looked like shoulder fired missile equipment.


Note also the terms of the Geneva convention (below). It says that people not taking part in hostilities are not to be harmed. The first person blown away was the tractor driver. Even if the pickup truck driver had been trying to dispose of an RPG, I don't think that gave them the right to blow away the tractor driver without any apparent evidence that the tractor driver himself/herself (some people have remarked the tractor driver looked like a female) was actively involved in fighting or offering resistance.

Also shooting a wounded man not offering resistance is also against the terms of the Genva convention. I realize the US Armed forces are of the opinion the Genva convention does not apply to them so long as they are wasting "evildoers." However the effect of this video will just further alienate Iraqis and the rest of the world and provide evidence that the US hypocritcally talks the talk re. respecting human rights and observing the Geneva convention etc., but it is all just for show and outward appearances.

Last of all we'll get the, "This is war and in war bad things happen" excuse and, "Don't criticize if you haven't been there and been shot at yourself." I say fuck that. That Appache pilot and the rest of the US Army and Marine Corps has no damned right to be Iraq in the first place.

In the case of armed conflict not of an international character occurring in the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties, each party to the conflict shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, the following provisions:

1. Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria.

To this end the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:

(a) Violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;

(b) Taking of hostages;

(c) Outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment;

(d) The passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.


http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm
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