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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 01:07 PM
Original message
Hal Lindsey Defends Torture!
Well, isn't that special!

Friday, April 24, 2009
Tortured Logic


By Hal Lindsey

The so-called torture memos released by the White House were not the only things tortured by what quickly became a crisis. The release tortured logic to a point beyond its endurance. Under that kind of torture, it quickly broke down.

What purpose did releasing the alleged "torture" memos serve? For our country, I mean. It is painfully obvious how it served our enemies. In war, any accurate information the enemy holds is too much information. Logic screams in pain at the arguments advanced by the government – that it intended to project "legal and moral clarity" over the issue of torture.

The most egregious form of torture cited by the memo is the "waterboarding" technique. The memo said that without it, Khalid Sheik Mohammed would never have given up the information that prevented a catastrophic airline attack against Los Angeles.

The U.S. military uses waterboarding against American forces as part of advanced training for certain elite groups. If it isn't torture when it is applied against America's defenders as part of their training, how then can one argue it is "torture" when applied to one of America's enemies as part of national defense?

No matter. It's out. So is "walling." Prisoners are slammed against a specially constructed wall that gives way, preventing injury but making a scary noise. No more of that, either.

The White House argues that by releasing the formerly classified documents, we prove we've got nothing to hide. Well, we've got nothing left to hide, either.

There's a scene in the mini-series "Band of Brothers" where Lt. Speirs explains why he allowed his company to believe he massacred a group of German POWs on D-Day. They thought he was nuts. But he never had problems with discipline.

Obama's release of the torture memos dispels any lingering fear the enemy might have of us, and no doubt some think that is a good thing. And it would be. If we weren't at war.

But since we are at war, logic would seem to suggest that under those circumstances, a little fear might not have been such a bad idea. It seems a better plan than to embolden him.

Obama released the memos saying that it was necessary for America's legal and moral clarity. Legally, it's created a firestorm of controversy.

The day he released them, he hurried over to the CIA to assure them that, even though they were all now complicit in torture, he wouldn't prosecute them for doing their jobs.

Then the next day, he reversed himself. Maybe some people might have to be prosecuted, but only the lawyers. For now.

Only one day after saying the country was interested in looking forward and not backward, the country was buzzing about how long it would take before Obama put Bush on trial for war crimes.

The witch hunt is ongoing in a contextual vacuum. At the time these "enhanced" interrogation techniques took place, America was still reeling from the 9/11 attacks.

The fact that the country is so complacent that Obama feels safe playing politics with Guantanamo, the CIA, the military and the War on Terror without significant public outcry is largely due to the information those enhanced interrogation techniques yielded.

National Intelligence Director Adm. Dennis Blair said of the so-called torture techniques, "High value information came from interrogations in which those methods were used and provided a deeper understanding of the al-Qaida organization that was attacking this country." His comments were made in a memo released to his staff.

"I like to think I would not have approved those methods in the past," he wrote, "but I do not fault those who made the decisions at that time, and I will absolutely defend those who carried out the interrogations within the orders they were given."

Gen. Michael Hayden, former CIA director under President Bush, told Fox News Sunday "the use of these techniques against these terrorists made us safer. It really did work." Former Vice President Dick Cheney expressed similar sentiments.

Were they all lying? The answer to that question is self-evident. How many times have we been attacked since Sept. 11?

Let's summarize the damage done by the torture memos so far. It empowers the enemy with knowledge useful to prosecuting his war against us. It emboldens our critics. It exposes the rest of the U.S. intelligence-gathering apparatus to closer scrutiny. It exposes those who advised the president to prosecution based on the advice they offered.

It paralyzes government advisers and intelligence and military operatives out of fear they may be prosecuted for serving their country. And it exposes the real target, former President Bush, to a potential war crimes trial.

Obama promised that releasing this classified information would benefit the country. In one sense, it does. The very worst thing America did was to scare some terrorists into thinking they were drowning with a technique we use on our own military recruits. Nobody got hurt. Nobody died. Uncounted thousands are alive today because of it.

Maybe we weren't such a bad country, after all. Before The Change came, I mean.

http://bible-prophecy-today.blogspot.com/2009/04/tortured-logic.html
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angstlessk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. I have never read any of his writings..but is that how he writes??? short sentences
and no paragraphs? simpletons I recon (sic..because I WANT it to be spelled this way) read his crap?
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. He's the worst sort of perverted Christian there is
He loves anything that will keep the money rolling in and resents anything taught by Jesus.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
3. Is this the guy from that 70's cop sit-com? n/t
n/t
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flakey_foont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. I thought the same thing
is that Barney Miller?
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. That's HAL LINDEN (and he is a Liberal) - Hal LINDSEY is the "Left Behind" guy
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I thought he was Liberal too- thanks for the clarification! n/t
n/t
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flakey_foont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. I knew all along
just could not resist making an adolescent, stupid remark

Hal Linden was the tosser who wrote THE LATE, GREAT PLANET EARTH
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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. The "Left Behind" series is by Tim LaHaye & Jerry Jenkins.
But Hal Lindsey is a great end-times entrepreneur in his own right, notably the author of The Late, Great Planet Earth. That his predictions prove worthless is beside the point; he laughs all the way to the bank.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. I had forgotten the name of the show- and was too lazy to google it...
Glad to know it aint the same guy.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Nope Barney Miller was played by Hal Linden
Hal Lindsay is an endtimes salesman, author of the Late Great Planet Earth and other fear based religio-propaganda. I've met the man, and he's a creepy dude indeed.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. Hal Lindsey wrote "The Late Great Planet Earth"
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tocqueville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
4. beware Hal Lindsey
Edited on Fri Apr-24-09 01:35 PM by tocqueville


Rosenberg was captured by Allied troops at the end of the war. He was tried at Nuremberg and found guilty of conspiracy to commit crimes against peace; planning, initiating and waging wars of aggression; war crimes; and crimes against humanity. And sentenced to death.

he never killed anybody
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
6. Why cant that idiot get raptured already?
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Seldona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. Just so it happens at night.
The thought of all those naked, flying, christians really freaks me out.
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Stinker Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
14. My letter to Hal
I looked over the rest of the replies to this story and realized I don't really fit in here. I don't have time to rewrite my thoughts as a comment rather than the letter I sent out. It's not the best, but it's sincere. I really believe that the order of the day is to divide and conqure. As long as we let them herd us into opposing groups we'll accept whatever our team is for. In this case, sadly, the Republican's are in favor of torture.

I remember reading your books when I was in Jr. High. I can’t believe you endorse torture of any kind. I’m very disappointed. Your logic, that whatever we put our military through in the context of training can’t be called torture when done to a prisoner is amazing. I guess if soldiers have live ammo rounds shot over their heads during training then that’s not torture if it’s done to a prisoner. I guess we could argue that when water-boarding was done to the victims of the inquisition and the Khmer Rouge they were just enduring harsh questioning.

If the source of our human rights is indeed the Almighty, then the prohibition of cruel or unusual punishments apply to all humans. We live in a country that accepts breaking the arms of non-violent, anti-abortion activists as “pain-compliance.” Our founding fathers knew that we should be more afraid of our own government than the governments of other people. This is plain in all the statements that warn against placing safety over freedom.

Christians ought not take their cues from the right or the left but from God’s Word. Often in the past I’ve found myself supporting actions simply because my team, the Republicans, seemed to be in favor or against something. I’ve even noticed about a decade ago that teachers on the left were anti-phonics mostly because people on the right tended to support teaching reading with phonics. How can a reading method be left or right? Anything can be made acceptable provided we get the clue from pendants that our team is for it. I’ve found that I’m even sympathetic to smoking just because people on the left seem to be behind anti-smoking legislation and commercials. How crazy is that? It is so effective. We as Christians can be co-opted so easily ever since Regan brought us under the umbrella of Republican politics.

As comfortable as I was under the big tent of Reagan, surrounded by those who agree with me on everything, I would rather be under the wing of the Almighty.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. attaboy! what a disgusting letter he has published - this is NOT the reflection of Christ Almighty
that people should think exists in the Christian circles, and he is to be condemned for his callous acceptance of torturing other human beings as being a necessity to keeping terror from occurring after 9/11.

Shame is on him.

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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
16. and ps Hally boy, 9/11 happened after The Change came to Washington in 2001.... you knoW who I mean
don't you Hally boy?

Sheesh... they're delusional and live in another existence.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
18. Hal was one of the first to push the Obama birth certificate conspiracy stories. But
those who hang on Hal's every word will be glad to know that Hal does not think Obama is the anti-Christ -- he just thinks Obama is lot like the anti-Christ
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