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"Hold out for single payer" by Nick Skala, sr. researcher at PNHP

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clear eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 11:35 AM
Original message
"Hold out for single payer" by Nick Skala, sr. researcher at PNHP
Here, first, is my reason for posting this article:
Single-payer advocates have found that some of our friends at DU are quite upset with us for not joining them in fighting for a "public option" which would reliably cover all the uninsured. Some who have done inspiring work in providing the rest of us at DU with excellent information on many issues including on the current state of the debate in Congress on healthcare, and whose opinions have often clarified many other issues for us are saying that we are disrespecting them by not dropping the single payer fight. For myself, at least, I know nothing could be further from the truth, and it's likely that most single payer advocates feel that way as well. Where we differ is that we believe that the fight for a truly viable public option is no easier than the fight for single payer because the health insurance industry sees a workable public option as equal to single payer in the threat it would be to their continued existence, so would fight just as hard, w/ just as much money, just as many promises of high-paying jobs for Congressmembers when they retire, and just as much farflung disinformation. And though we believe it is possible to craft a public option that covers all the uninsured including those dumped off the rolls of private insurers when they become too expensive, we do not think it is possible for that public option not to need huge taxpayer subsidies from people who will also be paying premiums to their private insurers. We don't believe it is possible to create a public option that will stimulate the economy in these difficult times by removing the burdensome cost of healthcare from businesses, large and small. We don't believe it is possible to create a public option that controls costs. We don't believe it is possible to create a worthy public option with costs that wouldn't rapidly wear out its welcome, drain rather than help the economy, and alienate the public from gov't health plans entirely. Our beliefs come from reading the research and conclusions of those who have been researching the issue for years, like the author of the article quoted here.

from remarks presented to the Congressional Progressive Caucus on June 4:
The “public option” preserves all of the systemic defects inherent in reliance on a patchwork of private insurance companies to finance health care, a system which has been a miserable failure both in providing health coverage and controlling costs.

Elimination of U.S.-style private insurance has been a prerequisite to the achievement of universal health care in every other industrialized country in the world. In contrast, public program expansions coupled with mandates have failed everywhere they’ve been tried, both domestically and internationally.


First, because the “public option” is built around the retention of private insurance companies, it is unable - in contrast to single-payer - to recapture the $400 billion in administrative waste that private insurers currently generate in their drive to fight claims, issue denials and screen out the sick. A single-payer system would redirect these huge savings back into the system, requiring no net increase in health spending.

In contrast, the “public option” will require huge new sources of revenue, currently estimated at around $1 trillion over the next decade. Rather than cutting this bloat, the public option adds yet another layer of useless and complicated bureaucracy in the form of an “exchange,” which serves no useful function other than to police and broker private insurance companies.

Second, because the “public option” fails to contain the cost control mechanism inherent in single-payer, such as global budgeting, bulk purchasing and planned capital expenditures, any gains in coverage will quickly be erased as costs skyrocket and government is forced to choose between raising revenue and cutting benefits.

Third, because of this inability to control costs or realize administrative savings, the coverage and benefits that can be offered will be of the same type currently offered by private carriers, which cause millions of insured Americans to go without needed care due to costs and have led to an epidemic of medical bankruptcies.

Virtually all of the reforms being floated...have been tried, and have failed repeatedly. Plans that combined mandates to purchase coverage with Medicaid expansions fell apart in Massachusetts (1988), Oregon (1992), and Washington state (1993); the latest iteration (Massachusetts, 2006) is already stumbling, with uninsurance again rising and costs soaring. Tennessee’s experiment with a massive Medicaid expansion and a public plan option worked - for one year, until rising costs sank it.

The Federal Employee Health Benefit Program (the model for a health insurance exchange) leaves hundreds of thousands of federal workers uninsured, and has proven unable to contain costs....A quarter-century of experience with public/private competition in the Medicare program demonstrates that the private plans will not allow a level playing field. Despite strict regulation, private insurers have successfully cherry-picked healthier seniors, and have exploited regional health spending differences to their advantage. They have progressively undermined the public plan - which started as a single-payer system for seniors and have now become a funding mechanism for HMOs - and a place to dump the unprofitably ill.


When we read careful, thorough and exhaustive research like this, we know that much as we might want to support our fellow DUers, we can't get behind what has failed in the past and can be expected to fail in the future. We feel as the brave nurses and doctors who made themselves vulnerable by engaging in civil disobedience before the Senate, in the current inhospitable atmosphere for such activities, that single-payer healthcare is the only option that will lead reliably to treatment of health care as a right for all in this country.
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
1. Single-Payer or BUST!
We need a strong, viable public option, and screw the AMA if they can't see beyond their bank accounts to support this.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
2. Message received loud and clear.
Only single payer....others shut up.
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clear eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I said no such thing.
Quite the opposite.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. I have been for both.
I am exhausted from the caring and effort.
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clear eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. It is one heck of a struggle.
It's similar to the struggle for women's suffrage or civil rights for African Americans in that it's really important, we don't have really active support from organized labor, and we don't know how long it's going to take. As individuals we can only do what we can, and fortunately we don't have to accomplish the whole thing by ourselves.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I don't like the division single payer advocates are setting up
against public option advocates.

It is totally unnecessary. It is going to hurt us.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. I like that when Obama tried to shut us out that Dean stood up and said. "Let Them In!" Oh that's
right, he didn't.

Why not?

Is Dean afraid of open debate?


Where was he? In his silence, was where he was.

If you think remaining silent when millions of Americans voices are being left outside is the way to bring people together, I assure you, you are wrong.

Blame us for that. It wasn't Dean's fault he was silent. Right?

No seat at the lunch counter for those uppity single payer people.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. That is not true. He has said let them in. So that's how the game is played?
Fine, get your single payer, put those of us who support both out in the cold.

Good for you.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #20
31. Do you have a link? because I like Howard Dean and I would hope that he would call for all to
be involved in the process.

Thanks mad Floidian.

Believe it or not, it would mean a lot to me to know.


I've been following the issue very closely and if I missed it, i would love to apologize.

I know you think we are bad evil people, but we just want a seat at the table.
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Sunnyshine Donating Member (698 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. I don't like the division public option advocates are setting up
against single payer advocates. (Not what I think at all- as the divisions are being played up by other sources.)
So, only single payer people are setting up this division? I think it is being used as a wedge- purposely.


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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. The article is AT the single payer site.
Go ahead. Shut the rest of us out.
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Sunnyshine Donating Member (698 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. It is not shutting anyone out. It speaks to the hurdles we face within our own circles.
Edited on Fri Jun-12-09 11:36 PM by Sunnyshine
Try to understand that it intends to make a point in re: holding out hope for single payer. Reaching out to talk openly about that amongst other advocates, and in turn posting it here as way to get insight into both sides of this discussion. You just make it sound like something devious, when it's not. We agree that we want all Americans covered. We differ on how best to do that. No need to rip.

edit sp
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. me too. Since 1990 I've fought so that single payer could just get a seat at the table. When
Clinton was elected, I thought all right, now we can make our case. When people see the facts, it will be obvious that single payer delivers far more health care and more choice to everyone for much less money.

But Hillery wouldn't give us a seat at the table.

That was my number one reason for supporting Obama, in 2008. I wanted a seat at the table for single payer. Because I knew that if we got a seat at the table it would be obvious to America why single payer would provide more health care and more choice to everyone for much less money.

Deja vu!

And people who should have stood up and said let these people have a seat at the table, let there be an actual policy debate were stone cold dead silent. They thought if they pretended we weren't being shut out of the debate, that if they pretended we didn't exist, that we would go away for a while and then come back and join in the fight for something we had no say in, no investment in, and something we didn't want.

These so called "Democrats" weren't very democratic when it came to inclusion, when it came to debating the issues, when it came to supporting their natural allies opportunity to participate in a national duologue.

I think it makes far more sense that you join us. Single payer actually works, it's not some experimental plan that's never been done before, we know it works great. We would welcome you with open arms. We have the public on our side. Come and work for the good guys, and leave Max Baucus and Rahm Emanuel to stew in their own juices. come work with the people.
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REACTIVATED IN CT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
7. K & R
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
8. K&R!!!! Bon voyage to "The Greatest"
:kick:
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
9. Excellent, thank you knr n/t


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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
11. K-N-R....n/t
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Sunnyshine Donating Member (698 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
14. K&R - Please!
Thanks.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
15. Kicked and recommended for single payer, universal, national public health coverage.
I believe private for profit private "health" insurance allowing corporations to gamble and profit from the American Peoples' illness and injury; to not only be immoral, dysfunctional and inefficient it will spell long term doom for any public option.

I view for profit private "health" insurance corporations in the same light as for profit mercenaries and for profit prisons, the effect can be nothing but corrosive to the public or national good.

Thanks for the thread, clear eye.
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bkkyosemite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
16. Single Payer Now!!!
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
17. SPHC advocates see it as the best system not only because
it provides coverage to all, but also because it is the most cost efficient system.



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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
18. K&R
:kick:
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
19. Single payer is so wise and yet without the support of Obama and Kennedy
I fail to see how it can succeed. Why the dems cannot see what is so obvious has to be based on corporate campaign cash and corporate influence. THE LIES ABOUT OTHER COUNTRIES' PLANS ARE PURE PROPAGANDA, yet no one disclaims them. The insurance/pharma companies spend billions to keep their officious act alive to the detriment of their country and its people, and meanwhile our elected officials play along for more money next election cycle (or either because they are too obtruse to deserve re-election.)
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Sunnyshine Donating Member (698 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #19
29. So damn hard to watch it happen and know that it is being obstructed purposely.
American's absorb daily doses of propaganda and rhetoric. I feel your frustration at keeping in check- those hands and fists of greed.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
22. I want to thank all of you for making people like Dean the enemy.
That is exactly what has been done.

I have followed every word on this.

I have been attacked viciously.

I have supported both.

But it is your way or the highway apparently.

I and others who would prefer single payer but would accept the public option are shunned now.

It's a shame.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. We have normally agreed in the past , but I disagree strongly with
your recent statements that SPHC advocates are making Dean the enemy.

That includes your posting in the PV forum where your edited title says...

"Single payer groups accuse Dean of having them arrested in Portland"


There may be disagreements between a public option and SPHC and they can and should be discussed, trying to portray people as an enemy of Dean is just wrong.

:(










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Sunnyshine Donating Member (698 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. Actually, no your not shunned. I welcome your reasoned input.
We are not ready to give up on the fight for Single Payer. That is not my way or highway talk. Perception is key here.

It says, lets stick together on the absolute best possible outcome. You and others (myself included) would take the expanded public option - but it is not something we are willing to accept just yet. Put a little faith in us people, and keep taking part in this movement.

We are not making enemies out of anyone. Your accusations are inflammatory, over the top, and unfounded. Your opinion of what has "exactly" been done is not exact. DFA gets contributions from me and I have met Dr. Dean a few times. He has his own way of trying.

The shame is that this OP has served no purpose for you, but as an opportunity to paint us as bad people that are ruinous and vicious.
Disparaging words are used for no good reason at all. I would say that to anyone who is needlessly attacking you or me or others.


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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. What I said is quite true.
You must not have been keeping up with blog posts on the subject, or you would not say that.

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Sunnyshine Donating Member (698 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 02:40 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. Yes that maybe, but outside of des tubes- millions of citizens are teamed up and working hard.
Passions are zooming and respectful exchanges can be far and few in between here, on many days. Sorry that some on all sides of issues cause more harm than good. Please know that so many more kind and loving people are advocating with maturity and wisdom instead. They are working honestly and diligently to change things for the better. We're currently crunching # to send to House & Sen.
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NorthCarolina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
24. 1 Trillion for banks..NO PROBLEM...1 Trillion for Health Care for all
:wtf:
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. True, but SPHC will NOT cost a Trillion :) nt
Edited on Fri Jun-12-09 10:56 PM by slipslidingaway
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
27. Testimony of Walter Tsou, M.D., M.P.H. »
Full text
http://edlabor.house.gov/documents/111/pdf/testimony/20090610WalterTsouTestimony.pdf

Additional statements and videos of the Congressional hearing.
http://edlabor.house.gov/hearings/2009/06/examining-the-single-payer-hea.shtml


"...If you believe that every American has the right to quality, affordable health care,
then the only affordable means to achieve that goal is through a properly
financed, single-payer, national health insurance program.

Attempting to reconcile the dual imperatives of universal coverage and cost
control through alternative methods besides single payer is an exercise in futility.

It is clear that cost controls mean that someone's ox gets gored, either the
taxpayers, physicians and hospitals, or the private health insurance industry.
When some Congressional leaders declare that “single payer is off the table”,
they are, in effect, saying that insurers will be protected, leaving the pain to
patients, taxpayers, and health care providers.


Let's examine each of these categories:

For the taxpayers, it is difficult to understand why we must endure an additional
$1.5 trillion or more1 over the next decade in expenses at a time when our nation
already spends 50% more per capita on health care than any other country in the
world?

For physicians and hospitals, simply cutting reimbursements is
counterproductive, especially at a time when we need to increase
reimbursements for primary care and mental health services.

For the private insurance industry, they have dominated health care for the past
fifty years, but it does not work. Despite a supposedly competitive marketplace,
health care costs have skyrocketed, nearly 50 million are currently uninsured,
and the quality of care for most Americans is “suboptimal”2. Choice is a total
misnomer. Americans want to be able to choose their doctor and hospital, not
their health plans.


A humane health care system should reinforce the safety net in the face of our
nation’s worst recession since the Great Depression, but our profit-driven system
kicks millions of Americans in the gut and leaves them both jobless and
uninsured. We have saddled our nation with an inefficient and exhorbitantly
expensive health care system that drives jobs overseas where health benefit
costs are low, and discourages entrepreneurs from striking out on their own for
fear of losing their insurance coverage..."



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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
33. The bigger question
What kind of a society are we that lets our elected representatives authorize a trillion dollars for weapons (many that are useless) to kill and maim, and yet the same representatives say they don't have the votes to pass a health care program that serves all the people?
The only thing they understand is bribes from the insurance and pharmaceutical lobbies.
Let your Congressmen and Senators know you're aware they're taking bribe money to pass legislation that puts profits over people. Send letters to the editors of every publication possible. This bribery shit has to stop now.
Max Baucus needs a good kick in the ass as does any senator or representative who neglects the will of those who voted for change.
And if the Republicans throw a tantrum, as is their usual response, they must be told to eat shit and bark at the moon.
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