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cal04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-18-09 10:29 PM
Original message
The Torturers’ Manifesto
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/19/opinion/19sun1.html?ref=opinion

To read the four newly released memos on prisoner interrogation written by George W. Bush’s Justice Department is to take a journey into depravity.

Their language is the precise bureaucratese favored by dungeon masters throughout history. They detail how to fashion a collar for slamming a prisoner against a wall, exactly how many days he can be kept without sleep (11), and what, specifically, he should be told before being locked in a box with an insect — all to stop just short of having a jury decide that these acts violate the laws against torture and abusive treatment of prisoners.

In one of the more nauseating passages, Jay Bybee, then an assistant attorney general and now a federal judge, wrote admiringly about a contraption for waterboarding that would lurch a prisoner upright if he stopped breathing while water was poured over his face. He praised the Central Intelligence Agency for having doctors ready to perform an emergency tracheotomy if necessary.

These memos are not an honest attempt to set the legal limits on interrogations, which was the authors’ statutory obligation. They were written to provide legal immunity for acts that are clearly illegal, immoral and a violation of this country’s most basic values.

It sounds like the plot of a mob film, except the lawyers asking how much their clients can get away with are from the C.I.A. and the lawyers coaching them on how to commit the abuses are from the Justice Department. And it all played out with the blessing of the defense secretary, the attorney general, the intelligence director and, most likely, President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney.

(snip)
These memos make it clear that Mr. Bybee is unfit for a job that requires legal judgment and a respect for the Constitution. Congress should impeach him. And if the administration will not conduct a thorough investigation of these issues, then Congress has a constitutional duty to hold the executive branch accountable. If that means putting Donald Rumsfeld and Alberto Gonzales on the stand, even Dick Cheney, we are sure Americans can handle it.


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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-18-09 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. "the precise bureaucratese favored by dungeon masters throughout history"
Edited on Sat Apr-18-09 11:15 PM by pat_k
. . .
After all, as far as Mr. Bush’s lawyers were concerned, it was not really torture unless it involved breaking bones, burning flesh or pulling teeth. That, Mr. Bybee kept noting, was what the Libyan secret police did to one prisoner. . .

After eight years without transparency or accountability, Mr. Obama promised the American people both. His decision to release these memos was another sign of his commitment to transparency. We are waiting to see an equal commitment to accountability.


Sadly, although they talk all around it,* the NY Times editors once again fail to come right out and call for the ONLY lawful, rational, response to the outrages -- Immediate Prosecution.

---------------------------
* . . .an obligation to pursue what is clear evidence of a government policy sanctioning the torture and abuse of prisoners. . .
if the administration will not conduct a thorough investigation of these issues, then Congress has a constitutional duty to hold the executive branch accountable. . .

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Stuart G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-19-09 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. This is so bad, and it makes me so sad to read this.
So, now we understand why no one would talk to Bush at his last event, some kind of European Economic Meeting in December or November..
The European Leaders shunned him for being the asshole liar that he is/was/always will be.

He dragged this country down to this level
.........., and all knew but us.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-19-09 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Stuart, we all knew, that is the sadist part. We choose to ignore or do little.
For example when the first example of abuse was revealed, we the people should have recognized that the revelation might be only the tip of a horrible ice burg and demanded further investigations until we were sure. We choose either by ignoring, rationalizing or too little action to let it go.

WE THE PEOPLE must share the blame here.
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Stuart G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-19-09 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Perhaps you are right...sadly..
We share some of the blame..We couldn't speculate that anyone in the name of the United States might waterboard someone 183 times in a month, but we could speculate that once in a month might be ok.
..That the prison scenes in Iraq, might be ok, ...

..That maybe it isn't so bad, but in reality it was much worse than anyone could even imagine..

Kinda reminds me in history when the first words were leaked about some kind of concentrations camps for Jews in Nazi Germany..

not so bad,....
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-19-09 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. "Only an isolated case of some bad apples". Whew, I feel better.
:sarcasm:
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-19-09 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Actually. . .
. . .the notion that the public turned a blind eye is simply not true. The ability of our so-called "leaders" to resist the public pressure to impeach/prosecute is a not a reflection of our failure, but rather, a testament to the destructive power of beltway group think.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=441643&mesg_id=441736">More. . .
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-19-09 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. The public hammered Members of Congress on impeachment. . .
Edited on Sun Apr-19-09 01:57 PM by pat_k
When asked, staffers reported that the number of calls, faxes, and letters calling for impeachment rivaled, and often exceeded, the number calling for the withdrawal of troops -- and that the calls for impeachment persisted over a longer period of time than any other "issue." The calls for action just kept coming, despite the "leaderships" all out effort to suppress the will to impeach. We were told it was impossible -- "off the table." We were told to leave them alone and go do something "useful."

I beg indulgence for the length of this. I don't mean to single you out, but the widespread notion that the citizenry failed to stand up is simply not true. It is rooted in the false meme that "Americans didn't/don't want impeachment/prosecution.

We never have, and never will, see "everyone" become an activist. It is always a relatively small percent of Americans who actually get angry enough to Do Something -- write letters to editors, challenge their friends and neighbors, call their representatives, or whatever. The truth is that the numbers who have engaged in and supported the effort to bring the torturers to justice may in fact be unprecedented. People across the political spectrum have engaged in this fight -- as it should be when we are fighting for the inviolable principles embodied in our Constitution and law.

Contrary to the claims that "the American people don't want impeachment/prosecution," back in 2006, more than half wanted impeachment to be a priority for the new Congress (http://january6th.org/oct2006-newsweek-poll-impeach.html">Newsweek Poll, 10/21/2006). In the very first month of the 110th Congress, 58% of Americans wanted George W. Bush's presidency over (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2753090">Newsweek Poll, 1/27/2007).

Contrary to claims that the American people would rise up against them if the Democratic "leadership" was "too divisive" -- that we wanted them to work with the fascists to "get things done" -- the truth is that we gave Democrats the majority to oppose and STOP the fascist followers of bushncheneyism (http://january6th.org/reasons-for-success.pdf">Newsweek, 11/6/2006).

Certainly, a disturbingly large number of people in our own ranks echoed the memes and lame excuses for Pelosi's "off the table" edict. Just as a disturbingly large number are rationalizing Obama's dereliction. Being "outside" the beltway doesn't make one an "outsider."

The "insiders" have been engaged in an all out effort to suppress public anger and the will to impeachment/prosecute.

And they have unequivocally failed. The outrage has steadily grown. And over time more and more of the defenders of dereliction have joined the ranks of the outraged demanding action.

The ability of our so-called "leaders" to resist the public pressure is a not a reflection of our failure, but rather, a testament to the destructive power of beltway http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5447507&mesg_id=5448828">group think. It is not insurmountable. But if we are to effectively counter the powerful social/personal/group forces that blind DC insiders, outsiders need to confront them "up close and personal."

We can wake them up to reality

One-way communications from large numbers through faxes, phone calls, or demonstrations are often enough to motivate elected officials to act. But when that fails, more direct lobbying is necessary -- face-to-face, back and forth exchange, where we can directly contradict their irrational rationalizations. Even though the official or staffer manages to "get away," with wrong-headed beliefs intact, the seeds of doubt are planted.

They are human. The disgust reflected in the face of the person confronting them at a public event or town hall meeting; the incredulity in the voice of a caller, reaches "decision makers" and staffers in a way that no letter or fax can. Direct, person-to-person interaction chips away at their confidence in their own rightness. The techniques that need to be employed to lobby for prosecution are the same as http://talkingimpeachment.com">those employed to lobby for impeachment1

We are not starting from Zero. The lobbying effort for impeachment won "recruits" and chipped away at the more insidious memes. The increasingly shrill, "frustrated," and sometimes hysterical responses that the persistent demands have provoked from Pelosi, Conyers, and others speaks volumes. ("First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win" -- Gandhi).

And so we keep pushing them -- if only for our own self-esteem as Americans.

----------------------------------------
1. There's a reason unions, trade groups, and corporations hire lobbyists to build relationships over time. If spontaneous, direct confrontation by angry citizens at meetings and events could be bolstered with a few full-time citizen lobbyists who have the resources to engage, build relationships, follow-up, and publicize the lame excuses offered for inaction, we'd have a powerful force. Ten full time citizen lobbyists could be compensated for their valuable efforts if an eighth of the voters in a Congressional district gave ten bucks to sponsor the effort. Do it in every Congressional district and you have a force worth about 500 million in "professional" lobbyist power.
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